LTR Visa is Now available for Long Term Residency

[TerraplaneGuy]

On 9/13/2022 at 8:17 AM, JimGant said:

The quote about a visa being a permission of stay is from TerraplaneGuy

Correct.  I don't think it's productive to get too deep into these semantic distinctions but I stand by what I said.  When you first enter Thailand with a visa (for example, a non-Immigrant OA retirement visa) that visa entitles you to enter and stay in the country for a certain period (in that example, one year).  There is no separate or additional "permission of stay".  The visa is the permission.  This is the case in all countries I know of; after all, if a visa were purely an entry document you would have to leave the minute you entered unless you had a separate "stay" document, which I can't say I've ever seen in any country.  Every visa has a term of stay specified for it.  It is only when the visa expires that, in Thailand, you need to get a separate permission of stay, which the Thai regulations (Police Order 327/2557) call an "extension of stay".  In many other countries they would characterize it as an extension (or renewal) of the visa itself, but that is not how the Thai regulations put it. 

 

Maybe they'll introduce new terminology for the LTR but that's my understanding of the existing visas.   Hope this helps clarify my post.  ????

Edited September 14, 2022 by TerraplaneGuy

[JimGant]

2 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

When you first enter Thailand with a visa (for example, a non-Immigrant OA retirement visa) that visa entitles you to enter and stay in the country for a certain period (in that example, one year).  There is no separate or additional "permission of stay".  The visa is the permission. 

Negative. That visa, like all visas, allows you to apply for entry into Thailand. Immigration has the discretion to, in the OA case, stamp you in for one year. Or to not stamp you in and send you back whence you came. Or stamp you in equivalent to valid period of required health insurance. The visa is certainly NOT the permission for a length of stay.

 

2 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

This is the case in all countries I know of; after all, if a visa were purely an entry document you would have to leave the minute you entered unless you had a separate "stay" document, which I can't say I've ever seen in any country. 

In the US, that separate stay document is an "Admitted" stamp, designating your visa type and for how long you can stay. Or, in lieu of a stamp, many countries are now issuing "permission of stay" documents to be carried in your passport. In either case, you get that permission (or not) when you apply at an Immigration gateway with a valid visa (unless allowed a visa waiver option -- which still requires a permission stamp).

[anrcaccount]

29 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Negative. That visa, like all visas, allows you to apply for entry into Thailand. Immigration has the discretion to, in the OA case, stamp you in for one year. Or to not stamp you in and send you back whence you came. Or stamp you in equivalent to valid period of required health insurance. The visa is certainly NOT the permission for a length of stay.

 

In the US, that separate stay document is an "Admitted" stamp, designating your visa type and for how long you can stay. Or, in lieu of a stamp, many countries are now issuing "permission of stay" documents to be carried in your passport. In either case, you get that permission (or not) when you apply at an Immigration gateway with a valid visa (unless allowed a visa waiver option -- which still requires a permission stamp).

Can the stamp be longer than 1 year?

 

Have asked this specifically and informed repeatedly by the BOI that it is a 5 year validity , not a 1 year permission to stay, a 5 year permission to stay. 

[TerraplaneGuy]

1 hour ago, JimGant said:

Negative. That visa, like all visas, allows you to apply for entry into Thailand. Immigration has the discretion to, in the OA case, stamp you in for one year. Or to not stamp you in and send you back whence you came. Or stamp you in equivalent to valid period of required health insurance. The visa is certainly NOT the permission for a length of stay.

Well if you want to think of it that way, fine.   You're using the word "apply" in a pretty informal way.  I look at it differently.  I believe when you "apply" for entry is when you apply for a visa.   Once you qualify, pay for it and get the document, you have a right of entry and right to stay for the term.  Otherwise what have you paid for?  You seem to think you've applied for (and paid for) nothing more than "the right to apply" to an airport officer.  That would suggest the officer is the one exercising executive decision-making and may well stamp you in for say 2 weeks despite your having a one-year visa, just cause he feels like it.  Not likely, if he wants to keep his job.  It's true that ultimately all Immigration departments retain discretion to turn you away regardless of your paper.  But if they want to keep the system going (and not lose all their visitors and expats) they will not arbitrarily exercise it and they don't.

 

But look, I've said my piece and if you still prefer your analysis that's fine.  In fact I don't think we disagree on how things work at all, this is semantics.

Edited September 14, 2022 by TerraplaneGuy

[mudcat]

In regards to the 3 x 4 cm  photo .  https://www.epassportphoto.com/ has a template for that dimension under Japan:Alien Registration - remember to choose the free do it yourself option at the bottom as the defaults are for pick up in the U.S. at a photo shop.  After following the cropping directions you will receive a JPG with four correct images.

 

If you choose not to go for the LTR visa, you can supple the 6 x 4 cm image for Immigration extension of stay by selecting the Greece:Passport option and proceeding as above.

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, anrcaccount said:

Can the stamp be longer than 1 year?

 

Have asked this specifically and informed repeatedly by the BOI that it is a 5 year validity , not a 1 year permission to stay, a 5 year permission to stay. 

Yeah, great question. The LTR website certainly seems to say it's a "five year permission of stay."Great! If that means, for this non traveler, that I only have to go to Imm once every five years -- sold!  But as earlier discussion, above, has shown -- confusion remains between what constitutes a visa -- and what constitutes a permission (subsequently an extension) of stay. BoI may be conveniently obfuscating this confusion, in the interest of sales.

 

BoI also handles SMART visas, and here's what's said in relation to their permissions of stay:

 

Quote

Smart Visa holders will be granted maximum 4-year permission to stay, exemption from the work permit requirement and entitled to additional privileges.

If so, why couldn't LTR visas warrant a five year permission of stay stamp?

 

But, spend a lot more money on an Elite Visa, and here's what you get:

 

Quote

The Thai Elite Visa is a 5-year renewable multiple entry visa with an extendable 1-year length of stay per entry.

So, if you don't travel during the year, plan to visit Immigration to renew your one year extension of stay. Doesn't quite add up in the realm of reducing visits to Immigration for non travelers..... (but, appears these types of visas were not set up for us fully-retired geriatrics).

 

Anyway, one more question to sort out, just like -- is a visit to Bangkok anywhere in the application/renewal requirements? Hmmm.

[ThailandRyan]

Just read the article in the paper we can not link to on the LTR visas. It appears they have had 400 applications, many from retirees for the LTRWP.  Appears many Chinese have also applied.  Will be interesting. I hopefully will hear back by the 22nd or soon after that. My current extension of stay expires in November and I normally go to CW in October and renew that extension of stay 30 days prior.  Keeping my fingers crossed. Wishing all who have applied good luck as well.

[ThailandRyan]

3 hours ago, JimGant said:

Yeah, great question. The LTR website certainly seems to say it's a "five year permission of stay."Great! If that means, for this non traveler, that I only have to go to Imm once every five years -- sold!  But as earlier discussion, above, has shown -- confusion remains between what constitutes a visa -- and what constitutes a permission (subsequently an extension) of stay. BoI may be conveniently obfuscating this confusion, in the interest of sales.

 

BoI also handles SMART visas, and here's what's said in relation to their permissions of stay:

 

If so, why couldn't LTR visas warrant a five year permission of stay stamp?

 

But, spend a lot more money on an Elite Visa, and here's what you get:

 

So, if you don't travel during the year, plan to visit Immigration to renew your one year extension of stay. Doesn't quite add up in the realm of reducing visits to Immigration for non travelers..... (but, appears these types of visas were not set up for us fully-retired geriatrics).

 

Anyway, one more question to sort out, just like -- is a visit to Bangkok anywhere in the application/renewal requirements? Hmmm.

Jim have you emailed your questions to the LTR.BOI unit at their email, which I have linked below?

 

[email protected]

Edited September 14, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[Misty]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

Just read the article in the paper we can not link to on the LTR visas. It appears they have had 400 applications, many from retirees for the LTRWP.  Appears many Chinese have also applied.  Will be interesting. I hopefully will hear back by the 22nd or soon after that. My current extension of stay expires in November and I normally go to CW in October and renew that extension of stay 30 days prior.  Keeping my fingers crossed. Wishing all who have applied good luck as well.

Thanks ThailandRyan. Also hope to hear back soon on our application.

 

Regarding the numbers of applications, it's just the initial month of the program, so it's really early days. Very likely that applications will increase over time. I've talked to a number of folks who reside outside Thailand and haven't yet heard of LTR. That will change.

 

I was a BTS skytrain passenger in Dec 1999 when it had just started operating. It was empty - I could take a seat every day to and from work during rush hour.  And this was against consultants' initial passenger projections of something like 400k per day. Where were they? But look at BTS ridership now. 

[pepper402]

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Just read the article in the paper we can not link to on the LTR visas. It appears they have had 400 applications, many from retirees for the LTRWP.  Appears many Chinese have also applied.  Will be interesting. I hopefully will hear back by the 22nd or soon after that. My current extension of stay expires in November and I normally go to CW in October and renew that extension of stay 30 days prior.  Keeping my fingers crossed. Wishing all who have applied good luck as well.

I have a feeling that 400 applicants is not what they expected - especially since they have been advertising this program for months.  At this rate it will take 45 years to reach the 1 Million target.  I also have a feeling that to save face, someone is going to give orders to get more applications approved.  Anyone else have "processing" in their status?  Is the next status update "approved" or "denied" ?

[stuarty]

In my case the next stage is “request more information”. I submitted 3 bank accounts information any of which could easily cover the $100,000 for instead of health insurance. They have come back and asked for an updated statement for one of the accounts instead of just relying on either of the other 2.

it’s almost as if they are looking for reasons to delay or not approve.

What nonsense 

[Adumbration]

On 7/9/2022 at 6:15 PM, Thingamabob said:

As a retiree I am happy to maintain 800k in the bank, and pay 1900 baht once a year for a retirement extension. Why would I want to pay more ?

See how happy you are when that option is taken off the table.

[Misty]

1 hour ago, pepper402 said:

I have a feeling that 400 applicants is not what they expected - especially since they have been advertising this program for months.  At this rate it will take 45 years to reach the 1 Million target.  I also have a feeling that to save face, someone is going to give orders to get more applications approved.  Anyone else have "processing" in their status?  Is the next status update "approved" or "denied" ?

I know one applicant with processing and one with pending, both supposed to hear by 29 Sep. Another applicant with processing, not sure their date.

It was similar with the skytrain, the project was under construction for maybe 5 years right through the main streets of Bangkok. Kind of hard to miss. Lots of interest as the initial test runs were conducted. Still when it opened, there were very few riders. Way below projections. You’d think people liked to sit in traffic jams. But I guess habits take awhile to change.

 

[pepper402]

18 minutes ago, Misty said:

I know one applicant with processing and one with pending, both supposed to hear by 29 Sep. Another applicant with processing, not sure their date.

It was similar with the skytrain, the project was under construction for maybe 5 years right through the main streets of Bangkok. Kind of hard to miss. Lots of interest as the initial test runs were conducted. Still when it opened, there were very few riders. Way below projections. You’d think people liked to sit in traffic jams. But I guess habits take awhile to change.

 

It would be really nice if they had a chart which showed the stages of the process.  Is processing ahead or behind pending?  What comes next?  They should be reading these forums, or have a feedback button. I was also one of the early Skytrain riders.  It's a giant concrete monstrosity but great way to get around. 

[Misty]

16 minutes ago, pepper402 said:

It would be really nice if they had a chart which showed the stages of the process.  Is processing ahead or behind pending?  What comes next?  They should be reading these forums, or have a feedback button. I was also one of the early Skytrain riders.  It's a giant concrete monstrosity but great way to get around. 

That would be good.  Perhaps we'll see that in the future.

 

Like your skytrain comment "It's a giant monstrosity but great way to get around." Kind of feel the same about the LTR. With all of it's initial issues, it's still so much better than the annual work permit/visa extension I've had to do for the past 15 years as a small business owner.  Just having a website to check status, let alone all the other improvements, make this so much worth it.

 

I imagine when the skytrain was under construction, people sitting in their cars along the route were thinking "what a nuisance."  But to me the developer (ITD) was nothing short of heroic.  The skytrain project wasn't even financed - after the baht floated, the USD financials were out the window. But ITD kept building month after month, year after year, despite not being compensated - saving Bangkok from itself. 

 

I kind of feel the same about the BoI - they didn't ask for the LTR project, it was foisted on them. But they're doing their best from what I can see. And this is oh so much better than what was, at least for small business owners like me. The LTR may be nuisance to some, and they are certainly free to go 'sit in their cars; if they chose. The BoI are heroes to me.

 

[Mutt Daeng]

9 hours ago, Adumbration said:

On 7/9/2022 at 6:15 PM, Thingamabob said:

As a retiree I am happy to maintain 800k in the bank, and pay 1900 baht once a year for a retirement extension. Why would I want to pay more ?

See how happy you are when that option is taken off the table.

I doubt extension of stay based on retirement will ever be "taken off the table", since It is a major "earner" for immigration.

[Mike Teavee]

On 7/9/2022 at 6:15 PM, Thingamabob said:

As a retiree I am happy to maintain 800k in the bank, and pay 1900 baht once a year for a retirement extension. Why would I want to pay more ?

As a Retiree I'm happy to maintain 800K in the bank & pay my agent 8K to go do all that stuff for me... 

 

Why would I scrimp on 6,100 THB and have to run around filling out forms only to find that I got something wrong/was missing something so come back tomorrow... 

 

The wonderful thing about having Jomtien as my Immigration Office is I no longer even have to show up for my extension, CW was an absolute pain to get to.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2022 by Mike Teavee

[Mike Teavee]

19 minutes ago, Mutt Daeng said:

I doubt extension of stay based on retirement will ever be "taken off the table", since It is a major "earner" for immigration.

As an aside & as I get older, the 1Million THB 20 year Thai Elite visa becomes more & more attractive.

 

When you start from the mindset that you have 800K deadweight in a bank account to support your retirement extension then it's "Only" an extra 200K for 20 years multi-entry easy life visa.... 

 

Maybe next year hey son (1 for us Brits

 

I were right about that saddle though ????

Edited September 15, 2022 by Mike Teavee

[Alotoftravel]

ThailandRyan or anyone who is granted approval :

 

Have a gotten any info what we need to bring to immigration to the annual check up ?

i am thinking they would want to see our

1) insurance certificate for another year or $100k in bank for the insurance 

2) ?

3) 

 

i assume that in the 5th year , we should need to show income again, BOI or immigration ?

I am trying to think all that is needed so that our initial 50k baht fee is able to see all 10 years worth . 
 

it would be nice to have this info before coughing up the fee . Any feedback would be appreciated .
Thanks 

 

 

[mudcat]

As to the requirements for the 'annual' 90-day report I have seen nothing official.  During the Webinar there was a response about rationale for the 10-month validity for health insurance that stated there would be no checking on health insurance until the 5-year requalification. 

 

I just applied this morning - as Pacific Cross was not willing to change my policy date until I renew in December-January, I opted to qualify by offering up my JPMorgan investment statement that includes >$100K in my Roth IRA - we shall see if that flies.  

 

I waited to apply until my renewed passport arrived - why carry the wreckage of the past along into the new sunny uplands of the LTR visa.  When I went to my local immigration office to transfer stamps it was clear he had heard about the LTR and seemed ignorant about the Wealthy Pensioner option of investing less in Thailand  than the ThB 800K extension - he seemed to think I was going to invest real money here instead being forced to park an unused car in the garage as it rusts away through depreciation.

[JimGant]

On 9/15/2022 at 7:39 AM, Mike Teavee said:

When you start from the mindset that you have 800K deadweight in a bank account to support your retirement extension then it's "Only" an extra 200K for 20 years multi-entry easy life visa.... 

Yeah, I look at the 800k as a sunk cost -- and one from the liquid, mattress end of my US retirement portfolio (i.e., only earning .08% in a savings account). So, opportunity cost is zip.

 

But, as a non traveler, the Elite Visa would still require an annual visit to Immigration for a new extension stamp. So, don't really see the utility. Plus, why give a million baht to the Thai gov't, when a million baht left to some really nice Thai nieces and nephews would certainly ease their journey into old age. No. Going the Elite Visa route doesn't add up in my situation -- and is pretty selfish in the estate planning realm. (But, for frequent travelers, it might make sense -- as long as your wheelchair fits into the jetway...)

Edited September 16, 2022 by JimGant

[sawademe]

Is there a window of time that one must enter thailand after being approved for this visa? Im planning to go there in December and unsure if I should apply now or wait until November?

[mudcat]

There are two options - if you apply now and you are approved you must activate the visa within 60-days at either the One-Stop service center in Bangkok or at your embassy or consulate.   As far as any of us know approval is taking at least 3-weeks so you may ruin into being forced to travel to your embassy or consulate if your travel would put you outside of the 60-day window.  If you are close to the embassy or consulate you should contact them and see what their procedures are for activating the visa.  If that does not work out you can delay your application to enter visa exempt and activate the visa in Bangkok.  

[Misty]

42 minutes ago, mudcat said:

There are two options - if you apply now and you are approved you must activate the visa within 60-days at either the One-Stop service center in Bangkok or at your embassy or consulate.   As far as any of us know approval is taking at least 3-weeks so you may ruin into being forced to travel to your embassy or consulate if your travel would put you outside of the 60-day window.  If you are close to the embassy or consulate you should contact them and see what their procedures are for activating the visa.  If that does not work out you can delay your application to enter visa exempt and activate the visa in Bangkok.  

Interested to see the thaievisa.go.th site now includes the LTR visa as a choice. So Evisa is an option if your embassy or consulate can grant one (depends on your country).  
 

 Timeframe could be 1) submit application, 2) in 20 working days receive BoI approval letter, 3) take up to 60 days to apply for evisa, 4) wait for consulate to grant evisa (not sure how long, but past evisas have been not more than a couple days). 5) Once evisa granted, should have a period of time (90 days?) to use it to enter Thailand.

  
Of course don’t have to wait 60 days to apply for evisa, so could all be done in a month or so.

 

[BritTim]

15 minutes ago, Misty said:

5) Once evisa granted, should have a period of time (90 days?) to use it to enter Thailand.

I think the period of time for entering the country would be five years (expiry date of the visa)

[ThailandRyan]

Just now, BritTim said:

I think the period of time for entering the country would be five years (expiry date of the visa)

Initial entry? That is an interesting subject....most Visa's once issued need to have you enter the country within a certain time frame.

 

I know that once the endorsement approval letter is sent to the individual they have 60 days to have the visa issued

 

Visa Issuance

Qualified applicants may proceed with applying for LTR Visa issuance at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or Immigration offices in Thailand within 60 days from the issuance date of the endorsement letter. The processing fee for the 10-year visa with multiple entry is 50,000 Baht per person in case of collecting LTR Visa in Thailand. In the case of collecting LTR Visa at the Royal Thai Embassies/the Royal Thai Consulate Generals overseas or E-visa, fee may vary depending on the currency exchange rate of each country.

[ThailandRyan]

Just checked the status of my application still in processing, but since I submitted my new PCH HI policy last Wednesday, the bottom buttons now on page 4 are now gone and there is no way to submit any new documents.  Seems it is in the final review process, keeping my fingers crossed I hear something back by the 22nd which is 20 actual days from when submitted, if you go by a 5 day work week then the 20 days would be the 30th,  I also can not change any items in the fields on any of the pages now as well.

Edited September 17, 2022 by ThailandRyan

[pepper402]

2 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Just checked the status of my application still in processing, but since I submitted my new PCH HI policy last Wednesday, the bottom buttons now on page 4 are now gone and there is no way to submit any new documents.  Seems it is in the final review process, keeping my fingers crossed I hear something back by the 22nd which is 20 actual days from when submitted, if you go by a 5 day work week then the 20 days would be the 30th,  I also can not change any items in the fields on any of the pages now as well.

I am in the same status.  I can add or remove items from #1 to #17 but can't "submit" (is that the bottom button you are referring to)?  I wonder if I add a document will the bottom buttons reappear.    I talked to a live person last week who told me that it would take 20 business days.  I did not want to bring to his attention the fact that the website says "within 20 business days).  I'm going to call again early next week.  I'll post results.  

[Misty]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

I think the period of time for entering the country would be five years (expiry date of the visa)

Could be and makes some sense.  Hope to find out soon!

 

90 day NonB e-visa gave 90 days to use it, and then it was good for another 90 days after entering Thailand.  But I have no idea if the two periods of time were related.

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, mudcat said:

activate the visa in Bangkok.  

I thought we could go to our local Imm office to activate....? If LTR requires a trip to Bangkok, no thanks. Two hours to renew my current retirement extension at Chiang Mai Imm beats a roundtrip, with possible night overstay, to Bangkok -- not to mention peeing in a cup while in gridlock traffic.