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Jan. 6 committee says probe shows Trump led and directed effort to overturn 2020 election


onthedarkside

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10 minutes ago, Phoenix Rising said:

Quite correct so it all depends on the context and situation. When a coach tells his sports team to go out there and fight like hell we all know what he means.

But when a sitting president falsely claims the election was stolen and he urges his most ardent supporters (all fired up and not exactly mental giants) to march on the Capitol and fight like hell I'd say the chances of them taking his words literally are a solid 100%. Which they did, and people died.

Get it now?

 

I get that you're distorting the fight like hell wording, quotation and context and invite you to listen to the speech again. When this phrase was used, Trump was near the end of his speech and the violent actors  were already breeching the amazingly weak Capitol security. 

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16 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Then he already knew that the rioters were already rioting and far from calling them to stand down he threw gasoline onto the fire.

I don't know what he knew at that time but he should have tried to help stop the problem as soon as he did know. I've had to assume that his own security would have known by the end of the speech and whisked him of back to the WH for his own safety - he was still the President then.

 

That said, the general security arrangements for that day seemed totally inadequate, especially if what Cheyney said is true and it was known in advance by FBI etc. this invasion of the Capitol was all pre-planned.

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1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The fanatical Trump supporters heard it loud and clear, then went directly to the Capitol to attempt a violent overthrow of the lawful democratic process of declaring the election result.

Find the timeline.

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1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

The vote was done. he was appealing to known violent domestic terrorist groups to fight. there is no other reasonable interpretation. he even suggested Pence deserved to be hung. Furthermore, when it became clear that fighting was actually happening he refused to stop it.

I  know you'd loathe it but you should listen to the full speech sometime.

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2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I  know you'd loathe it but you should listen to the full speech sometime.

i listened to all of it live, and the people before him. i wouldn't participate in debate if i didn't know what was going on.

 

How about you? Did you watch the entire House proceedings on Friday?

Edited by ozimoron
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Just now, ozimoron said:

i listened to all of it live, and the people before him. i wouldn't participate in debate if i didn't know what was going on.

Perhaps just a slight memory lapse then. It was 18 months ago after all. 

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7 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Perhaps just a slight memory lapse then. It was 18 months ago after all. 

"You don't concede when there's theft involved. Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore."

 

'If you don't fight like hell you're not going to have a country anymore'

 

"You will have an illegitimate president. That is what you will have, and we can't let that happen."

 

'Peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard'

 

'We are going to the Capitol'

 

Dog whistling doesn't override the other quotes.

----------------------

 

He clearly knew there were people in that crowd who were ready to and intended to be violent, and he certainly did nothing to discourage that. He not only did nothing to discourage it, he strongly hinted it should happen.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55640437

 

Edited by ozimoron
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8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Perhaps just a slight memory lapse then. It was 18 months ago after all. 

You dodged my question in response to your allegation that I didn't watch his speech. Did you watch the House proceedings or not?

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29 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I'd prefer it if you could refrain from making judgment on my ability to make rational opinions, without personally knowing me. 

 

I read these stories years ago but business failures don't all mean being "taken to the cleaners". Some of the best in business take quite a few hits but also make at least as many successful recoveries, before consolidating their wealth.

 

If Trump is such a dunce how come he's ended up with billions, great real estate assets and that stunning wife?  

I’ll make a punt.

 

Anyone who’s combined asset and liabilities are a net positive is wealthier than Donald Trump.

 

His wife is not working he topic of discussion, but she’s certainly not stunning.

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23 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I don't know what he knew at that time but he should have tried to help stop the problem as soon as he did know. I've had to assume that his own security would have known by the end of the speech and whisked him of back to the WH for his own safety - he was still the President then.

 

That said, the general security arrangements for that day seemed totally inadequate, especially if what Cheyney said is true and it was known in advance by FBI etc. this invasion of the Capitol was all pre-planned.

So in the event that evidence is produced that demonstrates Trump knew but failed to act your position is?

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3 minutes ago, candide said:

That would be a case of failure to act. It is the duty of a president to protect the U.S. Constitution and its institutions. On top of it, if it comes up to be the outcome, not only of negligence, but also of common interest with and sympathy for the rioters, it would be an aggravating circumstance.

Not just the President.

 

Members of Congress and the Senate are also sworn to uphold the US Constitution and it’s enemies, against all enemies foreign and domestic.

 

So who knew what and when did they know it.

 

Let’s start with those begging for pardons.

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33 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I read these stories years ago but business failures don't all mean being "taken to the cleaners". Some of the best in business take quite a few hits but also make at least as many successful recoveries, before consolidating their wealth.

 

If Trump is such a dunce how come he's ended up with billions, great real estate assets and that stunning wife?  

Well, for one thing, he used bankruptcy law to protect him from the consequences of his bad decisions:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1992/11/29/trump-went-broke-but-stayed-on-top/e1685555-1de7-400c-99a8-9cd9c0bca9fe/

Also he got really lucky. The Apprentice came along and changed for everything for him.  It sold the world on the idea that Trump was a great businessman. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, candide said:

Nowonder he never wanted to disclose his tax returns. That would have shown what a fail he is (among other reasons ????)

Actually, early in his career he did do some great complicated projects. Although, his father was still there to help him But as time went by he became more and more impulsive. His deals for the Casinos, the Plaza, the Trump shuttle were way too high priced. He got out-negotiated.

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On 6/10/2022 at 11:38 PM, Jingthing said:

It's not like he's EVER going to change but on the other hand sending him to Club Fed might help. 

I wonder how long he would last there?

What jobs should he be assigned to:

- toilet scrubbing with no gloves,

- peeling carrots (to match his hair colour),

- cleaning up the mess room after each meal and then being told by the warden 'you're fired'. But of course it's a lie (what isn't where he's concerned) because he has to return to mess clean up duties after next and all meals)

- documenting the lies told by the chief warden, 

- writing FOX news scripts including 'the election wasn't rigged, it was proven to be legitimate' at least 5 times every minute.

- not allowed to have fast foods. Etc....

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1 hour ago, candide said:

That would be a case of failure to act. It is the duty of a president to protect the U.S. Constitution and its institutions. On top of it, if it comes up to be the outcome, not only of negligence, but also of common interest with and sympathy for the rioters, it would be an aggravating circumstance.

Judge Judy?

 

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