Is this being racist?

[Kinnock]

Was your colleague from Turkey?  It's a well known fact that everyone in Turkey has a big nose.

[Iamfalang]

If he's creating a bad work environment, you need to protect yourself from such negativity and the future of the company.

 

Imagine if he met a top client and said, "Hey, your nose is big, you are from....!!"  This is unacceptable in 2022.   

 

This is the beginning.  

 

Imagine what he doesn't say, or will say after he's more comfortable.

 

fight the good fight, get him fired!!!!

 

He has badmouthed millions from a particular place, and finds it funny.

 

You must help those who cannot help themselves.  

 

Imagine if you started insulting him........................

 

I'm deeply offended, he's setting a bad example for kids worldwide.

 

I want him fired by end of day!!!!

[GammaGlobulin]

Years ago in Asia, I brushed with racist toothpaste. 

 

It got my teeth sparkling white. 

 

My teeth even had a shine. 

[newnative]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

It was not anti-Semitic, the person he was referring to was neither a Jew, nor from Israel.

     It wasn't racist, either, in my opinion--unless Big Nose is a new race or ethnicity I haven't heard of.  I would call it offensive, along the same lines as saying, "You're really fat so I guess you are from the USA."  I don't think telling someone they are fat is racist, either.  So, a comment about weight or having a big nose, offensive in my book, but not racist.

    I know many are of the opinion that the word' racist' can now be used for all sorts of non-racial offenses--we saw it bandied about with the debate on dual pricing.  Thailand was being racist.   In reality, Thailand was being nationalistic, favoring their citizens with lower prices than non-citizens.   It might be considered discrimination by some but it's not racial discrimination--unless specific races or ethnicities were singled out for separate pricing among the non-Thais. 

     But, people are lazy with language and we now have 'racist' applied to just about everything remotely offensive.  Discounts for seniors are racist against the rest of us who aren't yet old--dual pricing of any sort is, apparently, always racist.  Casting a non-gay actor to play a gay character is now racist.  But, apparently, not yet racist to cast a gay actor to play a straight character.  Or, a Black actor to play a White historical character--still ok.  Racist to cast a non-Latino to play Castro.  But, apparently not racist to cast a Mexican to play Portuguese explorer Magellan.  Racist to cast an able-bodied actor to play any part involving a disability.   A bit dizzying keeping track.

     Easy to see the popularity of using, and misusing, the 'R' word.  Doesn't being called 'racist' sound so much more condemning than other, more appropriate words, like, say, nationalistic.  Calling someone a sexist is now much too tame.  Not enough impact.  No, they are now a racist.  They've been upgraded to a new level of disdain, however inaccurate.   In my opinion, applying 'racist' and 'racism' to everything offensive lessens the impact of behavior, by individuals or entities,  that is truly being racist in the original meaning of the word.  

[Kinnock]

Doesn't the original post have a whiff of racism about it?  No mention of the country of origin of the person receiving the insult, but the protagonist was specifically named as a German.

 

So isn't there some underlying assumptions about Germanic people in the OP?  

 

I sport a rather large nose myself, and some Thai friends have made comments about it, but that never struck .e as racism, but when a German makes the comment it's somehow racism.

 

Stereotyping, yes, rude, probably, but racist - no.

 

[3STTW]

There are a lot of small-town people who haven't been out much who share a similar attitude. It's not exactly racist - more ignorance than anything sinister.

 

There are a lot of people of that age who find modern attitudes towards race (and sexuality) extremely confusing, and are often bewildered why people are so <deleted> sensitive these days. Many of them don't realize that their light-hearted banter can be construed as racist behavior.

 

It's probably important to remember that there's a huge difference between a flag waving Alt-right Nazi and an old town-mouse with an anachronistic outlook.

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, Sparktrader said:

 

 

Aussies are amongst the rudest people.

"Ava go.ya mug"!  Not rude just telling you its your shout!! ????

[NanLaew]

No racism was implied her nor inferred. The guy in question is what we call an oaf or maybe dolt is more appropriate? Hitting on and flirting with female staff is doltish behavior, especially if it's not being reciprocated. In his own mind, he's probably a big star in NEP already. He's probably too arrogant and ignorant to appreciate that the Thai woman's smile, eyes averted while shyly demuring in the face of his embarrassing public behavior is their way of politely telling him he's a dolt.

 

The OP has apparently upbraided the dolt on his rude and inappropriate behavior and he's 'on watch' now. However, if he persists, and since he's German, maybe the OP should talk loudly about the war? He may even quit and then everyone can get back to work.

[Jingthing]

Hmm.

This topic is kind of fun and loaded as heck.

The German gentleman sounds like he lacks social finesse but it's impossible to know his intentions from that comment. If I was a manager I would take no action.

 

But going deeper there is

some level of reality behind many superficial ethnic physical characteristics. 

 

Many things such as skin  color, nose shapes and sizes, lip thickness, head shapes, hair texture and on and on.

 

Race might not be real except as a social construct but racism is real and so is diversity of superficial ethnic physical characteristics. These types of differences are a teeny tiny part of our genetic codes 

 

Having one sort of hair texture rather than another isn't inferior or superior but can make a person stand out if a minority.

 

I have a lot of exposure to Ethiopian and Eritrean people. As a rough generality I can tell them from other Africans just by looking.

 

On meeting such a person I might ask if they're Ethiopian. Is that racist? I don't think so.

 

As a Jew I have some typical Ashhkenazi physical characteristics but not a particularly big schnoz.  When I visited Deutschland as a teen and even visiting German

restaurants in Thailand I felt a little uncomfortable about standing out. Can they tell the Juden? Which of them especially the older ones are Nazis?

 

There was even a scary incident in a small Austrian town at a restaurant where we were getting shockingly bad service actually no service at all. My group all 15 year olds two Jews and ane swarthy  Italian with curly hair and a very big nose started laughing about the situation and even undiplomaticly uterred the slur krauts. Well oops the old Austrians heard us and things started to get ugly

with them cursing Amerikaners. We never did get served there. Yeah luckily I guess they didn't read us as Jews but they were obviously old Nazis so being American was bad enough.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Kinnock said:

Was your colleague from Turkey?  It's a well known fact that everyone in Turkey has a big nose.

Are you joking? Have you been to Turkiye?

[jesimps]

Oh for the days when name calling was allowed and people weren't walking around on eggshells. The names we used to call each other in the British Army are unprintable, you just thought of something more insulting to call them back.

These days I can probably be be done for condoning it.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by jesimps

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, 3STTW said:

There are a lot of small-town people who haven't been out much who share a similar attitude. It's not exactly racist - more ignorance than anything sinister.

 

There are a lot of people of that age who find modern attitudes towards race (and sexuality) extremely confusing, and are often bewildered why people are so <deleted> sensitive these days. Many of them don't realize that their light-hearted banter can be construed as racist behavior.

 

It's probably important to remember that there's a huge difference between a flag waving Alt-right Nazi and an old town-mouse with an anachronistic outlook.

That's an assessment that I can broadly agree with. The term racist is bandied about far too cavalierly these days.

[Dart12]

Racist?  no.
Stereotyping? Probably.  But really, those are around because they typically are true.

Opinion?  People are too thin skinned now.

Germans Intent?  Sounds like he is condescending and innapropriate to everyone.  What the heck does a person's physical appearance got to do with working relationship in an office (unless it's hygene).

Old solution:  De-dress the Know-it-all in front of everyone until made to feel the way he's made others feel
New solution: give him his write up for driving conversations down non-productive avenues.  IF if irks everyone, he's gone.

Exception:  He's brilliant genius that soars profits, then you sweep under rug and take it for the good of the team lol.  30 years later when he's of no use anymore and an old man, defame him and strip him of all glory with a metoo like movement.

[Kinnock]

37 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Are you joking? Have you been to Turkiye?

Yes ..... and yes I'm joking ????

[Lucky Bones]

On 8/22/2022 at 2:06 PM, Bert got kinky said:

 

Were Monty Python racists or serial stereo-typers?

 

 

"Blessed are the Cheesemakers".

[TKDfella]

On 8/22/2022 at 2:52 PM, worgeordie said:

I suppose this will be banned .....too many complaints from people with noses ......????

regards Worgeordie

I have a large nose and it's a good one too. I get a whiff of odours before others around me.???? But my Dad had even bigger nose, one of those people called a 'Roman nose'...whoops...have I just written racist words?

[IvorBiggun2]

.

 

Edited August 23, 2022 by IvorBiggun2

[OneMoreFarang]

On 8/22/2022 at 1:38 PM, problemfarang said:

what you guys think... thanks

I think that many of us can guess where people come from just by looking at them. Obviously we are not always correct. But if a German, a Brit and an American are in front of me, without saying anything, I think there is a good chance that I can guess who is who. And many others will be able to do the same.

 

Now, is it a good idea to say this openly in a conversation? I guess if I tell someone "you look like a Brit" then that is probably not really a problem. But if a German tells someone "you look like a Jew" then this is more problematic...

 

Personally I think relative few people are really racist in a bad way, like "all black people are bad" or something similar. Often we just describe what we see or experience. I.e. I could say: I see many black guys near Soi 3 and 5. Some of them offered to sell drugs to me. Is that racist? Or just an observation?

 

IMHO only make an issue out of it if it is clearly racist.

And maybe give the new guy a little time to get used to Thailand and many nationalities - at least if he is qualified and you want to keep him.

[IvorBiggun2]

Monkey see, monkey do. Is that racist?

[1FinickyOne]

On 8/22/2022 at 2:06 PM, Bert got kinky said:

 

Were Monty Python racists or serial stereo-typers?

 

 

sure, sounds like it from the caption... but back then it was more accepted as humor - now it crosses the line... not easy for a comedian anymore - the lines keep changing... but at least now if you don't like a comment at the academy awards, you can slap around the presenter... I think before you couldn't legally b-slap the master of ceremonies... 

[1FinickyOne]

9 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Monkey see, monkey do. Is that racist?

if you are talking about black people, probably, unless you are a black person, then it is probably ok - it gets confusing to leave the house... 

[1FinickyOne]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

but not a particularly big schnoz. 

that is your Thai side... 

[IvorBiggun2]

2 minutes ago, 1FinickyOne said:

if you are talking about black people, probably, unless you are a black person, then it is probably ok - it gets confusing to leave the house... 

This is the probs. I answered a question tuther week regarding why Thais seem to copy other Thais. I put it down to Monkey see, monkey do and had my post deleted due to being racist.

 

Quote

 

Monkey See, Monkey Do is a saying that originated in Jamaica in the early 18th century and popped up in American culture in the early 1920s. The saying refers to learning something by mimicry, without understanding why it works or concerned about the consequences.

 

Who decides what's racist?

[Thingamabob]

I think not racist. Sometimes German humour can be very basic. Personal comments and banana-skin type jokes abound. Not to be taken too seriously in my opinion.

 

[ozimoron]

8 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Who decides what's racist?

People who are offended.

[OneMoreFarang]

I just read all the comments in this thread and somehow I think it's funny that almost everybody here pretends they would never ever do such thing.

But when we read here about Arabs racing with motorcycles or Chinese misbehaving many agree that those Arabs and those Chinese are the bad guys.

Does that mean it's ok to say bad things about i.e. Chinese but it's not ok to say something bad about Israelis? Or is it only bad if a German does those things?

 

IMHO many of us need(ed) some time to get used to Thailand and used to working with many nationalities and cultures. And many of us also had to get used to lots of pretty girls in offices who smile a lot. And we had to learn that even if they smile at us that doesn't mean they want to go out with us.

Personally I think what would have happened maybe 20 years ago? Would he have received a written warning? Would he have received an explicit verbal warning? Or would have someone talked to him colleague to colleague and explain to him that certain behavior is not such a good idea?

Why not try to remind him in a friendly way first and use only warnings if it is really necessary?

[habuspasha]

It would not be racist to say that Thais generally have smaller noses than Brits.  It is not racist to recognize physical differences in populations based on where in the world they or their ancestors come from. Racism is the assumption that these physical differences indicate mental or behavioral differences that are immutable, i.e., that "race" is identity.

[NanLaew]

14 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

23 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Who decides what's racist?

People who are offended.

Which is agreeable when the people specifically being offended speak of being offended.

 

The OP has already verified that the person accused of being well endowed in the nasal department by the oafish new employee wasn't offended... but the OP considers that he should be?

 

The dictionary of new-fangled malapropisms calls that 'woke', no?

[Sparktrader]

5 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Which is agreeable when the people specifically being offended speak of being offended.

 

The OP has already verified that the person accused of being well endowed in the nasal department by the oafish new employee wasn't offended... but the OP considers that he should be?

 

The dictionary of new-fangled malapropisms calls that 'woke', no?

Happens all the time. Western thing. Being offended on behalf of someone else.

[rwill]

I don't think saying something like, "You look like you are from (fill in the blank)."  is racist.