Moto on credit agreement in arrears.

[The Fugitive]

My Thai Mrs tells me that her friend’s son was buying a moto on finance but is now unable to afford the instalments. Moto is in danger of being lifted. The moto is now at her house and she has given the lad’s Mum some money. I can’t understand whether she has given her enough to bring the instalments up-to-date or paid them off in full. My Mrs says she doesn’t need any money from me at the moment. 

 

I have no knowledge of credit agreements in Thailand apart from when my wife stood guarantor for her son when he took out an agreement to buy a second-hand moto for 200,000 baht. We had to go to his bank together with the vendor to complete paperwork.

 

I am assuming ownership of the moto transferred to the lad when he took out the credit agreement. Therefore, the bike is his to do with what he pleases. In the event of non-payment, the finance company/bank will threaten to ‘repossess’ the moto because they know it’s almost certainly the only thing of any value either he or his parent’s have.

 

I am asking what powers the finance company/bank have against his parents who are guarantors? His father has an old pick-up and a couple of Honda Waves. The house is in bad shape. If he keeps his motos inside and parks his pick-up away from his house, would he be OK to refuse them entry?

[blackcab]

44 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

I am assuming ownership of the moto transferred to the lad when he took out the credit agreement. Therefore, the bike is his to do with what he pleases.

 

Generally not. The motorbike is usually the property of the loan company, and they will retain the green title book for the bike until the finance is paid off. When, and only when, the final payment is made can the bike be transferred to the borrowers name.

 

46 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

In the event of non-payment, the finance company/bank will threaten to ‘repossess’ the moto because they know it’s almost certainly the only thing of any value either he or his parent’s have.

 

In the event of continued non payment the bike will eventually be repossessed. It will be sold at auction and the lender will then ask the borrower to repay any outstanding balance. If the borrower is unable to do this then the guarantors will be expected to repay the outstanding balance.

[The Fugitive]

7 hours ago, blackcab said:

 

Generally not. The motorbike is usually the property of the loan company, and they will retain the green title book for the bike until the finance is paid off. When, and only when, the final payment is made can the bike be transferred to the borrowers name.

 

 

In the event of continued non payment the bike will eventually be repossessed. It will be sold at auction and the lender will then ask the borrower to repay any outstanding balance. If the borrower is unable to do this then the guarantors will be expected to repay the outstanding balance.

Thanks for your reply. Sounds like my Mrs has done the right thing by hiding his bike. If she has brought his instalments up-to-date for the time being and/or pays the balance in full later there are likely to be additional fees, costs and extra interest. I don't believe in paying these. My concern is for his parents, the guarantors. But if they can't repossess the moto and the parents have nothing (and act sensibly) they won't get paid. Whether they hold onto the green book or not matters little if we use the moto ourselves and keep within our own town. We already have four motos, only one is registered to us and we pay road tax and insurance for it. One of the others remains registered to my long deceased father-in-law (for example).  

Edited July 9, 2022 by The Fugitive

[FriendlyFarang]

18 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Sounds like my Mrs has done the right thing by hiding his bike.

It's not his bike, it's the bank's bike. If the bank doesn't get paid and doesn't get the vehicle, at some point they will report it as stolen, then your Mrs is hiding stolen property, in my opinion that's not a right thing to do.

 

20 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

Whether they hold onto the green book ot not matters little if we use the moto ourselves and keep within our own town.

You won't be able to pay tax or buy insurance once it's reported as stolen. I definitely would feel nervous driving a stolen vehicle, if the driver gets somehow involved with police (accident, checkpoint...) the vehicle might get confiscated and the driver might spend some time in jail for driving a stolen vehicle.

[petermik]

Methinks your missus is being foolish........

[The Fugitive]

7 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

It's not his bike, it's the bank's bike. If the bank doesn't get paid and doesn't get the vehicle, at some point they will report it as stolen, then your Mrs is hiding stolen property, in my opinion that's not a right thing to do.

 

You won't be able to pay tax or buy insurance once it's reported as stolen. I definitely would feel nervous driving a stolen vehicle, if the driver gets somehow involved with police (accident, checkpoint...) the vehicle might get confiscated and the driver might spend some time in jail for driving a stolen vehicle.

I don't see how they could term the moto stolen if the instalments are either up-to-date or paid in full? It's my concern that we shouldn't be paying anything extra that almost certainly would get added. These financial organisations fleece people enough as it is. In my experience they don't try very hard to collect in Thailand. My sister-in-law owes a shade under three million baht to her bank. Every so often a couple of guys wearing pink shirts and ties visit asking for her whereabouts. We always tell them she is working abroad on a contract and they go away again.

[The Fugitive]

18 minutes ago, petermik said:

Methinks your missus is being foolish........

I would agree. However, her friend asked her to help and she doesn't like refusing.

[FriendlyFarang]

22 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

I don't see how they could term the moto stolen if the instalments are either up-to-date or paid in full?

If the bank gets paid they will of course not report it as stolen, but in your previous post it sounds like the plan is to not pay them.

[The Fugitive]

9 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

3 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

If the bank gets paid they will of course not report it as stolen, but in your previous post it sounds like the plan is to not pay them.

 

From my original post above; 

 

"My Thai Mrs tells me that her friend’s son was buying a moto on finance but is now unable to afford the instalments. Moto is in danger of being lifted. The moto is now at her house and she has given the lad’s Mum some money. I can’t understand whether she has given her enough to bring the instalments up-to-date or paid them off in full. My Mrs says she doesn’t need any money from me at the moment". 

 

My Mrs has 'hidden' the bike to prevent any reneging/incompetence by the finance company resulting in them lifting the moto.  

 

[KIngsofisaan]

40 minutes ago, The Fugitive said:

I don't see how they could term the moto stolen if the instalments are either up-to-date or paid in full? It's my concern that we shouldn't be paying anything extra that almost certainly would get added. These financial organisations fleece people enough as it is. In my experience they don't try very hard to collect in Thailand. My sister-in-law owes a shade under three million baht to her bank. Every so often a couple of guys wearing pink shirts and ties visit asking for her whereabouts. We always tell them she is working abroad on a contract and they go away again.

If the payments are up to date, why do you have an issue?

 

Makes no sense.

 

Finance companies don't go after people with up to date or paid off payments.

[The Fugitive]

10 minutes ago, KIngsofisaan said:

If the payments are up to date, why do you have an issue?

 

Makes no sense.

 

Finance companies don't go after people with up to date or paid off payments.

It's for the added costs, fees and extra interest that we don't like paying. The finance company may hold onto the green book until everything is paid in full. Hopefully, if they are struggling to collect and the moto is nowhere to be seen they will write off the additional amount? In the meantime, I don't want the lad's parents (the guarantors) to suffer.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

I would agree. However, her friend asked her to help and she doesn't like refusing.

Frankly here is what I would do so my wife didn't get blacklisted.

Make sure the payments are up to date and keep the bike in your pocession until the friend start paying you back. 

 

If your Mrs continues to pay because the friend cannot make sure you inform the finance company and tell them, also make sure she gets a receipt to show she is paying for the bike. 

That way your wife can have claim on the ownership of the bike when completed. 

If your wife has to keep paying for one reason or another ask for a full payment settlement that way you either keep the bike or sell while it's not old. 

 

[seedy]

2 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

I don't believe in paying these.

So ... you signed a contract, and don't believe you should be held responsible for fulfilling said contract or paying any late fees or penalties ?. Hide the bike and not pay for it = stealing

The buyer or whoever co-signs are responsible ... well, they should be.

The mind boggles

Edited July 9, 2022 by seedy

[BritManToo]

11 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

I am assuming ownership of the moto transferred to the lad when he took out the credit agreement. Therefore, the bike is his to do with what he pleases. In the event of non-payment, the finance company/bank will threaten to ‘repossess’ the moto because they know it’s almost certainly the only thing of any value either he or his parent’s have.

Ownership of the 'moto' is transferred to the Finance company.

[thailand49]

3 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

I would agree. However, her friend asked her to help and she doesn't like refusing.

This is the problem!  Some how there is a language problem between you and wife and you don't know it and certainly will shoot back something because it isn't what you want to hear. 

Why?  All you kind of know is your wife gave money to a friend?  You have no clue as to whether it was a loan to help catch up payment if that was the case there is no need to hide the bike. 

From my experience payment has been made in the pass if the load company catches up and get the bike they will auction depending on the type of of bike (scooter)?   they aren't going to spend more resources trying go after the person they understand if you can't pay for s scooter they pretty much scraping bottom. Sure <deleted> happens but let them just have it. 

Off,  topic. 200,00. Baht for a used bike interesting to know because there is a pattern?

 

[n00dle]

4 hours ago, petermik said:

Methinks your missus is being foolish........

methinks its not just the missus. Their seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of loans and collateral. Keeping a bike you neither own nor pay for and using it only around the village is essentially theft.

 

Then there is the matter of 200k for a used bike. a new ninja 400 comes in around there. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by n00dle

[LukKrueng]

5 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

It's for the added costs, fees and extra interest that we don't like paying. The finance company may hold onto the green book until everything is paid in full. Hopefully, if they are struggling to collect and the moto is nowhere to be seen they will write off the additional amount? In the meantime, I don't want the lad's parents (the guarantors) to suffer.

What extra fees are you talking about? When you buy a vehicle with a loan, the finance company shows you all details. The only extra fee above the installments is the ownership transfer fee. When you take a loan you should check all this so you know and agree. If you don't like it, don't take the loan. If your wife paid the full balance owed for the bike then all she had to add was the transfer fee and you'd get the green book with the bike registered to your wife. If she only paid to the buyer the amount he paid so far and nothing to the finance company, then she basically stole the bike from the finance company. You won't be able to pay the yearly tax without the green book and as someone already mentioned above - once it is reported stolen, you will get into trouble

[NanLaew]

The OP's narrative is a bit confusing but it seems that the 'lad' had refinanced the bike but fell behind on payments?

 

Money has been paid to bring the account current? If the finance company had been paid off in full, why would one worry about the bike being 'lifted'?

 

Maybe hiding the bike is in anticipation or expectancy for the 'lad' being unable to make on-time payments again?

 

Regardless, late payments incur fees: it's in the small print. In my limited experience, these fees are levied at the mutually fulfilled conclusion of the terms of the loan rather than arbitrarily added on the fly during the term of the loan.

Edited July 9, 2022 by NanLaew

[MrJ2U]

Just have the boy

give up the moto. 

 

Who wants to look over thier back all the time because some "boy" can't make his payment.

 

Hopefully you wife doesn't fund "friends"  who are unable to make Thier payment.

 

You'll have a line of "friend's"  in arrears stretching to the horizon. 

[brianthainess]

22 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

It's for the added costs, fees and extra interest that we don't like paying. The finance company may hold onto the green book until everything is paid in full. Hopefully, if they are struggling to collect and the moto is nowhere to be seen they will write off the additional amount? In the meantime, I don't want the lad's parents (the guarantors) to suffer.

Oh you don't like it, well tough, the longer you don't pay the more you'll owe, what do you expect. next they could sell the debt to 'collectors' woe betide you once they start turning up, they can find the debtors where ever they are.  

I should add they don't give a toss about the bike it's the MONEY they want.

Edited July 10, 2022 by brianthainess

[The Fugitive]

On 7/9/2022 at 5:26 AM, Kwasaki said:

Frankly here is what I would do so my wife didn't get blacklisted.

Make sure the payments are up to date and keep the bike in your pocession until the friend start paying you back. 

 

If your Mrs continues to pay because the friend cannot make sure you inform the finance company and tell them, also make sure she gets a receipt to show she is paying for the bike. 

That way your wife can have claim on the ownership of the bike when completed. 

If your wife has to keep paying for one reason or another ask for a full payment settlement that way you either keep the bike or sell while it's not old. 

 

Thanks very much. Forward thinking indeed. I didn't realise such things were possible. 

[The Fugitive]

23 hours ago, thailand49 said:

This is the problem!  Some how there is a language problem between you and wife and you don't know it and certainly will shoot back something because it isn't what you want to hear. 

Why?  All you kind of know is your wife gave money to a friend?  You have no clue as to whether it was a loan to help catch up payment if that was the case there is no need to hide the bike. 

From my experience payment has been made in the pass if the load company catches up and get the bike they will auction depending on the type of of bike (scooter)?   they aren't going to spend more resources trying go after the person they understand if you can't pay for s scooter they pretty much scraping bottom. Sure <deleted> happens but let them just have it. 

Off,  topic. 200,00. Baht for a used bike interesting to know because there is a pattern?

 

'Food for thought' in your words of wisdom. Thanks very much.

[The Fugitive]

23 hours ago, n00dle said:

methinks its not just the missus. Their seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of loans and collateral. Keeping a bike you neither own nor pay for and using it only around the village is essentially theft.

 

Then there is the matter of 200k for a used bike. a new ninja 400 comes in around there. 

Thanks. Yes, I agree. I have no experience either in U.K. or abroad of deferred credit sale agreements and what happens if you don't/can't maintain the instalments. Also, I agree that 200,000 baht seems excessive for a used moto. 

[The Fugitive]

20 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

What extra fees are you talking about? When you buy a vehicle with a loan, the finance company shows you all details. The only extra fee above the installments is the ownership transfer fee. When you take a loan you should check all this so you know and agree. If you don't like it, don't take the loan. If your wife paid the full balance owed for the bike then all she had to add was the transfer fee and you'd get the green book with the bike registered to your wife. If she only paid to the buyer the amount he paid so far and nothing to the finance company, then she basically stole the bike from the finance company. You won't be able to pay the yearly tax without the green book and as someone already mentioned above - once it is reported stolen, you will get into trouble

Sound advice, many thanks. I don't know how long the instalments have been overdue or what, if any, recovery action has already taken place. I didn't know about the ownership transfer fee. Sure, it depends who has received the money my Mrs gave, either the friend's son (or his Mum) or if they paid it over to the finance company. 

[The Fugitive]

18 hours ago, NanLaew said:

The OP's narrative is a bit confusing but it seems that the 'lad' had refinanced the bike but fell behind on payments?

 

Money has been paid to bring the account current? If the finance company had been paid off in full, why would one worry about the bike being 'lifted'?

 

Maybe hiding the bike is in anticipation or expectancy for the 'lad' being unable to make on-time payments again?

 

Regardless, late payments incur fees: it's in the small print. In my limited experience, these fees are levied at the mutually fulfilled conclusion of the terms of the loan rather than arbitrarily added on the fly during the term of the loan.

Thank you for clarifying. My Mrs may be confusing ownership transfer fees with 'late payment fees' which might not yet have been added?

[The Fugitive]

16 hours ago, MrJ2U said:

Just have the boy

give up the moto. 

 

Who wants to look over thier back all the time because some "boy" can't make his payment.

 

Hopefully you wife doesn't fund "friends"  who are unable to make Thier payment.

 

You'll have a line of "friend's"  in arrears stretching to the horizon. 

Spot on advice! There is a very true saying; 'Neither a borrower nor a lender be'. My Mrs claims it's my fault for being a falang, everyone assumes she's loaded.

[scorecard]

On 7/9/2022 at 9:16 AM, The Fugitive said:

I don't see how they could term the moto stolen if the instalments are either up-to-date or paid in full? It's my concern that we shouldn't be paying anything extra that almost certainly would get added. These financial organisations fleece people enough as it is. In my experience they don't try very hard to collect in Thailand. My sister-in-law owes a shade under three million baht to her bank. Every so often a couple of guys wearing pink shirts and ties visit asking for her whereabouts. We always tell them she is working abroad on a contract and they go away again.

I don't see how you can 'insist' that you won't pay any additional charges. There's a good chance (especially if the loan is from a bank or proper finance institution), that the extra charges are well detailed in the loan agreement. Therefore you can't stop them adding extra charges.

 

Beware that your insistence to not pay 'extra charges' doesn't get you into some further legal bother.

 

Be realistic, if the extra charges are laid out in the contract you've got perhaps a 1% chance (or less) of any negotiation. Banks see such loans as highly profitable (if all goes well) but most banks don't see such loans as their primary way of making money, therefore they limit the amount of time and resources they put into any loans 'gone wrong'.  

[The Fugitive]

On 7/9/2022 at 5:35 AM, BritManToo said:

Ownership of the 'moto' is transferred to the Finance company.

Thank you. I was getting confused between a credit sale agreement and a conditional credit sale agreement.

[The Fugitive]

13 minutes ago, scorecard said:

I don't see how you can 'insist' that you won't pay any additional charges. There's a good chance (especially if the loan is from a bank or proper finance institution), that the extra charges are well detailed in the loan agreement. Therefore you can't stop them adding extra charges.

 

Beware that your insistence to not pay 'extra charges' doesn't get you into some further legal bother.

 

Be realistic, if the extra charges are laid out in the contract you've got perhaps a 1% chance (or less) of any negotiation. Banks see such loans as highly profitable (if all goes well) but most banks don't see such loans as their primary way of making money, therefore they limit the amount of time and resources they put into any loans 'gone wrong'.  

Thank you. I agree. The late payment fees (if that's what they are) will probably have to be paid sooner or later. It seems to be the 'Thai Way' to try to haggle. It isn't worth getting into further legal trouble which will incur additional costs.  

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, The Fugitive said:

Thanks very much. Forward thinking indeed. I didn't realise such things were possible. 

Hope things work out many Thais wives have big hearts with trying help. ????