TM86?

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

I think you're just being silly now. on ignore, peace out. 

+1

[Norlund]

12 minutes ago, Lemsta69 said:

I think you're just being silly now. on ignore, peace out. 

The heading says "Change Of Visa" and you think I am "silly" because I can read and understand what it says? 

[Norlund]

24 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Strange that every day people obtain a non O from a tourist visa entry. 

Clearly you are playing games.

If you really want guidelines of how to obtain a non O from tourist visa entry ....then ask.

 

 

It seems like you do not get my point. And the point is that many foreigners in Thailand say that you loose your visa the moment you pass the passport control. And IFF so is true how can you change from a tourist visa to a Non Immigrant Visa at the Immigration Office.

IFF you say that you DO NOT loose your tourist visa and you have one when you fill out form TM86 I will agree with you. Because that is the only logical explanation. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Norlund

[Caldera]

1 hour ago, Norlund said:

There is a form TM86 you fill out when you want to change a tourist visa to a Non Immigrant Visa. The problem is that "every one" tells me that I loose my tourist visa when I leave the passport controll when I arrive to Thailand. Which means I DO NOT HAVE a tourist visa I can change at the Immigration Office 2 month later. And that doesn't make any sense. 

Since we're splitting hair: You don't "lose" a single-entry visa upon entry, it's just stamped "used", which means that you cannot enter with it again. It does not mean that you cannot extend your stay or apply for a non-immigrant visa, if you qualify.

[Norlund]

I found the answer to my question on the Immigration Office website. And it states clearly that you NEED to have a visa. 

"1.1 Form TM.86 for the foreigner, who has Tourist or Transit Visa and want to applies for a change of type of visa (from Tourist Visa or Transit Visa to Non-Immigrant Visa);"

https://www.immigration.go.th/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/9.FOR-RETIREMENT-PURPOSES-50-YEARS-OLD-NON-O.pdf

[Norlund]

4 minutes ago, Caldera said:

Since we're splitting hair: You don't "lose" a single-entry visa upon entry, it's just stamped "used", which means that you cannot enter with it again. It does not mean that you cannot extend your stay or apply for a non-immigrant visa, if you qualify.

You are not "splitting hair" at all because you are absolutly correct according to the immigration office. 

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, Norlund said:

The forms TM86 and TM87 are not the issue here. The issue is how to change a visa you do not have. 

If you're a foreigner how can you actually be in Thailand if you don't have a visa? (Unless you're on an extension or have PR?)

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, Norlund said:

found the answer to my question on the Immigration Office website. And it states clearly that you NEED to have a visa.

Please explain how many folk have obtained a non O based on retirement or marriage from visa exempt entry.

 

They never even entered Thailand with a visa.

Granted different form (TM87).

 

You really are being difficult.

The guys that posted in your thread are very experienced.

 

What are you really asking about. 

 

You do not need to have a valid visa.

For TM86 you need to show entry into Thailand with tourist visa. 

Full stop. Move on. 

 

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, scorecard said:

If you're a foreigner how can you actually be in Thailand if you don't have a visa? (Unless you're on an extension or have PR?)

Don't understand.

You can enter thailand via visa exempt entry. 

[klauskunkel]

9 hours ago, Norlund said:

I have been told over and over on FB and on fora online that you loose your visa the moment you pass the officer at the passport control. Are they all wrong?

I explain it to you;

A visa is like a new shirt. When you arrive at border control the IO looks at your shirt, the pattern, the weave and the fabric and decides whether this shirt is good enough to enter Thailand. If he lets you enter, your shirt changes its status from new to used. You are still wearing the same shirt, it's just used now, and you will wear this same shirt for your whole stay in Thailand. Some people have reason to change their shirt, maybe it became smelly after 45 days, or they are bored with it and want to try a different style, well lucky for those people there are forms that let them change their stiff-collared arrival shirts into for example more comfortable t-shirts.

I hope this clears it up for you 

[Norlund]

8 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Please explain how many folk have obtained a non O based on retirement or marriage from visa exempt entry.

 

They never even entered Thailand with a visa.

Granted different form (TM87).

 

You really are being difficult.

The guys that posted in your thread are very experienced.

 

What are you really asking about. 

 

You do not need to have a valid visa.

For TM86 you need to show entry into Thailand with tourist visa. 

Full stop. Move on. 

 

If you come to Thailand with a tourist visa and after 90 days want to stay in the country longer than these 90 days without having to leave the country, there is a form called TM86 that you can fill out and together with various other documents apply for changing a tourist visa into a Non Immigrant Visa. If you are not a magician and can remove the visa stamp and get a Visa Exemption stamp in your passport instead, you must use form TM86 NOT TM87.

 

The requirement is not that you HAD a tourist visa on arrival in Thailand and lost it when you passed the passport control, but that you actually need to have a tourist visa the moment you apply to change your visa. And this is what the Immigration Office says. Please NOTIS the word "has" NOT "had".

 

"1.1 Form TM.86 for the foreigner, who has Tourist or Transit Visa and want to applies for a change of type of visa (from Tourist Visa or Transit Visa to Non-Immigrant Visa);"

Edited November 13, 2022 by Norlund

[Norlund]

26 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

I explain it to you;

A visa is like a new shirt. When you arrive at border control the IO looks at your shirt, the pattern, the weave and the fabric and decides whether this shirt is good enough to enter Thailand. If he lets you enter, your shirt changes its status from new to used. You are still wearing the same shirt, it's just used now, and you will wear this same shirt for your whole stay in Thailand. Some people have reason to change their shirt, maybe it became smelly after 45 days, or they are bored with it and want to try a different style, well lucky for those people there are forms that let them change their stiff-collared arrival shirts into for example more comfortable t-shirts.

I hope this clears it up for you 

In other words you do NOT loose your visa (shirt) when you enter Thailand. You can change it, but not loose it. 

[Norlund]

8 hours ago, scorecard said:

If you're a foreigner how can you actually be in Thailand if you don't have a visa? (Unless you're on an extension or have PR?)

You can enter and stay in Thailand without a visa. It's called Visa Exemption. At the moment it is 45 days and probably 45 days more if you apply for an extension at the Immigration Office. If you want a longer stay than 45 + 45 days you can either apply for a change of Visa Exemption to a Non Immigrant Visa form TM87 or leave Thailand and come back again on a visa.

[scorecard]

44 minutes ago, Norlund said:

You can enter and stay in Thailand without a visa. It's called Visa Exemption. At the moment it is 45 days and probably 45 days more if you apply for an extension at the Immigration Office. If you want a longer stay than 45 + 45 days you can either apply for a change of Visa Exemption to a Non Immigrant Visa form TM87 or leave Thailand and come back again on a visa.

My mistake. I assumed visa exempt was in fact a type of visa (issued on arrival with no application etc., to folks from a list of specific countries).

 

Obviously I'm wrong, my error.

[Norlund]

18 minutes ago, scorecard said:

My mistake. I assumed visa exempt was in fact a type of visa (issued on arrival with no application etc., to folks from a list of specific countries).

 

Obviously I'm wrong, my error.

You are not really wrong because you need to have a visa to stay in Thailand apart from the Visa Extemtion. 

[LukKrueng]

11 hours ago, Norlund said:

I have been told over and over on FB and on fora online that you loose your visa the moment you pass the officer at the passport control. Are they all wrong?

You're hung on terminology. Seems like you're not really trying to understand which form to use and how, but just cling to your original question for argument sake.

I'm not an expert on the different TM forms but from all above replies I already understand that a person that enters Thailand on visa exempt has to use form A in order to change the the type\length of permit to stay and a person that enters on a tourist visa has to use form B.

As explained in earlier replies, the visa you had is not lost, but used, meaning if you exit Thailand and enter again you won't be able to use that visa. But your permit to stay is based on the visa you have (or lack of).

[Norlund]

7 minutes ago, LukKrueng said:

You're hung on terminology. Seems like you're not really trying to understand which form to use and how, but just cling to your original question for argument sake.

I'm not an expert on the different TM forms but from all above replies I already understand that a person that enters Thailand on visa exempt has to use form A in order to change the the type\length of permit to stay and a person that enters on a tourist visa has to use form B.

As explained in earlier replies, the visa you had is not lost, but used, meaning if you exit Thailand and enter again you won't be able to use that visa. But your permit to stay is based on the visa you have (or lack of).

You DO NOT have a "permission to stay". What you have is a VISA. That is why you can change a Tourist Viso to a Non Immigrant Visa at the Immigration Office. Please read what the Immigration Office says on their website. 

[ozfarang]

10 minutes ago, Norlund said:

You DO NOT have a "permission to stay". What you have is a VISA. That is why you can change a Tourist Viso to a Non Immigrant Visa at the Immigration Office. Please read what the Immigration Office says on their website. 

if you are confused just visit an Immigration office and they will give you the correct form you need to fill in for a change of stay in Thailand.

How hard could that be?

 

If you want to continue to argue over technicalities then keep going.......

[Norlund]

20 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

if you are confused just visit an Immigration office and they will give you the correct form you need to fill in for a change of stay in Thailand.

How hard could that be?

 

If you want to continue to argue over technicalities then keep going.......

I am not confused at all. And you should not be either if you read what the Immigration Office says on their website. 

[Norlund]

When you have had a tourist visa changed to a Non Immigrant Visa at the Immigration Office you get a stamp in your passport that says "Non Immigrant" and NOT "Permision To Stay". 

 

If you believe that you lose your tourist visa and you get a "Permision To Stay", then the natural question is when will you lose this Non Immigrant Visa they gave you at the Immigration Office. Do you get a USED stamp in your passport before you go out the door to the Immigration Office or is this something that happens automatically? 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Norlund

[ozfarang]

2 minutes ago, Norlund said:

When you have had a tourist visa changed to a Non Immigrant Visa at the Immigration Office, you get a stamp in your passport that says "Non Immigrant".

 

If you do not have a visa during your stay in Thailand, but you have a "Permision To Stay", then the natural question is when will you lose this Non Immigrant Visa. Do you get a USED stamp in your passport before you go out the door to the Immigration Office or is this something that happens automatically? 

I use and agent so I don't have your problems with Immigration.

In fact I don't need to go to Immigration at all

[Norlund]

6 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

I use and agent so I don't have your problems with Immigration.

In fact I don't need to go to Immigration at all

I have lived i Thailand for 22 years and I have had a Non Immigrant Visa for the same period of time. It takes me 30-40 min. at my local Immigration Office to extend my visa and the fee is 1900 baht. There is NO NEED for a visa agent. If you have a problem with filling in form TM7 the Immigration Office even do that for you. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Norlund

[ozfarang]

2 minutes ago, Norlund said:

I have lived i Thailand for 22 years and I have had a Non Immigrant Visa for the same period of time. It takes me 30-40 min. at my local Immigration Office to extend my visa and the fee is 1900 baht. There is NO NEED for a visa agent. If you have a problem with filling in form TM7 the Immigration Office even do that for you. 

I'm literate and can read and write english so no need for help filling in forms.

 

Just don't need to be stuffed around with the forever changing requirements for visa extensions and dealing with non english speaking immigration officers. After 42 years being stuffed around at various immigration officers around Thailand I've had enough.

 

My agent handles all my visa, 90 day reporting and extensions.

 

Thanks for your advice regarding the use of an agent

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, Norlund said:

It takes me 30-40 min. at my local Immigration Office to extend my visa and the fee is 1900 baht

A visa cannot be extended.

 

[Norlund]

28 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

I'm literate and can read and write english so no need for help filling in forms.

 

Just don't need to be stuffed around with the forever changing requirements for visa extensions and dealing with non english speaking immigration officers. After 42 years being stuffed around at various immigration officers around Thailand I've had enough.

 

My agent handles all my visa, 90 day reporting and extensions.

 

Thanks for your advice regarding the use of an agent

At my Immigration Office NO ONES is f..... with you.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Norlund

[ozfarang]

1 minute ago, Norlund said:

At my Immigration Office NO ONES is f..... with you.

Is that quote in english?

 

Not sure what you are trying to tell me regarding 'your' immigration office

[Norlund]

18 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

A visa cannot be extended.

 

Sure? There is this website from the Immigration Office head office, but most local offices also having their own websites with the same information.

https://www.immigration.go.th/en/?p=14714

[Norlund]

7 minutes ago, ozfarang said:

Is that quote in english?

 

Not sure what you are trying to tell me regarding 'your' immigration office

My experience after 22 years in Thailand Immigration Offices in Thailand usually treat foreigners with respect (kind of).

Edited November 14, 2022 by Norlund

[ubonjoe]

51 minutes ago, Norlund said:

When you have had a tourist visa changed to a Non Immigrant Visa at the Immigration Office you get a stamp in your passport that says "Non Immigrant" and NOT "Permision To Stay". 

You get a visa stamp that states non-o on it that is only valid for the day it is issued and a entry stamp starting a 90 day stay in the country on that day,

[Rimmer]

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