Nigel Farage: ‘Brexit has failed’

[RayC]

25 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

It seems in the EU there is a shortage of expertise of labour in certain fields Finland is lacking in labor, especially in the fields of agriculture, health care

Finland identified Brazil, India, Vietnam and Turkey as four special target countries to attract immigrants.

https://scandasia.com/finland-to-attract-more-migrant-workers-from-vietnam/

In which case, it seems sensible to look outside of the EU. This also seems like a country specific problem as - by their own admission and for whatever reasons - Finland is not seen as being an attractive destination for migrants.

 

I'm not sure that this says much about the labour shortages in the UK. Many vacancies are in the Agricultural and Hospitality sectors and are low/ semi-skilled jobs. Many of these jobs were filled by EU nationals pre-Brexit.

[candide]

56 minutes ago, nauseus said:

There is no clear vision or advance warning of what leaving is or what it might be because there is no detail in Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union (or Article 218 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union). From Article 50, it all sounds so simple, until a member tries to quit.

 

The only thing clear is that all procedures concerning leaving are set and dominated by the EU, that is plainly obvious now. The leaving state has little influence, as it remains within the EU until a WA is reached. Because the EU has evolved into a cross-national political and economic web, then no deal at all would be disastrous, especially for peoples. But it's not a reasonable way to end a partnership and those words "good faith" were rarely applied.

 

But hey! Who'd have thought it?!! 

There was no previous experience about the process of leaving.

 

Howrver, there was a clear knowledge about possible options from previous trade agreements with other countries (Norway, Turkey, Canada  etc...) and there was also a clear knowledge about the principles and concerns of the EU, as UK participated in previous negotiations as EU member state. 

 

UK was not treated in an unexpected way, and was not treated worse than other third countries which negotiated an agreement with the EU.

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, RayC said:

In which case, it seems sensible to look outside of the EU. This also seems like a country specific problem as - by their own admission and for whatever reasons - Finland is not seen as being an attractive destination for migrants.

 

I'm not sure that this says much about the labour shortages in the UK. Many vacancies are in the Agricultural and Hospitality sectors and are low/ semi-skilled jobs. Many of these jobs were filled by EU nationals pre-Brexit.

That would have been pre pandemic, post pandemic many people have moved away from those low paid, no job security, bad working conditions to other areas of employment

New report by the World Travel and Tourism Council shows over one million tourism sector jobs remain unfilled in the EU

 

In 2022, Italy will be the country most affected by a shortage of staff in the tourism sector.

According to a study by the World Travel and Tourism Council, 250,000 workers will be missing this year, meaning one in six vacancies will not be filled.

The hospitality sector and travel agencies are among the most affected.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/08/02/tourism-staff-shortages-affect-12-million-jobs-in-the-eu-says-study

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

 

 

Personally, I don't see the rise in immigration as a failing. However, I also don't see any particular benefit in swapping EU nationals for Asian nationals.

 

I would personally prefer to have a Filipino nurse rather than a Bulgarian nurse, if I need to go to the hospital in the U.K 

   Yet another case of the Left and the Right swapping sides

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Lazy workshy Brits on benefits.

 

We'll get to that.

Careful, you’re gonna get you self a ‘Brit Hater/Brit Basher’ badge.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[JustAnotherHun]

5 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I would personally prefer to have a Filipino nurse rather than a Bulgarian nurse

I would prefer a competent and empathic nurse, no matter where she comes from.

[Chomper Higgot]

30 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

I would personally prefer to have a Filipino nurse rather than a Bulgarian nurse, if I need to go to the hospital in the U.K 

   Yet another case of the Left and the Right swapping sides

I’d prefer a nurse who is qualified, experienced and paid enough so she can focus on the job rather than worry about not being able to pay her bills.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[Mac Mickmanus]

6 minutes ago, JustAnotherHun said:

I would prefer a competent and empathic nurse, no matter where she comes from.

What if there were two female nurses with the same qualifications and competence ? 

  A Bulgarian nurse and a Filipino nurse .

Which one would you prefer to give you a tetanus injection ?

[RayC]

24 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

That would have been pre pandemic, post pandemic many people have moved away from those low paid, no job security, bad working conditions to other areas of employment

New report by the World Travel and Tourism Council shows over one million tourism sector jobs remain unfilled in the EU

 

In 2022, Italy will be the country most affected by a shortage of staff in the tourism sector.

According to a study by the World Travel and Tourism Council, 250,000 workers will be missing this year, meaning one in six vacancies will not be filled.

The hospitality sector and travel agencies are among the most affected.

https://www.euronews.com/2022/08/02/tourism-staff-shortages-affect-12-million-jobs-in-the-eu-says-study

But it's a little more nuanced than that.

I don't have any hard evidence to support my contention but I'd suggest that in complete contrast to Finland, pre-Brexit the UK - especially London despite its' high cost of living - was seen as a desirable location by many young EU nationals, and consequently many jobs in the hospitality sector were filled by them. Some may have been students working part-time;  others may have taken advantage of freedom of movement and spend a few months here. 

 

Since Brexit, the number of EU nationals in the UK is down. Although it won't happen, it would be interesting to see what effect reinstating freedom of movement for EU nationals would have on the Hospitality sector. I suspect that the 128k vacancies would fall dramatically.

 

(Not directed at you: I'm aware that EU nationals can get a visa to work in the UK. The data suggests that they do not want the hassle and expense in doing so).

[dunroaming]

17 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

You should send a message to Rishi Sunak :

Dear Rishi, if you would like to win the next election , you should sack all the current M.P's and re-join the E.U and you might get voted in next time  .

   Yours sincerely , a non voter living abroad .

That seems to be the message being sent everyday, one way or another.  However Sunak has little grasp on reality and is a large part of the problem.  The inevitable will happen eventually and we will rejoin the EU.  But while you have this incompetent government, who are still desperately hiding from the truth of the Brexit failure, we are blinkered by denial.

[Chomper Higgot]

14 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What if there were two female nurses with the same qualifications and competence ? 

  A Bulgarian nurse and a Filipino nurse .

Which one would you prefer to give you a tetanus injection ?

The one that’s holding the syringe.

[youreavinalaff]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Not for the first time, I find myself asking, what is your point?

Forecast. Assumption. Facts.

 

3 words for you to look up in the dictionary. Once you know and understand the meanings, you'll understand my point. If you don't, you are in denial.

 

 

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Forecast. Assumption. Facts.

 

3 words for you to look up in the dictionary. Once you know and understand the meanings, you'll understand my point. If you don't, you are in denial.

 

 

Here’s three words for you:

 

‘Brexit has failed’.

[dunroaming]

22 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The Scots found that support for Scottish independence dramatically decreased when they were advised that keeping the pound was not an option and they would have to accept the euro

I think you will find similar outcome if the UK has to accept the Euro that and I yet to see any indication from the EU that it wants it former troublesome member back into the fold

 

Not my experience as somebody who's business is now based in The Netherlands (although my home is still in England.)  My EU friends would welcome back the UK with open arms and indeed there are negotiations going on daily exploring the best way for this to happen.  Of course there will be a price to pay but that is Britain's fault for falling for all the Brexit lies.

[dunroaming]

23 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Labour are very happy for the Tories to stew in their Tory Brexit.

 

I’ve said for a long time, I want this Tory Government to go full term so that they can be seen to be responsible for their Brexit and the damage their Brexit has done to the country.

That Farage had now admitted Brexit is a failure and is pointing fingers at the Tories is a bonus.

 

Farage will of course immediately switch to blaming Labour as soon as they take office, but for now let the Tories stew in it.

Farage is just an annoying little (deleted) who has no credibility left at all.

[youreavinalaff]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Here’s three words for you:

 

‘Brexit has failed’.

Impossible to say. As we have discussed several times on this thread alone, there are still issues to be dealt with. 

 

As an example, you yourself, have mentioned a myriad of times that there are many laws to be changed. Thus, Brexit is unfinished business and cannot be deemed a failure. Even if your newest bosom buddy Nige says so.

Edited May 25, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

The Articles are simply statements of the process and procedures. I don't see why or how they could be anything more?

 

Agreed. If you are implying that the EU would be the dominant partner in any negotiation then, again, agreed. If you are suggesting something else, I can't see what it is.

 

Once again. Agreed although some Brexiters such as Nigel Farage wouldn't.

 

(I think?) we agree that the EU was the dominant partner. Imo it also pretty quickly became clear that they had the better negotiators (especially when it came to lead negotiators). Given this, it can't be any surprise that the final agreement would have largely been on the EU's terms.

 

It's not clear to me what you are suggesting could, and should have, happened? 

 

Your comment also doesn't address my point about the lack of agreement about what Brexit meant. If Brexiters couldn't agree this amongst themselves, how could they expect an outcome on which they expect a favourable outcome?

Being in a dominant position does not have to mean "better negotiators" but in this case the UK started so badly and carried on in similar fashion, so I would agree.

 

It was up to the government of the day to define what Brexit meant and how to deal with it. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by nauseus

[Chomper Higgot]

12 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Impossible to say. As we have discussed several times on this thread alone, there are still issues to be dealt with. 

 

As an example, you yourself, have mentioned a myriad of times that there are many laws to be changed. Thus, Brexit is unfinished business and cannot be deemed a failure. Even if your newest bosom buddy Nige says so.

I haven’t suggested there are many laws to be changed (or to be more precise, repealed).

 

That’s a Brexiteer idea, but oddly when asked which particular laws need to be repealed and why, no Brexiteer can give an example.

 

This despite the fact Brexiteers have claimed 4000 or do such laws exist.

 

 

Edited May 25, 2023 by Chomper Higgot

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, candide said:

There was no previous experience about the process of leaving.

 

Howrver, there was a clear knowledge about possible options from previous trade agreements with other countries (Norway, Turkey, Canada  etc...) and there was also a clear knowledge about the principles and concerns of the EU, as UK participated in previous negotiations as EU member state. 

 

UK was not treated in an unexpected way, and was not treated worse than other third countries which negotiated an agreement with the EU.

The examples you give apply to non EU third countries doing whatever deals they could with the EU. The UK was a member throughout the negotiations and was certainly treated differently. 

Edited May 25, 2023 by nauseus

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Being in a dominant position does not have to mean "better negotiators" but in this case the UK started so badly and carried on in similar fashion, so I would agree.

 

It was up to the government of the day define what Brexit meant and how to deal with it. 

And Boris Johnson with his unassailable majority handed to him on the promise ‘to get Brexit done’ somehow conspired against Brexit.

 

It boggles the mind.

[nauseus]

21 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Not my experience as somebody who's business is now based in The Netherlands (although my home is still in England.)  My EU friends would welcome back the UK with open arms and indeed there are negotiations going on daily exploring the best way for this to happen.  Of course there will be a price to pay but that is Britain's fault for falling for all the Brexit lies.

I think we paid enough already.

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Farage is just an annoying little (deleted) who has no credibility left at all.

I can't believe that!

[Mac Mickmanus]

23 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

  My EU friends would welcome back the UK with open arms and indeed there are negotiations going on daily exploring the best way for this to happen.  

Who are those negations between ?

Who are having daily negotations exploring the best way for the UK to join the E.U 

 

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

And Boris Johnson with his unassailable majority handed to him on the promise ‘to get Brexit done’ somehow conspired against Brexit.

 

It boggles the mind.

Oh he got Brexit done. The trouble is that most of the dinner in the oven was the regurgitated Chequers Stew - designed by May-Robbins, bespoke caterers to the EU. 

[Jeff the Chef]

Enjoy https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/net-migration-uk-hits-record-606000-2022-2023-05-25/

[youreavinalaff]

23 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I haven’t suggested there are many laws to be changed (or to be more precise, repealed).

 

That’s a Brexiteer idea, but oddly when asked which particular laws need to be repealed and why, no Brexiteer can give an example.

 

This despite the fact Brexiteers have claimed 4000 or do such laws exist.

 

 

I said mentioned, not suggested.

 

You have confirmed you have asked many times what the laws are. That certainly means you have mentioned them. 

[RayC]

44 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Forecast. Assumption. Facts.

 

3 words for you to look up in the dictionary. Once you know and understand the meanings, you'll understand my point. If you don't, you are in denial.

 

 

Answer (noun): a thing that is said, written, or done as a reaction to a question, statement, or situation.

 

Something that you seem consistently unable to provide

 

To take a look in the mirror (Idiom):

To consider, realize, or admit one's own failing or culpability in relation to some issue.

 

Maybe something you should try.

[Mac Mickmanus]

10 minutes ago, Jeff the Chef said:

Enjoy https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/net-migration-uk-hits-record-606000-2022-2023-05-25/

As previously discussed in this thread , the high immigration to the U.K is because people coming from Ukraine and Hong Kong and also students coming to the U.K now because there have been Covid entry restriction for the last few years .

   Nothing to do with Brexit

[Plern]

Sabotaged more like it

 

https://mishtalk.com/economics/contrary-to-popular-myth-brexit-was-not-a-bad-decision-and-did-not-fail

 

[youreavinalaff]

9 minutes ago, RayC said:

Answer (noun): a thing that is said, written, or done as a reaction to a question, statement, or situation.

 

Something that you seem consistently unable to provide

 

To take a look in the mirror (Idiom):

To consider, realize, or admit one's own failing or culpability in relation to some issue.

 

Maybe something you should try.

I gave you an answer. I thought you were confused with the meanings of words i used as my original post was straight forward. I was showing the difference between forecasts and fact.