Thai ship sinks in the Gulf off Prachuap - all aboard are safe but some media report injuries and missing

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, Jaybott said:

Is there any mention of emergency power kicking in?  Once main power is lost, an emergency diesel generator should auto start providing emergency power and lighting.  The EDG is normally not located in the main engine room but in its own watertight compartment with its own fuel tank and the emergency switchboard. 

 

This is a small ship; so no telling where the EDG was located or it could possibly not have an EDG but emergency battery power.  Anyway, emergency power should have been available, at least for awhile. 

On a normal vessel, there are two means of emergency lighting, one as you say from the emergency generator and another via battery power. 

If the vessel did lose propulsion and therefore steering, then the emergency generator would have been of no use other than to provide a means of light to escape.

With as list as bad as the pictures, it is possible that the emergency generator could not operate due to the bank angle.

I do not think that those who have never worked at sea can fully appreciate the terrible predicament the sailors were in, the ship was listing very badly, with some means of egress being impossible to use due to either the angle of the vessel or water blocking the escape routes, couple this with massive disorientation and it is a nightmare situation.

I've been on offshore ships that were rolling up to 50 degrees and lying in my bunk wondering if this was my last day on earth, if a ship fully capsizes and crew are inside say the engine room, what was the bottom of the ship is now the top, walking on engines and other machinery and with the escape hatches now above you not below, the way out is underwater, a truly nightmarish scenario.

A Navy ship is far worse, lots of pipes in walkways etc.

[sandyf]

16 hours ago, chang1 said:

As someone who was a marine engineer in the 80s, I find the explanation a little odd.

The funnel is normally one of the furthest parts from the sea and the water seems calm in the photos and video. The ship had moved a few miles from where it was disabled so the storm had probably passed by the time rescuers arrived. This still leaves the question of how water can get into the engine room through the "exhaust". I would expect the ventilation ducts are far more likely to be the problem. These would be able to channel water to the generators if the ship was hit by a freak wave. 

The results of the investigation will be interesting.

Why do people feel compelled to question what is reported in the media when media by default is questionable.

[Gottfrid]

3 hours ago, Megasin1 said:

incompetent reporting too....surely they mean over 30 are still missing, if they are just still in the water I would be asking a hard why !!!!

 

 

Yes, off course they mean that! However, I am very happy that they give us readers some cred for understanding. You know, it like says it very clear if you understand what you read. The boat was in water when the accident occurred. Now ask yourself. Would that mean the people they not rescued are in the water or did the boat have the accident on dry land?

[sandyf]

12 hours ago, joecoolfrog said:

I agree with you that speculation is pointless , an in depth enquiry is required.

These things are usually fudged though , even in more democratic leaning societies , so I dont suppose any Thai naval mandarins need lose any sleep.

I will bow to your extensive knowledge but I can assure you that the 2 Courts of Enquiry that I was involved in were anything but "fudged". One was the loss of a Buccaneer and the other a Wessex that crashed, fortunately in both cases there was no loss of life.

[Rimmer]

Multiple troll posts removed also replies

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, ross163103 said:

As with most accidents probably multiple issues led to this not just one thing.

Exactly. Nobody is immune from tragic accidents whether at sea, in the air or on land. Circumstances can build up to create a situation that gets out of control. Investigations need to be carried out, failings identified and blame if any attributed, and the main thing, lessons learned.

People come to Thailand and start whinging that they do not see the same standards as where they came from conveniently forgetting the country is many years behind with a much smaller economy.

Before passing premature judgement, people should remember the Herald of Free Enterprise.

"The ship left harbour with her bow door open, and the sea immediately flooded the decks; within minutes, she was lying on her side in shallow water. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Herald_of_Free_Enterprise

[newnative]

Poor sailors and apparently even worse rescuers. 

[Isaan sailor]

 Very sad.  We see many Thai flags flying in our Koh Chang village today.  Many years ago they also had a naval loss here.

[whaleboneman]

2 hours ago, Jaybott said:

Is there any mention of emergency power kicking in?  Once main power is lost, an emergency diesel generator should auto start providing emergency power and lighting.  The EDG is normally not located in the main engine room but in its own watertight compartment with its own fuel tank and the emergency switchboard. 

 

This is a small ship; so no telling where the EDG was located or it could possibly not have an EDG but emergency battery power.  Anyway, emergency power should have been available, at least for awhile. 

Emergency diesel generator is normally located on uppermost deck; and every naval ship has one.

But if it is not tested and maintained, it may not start in a blackout. Since it was reported that flooding came from exhaust, I assume generators had wet exhausts and one failed.

[nauseus]

20 hours ago, klauskunkel said:

Before U-turn and after:

moronic and bad taste

[connda]

Interesting.  Ships shouldn't just sink unless the hull was breached. 
Or the crew weren't following water-tight integrity.

[n8sail]

2 hours ago, ross163103 said:

I just read that one of the sailors said the seas were 3 meters at the time; a ship of that size should handle 3 meters easily. As one poster mentioned, possibly watertight doors not closed, I tend to think this also. As with most accidents probably multiple issues led to this not just one thing.

Indeed, it's almost never one problem, almost always a chain of smaller ones.  I concur with 3m waves.   Sunday I was kitesurfing in Prachuap Kiri Khan not far from where this vessel tragically sank.  Biggest waves were well over my head, and I'm nearly 2m tall.  I would call the mean seas about 2-2.5m, though.  Morning time we had recorded gusts to 32.7 knots on the beach, and when I was about 150m off the beach, it was definitely stronger, probably above 30 knots steady, gusting much higher.  7m kite, the smallets I own, was crazy over-powered.

 

I would describe the sea-state as extremely rough for a small vessel.  Indeed I would not have wanted to be out on even my 35 foot sailing boat in those conditions and she's a French boat designed for such.

 

However, a Corvette class should easily handle this.  Loss of power and going beam-to-seas would be a likely scenario.  However, this vessel has substantial ground tackle, and should have been able to anchor and keep bow into the waves.  Even in 3-4m seas, an anchor on this boat would likely hold no problem, or at least drag very slowly and keep the bow upwind.  It's only 20-30m deep, and a boat this size would likely have at least a couple hundred meters of chain rode, plenty to anchor in that much water.

Has anyone seen anywhere that they did in fact try to anchor?

 

I was in the US Coast Guard for 4 years; we had smaller vessels that would laugh at these conditions, even with an engine failure.

 

RIP, fair winds and following seas fellow sea people.

 

Final note on the weather:  This wind had been predicted 10 days out, and the forecast never changed that entire 10 days.   This wasn't some 'freak storm'.   It wasn't even a storm, it is a high pressure system pushing through.  A competent skipper wouldn't leave shore knowing this forecast unless it was dire circumstances or rescue.  If they were ordered to do so for a birthday party or something as is the scuttlebutt here at my work, shame on the officials doing the ordering.

[billd766]

13 hours ago, bangon04 said:

OR:  "The ship was on its way to attend a commemorative event to mark the 100th anniversary of the death of the force’s founder, Prince Abhakara Kiartivongse, in Chonburi province, Vice Adm. Pokkrong said."

But the crew list has not been published so there is no clue about who was on board at the time.

 

It seems as though the majority of those who were above deck, may well have been saved, whilst those below deck may not.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, Mattd said:

On a normal vessel, there are two means of emergency lighting, one as you say from the emergency generator and another via battery power. 

If the vessel did lose propulsion and therefore steering, then the emergency generator would have been of no use other than to provide a means of light to escape.

With as list as bad as the pictures, it is possible that the emergency generator could not operate due to the bank angle.

I do not think that those who have never worked at sea can fully appreciate the terrible predicament the sailors were in, the ship was listing very badly, with some means of egress being impossible to use due to either the angle of the vessel or water blocking the escape routes, couple this with massive disorientation and it is a nightmare situation.

I've been on offshore ships that were rolling up to 50 degrees and lying in my bunk wondering if this was my last day on earth, if a ship fully capsizes and crew are inside say the engine room, what was the bottom of the ship is now the top, walking on engines and other machinery and with the escape hatches now above you not below, the way out is underwater, a truly nightmarish scenario.

A Navy ship is far worse, lots of pipes in walkways etc.

Thank you for some sensible posts on this thread.

[gomangosteen]

Just a comment on the sea conditions that night - two other ships, one trawler and an oil tanker aground:

 

Thai-MECC [Thai Maritime Enforcement Command Centre] Region 1 reported that in addition to the Sukhothai:

• The freighter Anuphum encountered heavy seas about 5.7 nautical miles from Chumphon, which caused the ship to list. The cargo ship's ten crew were rescued by another vessel, the Pataravarin 88.
• Merchant ship Santhat Samut 2, with nine crew members and a cargo of timber, sent a distress signal before the ship sank about 35 nautical miles from Samui. All of the ship's crew were safely rescued, and some 30 containers were spotted near the shore in Surat Thani's Chaiya district, the office said.
• Trawler Sor Nopparat 4 capsized about 30 nautical miles southwest of Koh Samae Sarn, although fortunately, all of its crew were rescued safely.
• Oil tanker Pattarapun was swept towards the shore by strong winds, causing it to run aground in the mouth of Songkhla Lake. The company which operates the ship will tow the tanker back out to sea when conditions permit.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, newnative said:

Poor sailors and apparently even worse rescuers. 

And you base your comment on what?

 

Extensive service in the Thai navy?

 

Extensive service in any other countries navy?

 

Or simply bar stool Thai bashing with no knowledge of anything?

[Henryford]

Did the ship have an engine?

[kingstonkid]

20 hours ago, moe666 said:

How do you know they do not do maintanece have you ever been on a Thai Navy ship or for that matter any Navey ship of any kind. The usual Thai bashers who have no real knowlwdge except setting on a bar stool

7 years CDN navy. 27 total years military service including 7 boards of inquiry one for a Hercules that crashed in the Canadian Arctic.

 

I prefaced what I said with based on what I read.

 

This is an accident that happened in all likelihood die to someone not doing their job or a part failing.

[riclag]

Feel sorry for the families, the news got my Mrs  to crying !

Sad 

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

But the crew list has not been published so there is no clue about who was on board at the time.

 

It seems as though the majority of those who were above deck, may well have been saved, whilst those below deck may not.

You may be right with your second point. But the crew list itself is not vital right now and is not likely to be released in any case - it is the numbers of missing sailors that is important and if they can be saved.

[Mansell]

I don’t think anybody has mentioned a weather report for the area in question. Ships, especially smaller ships have to keep a very close eye on all weather reports, mainly because it can change dramatically in a short time….especially around the UK. Was aboard HMS Bermuda a cruiser, a big warship in the North Sea in a Force 9 gale. Nobody was allowed on deck for two days. Every one of the ships boats was smashed to pieces on their davits…..scary stuff. Think about the guys on the Russian Convoys in WWII in the winter……chances of survival NIL.

 

What a tragedy for the Thai families of the sailors lost in this sinking….I doubt they will get much compensation from the Navy. I don’t see 4 meter waves as being big in comparison to this corvette. The story doesn’t make much sense to me, unless there was complete incompetence among the officers. Let us hope not.

[Mansell]

5 hours ago, n8sail said:

Indeed, it's almost never one problem, almost always a chain of smaller ones.  I concur with 3m waves.   Sunday I was kitesurfing in Prachuap Kiri Khan not far from where this vessel tragically sank.  Biggest waves were well over my head, and I'm nearly 2m tall.  I would call the mean seas about 2-2.5m, though.  Morning time we had recorded gusts to 32.7 knots on the beach, and when I was about 150m off the beach, it was definitely stronger, probably above 30 knots steady, gusting much higher.  7m kite, the smallets I own, was crazy over-powered.

 

I would describe the sea-state as extremely rough for a small vessel.  Indeed I would not have wanted to be out on even my 35 foot sailing boat in those conditions and she's a French boat designed for such.

 

However, a Corvette class should easily handle this.  Loss of power and going beam-to-seas would be a likely scenario.  However, this vessel has substantial ground tackle, and should have been able to anchor and keep bow into the waves.  Even in 3-4m seas, an anchor on this boat would likely hold no problem, or at least drag very slowly and keep the bow upwind.  It's only 20-30m deep, and a boat this size would likely have at least a couple hundred meters of chain rode, plenty to anchor in that much water.

Has anyone seen anywhere that they did in fact try to anchor?

 

I was in the US Coast Guard for 4 years; we had smaller vessels that would laugh at these conditions, even with an engine failure.

 

RIP, fair winds and following seas fellow sea people.

 

Final note on the weather:  This wind had been predicted 10 days out, and the forecast never changed that entire 10 days.   This wasn't some 'freak storm'.   It wasn't even a storm, it is a high pressure system pushing through.  A competent skipper wouldn't leave shore knowing this forecast unless it was dire circumstances or rescue.  If they were ordered to do so for a birthday party or something as is the scuttlebutt here at my work, shame on the officials doing the ordering.

I had ten years in the Royal Navy, and I concur with all your points, especially about the weather and the size of the waves. Like commercial plane crashes, ships sinking in poor conditions and not even horrendous conditions ultimately comes down to human error on some level.

[LucMee]

 Not only was I one of her builders, but I came over on her delivery run. My first trip to Thailand. I can attest that she was well designed and built and from what I can see she didn’t break up or have any big holes in her. I can’t speak for the maintenance because I haven’t seen the ship in more than 15 years. But I suspect several hatches  weren’t properly secured and she wasn’t rigged for storm running. There’s only a very few ways to get enough water in her to sink that fast without breaking her back. 
One is to leave hatches open. Two is to run into something and put a huge hole in her. Three is if she dropped a propeller shaft. Losing power? To lose all power isn’t easy. Not on that ship. But again…enough water will do it. And that much coming in through the stacks is pretty hard to do. My guess is that several critical hatches weren’t battened down. And whoever was driving got them sideways to a really big wave and dipped the open hatches far enough under to suck in tons of water at once. If they didn’t get torpedoed…it’s poor seamanship…the skipper’s career is over. 

[LucMee]

18 hours ago, Jaybott said:

Is there any mention of emergency power kicking in?  Once main power is lost, an emergency diesel generator should auto start providing emergency power and lighting.  The EDG is normally not located in the main engine room but in its own watertight compartment with its own fuel tank and the emergency switchboard. 

 

This is a small ship; so no telling where the EDG was located or it could possibly not have an EDG but emergency battery power.  Anyway, emergency power should have been available, at least for awhile. 

The ship does have an aux machinery space forward of the ER. But the way she went down means a lot of water got in really quickly. When she heeled over and stayed down…it was game over if ALL the watertight hatches weren’t dogged. She better have a huge gash in her side or belly… or a missing prop shaft. Otherwise, it comes down to poor seamanship on the skippers part and lax seakeepng discipline on the crew. 

[LucMee]

15 hours ago, gomangosteen said:

Just a comment on the sea conditions that night - two other ships, one trawler and an oil tanker aground:

 

Thai-MECC [Thai Maritime Enforcement Command Centre] Region 1 reported that in addition to the Sukhothai:

• The freighter Anuphum encountered heavy seas about 5.7 nautical miles from Chumphon, which caused the ship to list. The cargo ship's ten crew were rescued by another vessel, the Pataravarin 88.
• Merchant ship Santhat Samut 2, with nine crew members and a cargo of timber, sent a distress signal before the ship sank about 35 nautical miles from Samui. All of the ship's crew were safely rescued, and some 30 containers were spotted near the shore in Surat Thani's Chaiya district, the office said.
• Trawler Sor Nopparat 4 capsized about 30 nautical miles southwest of Koh Samae Sarn, although fortunately, all of its crew were rescued safely.
• Oil tanker Pattarapun was swept towards the shore by strong winds, causing it to run aground in the mouth of Songkhla Lake. The company which operates the ship will tow the tanker back out to sea when conditions permit.

That’s a lot of ship damage. Indicating something odd was happening out there. But still…Sukhothai could have weathered a lot. She was overbuilt for a corvette. And the Thai navy is pretty good about maintaining their ships. But she was getting up there in age. So something could have fatigued out.  Here’s hoping that it was a catastrophic structural failure and not poor seamanship that did her in. 

[ross163103]

5 hours ago, LucMee said:

it was game over if ALL the watertight hatches weren’t dogged. She better have a huge gash in her side or belly… or a missing prop shaft. Otherwise, it comes down to poor seamanship on the skippers part and lax seakeepng discipline on the crew. 

Agree totally. Watertight hatches are one of those things that sailors get complacent about if they're not in rough sea conditions very often. I've been on ships in the tropics for months then transit to the north sea, you soon find out what hasn't been lashed down properly, or hatches that haven't been closed. A good captain/master will keep his crew on top of these things. Good drills are also very important, keeps the crew ready for most situations they'll encounter.

[Fortean1]

There is the possibility of rogue waves.  These appear suddenly and are significantly larger waves than the normal swells under similar weather conditions.  A search using "rogue waves" will bring up many results.  Here is one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rogue_waves

 

Terry

( a few miles south of Hua Hin, Thailand )

[metisdead]

Posts with links to unapproved social media sites have been removed.

[Fortean1]

My ASEAN NOW Forum newsfeed has dried up.  What happened.

 

Terry

( a few miles south of Hua Hin )

 

[YorkshireTyke]

9 hours ago, Fortean1 said:

My ASEAN NOW Forum newsfeed has dried up.  What happened.

 

Terry

( a few miles south of Hua Hin )

 

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