Internet banking change.

[owl sees all]

3 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

I just do not understand the banks motivation in forcing people to use mobile phone apps - just look at all the problems with them. It almost seems that banks are complicit in all the frauds that go on and yet refuse to compensate people for their losses when they use a system imposed on them by the same banks.

I use a PC for banking and my phone can receive an OTP and I do not want to change to mobile app only which is less secure.

And here's another from the BBC in the UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64240140

I like the KTB system. The one that is about to be no more. I like their web site, and TBH it was simplicity itself.

 

Suddenly life will become more difficult; starting next week.

[Negita43]

8 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I thought my phone app was more secure. I use my fingerprint to open it.  I am also asked for a password. 

And my PC never leaves the house whereas my mobile goes wherever I go so having TWO DEVICE security is whilst not perfect, is better.

Just read the BBC link here's an extract:

"Because the device was locked and password protected, Mr de Simone said that initially, while he was upset his phone had been stolen, he didn't think much more of it until the morning after when he checked his online banking.

"I found both my current account and savings accounts had been drained of £22,500. I was completely shocked. I didn't know how this was possible.

"I don't access my phone using a pin code - I use facial recognition. My Barclays pin is different to my phone pin and they'd need to have both of them."

[owl sees all]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

I thought my phone app was more secure. I use my fingerprint to open it.  I am also asked for a password. 

If you are happy with the technology; good for you. It can open possibilities that were not possible just 50 years ago. I appreciate that.

 

But IMO it can lead us down a dark path. I'm well past thinking that governments actually care about the populas. I'm not naive either into thinking that all this advance tech is for our benefit.

 

A listen to Sir Blair's - or Lord Blair - input,  at the recent WEF gathering, should make us very wary.

 

[Madgee]

If you really must use a pc instead of a mobile device then download Bluestacks 5. It's an android emulator for a pc. Download your apps from Google Play that you want and view / use them exactly the same as you would using a mobile.
I mainly use it for Lazada as the mobile app has advantages over the pc app so I can view it on a larger screen! Also many messages on the Lazada chat can only be read using the mobile app. By using Bluestacks 5 I can read them on my pc. 

 

[Negita43]

Just now, Madgee said:

If you really must use a pc instead of a mobile device then download Bluestacks 5. It's an android emulator

That's a good point I have bluestacks also but it's superflous for my needs at the moment but as you suggest if banks remove all PC based banking then it may be a solution.

 

Finally, I use a PC also because I can view everything on my 42 inch TV screen - these old eyes ain't what they used to be!

[Negita43]

18 hours ago, Pib said:

Then I had to give the phone back to my lovely caveman wife so she could return to watching Youtube and using LINE. 

We must share a wife!!!????

[owl sees all]

I would say it was about 15 years ago when a condo block in Pattaya designed a unique entry. All you had to do was put your finger in a hole and the outer gate would open. The same thing at the bottom of the block and the same thing again at your condo door.

 

It was scrapped, due to the fear that fingers might attach themselves to the wrong hands. I'm sure some Patts long-termers will recall that time.

[Liverpool Lou]

19 hours ago, JimGant said:

Christ, there's a lot more risk and lack of security with phone apps. And convenience? Surely sitting down in front of my desktop, with a keyboard I mastered in high school, and a screen I can readily read -- is far superior than a smartphone. That I can't conduct business in a busy, loud restaurant -- I'd never put myself in that predicament. [But, of course, I'd have my cellphone available for inconvenient emergencies.]

 

But, hey, if you've got 20 year old eyes, and fingers unaffected with arthritis -- go for it. But even so, your risk with a cellphone is greater than mine, conversing over 3BB fiber -- where old tried and true OTP has never made the headlines as being broken.

Christ...that's your subjective opinion based on your own personal circumstances are irrelevant to my comments to the other poster who was concerned about not having the KTB Netbank soon.

What has "3BB" got to do with this?  

Edited January 27, 2023 by Liverpool Lou

[Negita43]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

A listen to Sir Blair's - or Lord Blair - input,  at the recent WEF gathering, should make us very wary.

Whilst I agree with your sentiments in the rest of the post - wasn't Tony Blair the one who adamantly said that IRAQ had another type of weapon of mass destruction????

[owl sees all]

16 minutes ago, Negita43 said:

Whilst I agree with your sentiments in the rest of the post - wasn't Tony Blair the one who adamantly said that IRAQ had another type of weapon of mass destruction????

 

Indeed!!

 

And he is still trying to control people. Jabs for Africa and jab IDs for the western world. All linked to ones smart-phone.

Edited January 27, 2023 by owl sees all

[Negita43]

2 hours ago, Negita43 said:

If you really must use a pc instead of a mobile device then download Bluestacks 5. It's an android emulator

I have already said it's a good Idea but one afterthought - someone said elsewhere that the apps link to the SIM card so Blue stacks wouldn't help in this case - no SIM card in the PC

[JimGant]

4 hours ago, tubber said:

Maybe it will work next week and they are genuinely trying resolve the issues. 

Have you got the "ugly" filter turned on? ????

[owl sees all]

2 hours ago, Negita43 said:

And my PC never leaves the house whereas my mobile goes wherever I go so having TWO DEVICE security is whilst not perfect, is better.

Just read the BBC link here's an extract:

"Because the device was locked and password protected, Mr de Simone said that initially, while he was upset his phone had been stolen, he didn't think much more of it until the morning after when he checked his online banking.

"I found both my current account and savings accounts had been drained of £22,500. I was completely shocked. I didn't know how this was possible.

"I don't access my phone using a pin code - I use facial recognition. My Barclays pin is different to my phone pin and they'd need to have both of them."

This sounds really fishy!

[fdsa]

On 1/26/2023 at 11:24 AM, Liverpool Lou said:

It strikes me as odd that he's perfectly happy to accept the 'risk' of online banking but not the convenience and security that the phone app provides

a smartphone app could not be convenient and secure at the same time, and the overwhelming majority of smartphones running Android are insecure by design, just a few of them are designed and set up properly. Apples are ok, although I don't like them.

 

As for the online banking - you do control your computer (mostly) and you could setup your computer properly to make it secure. And you do NOT control your phone and thus could not setup it properly to be secure.

 

[Adumbration]

4 hours ago, Neeranam said:

KTB are following SCB by going down the digital/blockchain route. All banks within a short time will follow, if they want to remain competitive. 

Can send funds from Thailand to Japan or back in 2 seconds using cryptocurrency through SCB.

Some would prefer to use the grand old 1970s tech called SWIFT, which takes 10 days for a cross border transaction. ridiculous. No space for Luddites in the banking industry.

My international SWIFT transfers are same or next day.

[Adumbration]

3 hours ago, Madgee said:

If you really must use a pc instead of a mobile device then download Bluestacks 5. It's an android emulator for a pc. Download your apps from Google Play that you want and view / use them exactly the same as you would using a mobile.
I mainly use it for Lazada as the mobile app has advantages over the pc app so I can view it on a larger screen! Also many messages on the Lazada chat can only be read using the mobile app. By using Bluestacks 5 I can read them on my pc. 

 

This is interesting.  The only motivation I would have is that both Shopee and Lazada often offer free shipping but only through app purchase not pc.  Can you confirm that you have taken advantage of free shipping (offered for app purchase) when you actually completed the purchase via Bluestacks?

[Negita43]

THE PRICE OF PROGRESS??

In the old days criminals used to rob banks, with guns, through tunnels, by wire fraud.

The responsibilty for security was the banks and the loss fell on the banks not their customers.

No wonder they want to insist on apps (and not care about how secure they are)  because then the loss and responsibility for it falls on the customer and it is up to the customer to prove they were not responsible (some hopes).

 

There is a general shift away from corporate liabilty to individual liability

 

But this is not only an issue with banks, most if not all major companies on the internet want you to agree to lose your basic rights to privacy and redress if you want to use their "services".

 

Some say it's the price of progress - but who pays - we the "clients", "users", "subscribers, do - both monetarily and in terms of privacy.

 

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, fdsa said:

a smartphone app could not be convenient and secure at the same time, and the overwhelming majority of smartphones running Android are insecure by design, just a few of them are designed and set up properly. Apples are ok, although I don't like them.

 

As for the online banking - you do control your computer (mostly) and you could setup your computer properly to make it secure. And you do NOT control your phone and thus could not setup it properly to be secure.

 

 

Whence do you get the basis for your claims?

[fdsa]

1 hour ago, bradiston said:

 

Whence do you get the basis for your claims?

from my experience of more than 15 years working in IT (Linux, server administration, etc) and several last years working exclusively in information security field.

[bradiston]

2 hours ago, fdsa said:

from my experience of more than 15 years working in IT (Linux, server administration, etc) and several last years working exclusively in information security field.

Yes, but where is the actual data to support your assertion that "... the overwhelming majority of smartphones running Android are insecure by design, just a few of them are designed and set up properly", and "... you do NOT control your phone and thus could not setup it properly to be secure." Is this a reference to allegations of spying by the likes of Huawei? Was that ever proved? Does Microsoft harvest data? Or Intel? Or AMD? Who knows? How do most people control their pcs? Answer, they don't. They buy one mostly with MS Windows preinstalled, and trust to MS. I bought a Lenovo laptop in derk com. The "technician" there attempted and failed to upgrade it to Windows 11. When I got it home it was covered in viruses, and I had to wipe the whole thing clean and start again. It was a clean, sealed, boxed model before he got his hands on it.

 

You can't possibly have access to the data on "the overwhelming majority of smartphones running Android" because that would be an astronomical number of devices, involving many different manufacturers, different versions of Android, and in 150 or so different countries.

 

Hackers go after pc based systems for ransom demands, malware etc, because pc systems, maybe not so much Linux/Unix based networks, are far more vulnerable than smartphones running Android. And are a much greater liability. Inject the malware into one node and the whole network is potentially infected. Sure, phones are vulnerable to infected apps being downloaded, but I've not heard of a case where a power grid or hospital was brought down by the hacking of a mobile phone.

 

The long and the short of it is, I don't see how you can assert a mobile phone is potentially, or, in almost every case, actually, less secure than a PC.

 

See:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

 

See the list of affected OS down at the bottom? I don't see Android there. Just a variety of versions of MS Windows. The list of shame. Junk.

Edited January 27, 2023 by bradiston

[Dave H]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ktbcs.netbank

 

I found this interesting,  many folks having problems with the facial recognition part of the registration. 

[HighPriority]

59 minutes ago, Dave H said:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ktbcs.netbank

 

I found this interesting,  many folks having problems with the facial recognition part of the registration. 

My iPhone has never had problems knowing who I am.

Is the facial recognition tech proprietary to apple/google or does each manufacturer design their own ?

[owl sees all]

11 hours ago, bradiston said:

Yes, but where is the actual data to support your assertion that "... the overwhelming majority of smartphones running Android are insecure by design, just a few of them are designed and set up properly", and "... you do NOT control your phone and thus could not setup it properly to be secure." Is this a reference to allegations of spying by the likes of Huawei? Was that ever proved? Does Microsoft harvest data? Or Intel? Or AMD? Who knows? How do most people control their pcs? Answer, they don't. They buy one mostly with MS Windows preinstalled, and trust to MS. I bought a Lenovo laptop in derk com. The "technician" there attempted and failed to upgrade it to Windows 11. When I got it home it was covered in viruses, and I had to wipe the whole thing clean and start again. It was a clean, sealed, boxed model before he got his hands on it.

 

You can't possibly have access to the data on "the overwhelming majority of smartphones running Android" because that would be an astronomical number of devices, involving many different manufacturers, different versions of Android, and in 150 or so different countries.

 

Hackers go after pc based systems for ransom demands, malware etc, because pc systems, maybe not so much Linux/Unix based networks, are far more vulnerable than smartphones running Android. And are a much greater liability. Inject the malware into one node and the whole network is potentially infected. Sure, phones are vulnerable to infected apps being downloaded, but I've not heard of a case where a power grid or hospital was brought down by the hacking of a mobile phone.

 

The long and the short of it is, I don't see how you can assert a mobile phone is potentially, or, in almost every case, actually, less secure than a PC.

 

See:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

 

See the list of affected OS down at the bottom? I don't see Android there. Just a variety of versions of MS Windows. The list of shame. Junk.

When we wrote in BASIC or COBOL back in the 1970s, we would put in little bits of code to do sum-checks on start-up. I wrote stuff in assembler and did a programme for OTIS; the lift people. Not so worried about viruses back then as people copying the coding, and presenting it as their own.

 

When the Internet was in it's early stages, I was sometimes writing up to 5 sites a week from my shop in Wembley (UK). The biggest problem then, was establishing what the customer actually wanted. So had to be both an analyst and coder.

[bradiston]

22 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

When we wrote in BASIC or COBOL back in the 1970s, we would put in little bits of code to do sum-checks on start-up. I wrote stuff in assembler and did a programme for OTIS; the lift people. Not so worried about viruses back then as people copying the coding, and presenting it as their own.

 

When the Internet was in it's early stages, I was sometimes writing up to 5 sites a week from my shop in Wembley (UK). The biggest problem then, was establishing what the customer actually wanted. So had to be both an analyst and coder.

Agreed. I did an Open University software engineering course. Not exactly MIT, but by far the hardest part was the customer requirements analysis. Coding was simple once you knew exactly what they wanted.

 

The thing is with corporations the size of Google or Microsoft is, they have a customer base in the many millions, billions in the case of Android users. I would put Microsoft on a par with Thailand's public health ministry in terms of knowing what the hell they're doing, and knowing what their (captive) audiences want. Android's development is in the hands of several disparate agencies. Google is only a part of it, and has angered many seasoned developers with it's addition of bespoke chunks of code and built in apps, eg Play Store. But it persists as a decent OS. Linux based, of course.

[fdsa]

16 hours ago, bradiston said:

, but where is the actual data to support your assertion that "... the overwhelming majority of smartphones running Android are insecure by design, just a few of them are designed and set up properly",

Sorry but i'm too lazy to recall and describe everything. Cheap chinese smartphones come with preinstalled malware, expensive chinese smartphones do not allow flashing a custom bootloader, et cetera. The only somewhat good and customizable brand I know is Google Pixel (yes, the spying giant made a really good phone)

 

16 hours ago, bradiston said:

you do NOT control your phone and thus could not setup it properly to be secure.

try to do something non-standard with your phone and you'll find out that even the root access does not give you full control over the device, even in the abovementioned Pixels. "Android OS" owns your phone, not some "root" account. And as you could not do anything you want even on the rooted phone, you could only hope that your Android distribution developers are honest.

 

 

16 hours ago, bradiston said:

How do most people control their pcs? Answer, they don't.

I do not care about "most people" and what shop technicians do with their fresh Windows installs, I care about myself and my computers only. And with all my experience I could NOT secure my phone because I do not control it, even on the software level (in its operating system), not even mentioning its hardware. That's why I prefer a computer, because I fully control it on software level, to some extent even on firmware (BIOS, BMC, PCI devices) level, and to some extent even on hardware level.

[persimmon]

Would installing anti-virus like Norton make the average Android phone more secure ?

[fdsa]

1 hour ago, persimmon said:

Would installing anti-virus like Norton make the average Android phone more secure ?

a little bit, same as hanging a dummy CCTV camera on a house without a door lock would repel some robbers.

[herfiehandbag]

On 1/24/2023 at 4:13 PM, tubber said:

Maybe you have an older version of the app? If you download the one in the app store you can't do anything on wi-fi, it tells you to switch to mobile data. When you switch to mobile data it goes straight to facial recognition.

What is more, at present it doesn't allow you to register as a foreigner. It tells you to go to a branch for verification of your identity. So on Saturday off I went, queued for an hour, and was told that the app has a problem, "IT" were trying to fix it,and to try again " next week".

[tubber]

4 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

What is more, at present it doesn't allow you to register as a foreigner. It tells you to go to a branch for verification of your identity. So on Saturday off I went, queued for an hour, and was told that the app has a problem, "IT" were trying to fix it,and to try again " next week".

Exactly what I was told.

[Negita43]

On 1/27/2023 at 8:54 AM, owl sees all said:

This sounds really fishy!

On a SCALE of 1 to 10?