Assault on Kiev: Russian helicopters swoop above Ukraine's capital

[ozimoron]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

MH17 err.  Don't forget the Ukrainian person involved or is that not allowed. 

Produce a credible link implicating a Ukrainian person in a command role who has either been indicted or not been indicted. The Ukrainian citizen mentioned will be tried. The point is that Russians with command responsibility are fugitives.

[Rimmer]

Getting off topic now guys...

[Bkk Brian]

How anyone cannot get emotional on whats going in Ukraine baffles me.

 

I just watched the John Kirby press conference at the Pentagon. Probably one of the most heartfelt emotional words by a hardened ex military Pentagon spokesman.

 

"Depravity" 

 

"I don't think we appreciated he would visit that kind of violence and cruelty and as I said depravity on innocent people with utter disregard for the lives taken. There's not even an attempt by Russia to be precise in their targeting"

 

 

[2 is 1]

 

[Rimmer]

Off topic removed

[candide]

3 hours ago, Chris.B said:

 

How many tanks does Vlad really have in his imaginary 12,800 tank army? 

 

"According to the International Institute for Strategic Studies (IISS) The Military Balance, the Russians have 2,800 tanks and 13,000 other armored vehicles (reconnaissance and infantry fighting vehicles) in units with another 10,000 tanks and 8,500 armored vehicles in storage."Apr 12, 2565 BE

 

"A senior U.S. Defense Department official estimated this week that “the Ukrainians have more tanks in Ukraine than the Russians do,” given the huge losses Russian armor have taken as a result of Ukrainian artillery and shoulder-fired anti-armor attacks."5 days ago

 

On top of it, Russian tanks have  a 'jack-in-the-box' design flaw! ????

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/04/27/europe/russia-tanks-blown-turrets-intl-hnk-ml/index.html

[tgw]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

How anyone cannot get emotional on whats going in Ukraine baffles me.

 

I just watched the John Kirby press conference at the Pentagon. Probably one of the most heartfelt emotional words by a hardened ex military Pentagon spokesman.

 

"Depravity" 

 

"I don't think we appreciated he would visit that kind of violence and cruelty and as I said depravity on innocent people with utter disregard for the lives taken. There's not even an attempt by Russia to be precise in their targeting"

 

 

grief, anger, resolve and focus.

I think Ukrainians have lots of it.

 

since yesterday, some media announce the goal of the help to Ukraine is to deliver enough weapons to stall and stop Ruzzia's attack so that Putin is forced to negotiate.

 

But this feels wrong, especially from the perspective of Ukraine. Negotiations mean that Ruzzia would be rewarded with something.

 

From Ukraine's perspective any kind of concession is unacceptable, and the list and severity of Ukraine's righteous potential revendications is growing with every Ukrainian life lost or deported and every destroyed or stolen asset.

 

Ruzzia should not be allowed to enter negotiations with Ukrainian territories as trading chips.

Instead, they should be made to consider paying for rebuilding Ukraine and compensate the victims in exchange for being allowed to keep their navy base in Sevastopol.

 

and there is Lavrov saying Lifting sanctions against Russia part of peace talks with Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lifting-sanctions-against-russia-part-peace-talks-with-ukraine-lavrov-2022-04-30/

 

There is still a long long way to go and just stopping the Ruzzians is not enough.

 

[tgw]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61249158

 

- forced deportations

- torture of civilians

- forced amputations (!!!!)

- Ruzzia captures civilians to swap them for captured Russian soldiers

 

more and more atrocities

 

read the BBC story, it's horrifying

 

 

[metisdead]

A "Google it yourself" troll post has been removed.

[RJRS1301]

12 minutes ago, tgw said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61249158

 

- forced deportations

- forced amputations (!!!!)

- Ruzzia captures civilians to swap them for captured Russian soldiers

 

more and more atrocities

 

read the BBC story, it's horrifying

 

 

Depravity, nothing less .

 

[Kwasaki]

3 hours ago, ozimoron said:

Produce a credible link implicating a Ukrainian person in a command role who has either been indicted or not been indicted. The Ukrainian citizen mentioned will be tried. The point is that Russians with command responsibility are fugitives.

OK I'll find the link although I see as off topic.  Good grief.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, tgw said:

But this feels wrong, especially from the perspective of Ukraine. Negotiations mean that Ruzzia would be rewarded with something.

 

From Ukraine's perspective any kind of concession is unacceptable, and the list and severity of Ukraine's righteous potential revendications is growing with every Ukrainian life lost or deported and every destroyed or stolen asset.

 

Ruzzia should not be allowed to enter negotiations with Ukrainian territories as trading chips.

Instead, they should be made to consider paying for rebuilding Ukraine and compensate the victims in exchange for being allowed to keep their navy base in Sevastopol.

 

and there is Lavrov saying Lifting sanctions against Russia part of peace talks with Ukraine
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/lifting-sanctions-against-russia-part-peace-talks-with-ukraine-lavrov-2022-04-30/

 

There is still a long long way to go and just stopping the Ruzzians is not enough.

 

Indeed it feels wrong, at the very least sanctions need to stay in place until every single Russian murderer has left the soil of Ukraine, compensation is paid for Ukraine's rebuilding and compensation paid to those civilians and children who have lost loved ones, been raped and tortured.

 

Zelenskyy: Some will wait for an international tribunal, others will wait “for the night” to take revenge on occupiers

 

According to Zelenskyy: "I know that there are people in our society who will seek out every [Russian soldier who has committed mass murders of Ukrainian civilians - ed.].

Nothing can be done about it. This is not a threat. I’m telling you frankly, as a father, as a husband. I know that there are many people who feel like that in Ukraine.

[Bkk Brian]

Ukrainian authorities are now refusing to exchange prisoners with Russia without women on the list. Currently, more than a thousand hostages are in Russia, including almost 500 women – Iryna Vereshchuk 1/2

 

Vereshchuk adds that during last exchange, 9 civilians returned to Ukraine with serious injuries, including amputated limbs and signs of torture. In addition, Russia tries to exchange Ukrainian civilians for Russian prisoners of war which is prohibited by Geneva Convention 2/2

[Chris.B]

Vladimir Putin 'will undergo cancer operation in the near future

 

• Russian leader set for surgery, which officials insist is 'of no particular urgency'
• Power over Ukraine war will transfer to ally and Security Council chief Patrushev
• Putin has cancer, Parkinson's and 'schizophrenic symptoms': Telegram channel

 

Daily Mail

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, Chris.B said:

The word you are looking for is "pre-emptive"?

 

With nuclear winter to follow. Fallout is non country specific.

 

BTW I doubt a "limited" pre emptive nuclear attack is possible. Any nuclear attack would need to destroy the country's entire nuclear arsenal to prevent a nuclear retaliation ie MAD.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

With nuclear winter to follow. Fallout is non country specific.

 

BTW I doubt a "limited" pre emptive nuclear attack is possible. Any nuclear attack would need to destroy the country's entire nuclear arsenal to prevent a nuclear retaliation ie MAD.

Who’s talking about using nuclear weapons and why?

 

Then why do you believe them?!

[RJRS1301]

8 hours ago, Chris.B said:

Vladimir Putin 'will undergo cancer operation in the near future

 

• Russian leader set for surgery, which officials insist is 'of no particular urgency'
• Power over Ukraine war will transfer to ally and Security Council chief Patrushev
• Putin has cancer, Parkinson's and 'schizophrenic symptoms': Telegram channel

 

Daily Mail

 

 

That is not a surgical team one would want to be part of, especially i he should suffer an anaesthetic incident during any procedure, or if he doesn't, between a rock and hard decision 

[Bkk Brian]

Yea and good riddance to them, who wants to be stuck with Russians in a space station after this has happened

 

Russia Will Quit International Space Station Over Sanctions

 

The head of Russia’s space program said Moscow will pull out of the International Space Station, state media reported, a move it has blamed on sanctions imposed over the invasion of Ukraine.

 

“The decision has been taken already, we’re not obliged to talk about it publicly,” Tass and RIA Novosti reported Roscosmos General Director Dmitry Rogozin as saying in an interview with state TV on Saturday. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-04-30/russia-will-quit-international-space-station-over-sanctions

[metisdead]

An off topic deflection post of a "whataboutery" nature has been removed as well as the replies.

[Bkk Brian]

April 30 Assessment Highlight: #Russian forces appear increasingly unlikely to achieve any major advances in eastern #Ukraine, and Ukrainian forces may be able to conduct wider counterattacks in the coming days.

 

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-april-30

[tgw]

Ruzzia has started copy Ukraine and publishes estimated damage it inflicted to Ukrainian armed forces:

 

Quote

Russia has destroyed 142 Ukrainian aircraft and 112 helicopters, 658 drones, 279 anti-aircraft missile systems, 2,656 tanks and other armored combat vehicles, 307 multiple launch rocket systems, and 1,189 field artillery and mortar launchers in total, according to the ministry.

https://edition.cnn.com/europe/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-news-04-30-22/index.html

[Kwasaki]

16 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

OK I'll find the link although I see as off topic.  Good grief.

tgw posted the name of the Ukrainian person some 25 posts back. 

[Seppius]

I wonder if John Kirby, an Admiral no less, is so chocked up because he already knows how this scenario will end.

 

Total destruction of the world in the coming weeks. I would not be surprised to see America strike first

[Kwasaki]

35 minutes ago, Seppius said:

I wonder if John Kirby, an Admiral no less, is so chocked up because he already knows how this scenario will end.

 

Total destruction of the world in the coming weeks. I would not be surprised to see America strike first

Well if it does let's hope it stays with US & Russia alone. 

[Chris.B]

47 minutes ago, Seppius said:

I wonder if John Kirby, an Admiral no less, is so chocked up because he already knows how this scenario will end.

 

Total destruction of the world in the coming weeks. I would not be surprised to see America strike first

He is a rear admiral which is one rank above Captain. He is also retired, so go and spread your fear mongering somewhere else.  ☹️

 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well if it does let's hope it stays with US & Russia alone. 

Thats absurd  Heard of nuclear winter?

[Kwasaki]

12 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Thats absurd  Heard of nuclear winter?

Not been in one yet and continuous prevailing Northerly wind would be good. 

[RJRS1301]

43 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well if it does let's hope it stays with US & Russia alone. 

I do not want any of us to experience a nuclear winter

[rudi49jr]

6 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

I do not want any of us to experience a nuclear winter

Yeah, it would be a very long and brutal winter indeed, but almost certainly a very short one for almost all of us, if anyone would survive at all. The world has suddenly become a crazy place, where apparently all of a sudden one deranged potentate gets to decide if we all live or die. 

[Jingthing]

Prescient Russian lady