1 minute ago, connda said:

When I lived in Chiang Mai my Honda Dream was my primary transportation. It's the best way to get around in the city imho.  But I also always realized that a two ton car always wins an accident an drove accordingly.  Motorcyclists now?  Well, fatality rates pretty much spell it out here in Thailand with 80% of the fatalities being M/C riders.

Being Young small bike riders and scoot riders let's get it into perspective. 

5 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Motorbikes are supposed to ride in the left lane. The shoulder is not a lane and is usually delineated with a solid (no cross) line except at junction where the line is broken.

When I lived in Bangkok the cops would disagree with you.  They'd ticket M/C drivers not driving on the shoulder.  I've driven highways myself on my Honda 125.  Self-preservation! Most of my driving was on the shoulder.  I racked up about 35k kilometers in the first 5 years living here.  I've seen it all.

5 hours ago, Henryford said:

Those that overtake on the left (even if there is only a tiny gap) and those that ride on the wrong side of the road because it saves them 5 seconds to cross to the correct side, oh yes and those that ride on pavements.

U-Turns of Death.  M/C that drive up on the right side of your car, and then cut in front of you to the shoulder as your attempting to make a right into the left lane.  They need to be on the left side - morons.

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

In principle I agree with you. But sometimes there are lots of obstacles on the left lane (depending on the road). Changing from the left lane to the next lane and back is also a considerable risk.

Of course you don't drive on the shoulder all the time.  At times you have to move out to the middle lanes.  However, when I do it, I look in the mirror, throw a glace over my right shoulder and safely merge.  Most Thais?  They don't look. They'll just pull right out in front of a car going 20, 30, 40 kph faster than them.  It's suicidal, just like pulling out from a side road onto the main road without looking - which I'd say 80+% of Thai M/C do.  It no wonder 80% of the fatalities are M/C. 
When I had a "Big Bike" I drove like I did in the US except I never found it fun driving here at all as you can never let down your guard for a second and just enjoy the ride.  Driving here is like driving in an Arcade Game.

17 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

I ride a super biker at 240 kph when I'm on a bike trip leaving all the young whipper snapper behind so go flig yourself. 

You'll eventually be scraped off of the road.  Just a matter of time.

45 minutes ago, connda said:

When I lived in Bangkok the cops would disagree with you.  They'd ticket M/C drivers not driving on the shoulder.  I've driven highways myself on my Honda 125.  Self-preservation! Most of my driving was on the shoulder.  I racked up about 35k kilometers in the first 5 years living here.  I've seen it all.

Its amazing how this ‘attitude’ towards riding on the shoulder differs.

 

Firstly - about 20-15 years ago the BiB in Bangkok were a bunch of charlians ticketing motorcyclists for being in anything other than the left lane (i.e. left lane of Sukhumvit road). Other than expressways, I’m not sure where there are any roads in central Bangkok which have a shoulder, on the outskirts maybe. 

 

Now... addressing the ‘safety of riding on the shoulder’ issue.... 

My viewpoint on this is a polar opposite to yours [connda] - I feel riding on the shoulder (when there is one) places me in far greater risk than driving down the main lane. 

The shoulder has grit and dirt, more obstacles, people pulling out and going the wrong way etc... IMO, its a far more dangerous place to be when riding at ’traffic speed’.

 

IF going far slower than surrounding traffic then the shoulder maybe safer, but I still think that is riskier than travelling at the same speed as the traffic around you on the main road (in lane 1).

 

IF in central Bangkok, I also avoid lane 1, as this is were cars and motorcyclists suddenly pull into and suddenly stop and pull out of (taxi’s are terrible for suddenly stopping in lane 1).

 

 

 

I figure it all depends if you are on a machine that can travel at the same speed as the traffic around you.

 

 

Riding down Suk in Pattaya MB's are across the lanes. Each situation is different. The small roads i live on has heavy car commute traffic. If MB's didn't help out and stay on shoulder as they're doing 25 khp it would be more traumatic. 

30 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its amazing how this ‘attitude’ towards riding on the shoulder differs.

 

Firstly - about 20-15 years ago the BiB in Bangkok were a bunch of charlians ticketing motorcyclists for being in anything other than the left lane (i.e. left lane of Sukhumvit road). Other than expressways, I’m not sure where there are any roads in central Bangkok which have a shoulder, on the outskirts maybe. 

 

Now... addressing the ‘safety of riding on the shoulder’ issue.... 

My viewpoint on this is a polar opposite to yours [connda] - I feel riding on the shoulder (when there is one) places me in far greater risk than driving down the main lane. 

The shoulder has grit and dirt, more obstacles, people pulling out and going the wrong way etc... IMO, its a far more dangerous place to be when riding at ’traffic speed’.

 

IF going far slower than surrounding traffic then the shoulder maybe safer, but I still think that is riskier than travelling at the same speed as the traffic around you on the main road (in lane 1).

 

IF in central Bangkok, I also avoid lane 1, as this is were cars and motorcyclists suddenly pull into and suddenly stop and pull out of (taxi’s are terrible for suddenly stopping in lane 1).

 

 

 

I figure it all depends if you are on a machine that can travel at the same speed as the traffic around you.

 

 

I accept your point of view and understand it. 

Troll / flames leading to more flames and bickering have been removed

"Which bikes and riders irritate you?"

 

Foreigners on bikes in Pattaya, specifically the ones that are either on their hols or have been there too long and think they're Thai.

 

This is most noticeable when walking along the Dirty Cow. Yes, I'm foolish enough to do such a thing. YOLO.

Farangs On Harleys for sure, wannabe tough guys but truly just posers.

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Its amazing how this ‘attitude’ towards riding on the shoulder differs.

 

Firstly - about 20-15 years ago the BiB in Bangkok were a bunch of charlians ticketing motorcyclists for being in anything other than the left lane (i.e. left lane of Sukhumvit road). Other than expressways, I’m not sure where there are any roads in central Bangkok which have a shoulder, on the outskirts maybe. 

 

Now... addressing the ‘safety of riding on the shoulder’ issue.... 

My viewpoint on this is a polar opposite to yours [connda] - I feel riding on the shoulder (when there is one) places me in far greater risk than driving down the main lane. 

The shoulder has grit and dirt, more obstacles, people pulling out and going the wrong way etc... IMO, its a far more dangerous place to be when riding at ’traffic speed’.

 

IF going far slower than surrounding traffic then the shoulder maybe safer, but I still think that is riskier than travelling at the same speed as the traffic around you on the main road (in lane 1).

 

IF in central Bangkok, I also avoid lane 1, as this is were cars and motorcyclists suddenly pull into and suddenly stop and pull out of (taxi’s are terrible for suddenly stopping in lane 1).

 

 

 

I figure it all depends if you are on a machine that can travel at the same speed as the traffic around you.

 

 

Yes .... the far left is very risky.  It's the 'stop suddenly because you spot a 7-11' lane.  It's also the kill zone for Bangkok buses.

 

And my vote for most disliked bikers .... riding the wrong way on a highway because they can't be bothered doing a u-turn.  

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Now... addressing the ‘safety of riding on the shoulder’ issue.... 

My viewpoint on this is a polar opposite to yours [connda] - I feel riding on the shoulder (when there is one) places me in far greater risk than driving down the main lane. 

Riding on the shoulder directly contradicts safe motorcycle riding practices taught in developed countries. It has nothing to do with road surface. The main reason is that it gives intersecting traffic less time to see you and you less time to react to incompetent or negligent drivers coming in perpendicular to you.  Many expats here never learned to ride safely in their home country and it shows. Riding on the shoulder here in Thailand is even more dangerous because more times than not the shoulder ends with no warning, not to mention that Thai drivers can not corner within their own lane 9/10 times.

The fact that many here believe riding on the shoulder is expected and even law is terrifying.

27 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

Farangs On Harleys for sure, wannabe tough guys but truly just posers.

I know, the nerve of those guys showing they have a mil+ to spend on toys.

Just now, Dogsredrocket said:

Riding on the shoulder directly contradicts safe motorcycle riding practices taught in developed countries. It has nothing to do with road surface. The main reason is that it gives intersecting traffic less time to see you and you less time to react to incompetent or negligent drivers coming in perpendicular to you.  Many expats here never learned to ride safely in their home country and it shows. Riding on the shoulder here in Thailand is even more dangerous because more times than not the shoulder ends with no warning, not to mention that Thai drivers can not corner within their own lane 9/10 times.

The fact that many here believe riding on the shoulder is expected and even law is terrifying.

 Correct. I was shocked to read that some people think that riding on the shoulder is anything but suicidal. It's inviting other vehicles to run you off the road. The correct location to drive is exactly in the center of whichever lane is appropriate for your travel, usually the left lane. That goes for every type of vehicle on the road. Trucks are required to travel in the left hand lane except when overtaking and turning right. 

 

I have a license to drive every vehicle except articulated and special vehicles. I'm a qualified driving instructor and hold a commercial driving permit. 

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

 Correct. I was shocked to read that some people think that riding on the shoulder is anything but suicidal. It's inviting other vehicles to run you off the road. The correct location to drive is exactly in the center of whichever lane is appropriate for your travel, usually the left lane. That goes for every type of vehicle on the road. Trucks are required to travel in the left hand lane except when overtaking and turning right. 

 

I have a license to drive every vehicle except articulated and special vehicles. I'm a qualified driving instructor and hold a commercial driving permit. 

I challenge you to ride MB center left lane on a road with only one lane each way at slow speeds when commuters are scurrying  to work at 80-100 kmh

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

I challenge you to ride MB center left lane on a road with only one lane each way at slow speeds when commuters are scurrying  to work at 80-100 kmh

If I had to do that I certainly would. It's much safer than allowing them to run me off the road. What are they going to do, run me down? Only a fool would ride a scooter in those circumstances but if they had to it's definitely still the safest thing to do. 

7 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

challenge you to ride MB center left lane on a road with only one lane each way at slow speeds when commuters are scurrying  to work at 80-100 kmh

Even more reason to take charge of the lane and your space. Riding on the shoulder is for incompetents which is why the majority of Thais do it. They also undertake, ride on the wrong side of the road and ride unregistered and uninsured bikes.

2 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Farangs On Harleys for sure, wannabe tough guys but truly just posers.

Next time you see a guy on a Harley feel free to go up to the ‘wanna be tough guy’ and call him a poser !!!!.....  ???? ???? 

 

And no, I dont own a Harley !!! ????

1 hour ago, ozimoron said:

... The correct location to drive is exactly in the center of whichever lane is appropriate for your travel, usually the left lane. ...

I was taught that the exact center is where oil leaks out of 4 wheel vehicle engines and can be slipperier than the tire tracks on either side.

 

10 hours ago, Will B Good said:

12/13 year old spoilt brats on 150cc bikes with sewing machine engines and pathetic, modified exhaust pipes.

Absolutely!  The ear-raping exhausts are bad enough, especially when they backfire because they don't actually work properly, but add to that an arrogant seeming kid with a pudding bason haircut and you've got something super annoying.

For a number of years our house in Loei was on an unpaved alley and we are the last house on our side.  Then my wife petitioned to get it paved, which it was a number of years.  Now there's at least one racer boy on a clapped out bike with no muffler who zooms past our house at high speed.  I knew that would happen.

Everybody else on the road regardless of vehicle, gender or race. 

48 minutes ago, JeffersLos said:

Everybody else on the road regardless of vehicle, gender or race. 

My favorite:

10 hours ago, ozimoron said:

If I had to do that I certainly would. It's much safer than allowing them to run me off the road. What are they going to do, run me down? Only a fool would ride a scooter in those circumstances but if they had to it's definitely still the safest thing to do. 

Thanks for the chuckle, I'd like to read one post from anyone who rides their MB daily the way you suggest.

22 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Motorbikes are supposed to ride in the left lane. The shoulder is not a lane and is usually delineated with a solid (no cross) line except at junction where the line is broken.

Great theory.

^ usually ride there as trucks don't, so there are less undulations.

The ones that generally irritate me have black hair and brown eyes! Their mortality rate is quite high!

3 minutes ago, 2baht said:

The ones that generally irritate me have black hair and brown eyes!

Well that's easily fixed then. 

^ Phew. That lets me off. I've go no hair.????