5 hours ago, Yumthai said:

How much is the threshold where you say: "Too much is too much, I'd rather die or be left in a care bed than give these ripoff Thai hospitals one more $"? Fascinating.

Health is priceless. Money is not more than a tool.

Live your life and let others live theirs. Dont preach.

That is my advice to you in return. 

Trouble with these types of visas is that the rules can change overnight. If the concept was cancelled would you get another visa to replace it or would you love money and have to start all over again for a visa?

4 hours ago, Pib said:

You may have got that 43K number from some Elite/Privilege visa news article/advertisement where they have talked about having over 40K active members.  And somewhere in my brain cells I seem to remember one article using the 43K number.    The Elite visa program has been in existence since 2003 and according to some other stats new members over past two to three years have been predominately been from mainland China with around 45% of new Elite members being of Chinese nationality.  The Elite visa program has got a lot of attention this year from the Thai govt due to some grey business operations in Thailand being tied to Chinese with Elite visas....supposedly Elite visa background checks now take longer due the Thai govt doing more thorough background checks on applicants.

 

Buy anyway back to LTR visa stats, my earlier post below has the latest LTR stats (as of 31 Aug 2025) from the BOI LTR Facebook page. 

 

I think you are right - it was probably the Elite Visa - and the Govt have finally realised that the scammers and criminals can afford to pay for that Visa to enable their comings and goings.   

 

I just checked the BOI facebook site and they now say they have 7000 applications for LTR.  I think the translation actually means 7000 approved - but I do not know for sure - the wife is not sure either. 

I looked at the LTR pensioner, however i have no faith in a 10 year visa that requires a review after 5 years who knows what garbage they could conjour up and blame a higher authority for any changes, i had an O-X visa and that is exactly what happened to me, the only positive is that LTR is done by the BOI rather than immigration, 

53 minutes ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Live your life and let others live theirs. Dont preach.

That is my advice to you in return. 

I don't preach. Just pointed out your incoherence. I understand now your decisions based on hope are deliberate. You do you.

2 hours ago, TroubleandGrumpy said:

I think you are right - it was probably the Elite Visa - and the Govt have finally realised that the scammers and criminals can afford to pay for that Visa to enable their comings and goings.   

 

I just checked the BOI facebook site and they now say they have 7000 applications for LTR.  I think the translation actually means 7000 approved - but I do not know for sure - the wife is not sure either. 

As I mentioned before for whatever technical/legal reason(s) BOI uses the word "endorsed" for an approved LTR application.....that's why BOI stats talk "endorsed" applications vs approved applications.   

 

"Maybe" the reason BOI uses the word "endorsed" when they notify you that your application has been approved for issue of an LTR visa is because after you get the endorsement document you then need to take a few more steps to have the LTR visa issued.  You have 60 days to take these steps otherwise the endorsement letter expires and your must start to zero with a new LTR application.  

 

The steps are basically come to BOI Immigration in Bangkok to pay the LTR issue fee of Bt50K, fill out just a few simple immigration forms, and then BOI Immigration stamps the visa into your passport....it takes about an hour within immigration.     Or, if you are not going to visit BOI immigration to pay the fee/get the visa issued then you submit for an LTR visa on the evisa system where you also pay the fee.  On the evisa system you are not really applying hoping for LTR approval because you submit the endorsement letter from BOI and that ensures the evisa system issues the LTR visa via is an approval doc/email they tell you to keep in your passport.  

2 hours ago, howerde said:

I looked at the LTR pensioner, however i have no faith in a 10 year visa that requires a review after 5 years who knows what garbage they could conjour up and blame a higher authority for any changes, i had an O-X visa and that is exactly what happened to me, the only positive is that LTR is done by the BOI rather than immigration, 

What changed on your OX visa? 

2 hours ago, Photoguy21 said:

Trouble with these types of visas is that the rules can change overnight. If the concept was cancelled would you get another visa to replace it or would you love money and have to start all over again for a visa?

Rules can change quickly on any type of visa....rules can change on almost any program.   

 

Now so far the rule changes on the LTR visas have all been good in lessening some of the requirements for some of the visa types "unlike" how some rules on the Non OA visa changed in 2019 and 2021 requiring health insurance/increased amount of insurance.  

On 7/9/2022 at 12:56 AM, ukrules said:

Because it changes nothing for those affected, absolutely nothing - except perhaps the name printed on the piece of paper that goes into the passport.

 

 

suggest you view the benefits of the LTR for a pensioner versus a retirement O or OA.  I no longer need to do yearly requirements nor provide proof of meeting the same requirements, no 90-day reports at all, one time payment, in and out of the country without needing any further documentation nor pay for re-entry.  No more bank statements needed to be obtained. easy into immigration upon return to country.

5 minutes ago, Pib said:

What changed on your OX visa? 

At the 5 year renewal, i had every document issued since i was issued with it, at CW they sent me away 5 times saying they could not do it, come back later, they had no written rules on what was needed. they just said come back, i started with 6 months left, i tried every visa agent in Bangkok that i could find, they all came back after a few days and said no it can not be done. on my last visit 1 month before it expired, the IO went and came back with a supervisor, my partner and her talked in Thai, and just said leave the country come back visa exempt and apply non o. you will not need insurance but helpfully said the money in my account could be used towrds the 800 000 required, i was annoyed 3 million kept for 5 years earning about 1% less tax, expensive insurance, to cap it all when i came back the IO said why not extend your O-X for another 5 years lol, i think she felt a bit sorry for me as my non o was done very quickly

2 minutes ago, howerde said:

At the 5 year renewal, i had every document issued since i was issued with it, at CW they sent me away 5 times saying they could not do it, come back later, they had no written rules on what was needed. they just said come back, i started with 6 months left, i tried every visa agent in Bangkok that i could find, they all came back after a few days and said no it can not be done. on my last visit 1 month before it expired, the IO went and came back with a supervisor, my partner and her talked in Thai, and just said leave the country come back visa exempt and apply non o. you will not need insurance but helpfully said the money in my account could be used towrds the 800 000 required, i was annoyed 3 million kept for 5 years earning about 1% less tax, expensive insurance, to cap it all when i came back the IO said why not extend your O-X for another 5 years lol, i think she felt a bit sorry for me as my non o was done very quickly

Well that sucks.   Doesn’t sound like any rule change but immigration simply not knowing how to handle an OX visa.   

 

Did you do the required annual OX visa review at immigration? 

 

I've seen a few posts over the years of OX visa holders going to immigration for the annual review and immigration did not really know what they should do according to the visa holder as  OX visa holders were a rare bird...rarely seen.  But you are the first I've heard of in not being able to get the 2nd 5 year permitted to stay stamp.

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Well that sucks.   Doesn’t sound like any rule change but immigration simply not knowing how to handle an OX visa.   

 

Did you do the required annual OX visa review at immigration? 

 

I've seen a few posts over the years of OX visa holders going to immigration for the annual review and immigration did not really know what they should do according to the visa holder as  OX visa holders were a rare bird...rarely seen.  But you are the first I've heard of in not being able to get the 2nd 5 year permitted to stay stamp.

Yes reported yearly, it did seem they did not really know what to do just stapled a bit of paper in the passport with the next report date, as this was CW i had expected them to be a bit more on the ball, i did post it on an immigration site and the moderator said he had never heard of anyone getting the second 5 years, the one thing my partner did say when we left was that the supervisor told her that i would unlikley to be able to get health insurance the following year, maybe the O-X was going to be got rid of

4 minutes ago, howerde said:

Yes reported yearly, it did seem they did not really know what to do just stapled a bit of paper in the passport with the next report date, as this was CW i had expected them to be a bit more on the ball, i did post it on an immigration site and the moderator said he had never heard of anyone getting the second 5 years, the one thing my partner did say when we left was that the supervisor told her that i would unlikley to be able to get health insurance the following year, maybe the O-X was going to be got rid of

How would an immigration know whether or not you would be able to get health insurance for the following year?

5 hours ago, jayboy said:

 

Frankly the financial requirements for the LTR wealthy pensioner category are not very demanding either.Passive income of $ 80,000 is easily within the scope of many middle class retired professionals.Given that there are also significant tax advantages, this must be the optimal retirement visa going and anyone qualifying should go for it.The health insurance requirement is reasonable too.

 

I agree here.   

 

One does not need to be a billionaire to meet such requirements.  Nor does one need to be a billionaire to have $100k US$ in a foreign savings bank account earning 4% interest.  One of means (without achieving billionaire status) can easily afford to only receive 4% on $100k US$ and not have it irritate them that they are not getting the 12% that perhaps the stock market might yield for them otherwise.  I suspect there are some of means with multiple accounts with that amount of money inside each account - and the lost income from not having the money invested elsewhere, relative to their other financial holdings, means that amount not earned does not matter to them.

 

I do sense annoyance thou, of those who barely meet the LTR-WP/WGC requirements, where for them to meet the BoI financial requirements would require a financial restructuring that would cost them money that was important to them.  Hence they choose this shortfall of finances on their part,  to use it as a springboard to bad mouth the LTR-WP/WGC visas.

 

 While I sympathize, this is a BoI decision as to the LTR-WP/WGC financial (including Health Insurance) requirements, and there are many us (7,000 expats or so), all endorsed for the LTR visa (where I note the largest group are LTR-WP). Those endorsed for the LTR visa likely have had no issue with meeting the Health Insurance requirements. 

 

Fortunately Thailand has the Type-O visa , and while (due to Type-0 90-day reporting and yearly re-proof of fiances) it is not IMHO as convenient as the LTR-WP, the Type-O never the less, has far less financial requirements,  and it is a very good Visa for many. 

 

As I posted before, many of my expat friends are on this Type-O visa, and have been successfully renewing their permission to stay in Thailand every year for more than a decade. Some for more than 2 decades.  And I am happy for them.

 

 

5 hours ago, jayboy said:

One possible fly in the ointment in the future is the beady eyes of other government departments on the BOI's involvement - since immigration is not their responsibility.It's one thing for BOI to co-ordinate immigration status for companies/individuals bringing significant investment into the country, quite another when it's just reasonably well off pensioners.It wouldn't surprise me if this anomaly was dealt with in the future.But for now "wealthy pensioner" is an excellent option.

 

That's always a possibility.  Although given BoI recent claim that LTR visa holders (~7,000) have brought 24 billion Thai Baht to the Thai economy, I suspect BoI will attempt to maintain the LTR, for at least another decade. 

 

Actually 24-billion divide by 7,000 is not that much (only 3.43-million per LTR holder ... which is only ~$107,000 US$.  A pretty small amount considering this is a visa for people of means.

 

I think many of us (thinking of myself as an example) have brought in a lot more into Thailand than that 3.43-million baht figure (just my Thai condo without my investments is > 8x that amount of 3.43-million - I also debated buying a couple of more condos in the same complex, but I concluded it was too many eggs in one basket - and that was my mistake and my loss not doing such - as I would have made ~7-million THB off of each additional condo I purchased, had I purchased such).

 

But I can't predict the future - in the future there could be completely different types of Visas available, and we will need to see how it unfolds.

 

I suspect thou, what ever the future bring, those of us ( ~7,000) who have had our LTR visas endorsed, will be able to meet any new Thai visa requirements that the future brings.  Unfortunately, those of less means, may have more difficulty. That, sadly, often tends to be the way things work in this world.  For myself, I am grateful to be one of the 7,000.

 

And for my friends, I am grateful there is the Type-O visa. 

 

Best wishes to all on this thread, and I hope you obtain a visa that suits your financial situation without any annoyance on your part.

.

49 minutes ago, Pib said:

How would an immigration know whether or not you would be able to get health insurance for the following year?

Either she just made it up(she was a much younger supervisor) or she was expecting a change to immigration rules it would not surprise me if they simply got rid of it, she did say that the retiremnet visa system was going to change and it was going to be simpler! this was late 2024 and there was a cabinet reshuffle. guess we will find out at some point

7 hours ago, jayboy said:

It's one thing for BOI to co-ordinate immigration status for companies/individuals bringing significant investment into the country, quite another when it's just reasonably well off pensioners.

 

I suspect that's exactly why they publish these rather fantastical statistics on how much money LTR holders are bringing into the country - it helps justify the idea that the program is attracting "investment".

 

2 hours ago, Pib said:

As I mentioned before for whatever technical/legal reason(s) BOI uses the word "endorsed" for an approved LTR

 

I believe that legally only Immigration or MFA can "approve" a visa application, so they came up with the word "endorsed" instead. Since 100% of "endorsed" applications end up being "approved", though - given that immigration already signed off on them during the endorsement process - it turns out to be a distinction without a difference.

1 hour ago, khunjeff said:

 

I suspect that's exactly why they publish these rather fantastical statistics on how much money LTR holders are bringing into the country - it helps justify the idea that the program is attracting "investment".

 

 

With respect, if you calculate through the numbers,  LTR visa holders (~7,000) bringing in 24-billion Thai Baht to the Thai economy, the number equates to only ~$100,000 USD equivalent per LTR visa, which is a pretty small number for one of means.   Not fantastical at all.

 

28 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

 

With respect, if you calculate through the numbers,  LTR visa holders (~7,000) bringing in 24-billion Thai Baht to the Thai economy, the number equates to only ~$100,000 USD equivalent per LTR visa, which is a pretty small number for one of means.   Not fantastical at all.

 

 

 

Yeap...I expect BOI calculates X-amount of LTR holders will buy residences, buy a car (or two), spend X-amount per year on their life style (whatever that might be), spend on this-and-that, maybe invest in a business, etc., which could easily work out to around an "average" of around $100K US per year over the 10 year LTR visa time frame especially if the person buys a residence during his 10 year LTR visa.   

 

And they probably use some economic "multiplier" of how each $1 spend results in X-amount in other economic activity...like maybe each $1 spent results in $3 in economic activity as the money flows thru the economy.  

On 9/17/2025 at 6:57 PM, oldcpu said:

…My European global health insurance covers me as a resident anywhere in the world EXCEPT USA and EXCEPT Canada…

 

I live in Europe and am interested in this type of European global health insurance. Would you be be so kind as to post the name of the insurance company you are using?

9 minutes ago, Maestro said:

 

I live in Europe and am interested in this type of European global health insurance. Would  you be be so kind as to post the name of the insurance company you are using?

 

https://www.cignaglobal.com/

 

I think it fair to say its a bit on the expensive side.  

 

As noted my former employer subsidizes mine such that i pay no more than that of a 65-year old. This is part of a pension package perk.

 

I have not yet used it for the LTR, but one of our active forum members has obtained a letter from Cigna that was satisifactory for BoI to meet the LTR visa requirements.  My understanding is that they had to contact Cigna and request specific wording in the letter.

12 minutes ago, oldcpu said:

https://www.cignaglobal.com/

 

I think it fair to say its a bit on the expensive side…

 

Thank you very much. I shall look into it.

10 hours ago, jayboy said:

Frankly the financial requirements for the LTR wealthy pensioner category are not very demanding either.Passive income of $ 80,000 is easily within the scope of many middle class retired professionals.

Well, if this were true then there would be substantially more LTR visa applications and endorsements which there are not.  I think you overlook that most of the foreign pensioners in Thailand are rather poor by Western standards and the lower cost of living (apart from "female benefits") is one of the key reasons for them being in Thailand.

 

On 9/14/2025 at 12:15 PM, TroubleandGrumpy said:

Good point - thanks - I will take the google map printout with me next month.

 

Frankly I see absolutely no advantage in a marriage extension over retirement - the only thing is 400K instead of 800K. 

....

Am I missing anything? Is there something that having a marriage extension/Visa gives a person that the retirement one does not.?  

 

My apologies. I mean to reply to this post of 5 days ago ... and I did not.

 

Yes there is one BIG ADVANTAGE for some on a Type-O for reason of marriage instead of a Type-O for reason of retirement (and I am NOT talking about the 400k THB vs the 800k THB). The reason never applied to me (even thou I have a Thai wife) because I am retired.  But for those not retired, the advantage is one can apply for a work permit.   Once one has the work permit one can work.

 

Why an advantage?  There is no Visa Change Required - get the work permit and one can work in Thailand legally:   The Non-Immigrant "O" (marriage) visa holder does not typically need to change their visa to a Non-Immigrant "B" (business) visa to get the work permit. They can hold the "O" visa and the work permit concurrently as long as they 1st obtained their work permit.

 

I confess that is only what I read. I never put it to test.

 

There are others far more knowledgeable than me here, who can comment on this and advise if I have this correct.  My hope is if I have this wrong, they will correct me.

.

25 minutes ago, K2938 said:

Well, if this were true then there would be substantially more LTR visa applications and endorsements which there are not.  I think you overlook that most of the foreign pensioners in Thailand are rather poor by Western standards and the lower cost of living (apart from "female benefits") is one of the key reasons for them being in Thailand.

 

 

I note a large % of the foreigners "of means" I know in Phuket, have Thai wives.  It was not the LTR visa that attracted them to Thailand. Rather it was their 'Thai wife's turn' to live in her country, after she lived with the foreigner in the foreigners country, for many years. 

 

Also, the remaining minority of the foreigners (with Thai wives) who I know, who did not ultimately return to Thailand after living in the foreigners country, are those who have grown up children who were raised outside Thailand (in North America or Europe)  ... and they wish to continue living closer to their grown up children (in the foreign country), which means they will not return to reside in Thailand. 

8 hours ago, K2938 said:

Well, if this were true then there would be substantially more LTR visa applications and endorsements which there are not.  I think you overlook that most of the foreign pensioners in Thailand are rather poor by Western standards and the lower cost of living (apart from "female benefits") is one of the key reasons for them being in Thailand.

 

 

I actually agree with you but perhaps the implication is different from the one you suggest.On the whole successful educated Western professionals do not want to retire permanently in Thailand.Of course there are many exceptions but looking at the full picture I can well understand why the number is so small of those enrolled as LTR wealthy pensioners.The majority of farang retirees are blue collar/lower middle class - again with many exceptions.

18 hours ago, howerde said:

I looked at the LTR pensioner, however i have no faith in a 10 year visa that requires a review after 5 years who knows what garbage they could conjour up and blame a higher authority for any changes, i had an O-X visa and that is exactly what happened to me, the only positive is that LTR is done by the BOI rather than immigration, 

 

I 100% agree that the BOI's involvement is a positive.   For 30 years I had to deal with immigration and work permits on one-by-one, paper work intension, extremely time consuming, annual extensions.  I never want to go back to that system. The BOI's courtesy, professionalism and lack of corruption has made all the difference.  Plus I now have a 10 year visa, no 90 day extensions, 5 year stay that's renewable, 5 year work permit, and tax benefits. 

4 hours ago, Misty said:

 

I 100% agree that the BOI's involvement is a positive.   For 30 years I had to deal with immigration and work permits on one-by-one, paper work intension, extremely time consuming, annual extensions.  I never want to go back to that system. The BOI's courtesy, professionalism and lack of corruption has made all the difference.  Plus I now have a 10 year visa, no 90 day extensions, 5 year stay that's renewable, 5 year work permit, and tax benefits. 

I agree also. If one plans to keep living here, and can qualify for the LTR-WP visa, then the LTR is a great visa to have. Since I leave the country each year, I won't need to report back to BOI & IM for 5 years. And, the tax exemption means I won't have to deal with the TRD. Life is good. No worries.

23 hours ago, Pib said:

As I mentioned before for whatever technical/legal reason(s) BOI uses the word "endorsed" for an approved LTR application.....that's why BOI stats talk "endorsed" applications vs approved applications.   

 

"Maybe" the reason BOI uses the word "endorsed" when they notify you that your application has been approved for issue of an LTR visa is because after you get the endorsement document you then need to take a few more steps to have the LTR visa issued.  You have 60 days to take these steps otherwise the endorsement letter expires and your must start to zero with a new LTR application.  

 

The steps are basically come to BOI Immigration in Bangkok to pay the LTR issue fee of Bt50K, fill out just a few simple immigration forms, and then BOI Immigration stamps the visa into your passport....it takes about an hour within immigration.     Or, if you are not going to visit BOI immigration to pay the fee/get the visa issued then you submit for an LTR visa on the evisa system where you also pay the fee.  On the evisa system you are not really applying hoping for LTR approval because you submit the endorsement letter from BOI and that ensures the evisa system issues the LTR visa via is an approval doc/email they tell you to keep in your passport.  

I think that BOI 'endorsed' means they have received all the documents and have determined that the applicant meets the requirements.  The BOI then send the 'endorsed' application to the relevant Thai Dept/s to approve the application - they dont actually control approval.  When they are advised that the applicant is approved they then send the applicant a notification letter, and they then have 60 days to pay and complete whatever other documents are needed. If the Dept/s requests further details or information, then they get BOI to obtain it. If the Dept/s reject the application, then BOI advises the applicant. 

 

So I think the BOI has 'endorsed' 7000 applications - but probably most were approved - and most taken up when notified. Maybe - maybe not.   

On 9/19/2025 at 2:20 PM, howerde said:

I looked at the LTR pensioner, however i have no faith in a 10 year visa that requires a review after 5 years who knows what garbage they could conjour up and blame a higher authority for any changes, i had an O-X visa and that is exactly what happened to me, the only positive is that LTR is done by the BOI rather than immigration, 

I had heard that some people had the O-X, and when it was canned they lost it - but there is no media reports that I saw.  Thanks for confirmation.  Yet another reason not to get an LTR. 

On 9/19/2025 at 2:45 PM, Yumthai said:

I don't preach. Just pointed out your incoherence. I understand now your decisions based on hope are deliberate. You do you.

I hope every day - every day I drive the car or ride the bike I hope it all goes well - hope is everything. 

You can stay in bed - safer there - but if you do walk drive ride outside, I hope it all goes well.