Roof sealing and painting (too good to be true?)

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

We have a tiled roof that is 15 years old, and it is starting to leak (slow dripping onto inner ceiling foam insulation) some 15-20 minutes after rain starts. So it can seem water is soaking through the tiles, and not so much running through cracks or between them, since I guess the dripping would start almost immediately in that case.

 

I have a quote from a local reputable company to deep clean with high pressure cleaner, replace/patch damaged or cracked tiles and to paint the roof. But: They say no primer or anything else needed, just one coat of this wonder-paint. The brand they suggest to use is "Super J-11". They quote a total of B98,000 for work and materials for a 332 m2 roof. 7-8 working days estimated with 4-6 workers.

 

It is said that when something seems too good to be true, it usually is. What I find elsewhere is a need for anti-fungal/moss treatment, a primer (1-2 coats), and 2 coats of special roof paint, applied at 90 degree angle to each other. TOA seems to be mentioned often as a good materials brand. I am looking for a solution to give very good sealing properties and also for the roof to look good for many more years. What would you suggest? Do you know of this Super J-11 paint, and can it be possible that one coat can do all they claim? Seems like magic, and I can't find anything online about this. Help!

[blackcab]

Reputable paint companies such as TOA or Dyno Paint have technical specifications for the application of their products.

 

On large commercial jobs companies such as TOA or Dyno Paint will provide a technician who inspects every stage of the work, and their approval is required before the next stage is allowed to start.

 

If what you are reading is that a multi-stage process is required then the chances are that you are being sold a process that will not deliver long term benefits.

[RayWright]

Hi MeaMaximaCulpa, Can't comment on the paint. But from experience in the UK, don't hi- pressure wash the tiles. Proper tiles in the UK have a coating on them, so if hi-pressure washed makes them more pourus. Which if you're cleaning to remove moss, means it grows back even faster, and is inclined to leak, especially if the Water Proof Membrane between the tiles and the roof timbers gets damaged in the process. (Speak from regreatable experience). Moss probably not much of an issue in these parts, but might be best to check the integrity (if you can) of the tiles in terms of, if hi-pressure washing. Else, low pressure with warm water.

There are single application roof paints, just tried to Google what a friend used in Spain to great effect, unfortunately can't find it.

Best of luck.

 

[Yellowtail]

You should first get a quote from a reputable on what it will cost to replace the roof. Only then will you have an idea of what is or is not a good value.

 

It does not surprise me that a (what I think is) a rubberized coating is applied directly to tiles that have been pressure washed. 

 

The vendor should be able to provide a data sheet that will let you know how it should be applied. 

 

I have used TOA Roofseal mopped and it does not require primer. 

 

I have also used TOA Roof Paint sprayed on without primer and it has been fine. 

 

 

[Enoon]

 

If they are clay/concrete tiles it is highly unlikely that porosity is your problem.

 

 

[Kwasaki]

Have you had the roof inspected 15 years old for tiles isn't that old.

If people have been up on your roof in the past for any reason not using proper equipment then it may only be cracked tiles need replacing because of foot traffic.  Or you may have displaced tiles from high winds. 

Spraying won't work for long. 

[sead]

For that money you can get a new roof with new tiles

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

Thanks to all for answering.

We have had people up several times to fill cracks and realign tiles, with little to no effect.

I will certainly check for a full replacement of the roof tiles, assuming the steel is still ok (check for any rust, may need to paint). Steel is expensive now I hear.

Unless I get very convincing data about the single coat/no primer, I will tend to look for a full job with clean/prime/paint, unless of course the difference to a full new roof is quite small.

Again thanks for your contribution!

[hashmodha]

Is it possible to show some images of what condition the tiles are in?...I was just thinking about this on our roof.... When we had the house built, they suggested Masonry paint which is very thick... Very good advice here...our roof is about 18 metres high so that's going to be some work when it's needed....so far so good.... Let us know how you get on....I will do some research as well.....I know some trustworthy builders who are building some houses here... Good luck!????

[Yellowtail]

11 minutes ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

Thanks to all for answering.

We have had people up several times to fill cracks and realign tiles, with little to no effect.

I will certainly check for a full replacement of the roof tiles, assuming the steel is still ok (check for any rust, may need to paint). Steel is expensive now I hear.

Unless I get very convincing data about the single coat/no primer, I will tend to look for a full job with clean/prime/paint, unless of course the difference to a full new roof is quite small.

Again thanks for your contribution!

Roof paint will not seal your roof, it only changes/refreshes the color.

 

Roof coatings/sealers are different from paint. 

 

 

 

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

2 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

Roof paint will not seal your roof, it only changes/refreshes the color.

 

Roof coatings/sealers are different from paint. 

 

 

 

I am aware of that, TOA has a weathersealing primer as far as I know. I also realise that anything like this will not last forever. But if a new roof is very costly, it may make sense to push the replacement out by quite a few years, and have a more pleasant look. I will keep digging!

[MeaMaximaCulpa]

29 minutes ago, hashmodha said:

Is it possible to show some images of what condition the tiles are in?...I was just thinking about this on our roof.... When we had the house built, they suggested Masonry paint which is very thick... Very good advice here...our roof is about 18 metres high so that's going to be some work when it's needed....so far so good.... Let us know how you get on....I will do some research as well.....I know some trustworthy builders who are building some houses here... Good luck!????

This is actually two pictures of the same roof, just seem to be one... Hope this helps!

Edited January 19, 2022 by MeaMaximaCulpa

[rwill]

Where the water hits the ceiling is not necessarily where it is leaking.  The water can run quite aways sometimes before it starts falling.

 

Also when you look from the outside the roof looks pretty solid.  Take a look from the ceiling access.  You should see lots of light coming in from between the tiles.  They don't fit as tight as we think.  It would be hard to seal all of that.

 

Best to have someone look up there when it is leaking to see where the leak starts.  If you have any valleys they put sheet metal under them to stop the water running in there.  The sheet metal could have corroded.

[Destiny1990]

Cover the existing roof with these aluminum sheets is probably a better and a cheaper solution.

[Cake Monster]

I have had all kinds of issues with the roofs in Thailand.

The main reason that I have decided the roofs leak are 

1 ) The actual climate in the Country

The roof structures are made from Welded Steel tubing, and there are no expansion joints, when the weather is cooler ( such as it has been recently, the steel shrinks, and warps.

When the weather starts to get warmer again, the Steel expands, and in doing so it warps, but maybe differently, and the Tiles are then miss aligned, and some actually lift out of place..

The top photo shows this well if you look at the photo slightly up from the center and slightly left you will see a tile with the misalignment I am talking about.

Its a Scientific term called the Coefficient of Linear Expansion, and the reason Rail Lines have expansion joints in them.

2) The tile design

The clay Tiles used in Thailand do not have large overlaps as the Roof Sheets in Photo 2 demonstrate.

They only have very small inter linking tags on the ridges of the Tile, and due to this design fault when the roof gets cold or hot , it takes very little movement to prevent these Tiles from sitting correctly.

Once there is a small gap all the Muck goes under the joints, and water wicks thro the Muck and causes more leaks.

Again the Top photo shows how some of the tiles are not sitting correctly( wide gaps at the seams )

I really dont know what the answer is to a fully leak proof Roof, except to Silicone Seal every joint with a Silicone Based Medium that is both flexible and resilient to the UV rays of the Sun.

IMO painting the tiles is akin to putting Lipstick on  a Pig, and will not prevent leaks

 

 

[Stevemercer]

Hmm. It would be expensive to replace like with like. My guess would be at least 250,000 Baht for similar new tiles. A metal roof would, of course, be cheapest starting at 100,000 Baht for 300 square metres.

 

I assume you prefer tiles because they are quieter during rain and, in theory, might be individually replaceable in the event of damage or leaks. You could get the large thinner tiles (like below the guttering in your second photo) for maybe 125,000  - 150,000.

 

Things don't last as long in the tropics. As has been suggested in other posts, there is probably accumulated muck in between some of the tiles which is letting the water in. High pressure cleaning might help clear this out.

[thailand49]

Title roof,  I'm no expert but 98,000 baht to power wash and paint!  That paint is temporary by the time you figure it out call the guy back at best you will get a blank look. 

It is very easy on these roof to find the lead if it is a one story you are in Pattaya give me a PM, I'll come over and give you a opinion?  Aside from a actual crack title the leaks majority of time comes from the cement holding down the top caps after time due to the heat the tiles or caps shift causing the cement to crack.  Pitch roof starts at the top runs down I got two buckets of roof sealer, gloves, and a 6 inches brush started at the top problem solve never paint the tiles or change the colors good for two years then starts to chip and flake my Thai Neighbor paid 25000 it still leaks and colors is all chip.  After I stop my leak since my roof is also over 15 years I did paint it by hand on cloudy days took me two months sections at a time. Only house out of 10 that doesn't leak. Good luck

[BritManToo]

7 hours ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

I have a quote from a local reputable company to deep clean with high pressure cleaner, replace/patch damaged or cracked tiles and to paint the roof. But: They say no primer or anything else needed, just one coat of this wonder-paint. The brand they suggest to use is "Super J-11". They quote a total of B98,000 for work and materials for a 332 m2 roof. 7-8 working days estimated with 4-6 workers.

Too much ....... 10K-15kbht tops.

Better to put roofing membrane under the tiles.

Edited January 19, 2022 by BritManToo

[Cake Monster]

39 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

Hmm. It would be expensive to replace like with like. My guess would be at least 250,000 Baht for similar new tiles. A metal roof would, of course, be cheapest starting at 100,000 Baht for 300 square metres.

 

I assume you prefer tiles because they are quieter during rain and, in theory, might be individually replaceable in the event of damage or leaks. You could get the large thinner tiles (like below the guttering in your second photo) for maybe 125,000  - 150,000.

 

Things don't last as long in the tropics. As has been suggested in other posts, there is probably accumulated muck in between some of the tiles which is letting the water in. High pressure cleaning might help clear this out.

Been there and done that as they say.

The larger thinner Tiles you refer too in the photo are actually Cement Fiber Roof Sheets and usually come either 4 mm or 5 mm thick., with a cost of about 50 Baht for one about 1.2 Meters long X 700 mm coverage wide.

In my experience these are also an issue due to their weight, and the expansion /contraction of the Steel.

These Sheets are ok when first installed, but as time goes on they become very brittle ( as bad as a Cream Cracker ) and when the roof moves they crack from the holes where the screws hold them down, because the steel moves, and the sheets are so heavy they cant

I stripped an entire Apartment roof ( 40 M long x 7 M deep ) of these sheets due to the large amount of leakage and another issue which was " sagging " of the sheets due to their weight.

This caused the ends of the sheets to lift, and when the wind blew, it blew the rain right up under the sheets causing a massive problem despite a 250 mm overlap.

The Apartment roof was recovered with metal sheets, and no o problems at all since, as the sheets are also Metal and Expand and contract with the heat, as well as being flexible enough to sit correctly after any movement.

Yes, these Metal sheets are a little noisy when it Rains, but they are available with sound deadening foam on the underside, which can also help a little with Heat reflection from the Sun, and are available to custom length, thickness and colour

Just my 2 Cents

PS

If you are in Pattaya or close by, I have the name and location of Metal Sheet supplier so you can go look for yourself

Edited January 19, 2022 by Cake Monster

[misterphil]

7 hours ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

332 m2 roof

Thats a big roof. Do you live in a huge mansion? 

[bbko]

My 25 satang input, I have roofing tile just like the OP's (OP is your roof gable or hip?), our roof would leak 10-15 minutes after a heavy rain started BUT it was only at the center of the kitchen right below the roof apex (we have a gable roof) so we were able to guess where the leak was coming from (the apex).  My wife and I saw a construction team building a house nearby and stopped and ask them if they could assist, the next day 2 guys stopped by and checked out our roof, they returned the following day with sealer paint and painted the entire apex of the roof, problem solved, cost 2000b, no leaks for the past 7 years.

Edited January 19, 2022 by bbko

[thailand49]

3 hours ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

This is actually two pictures of the same roof, just seem to be one... Hope this helps!

Thanks for the photos from my observation so very typical of Thais if that is who is working on roof sorry not bashing but from it this is what I say under my breath?  " half ass at that "  they only partially use regular cement to try to seal the crack and only from the top left they try to use as little material as possible and charge you full price!  A bucket of sealer at HomePro is like 590 baht which from your photo should seal at least the entire top if you don't lay it on heavy?

 

I had the same problem with my roof the builder he said he used silicone, but after a few rain storms it continue I finally climb up myself and I said to myself " where "  I don't have the name now but the sealer common creamy and sets quick I laid it heavy to seal  any crack that.

 

Your second photo is an addition very common I did so at my house in the back, if it is leaking I believe there isn't enough pitch so when it rains hard and it comes at an angle the area where the large titles meet the smaller ones it will leak there.  Personally your roof looks just like mines same color based on the pictures I seriously doubt you are going to find a Thai to do what is required at an expensive price. Even at my age 70, good shape I got <deleted> stubborn so I just climb up and did it myself it took me while two and a half full buckets but this winter here in Pattaya lots of rain and all the leaks are gone.

 

My apartment next door has a different roof much cheaper panels that are screwed in same situation leaking Thai tenants sadly just happy to have a clean place but one day I walked in to do some fixing and noticed so before the winter came I climb up lucky I'm not heavy walking in the wrong area the panels can crack they get so dry. Due to the heat the screws that hold the panels in place loosen, I took a drill with a 10 M head and tighten every screw they were all loose over 300 them then came with the same bucket of sealer and cover each screw over. Waited for the next big rain success a big smile on my face!  

 

Unless you need to replace the roof 2000 baht worth of material and time! Today I rarely allow a Thai to come into my house to do any work, my apartment it is all done by myself any repair once it is reported I attend to it in minutes.

 

Like the other guy said you need to find a guy pay someone by the day!  get the material yourself and tell the guy exactly what to do.  Personally they are trying to rip you off 98,000 baht, whoever you been using get rid of him the area under the gutters don't have enough pitch either!  poor job the people you are using of course been there suggested by your wife through a source of another source? 

Good luck!

Edited January 19, 2022 by thailand49

[MrJ2U]

8 hours ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

total of B98,000

Almost be smarter to pay a little more and replace the roof.

 

Try to use someone reputable like SCG.

 

You'll have a real warranty that you can use if theres a problem.

 

I just think putting something over an old tiled roof will eventually leak and you'll be stuck with it.

 

Good luck.

 

Maybe you can send me a link with this advertised miracle paint stuff.

 

Leaking roofs, very stressful indeed.

[snowgard]

I don't know where you got your prices but at ThaiWatsadu the tiles are very cheap. 

1 tiles 9.50 - 13.25 THB / 11 p.m2 x 332m2 = 34.694 - 48.389,- THB plus the top tiles, ...

Looks for me cheaper to buy new as let make new color.

กระเบื้องหลังคาคอนกรีต / อุปกรณ์ - Thai Watsadu

 

And the old one you can sell for 3-5 thb/piece.

Edited January 19, 2022 by snowgard

[sead]

6 hours ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

Thanks to all for answering.

We have had people up several times to fill cracks and realign tiles, with little to no effect.

I will certainly check for a full replacement of the roof tiles, assuming the steel is still ok (check for any rust, may need to paint). Steel is expensive now I hear.

Unless I get very convincing data about the single coat/no primer, I will tend to look for a full job with clean/prime/paint, unless of course the difference to a full new roof is quite small.

Again thanks for your contribution!

Quick calculation is 50000 for tiles and 20000 for 3 men

[bbko]

OP, do you always just get one price quote and stop right there?

[desert dueller]

5 hours ago, thailand49 said:

Title roof,  I'm no expert but 98,000 baht to power wash and paint!  That paint is temporary by the time you figure it out call the guy back at best you will get a blank look. 

It is very easy on these roof to find the lead if it is a one story you are in Pattaya give me a PM, I'll come over and give you a opinion?  Aside from a actual crack title the leaks majority of time comes from the cement holding down the top caps after time due to the heat the tiles or caps shift causing the cement to crack.  Pitch roof starts at the top runs down I got two buckets of roof sealer, gloves, and a 6 inches brush started at the top problem solve never paint the tiles or change the colors good for two years then starts to chip and flake my Thai Neighbor paid 25000 it still leaks and colors is all chip.  After I stop my leak since my roof is also over 15 years I did paint it by hand on cloudy days took me two months sections at a time. Only house out of 10 that doesn't leak. Good luck

Indeed. Probably the cement holding down the top caps. Neighbour had tenants in his house, they never reproted any leaks, so when they moved out he found the entire internal gyprock ceiling was damaged by unreported drip drip leaks ...... Land lord lives next door, lazy tenants from Germany didn't care. 160,000 thb repair job. I got the roof guy over to check out my roof cavity, he sent a guy in there video recording his inspection on his mobile. Quoted me 16000 thb to replace old cement, then apply a white sealant all round the caps and the cement, then paint in roof colour. This is all the roof ridges, along the top, and all ridges down to the gutter edges. Tiles as such not affected. I opted not to proceed because I don't think it is necessary as yet. Neighbour's house is approx 6-7 years old.

[thainet]

6 hours ago, Cake Monster said:

Been there and done that as they say.

The larger thinner Tiles you refer too in the photo are actually Cement Fiber Roof Sheets and usually come either 4 mm or 5 mm thick., with a cost of about 50 Baht for one about 1.2 Meters long X 700 mm coverage wide.

In my experience these are also an issue due to their weight, and the expansion /contraction of the Steel.

These Sheets are ok when first installed, but as time goes on they become very brittle ( as bad as a Cream Cracker ) and when the roof moves they crack from the holes where the screws hold them down, because the steel moves, and the sheets are so heavy they cant

I stripped an entire Apartment roof ( 40 M long x 7 M deep ) of these sheets due to the large amount of leakage and another issue which was " sagging " of the sheets due to their weight.

This caused the ends of the sheets to lift, and when the wind blew, it blew the rain right up under the sheets causing a massive problem despite a 250 mm overlap.

The Apartment roof was recovered with metal sheets, and no o problems at all since, as the sheets are also Metal and Expand and contract with the heat, as well as being flexible enough to sit correctly after any movement.

Yes, these Metal sheets are a little noisy when it Rains, but they are available with sound deadening foam on the underside, which can also help a little with Heat reflection from the Sun, and are available to custom length, thickness and colour

Just my 2 Cents

From the work on your own roof, what would you estimate the cost to be on a 3 storey apartment building of approx 400 sqm, using the metalsheet with foam underlay. Lot of labour involved, danger at that height and scaffolding rental cost. Thanks if you help on this.

Edited January 19, 2022 by thainet

[sometimewoodworker]

8 hours ago, thainet said:

From the work on your own roof, what would you estimate the cost to be on a 3 storey apartment building of approx 400 sqm, using the metalsheet with foam underlay. Lot of labour involved, danger at that height and scaffolding rental cost. Thanks if you help on this.

Depending on the steel sheet used it can cost between 120 Baht per sqm and a little over 300 Baht per sqm, insulation goes for between 50 Baht per sqm to over 150 Baht per sqm.

 

labour to actually install is not that many and scaffolding again may not be that much. Our install was done by 3~6 people and was completed in 3 days it starts at 3.44 minutes. It is a bit over 400 sqm 

 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by sometimewoodworker

[Kwasaki]

17 hours ago, MeaMaximaCulpa said:

This is actually two pictures of the same roof, just seem to be one... Hope this helps!

Without seeing it myself there looks nothing wrong with your roof that someone who knows where to look and knows what his doing. 

The roof doesn't look old I see a few roofs locally and it all the problem turned out to be as usual  bad workmanship.

 

As said before looking from the picture cracked tiles  or misaligned joints have to be found without causes further damage. 

 

The joint between the two different elevation roof slopes need to be paid special attention.

 

The problem here as always is finding a professional workman if you can find such a thing.