Is this the end of Thailand as a Retirement Destination

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I guess you are exposed to a different group of white people than I am! Many of the ones I see these days are grouchy, bitter, stingy, and self absorbed. LOL. 

The only white person I ever encounter is Italian, he seems always happy, but I can never be certain as he only speaks Italian, and I don't. No other white people live near me.

[Jeffr2]

18 hours ago, blackprince said:

As I've said before, even the cheapest prices for all inclusive holidays here are beyond the real Russian working class. You'd need to have some experience of living and working in Russia rather than passing through as a tourist to understand the Russian class "system".

 

As for some Russians saying other Russians are low-class, I'm sure you know that people are motivated by all sorts of snobbery. We see it on this forum in one form or another every day.

 

By the way. I'm assuming you were speaking to your Russians in English. If so that would demonstrate the validity of the other half of what I said about most Russians here being better educated than most westerners, which you have conveniently ignored. On the other hand, if you were conversing in fluent Russian then I take my hat off to you - you would be a rare westerner indeed, most of whom speak little Thai after decades of immersion and read zero, let alone speak and read Russian!

 

 

You obviously don't know what your talking about.  Please, give it a rest and let's get back to the OP.

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Refering to low class Russians one should have a look at western tourists. The hords of tattooed Brits and half naked flipflop Germans for example

This can be said of most nations where travel is happening.  Mass tourism has ruined many beautiful places around the world, not just Thailand.

[zzaa09]

17 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

This can be said of most nations where travel is happening.  Mass tourism has ruined many beautiful places around the world, not just Thailand.

Mass Euro-tourism to be precise.

Destructive forces come quite instinctive to them by every facet, and yet are blind to the reality. 

[Jeffr2]

4 minutes ago, zzaa09 said:

Mass Euro-tourism to be precise.

Destructive forces come quite instinctive to them by every facet, and yet are blind to the reality. 

Not everywhere, but mass Chinese tourism before covid was insane.  The main hot spots in Europe, especially Itlay, are jam packed with them.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The only white person I ever encounter is Italian, he seems always happy, but I can never be certain as he only speaks Italian, and I don't. No other white people live near me.

I suspect you enjoy that. I certainly enjoyed being the only farang in the village.

[Rimmer]

Some off topic baiting and bickering posts also quoted replies have been removed please stay on topic:

 

Is this the end of Thailand as a Retirement Destination

[Saanim]

I feel sorry for the ones who are here suffering in their retirement, be it corruptive govt, bureaucracy,  non-doctor health minister with his bad vaccines, mad drivers, road potholes, dropping wires, expensive beer, high insurance cost, dirty low-class tourists, noise at 5:30 and/or throughout 24/7, to name just a few.

 

That's not what they had come here for...

 

At least they have been rewarded by a trustful wife...

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, Saanim said:

I feel sorry for the ones who are here suffering in their retirement, be it corruptive govt, bureaucracy,  non-doctor health minister with his bad vaccines, mad drivers, road potholes, dropping wires, expensive beer, high insurance cost, dirty low-class tourists, noise at 5:30 and/or throughout 24/7, to name just a few.

That's not what they had come here for...

At least they have been rewarded by a trustful wife...

At least I don't have to endure Somali, Syrian, and Afghan refugees!

 

Back to the OP.

It's not the end of Thailand as a retirement destination for those of us already here.

It probably is the end of Thailand as a retirement destination for new retirees.

 

At least until all the COVID restrictions have gone away.

Edited November 15, 2021 by BritManToo

[atpeace]

On 11/14/2021 at 10:10 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Every country can dictate who is allowed ( or should be allowed ) to enter. Simple enough to tell every airline with landing rights to ensure travelers to the country to have insurance. They already do that with departure tax. That way the airline bears the cost of enforcement ( passed on to the customer of course ).

Should a country not do so, IMO they only have themselves to blame for any non payment of hospital costs.

So before traveling you would have to change your policy depending on the country?  My coverage is great but doesn't meet what is required by Thailand.  It is a much better policy IMO.  If I then get a worse policy that meets Thailand's requirements and decide to travel to another country that requires more coverage, what then?  

 

  I get your point - people should have coverage while travelling and would not really care if it was easy to implement.  As for every country can dictate who enters.  What is your point? Not trying to be confrontational but weak argument.  They can dictate whatever they want but not sure why this is relevant in this discussion.  Every discussion about laws would end with they can do whatever - up to them.  It is not what they can do but what should they do.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, atpeace said:

So before traveling you would have to change your policy depending on the country?  My coverage is great but doesn't meet what is required by Thailand.  It is a much better policy IMO.  If I then get a worse policy that meets Thailand's requirements and decide to travel to another country that requires more coverage, what then?  

 

  I get your point - people should have coverage while travelling and would not really care if it was easy to implement.  As for every country can dictate who enters.  What is your point? Not trying to be confrontational but weak argument.  They can dictate whatever they want but not sure why this is relevant in this discussion.  Every discussion about laws would end with they can do whatever - up to them.  It is not what they can do but what should they do.

The relevance is that they can introduce laws that would make it difficult for many not wealthy expats to stay, including insurance. I thought that was obvious, but apparently I was wrong.

 

One could look at which countries one is going to travel to and obtain an insurance policy that fits the maximum requirements. Is that hard to do?

 

Should do is not something politicians understand, IMO, unless it involves spending lots of other people's money.

[blackprince]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The relevance is that they can introduce laws that would make it difficult for many not wealthy expats to stay, including insurance. I thought that was obvious, but apparently I was wrong.

 

What you're saying is reasonable.

I'd add that if someone can't afford the insurance, they're unlikely to be able to afford a serious stay in hospital here either. And many would have the lost the entitlement to "free" medical care back home because they've been away too long.

 

On a broader note and back to the OP istelf - travelling during a pandemic is bound to incur more risk and more cost. And while Thailand's new temporary system  is  not perfect, it's not unreasonable either imho - compare it to the UK's covid travel rules that I quoted a day or two ago: people lying on the form are liable to up to 10 years in prison!

[atpeace]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The relevance is that they can introduce laws that would make it difficult for many not wealthy expats to stay, including insurance. I thought that was obvious, but apparently I was wrong.

 

One could look at which countries one is going to travel to and obtain an insurance policy that fits the maximum requirements. Is that hard to do?

 

Should do is not something politicians understand, IMO, unless it involves spending lots of other people's money.

Extremely hard IMO. I now have a policy I've paid for before the new policy requirements.  Now what?

 

As for they can introduce laws... Why are we discussing anything?  The answer to any argument can be they can do whatever they want.  Thailand can introduce any law which has little relevance to the justification of any specific law.  

 

See how I did that without insulting your intelligence. No, "I thought it was obvious" or "Is that too hard"?   I have no interest at making you look foolish and just chatting while I eat my lunch.  Completely open to being 100% wrong on requiring insurance and good chance I am.  I'll get over it.

[atpeace]

1 hour ago, blackprince said:

What you're saying is reasonable.

I'd add that if someone can't afford the insurance, they're unlikely to be able to afford a serious stay in hospital here either. And many would have the lost the entitlement to "free" medical care back home because they've been away too long.

 

On a broader note and back to the OP istelf - travelling during a pandemic is bound to incur more risk and more cost. And while Thailand's new temporary system  is  not perfect, it's not unreasonable either imho - compare it to the UK's covid travel rules that I quoted a day or two ago: people lying on the form are liable to up to 10 years in prison!

I just read England's travel requirements. Am I missing something.  Simple rules and instructions. No insurance and easy to implement rules. Wish Thailand would use this  word for word. 

[blackprince]

5 minutes ago, atpeace said:

I just read England's travel requirements. Am I missing something.  Simple rules and instructions. No insurance and easy to implement rules. Wish Thailand would use this  word for word. 

This is the post I made yesterday about this including the link.

"

Not really sure what the fuss is about on this. Travel during a pandemic is bound to incur greater costs and risks. Here's the situation for foreign travellers to the UK for example from the BBC (a few months old now).

"Travellers having to stay in quarantine hotels in England will be charged £1,750 for their stay, Health Secretary Matt Hancock has announced.

The measures, which come into force on Monday, apply to UK and Irish residents returning from 33 red list countries.

Those who fail to quarantine in a government-sanctioned hotel for 10 days face fines of up to £10,000.

....

Travellers arriving into England who lie on their passenger locator forms about visiting a red list country face a fine of £10,000 or up to 10 years in jail."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55995645"

 

I haven't kept up to date with changing requirements in the UK as I have no plans to travel there, but this sounds pretty draconian to me "Travellers arriving into England who lie on their passenger locator forms about visiting a red list country face a fine of £10,000 or up to 10 years in jail."

 

I'm not sure where you read about England's (the UK's?)  covid travel requirements for foreigners. Feel free to post a link if you have one.

[blackprince]

39 minutes ago, atpeace said:

I just read England's travel requirements. Am I missing something.  Simple rules and instructions. No insurance and easy to implement rules. Wish Thailand would use this  word for word. 

Here's what the NHS website says

"If you're visiting England from a non-EEA country, even if you're a former UK resident, you'll be charged for NHS secondary care at 150% of the standard NHS rate, unless an exemption from the charge category applies to either you or the treatment.

You should make sure you're covered for healthcare through personal medical or travel insurance for the duration of your visit.

You'll need to pay the full estimated cost in advance if the treatment you need is non-urgent, otherwise the treatment will not be provided.

If you're a non-EEA national and you fail to pay for NHS treatment when a charge applies, any future immigration application you make may be denied.

Some NHS services or treatments are exempt from charges so that they're free to all (although prescription, dentistry and other charges may still apply)."

 

 

[Kwasaki]

44 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Some NHS services or treatments are exempt from charges so that they're free to all (although prescription, dentistry and other charges may still apply)."

Yeah if you make it from Thailand to Heathrow once your checked out through customs and in the arrival area you just collapse on on the floor and you are taken to emergencey.

That's how it's done. 

[blackprince]

14 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Yeah if you make it from Thailand to Heathrow once your checked out through customs and in the arrival area you just collapse on on the floor and you are taken to emergencey.

That's how it's done. 

Quite probably! I've also read credible reports of so-called quarantine hotel conditions in the UK that defy belief.

[blackprince]

34 minutes ago, blackprince said:

Quite probably! I've also read credible reports of so-called quarantine hotel conditions in the UK that defy belief.

For the avoidance of confusion I mean terrible, not wonderful!

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, blackprince said:

Quite probably! I've also read credible reports of so-called quarantine hotel conditions in the UK that defy belief.

I'm talking of such pre-covid and maybe when things get back to normal.

 

Myself I just use my local govt hospital and if diagnosed terminal whatever I will go back home to where my home is Thailand.

[atpeace]

6 hours ago, blackprince said:

Here's what the NHS website says

"If you're visiting England from a non-EEA country, even if you're a former UK resident, you'll be charged for NHS secondary care at 150% of the standard NHS rate, unless an exemption from the charge category applies to either you or the treatment.

You should make sure you're covered for healthcare through personal medical or travel insurance for the duration of your visit.

You'll need to pay the full estimated cost in advance if the treatment you need is non-urgent, otherwise the treatment will not be provided.

If you're a non-EEA national and you fail to pay for NHS treatment when a charge applies, any future immigration application you make may be denied.

Some NHS services or treatments are exempt from charges so that they're free to all (although prescription, dentistry and other charges may still apply)."

 

 

That is what I thought.  Insurance is not required.  Simple form and easy instructions.  They recommend being fully covered by whatever means you decide are reasonable.

[it is what it is]

On 11/10/2021 at 5:09 AM, The Hammer2021 said:

Plenty of retirees are not 'wealthy' whatever that means. Artists, musicians, creative, bohemians and other non materialist people can live off modest incomes on simple life styles and did so here happily a long time before crooks stole the goverment and steered the country into a mire of corruption and poverty. The only financial requirements should be based on a Thai minimal income and a system of medical insurance worked out.

 

thai minimal income is extremely low, do you really think many foreigners want to exist - i wont say live -  with the standard of living comparable to the average thai?

[Nickelbeer]

Thailand has gasped its last. Long overdue. They have been aiming their guns at the very people who contribute a considerable sum of money to the country each year. The Philippines and Cambodia understand good public relations. Thailand understands racism, jealousy and a huge xenophobic chip on the shoulder, Open door policy for millionaires and a 100 thousand baht income requirement will not produce the results they think it will.

[YITB1980]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:15 PM, BritManToo said:

 

It's not the end of Thailand as a retirement destination for those of us already here.

It probably is the end of Thailand as a retirement destination for new retirees.

 

At least until all the COVID restrictions have gone away.

Yes, the last time they bumped up the required bank balance (or monthly income) requirement, they grandfathered in existing visa holders at the time.  Getting myself established here right before COVID was, perhaps, good timing.

[BritManToo]

On 11/15/2021 at 9:58 PM, it is what it is said:

 

thai minimal income is extremely low, do you really think many foreigners want to exist - i wont say live -  with the standard of living comparable to the average thai?

The average Thai has an income below 5kbht/month, I doubt many foreign pensioners go that low.

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

The average Thai has an income below 5kbht/month, I doubt many foreign pensioners go that low.

Can I apply for a help me to continue to buy my beer I want every month. ????

[zzaa09]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

Can I apply for a help me to continue to buy my beer I want every month. ????

More than likely Lau Khao or Ya Dong...

[fredscats]

On 11/15/2021 at 10:18 PM, Nickelbeer said:

Thailand has gasped its last. Long overdue. They have been aiming their guns at the very people who contribute a considerable sum of money to the country each year. The Philippines and Cambodia understand good public relations. Thailand understands racism, jealousy and a huge xenophobic chip on the shoulder, Open door policy for millionaires and a 100 thousand baht income requirement will not produce the results they think it will.

Good comment....Thailand is in for another covid wave in few months time , will make it deader than dead , looking at all the high rise buildings being built,  now all but stalled ,Asias largest shopping mall  BKK,(throw in a few current workers)  finished, no end in sight to the disaster trail...but still farang under the cosh

[newnative]

50 minutes ago, fredscats said:

Good comment....Thailand is in for another covid wave in few months time , will make it deader than dead , looking at all the high rise buildings being built,  now all but stalled ,Asias largest shopping mall  BKK,(throw in a few current workers)  finished, no end in sight to the disaster trail...but still farang under the cosh

     Which highrises under construction are 'stalled' in Pattaya?  The Edge highrise is just about finished.  Work continues on the new hotel down the street from it.  Work also continues on Grande Centre Point 2 and the new highrise hotel going up across the street from it by Dolphin Circle.

     Construction on Once Condo is not stalled.  Neither is it stalled on the two Riviera highrise projects and Copacabana in Jomtien.  I haven't driven by yet but a billboard tells me that construction has started on the Arom highrise condo in Wong Amat--with covid raging for nearly two years this project could have been postponed or cancelled.  Discovery Beach Hotel just finished it's highrise third building.  Several highrise condos on 3rd Road I can't remember the names of are nearing completion, not stalled.  

     There may be a project here and there that is stalled--I can think of a way too-big, way too  underfunded  project in a bad location where work was started and stopped off and on years before covid--but I believe the majority of the highrises under construction in Pattaya are still going forward.

      I don't see any highrises stalled in the area of Bangkok where I live part-time either--an office building just finished construction next door and several highrise condos under construction in the area continue.  Again, there may be some stalled projects but I think the majority continue there, as well.  Some Bangkok builders have shifted some of their future projects to smaller, lowrise condo projects and house projects.

[fredscats]

10 minutes ago, newnative said:

     Which highrises under construction are 'stalled' in Pattaya?  The Edge highrise is just about finished.  Work continues on the new hotel down the street from it.  Work also continues on Grande Centre Point 2 and the new highrise hotel going up across the street from it by Dolphin Circle.

     Construction on Once Condo is not stalled.  Neither is it stalled on the two Riviera highrise projects and Copacabana in Jomtien.  I haven't driven by yet but a billboard tells me that construction has started on the Arom highrise condo in Wong Amat--with covid raging for nearly two years this project could have been postponed or cancelled.  Discovery Beach Hotel just finished it's highrise third building.  Several highrise condos on 3rd Road I can't remember the names of are nearing completion, not stalled.  

     There may be a project here and there that is stalled--I can think of a way too-big, way too  underfunded  project in a bad location where work was started and stopped off and on years before covid--but I believe the majority of the highrises under construction in Pattaya are still going forward.

      I don't see any highrises stalled in the area of Bangkok where I live part-time either--an office building just finished construction next door and several highrise condos under construction in the area continue.  Again, there may be some stalled projects but I think the majority continue there, as well.  Some Bangkok builders have shifted some of their future projects to smaller, lowrise condo projects and house projects.

Rose coloured glasses and all that....the recently finished  (is it Arbour) big place,  Third Rd Pattaya,bird cage on top,regulary go past,  3 lights on.   These projects had money earmarked before covid,so spending loaned money .    Its more than a car crash ,a plane crash, the 707 plane site , 3rd rd,stalled you stated earlier, has taken definate nose dive          Nobody is coming,not in the droves u imagine to fill any of it...........take a trip around north Jomtien

Edited November 23, 2021 by fredscats