Does Thailand genuinely welcome Farang?

[Cupcake936]

I have lived in Thailand for 15 years and I just endured the most degrading and humiliating Visa Renewal!!  First of all they refused to accept my Health Insurance even though it was one of the approved Companies. When I contacted the health Insurance Company they said bloody hell doesn't anybody in Immigration know how to add up or multiply, your Policy is worth more than 800,000 why are they saying it doesn't meet the requirements. Anyway the Company sent me a new Certificate of Insurance clearly stating it provided in excess of the 40,000 Outpatient and 400,000 Inpatient, which after returning from their 1 hour Lunch break the Immigration Officer accepted. I add at this point that I have been using the same Immigration Office for 15 years for renewals and 90 day Reporting and I know nearly all the Officers who work there. My address in Thailand has remained the same for all of those 15 years. Having ticked all the boxes regarding my Financial status and my Health Insurance the Immigration Officer asked me to draw a map from the Immigration Office to my home. Just to make sure they were certain that I knew exactly where I lived I named every village and suburb between the Office and my home and showed every 7/11, market and Supermarket on the map. I really believe they don't want us here anymore and wonder how long before they realise how much we contribute to the Thai Economy. Because next year the Health Insurance requirement goes up from 400,000 to 3 million baht I was already considering leaving Thailand but after the ordeal they put me through to renew my Visa last week then that is becoming even more of a certainty

[barry553]

Maybe your time here is up. Once the rose tinted glasses come off you realize why so many Thais want to get out of the place.

[finnsk]

They only love our wallets.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

6 minutes ago, Cupcake936 said:

Just to make sure they were certain that I knew exactly where I lived I named every village and suburb between the Office and my home and showed every 7/11, market and Supermarket on the map

It seems you (also) want to play some kind of game with them. Did you want to p$@# them off? Or why did you do that? And do you think such behavior will help you in the future of not?

Obviously I don't know you but it seems there are many people who live here among Thais without any problems. And there are some people who seem to attract problems. What do you think why that might happen?

[new2here]

Do they welcome farang?

 

Yes, i think they do.

 

While i get that the latest IM visit didn’t go as expected, that, to me, isn’t a fair nor accurate measurement nor representation of how “welcoming” Thailand is.. or isn’t.

 

i say they are - only because they do offer a fairly broad range of visa classes that do legitimately cover a decent percentage of that situations a non-citizen may be.

 

As is with almost every country, Thailand does have its own nationally imposed internal selection criteria … those that they’d prefer… and …. those that they don’t… that, to me, isn’t all that unique to thailand… lots of countries do this by virtue of visa costs, eligibility requirements etc.

 

Yes, thailand could do more to make the process of coming to and remaining legally in thailand easier… very true… and that same could be said for many other countries as well.

 

in all, i can’t say that thailand is (IMHO) overtly UNwelcoming to non-citizens per se, but you will always find individuals who don’t perhaps showcase the most foreigner-friendly demeanor toward them, however that’s vastly different than a direct or even implied national policy of unwelcome them.

Edited November 21, 2021 by new2here

[JustAnotherHun]

Would be interesting to know Which Immigration that was.

And just one word to "how much we [retirees] contribute to the Thai economy":

You must be kidding if you really believe, a few retiree's Baht would have any measurable impact to the country's economy.

[wprime]

I always wonder about these stories. I've spent about 10 years total time in Thailand (not consecutively) and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've felt unwelcome. Thailand is one of the warmest, most welcoming places in the world.

 

[connda]

We are but a Baht Sign ฿฿฿ preferably with a one (1), a whole bunch of trailing zeros (0) and delineated with four, five or more commas.  Individual Thais may welcome you here.  My wife did - I changed her life.  But the government?  No. 
I fully expect that there will come a time when we are economically pushed out, then you can go back to your own country (USA) and live in a solidly Thai economic and social enclave (like North Hollywood) and watch your own government extend jobs, social benefits, residency, and citizenship to the sons, daughters, and families of the exact Thai officials who quite literally hate us and consider us nothing but foreign cash inflows to harvest until the geese laying the golden eggs are exterminated. If that means ruining your Thai family's life - that's of no consequence if you are a foreign man married to a Thai woman. These same people hate the Thai poor and those of lower status, especially low-caste Thai women.  Unless of course you are a Thai man married to a foreign woman.  Then all is flowers, sunshine, and familial harmony and the foreign Mrs is extended Thai citizenship 3 years after marriage (1 year if she had a Thai child), and then the foreign Mrs is extended jobs, social benefits, residency, and citizenship as the family of a Thai male is sacrosanct.  And unlike the families of a Thai woman married to a foreign man, the government isn't bent on destroying that particular family unit (Thai Man/Foreign Woman).  If you haven't noticed, these people are sexist too.
Retiree?  You're not really welcome unless you're wealthy.
Foreign man married to a Thai woman?  You're tolerated until you are not.
Thai man married to a Foreign woman?  That's a true Thai family and a family to be protected. 

Edited November 21, 2021 by connda

[Liverpool Lou]

2 minutes ago, wprime said:

I always wonder about these stories. I've spent about 10 years total time in Thailand (not consecutively) and I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've felt unwelcome. Thailand is one of the warmest, most welcoming places in the world.

 

Well said.

[zugzug123]

Maybe it depends on your attitude? I know some friends have the "western mentality" here and they get in all sorts of problems. Just be humble and don't have an attitude, especially when dealing with immigration, and you should be okay. Thailand is indeed the friendliest and most welcoming place I have experienced.

[BritManToo]

Thai women have certainly been more welcoming to me than Brit women.

Does anyone else really matter?

 

Immigration, I don't even talk to them, I take along one of the welcoming Thai women, and the immigration officers ignore me as if I wasn't there, the only part I play is handing over the money.

Edited November 21, 2021 by BritManToo

[Liverpool Lou]

"Does Thailand genuinely welcome Farang?"

 

Yes.

[Liverpool Lou]

33 minutes ago, Cupcake936 said:

the Immigration Officer asked me to draw a map from the Immigration Office to my home. Just to make sure they were certain that I knew exactly where I lived I named every village and suburb between the Office and my home and showed every 7/11, market and Supermarket on the map.

"the Immigration Officer asked me to draw a map from the Immigration Office to my home".

Not unusual and not a big deal to comply with.

 

"Just to make sure they were certain that I knew exactly where I lived I named every village and suburb between the Office and my home and showed every 7/11, market and Supermarket on the map".

You think that your childish mocking of Immigration's requirements was clever or that they found it amusing?

[473geo]

It's 

12 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Would be interesting to know Which Immigration that was.

And just one word to "how much we [retirees] contribute to the Thai economy":

You must be kidding if you really believe, a few retiree's Baht would have any measurable impact to the country's economy.

'How much we contribute'

 

Yep like some feel they are doing Thailand a big service by just being here 

 

I guess that may well come across in their 'attitude' no surprise if they get a less than welcoming 'attitude' in return then 

Thai people I deal with always eager to assist 

Just lucky I guess ????

 

 

 

[sherwood]

To the OP, you could have saved the problems by an offer take a few of them to lunch. 

Hard times and all.

 

 

[blackprince]

34 minutes ago, Cupcake936 said:

I have been using the same Immigration Office for 15 years for renewals and 90 day Reporting and I know nearly all the Officers who work there.

That's very surprising because it's Thai government policy to rotate government workers every few years: public prosecutors, judges, teachers, MoE staff, MoT staff, administrative staff of all kinds, medical staff, and certainly the officers who work in my local immigration office too. It's also frequent in the private sector, notably banks.

 

I'm not saying that all government workers get rotated every 2 or 3 years, but I know  many that have been, and I know for a fact it's policy.

 

In the UK the Prime Minister and the Minister for Home Affairs have explicitly instructed immigration officers to create a "hostile environment" for would be immigrants. Thank goodness Thailand is so welcoming by comparison.

 

But it's true that many people who wear uniforms seem to get off on the power it confers. Chin up my friend.

 

[mokwit]

No. NEXT!

[bkk6060]

Just play the game be polite smile and laugh don't let them get to you.

 

[JustAnotherHun]

How dare those morons. Farang retirees are God's gift to Thailand ????

[connda]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Thai women have certainly been more welcoming to me than Brit women.

Does anyone else really matter?

 

Immigration, I don't even talk to them, I take along one of the welcoming Thai women, and the immigration officers ignore me as if I wasn't there, the only part I play is handing over the money.

I hand my wife the paperwork and stay quiet.  Sign a stack of papers until my hand curls into a cramped ball of flesh, and then dig out ฿1900 out of my wallet with my teeth.

However, I'm well aware that the Sword of Damocles sway gently over my head suspended by a single thread on which is embossed: "Thai Immigration".  It will continue to sway over my head until the day it doesn't.  As it does sway back and forth, it will probably hit my wife.  I can't take the house, cars, or other capital that is not liquid.  She'd get it all.  But the money (we do have a prenup) goes with me as I'd have to - once again - rebuild my life from scratch. I wouldn't be supporting a Thai wife whose government is responsible for the breakup and destruction of my family.  "Take your wife with you."  She's Thai - she doesn't want to leave.  I built her a little slice of middle-class heaven, that's where she want's to die.  For that matter, so do I, but I do have a "Plan B" and I'm well aware that the single fiber holding that heavy sword over my head may well break before my life runs out. 
Thailand - No Country For Old Men.  But there are others out their that welcome us.

[metisdead]

Moved to the Thai Visas forum. 

[sqwakvfr]

I learned a simple lesson when I arrived 5 years ago:  If I spend then I am tolerated.  If I go to where locals shop for cheap items then I got some “dirty” looks.  Now I shop, eat out, go to the gym/pool, cinema, immigration, hospital, dentists and before the pandemic lots of international trips.  In essence to keep the peace I live in my space and only go into the locals space when I have to.  I can’t ever recall feeling a sense of being genuinely welcomed. LOS=It could be rebranded as LOPS-P for Phony? 

[HAPPYNUFF]

Loy Krathong, or whatever its spelt.   Went with my wife for her to place    one of those little floating    things on the  local damn.    The step down to the water   was full of people  just standing there, ooing and ahing their little offerings.   We waited, and we waited, and we waited.  It became obvious they had no intention of moving and letting  the buildup of people behind them    take their turn.   I asked my wife what was their problem.  She    told me  they were government workers, implying that made them  very important  and special.  I  asked her to ask them  to move off the  platform and let other people  through, as my Thai  is limited. She was terrified at the thought.   I went down amongst  them, and by sign language and gentle pushes indicated their time was up and they should move.  They did, with much indignation, but I could see   the other "common" people gathered there were pleased and happy to see them go.  It appears it not just us farangs that  get the dirty end of the stick, anyone  in any position of so called "authority " here  treats  those they deem beneath them with contempt.  Its not just about the money they imagine we  roll in.

[gearbox]

58 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

Would be interesting to know Which Immigration that was.

And just one word to "how much we [retirees] contribute to the Thai economy":

You must be kidding if you really believe, a few retiree's Baht would have any measurable impact to the country's economy.

The most farangs do is exchange of money for goods and services. Forget about this contribution rubbish. When I buy groceries in Australia do I need to wai the supermarket workers because they are "contributing" something, providing food to keep me alive? Nope, we have a deal, money in exchange for food. In fact some here are getting really good deals, like wifes younger than their daughters,  try to price this in the home countries.

 

There are some real volunteers contributing selflessly, but they are few and far between.

[sherwood]

42 minutes ago, HAPPYNUFF said:

Loy Krathong, or whatever its spelt.   Went with my wife for her to place    one of those little floating    things on the  local damn.    The step down to the water   was full of people  just standing there, ooing and ahing their little offerings.   We waited, and we waited, and we waited.  It became obvious they had no intention of moving and letting  the buildup of people behind them    take their turn.   I asked my wife what was their problem.  She    told me  they were government workers, implying that made them  very important  and special.  I  asked her to ask them  to move off the  platform and let other people  through, as my Thai  is limited. She was terrified at the thought.   I went down amongst  them, and by sign language and gentle pushes indicated their time was up and they should move.  They did, with much indignation, but I could see   the other "common" people gathered there were pleased and happy to see them go.  It appears it not just us farangs that  get the dirty end of the stick, anyone  in any position of so called "authority " here  treats  those they deem beneath them with contempt.  Its not just about the money they imagine we  roll in.

Well done and I agree. Pretentious so an so's.

[Gecko123]

It's basically been smooth sailing at my immigration office for the past 18 years, except for one run-in a few years back with a new immigration manager who jacked me around over a bank confirmation letter.

 

The letter was supposed to be valid for five days after the bank issued it, but immigration said they counted the day the letter was issued as if one day had already passed the moment the letter was issued, so in reality the letter was only valid for four days. So when I showed up on the fifth day, they told me I would have to go back to the bank. They initially told me all I would have to do was update my passbook which I did and returned to immigration. They then told me that 'no, no, no' you need to get a new confirmation letter, which necessitated another trip back to the bank. That's despite the 800K having clearly been on deposit for eight years. When I muttered something about this being a waste of time, I was screamed at by the new manager. Maybe it was because all the running back and forth had seriously thrown my shopping schedule off, or maybe it was because my blood sugar was low after the long drive to immigration, but it was nevertheless a traumatizing experience, and I empathize with the OP. Even though that manager has long since left, I've since adopted a 'man-of-few-words' approach to dealing with immigration. I'm happy to report that all of my subsequent visits have gone smoothly.

 

My contribution to the economy is a pittance compared to what it used to be, especially in the past two years during the pandemic. There doesn't seem to be anything to spend money on. It's a no travel, no durable goods, very little driving life style. Need for new clothes is minimal. Some of my farmer neighbors in my economically depressed village are probably outspending me. 555.

 

I'm spending a tiny fraction of what I could be spending, not just because of the pandemic, but because there's so many set asides for possible contingencies: possible increase in requirements for funds on deposit, possible medical insurance requirements, the possibility of being forced to repatriate because immigration requirements change. The proverbial Plan B is always close at hand. The government does seem to enjoy keeping expats on tenterhooks about what might be coming down the pike. They don't seem to realize that the more uncertain the future is, the more people cut back on their spending. Economics 101. Surprised they don't seem to get this.

 

My final comment is to ask if anybody else has noticed that the number of foreigners arrested for overstay or for outstanding arrest warrants seems to have dropped off to almost nothing. I'm still convinced that the number of serious visa overstays, or foreign criminals using Thailand as a home base or to hide out was never anywhere as substantial as the government claimed it was. I think the expat community was exploited for domestic political gain.

 

It is endlessly ironic to me that the pandemic, which collapsed the tourism industry, followed so closely on the heels of all the roundups and security sweeps which the government claimed were designed to rid the country of unwelcome foreign elements. They now appear to be left with a dispirited expat community largely left sheltering in place, and a tourism sector which, at a minimum, is going to take years to recover.

 

That's pretty ironic in my book.

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by Gecko123

[sherwood]

38 minutes ago, gearbox said:

The most farangs do is exchange of money for goods and services. Forget about this contribution rubbish. When I buy groceries in Australia do I need to wai the supermarket workers because they are "contributing" something, providing food to keep me alive? Nope, we have a deal, money in exchange for food. In fact some here are getting really good deals, like wifes younger than their daughters,  try to price this in the home countries.

 

There are some real volunteers contributing selflessly, but they are few and far between.

Well we are not in Australia anymore Toto. 

Go live in a rural community, support an extended family as well as your own children. 

Struth.

Edited November 21, 2021 by sherwood

[KhunLA]

"how long before they realise how much we contribute to the Thai Economy"

 

All the expats could leave tomorrow, and they wouldn't notice or care.  I'm always amazed at how important expats think they are to the economy of Thailand.  

 

The simple fact that it isn't easier (though easy enough) to live here shows, our lack of importance, or desire to have us.

Edited November 21, 2021 by KhunLA

[gearbox]

8 minutes ago, sherwood said:

Well we are not in Australia anymore Toto. 

Go live in a rural community, support an extended family, school, transport. Transition to the workforce and see how you substantiat this claim.

Struth.

Somehow I much doubt that this was the initial intention for the bulk of the farangs moving to Thailand. They were dreaming in the home countries to come here and support extended families in the sticks and so on? By the time they have figured what's going on, they were too much invested to have other choices.

[tonray]

2 hours ago, Cupcake936 said:

Anyway the Company sent me a new Certificate of Insurance clearly stating it provided in excess of the 40,000 Outpatient and 400,000 Inpatient,

Why didn't you have the proper certificate with you ? What did you present to them at first ?