Something fishy with th electric bills ?

[JensenZ]

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

The official normal residential rate from PEA for installations consuming over 150kWh per month is as follows:

 

First 150 kWh (0 – 150th)      3.2484
Next  250 kWh (151st – 400th)  4.2218
Over  400 kWh (401st and over) 4.4217

 

Then you need to add FT (fuel charge) which on my recent bill was 0.9119 Baht per unit. Add also a fixed service charge of 24.62 baht. And to the sum of those you add the VAT of 7%.

 

Example calculation if you consume 700kWh: (150*3.2484 + 250*4.2218 + 300*4.4217 + 24.62 + 700*0.9119) * 1.07 = 3,779.42 Baht which gives an average of roughly 5.4 Baht per unit.

 

This is "Schedule 1 Residential" - "1.1 Normal Rate" in the linked PDF.

 

https://www.pea.co.th/Portals/1/Knowledge PEA/Electricity Tariffs JAN66 Unofficial Translation.pdf?ver=2023-01-27-133655-423

 

The construction tariff that Crossy mentioned earlier is the "Schedule 8 Temporary Service" tariff which has a fixed 6.8025 Baht per unit price. To that you add the 0.9119 FT and 7% VAT so really it's 8.25 Baht per kWh.

 

It might be worth noting that the FT jumped from 0.247 to 0.934 in Sep 2022.

[bluejets]

13 hours ago, moogradod said:

And all the bulps are conventional.

Sweet next to nothing saving there............look at high consumption devices. and better get used to high energy costs as it's on the way up everywhere.

[sometimewoodworker]

7 hours ago, JensenZ said:

It might be worth noting that the FT jumped from 0.247 to 0.934 in Sep 2022.

I might be worth noting that at the moment the FT is on a sliding scale. The effect is that your statement is only true for a subset of users, it is not universally correct.

[patman30]

seems about right if running pumps all day
if you are not at the property
run the pool pumps AT NIGHT and turn them off in the day
off peak electricity is half the cost 10pm-9am

[Crossy]

46 minutes ago, patman30 said:

off peak electricity is half the cost 10pm-9am

 

Only if you have a Time-of-Use meter, which most of us don't.

[JensenZ]

17 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

I might be worth noting that at the moment the FT is on a sliding scale. The effect is that your statement is only true for a subset of users, it is not universally correct.

It might also be worth noting that my FT was exactly the same as the member I replied to who indicated it's current rate, 0.9119, so we are both on the same subset of uers. The differences of subsets are probably insignificant.

[JBChiangRai]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:52 AM, patman30 said:

seems about right if running pumps all day
if you are not at the property
run the pool pumps AT NIGHT and turn them off in the day
off peak electricity is half the cost 10pm-9am

There is little point in running your pumps during the day if your pool is in the sun and it is a chlorine sterilised by electric salt cell.

 

Sunlight burns off the Chlorine.  You should run your pumps at dusk, you can probably run them a lot less time, the Chlorine won't get burned off and if you check the early morning level, Chlorine still present means it's done its job and there was nothing left for it to kill.

 

Forget all the usual advice and fit a Chlorinator double the size recommended and you can probably just run your system 3-4 hours a night at dusk and halve the running costs.

[brianthainess]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:11 PM, moogradod said:

Does anybody have an idea how to check some shortcomings

Normally Simple to check, unplug everything and go look to see if the meter is turning

 

On 7/2/2023 at 4:11 PM, moogradod said:

but the pool pumps are running during the day and will be switched off at night.

Are they running even when your not there? pumps don't just suck water they suck up power too. 

[statman78]

As others have mentioned, the pool pump uses a lot of electricity.  Our pool pump is on a time and we run it for a couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the afternoon and that is enough for us.  We also added a solar panel system for our entire house. Our bills during the hot months were close to 6000 baht.  Last month our bill was only 2100 baht.  Well worth the money.  Based on the savings we are seeing the system will pay for itself in about 7 years.

[CecilM]

If you’re not there permanently, there is chance that some neighbor hooked himself into your electricity. (Talking from second hand experience in our condo.)

But, then again 36kBTU is massive and if they old or not well maintained then they’ll suck up the kW quickly. 

[sometimewoodworker]

9 hours ago, JensenZ said:

It might also be worth noting that my FT was exactly the same as the member I replied to who indicated it's current rate, 0.9119, so we are both on the same subset of uers. The differences of subsets are probably insignificant.

The rate ranges from almost zero to the maximum rate you specify. So for the users who pay the minimum and lower FT rates the difference is far from insignificant. For you 100 Baht extra per month is certainly insignificant, for those effected it is not.

[JayBird]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:22 PM, KannikaP said:

I have a phone app called ECAS into which I input the main meter reading every morning as I pass it to take the dog for his ablutions. I do the water as well.

I also have a unit in my Consumer Unit (fuse box for us oldies) which sends via Tuya,  total and instant consumption figures to my phone. 

 

What unit did you put in your fuse box?  I might wanna try that

[moogradod]

36 minutes ago, CecilM said:

If you’re not there permanently, there is chance that some neighbor hooked himself into your electricity. (Talking from second hand experience in our condo.)

But, then again 36kBTU is massive and if they old or not well maintained then they’ll suck up the kW quickly. 

When we enter the living room from outside without having switched on the AC, temperatures have been measured up to 45 degr. Celsius. The original Seijo Denki with 24'000 BTU had to be replaced (by us) for it did not noticeably cool the room. We moved this AC to another place in the room as backup and emergency cooler. The current Daikin Ceiling Mounted with 36kBTU is brandnew - and frankly even this one does not really cool down the temperatures as quickly as I want. After some hours of so about 24 degrees can be reached, just like I want it. Our ACs in the condo now are set to 23-24 degrees and it takes some minutes to get to this.

[jojothai]

On 7/2/2023 at 4:37 PM, moogradod said:

For sure they are single speed. ???? We find out one by one that a lot of changes are necessary. Like aircons (not strong enough) and maybe all of the windows and doors (a security issue). I will ask the builder. For sure it costs again a fortune to exchange them for "multi-speed". Must be the equivalent of an AC inverter - I have no knowledge about pools and their pumps.

As pointed out, the pool pumps may be consuming around 1KW each and could be a very big consumption if on all daytime.
I recommend that you have the pumps running and switch off the aircons for two to three hours. (Perhaps when you go out shopping / eating etc.
Take the meter readings before and after to see how much power they are consuming.
Mutiply to the number of hours and days for the monthly bill.
This will give you the consumption estimates for the pumps against your bill reading.

[moogradod]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:57 PM, MrJ2U said:

Variable speed pump cost me about (Emaux) 45,000 baht from Ali Baba.  It cut pump electricity by half, running 390-400 watts an hour. Swimming Pools Thailand has them.  Good warranty, Bangkok repair if needed. 

 

https://swimmingpoolsthailand.com/en/191-variable-speed-pumps

 

 

I also added a Tuya Smart Plug from Lazada To check the electricity usage. 

 

Next house, gated with a community pool.  Pools are just expensive and a chore in my opinion.  Great now with young kids though.

 

 

 

Where do you put the Tuya Monitor Plug if you want to measure

1. The Ceiling Mounted AC

2. The pool pumps

 

If you wire it somehow to the brakeout box, does this not interfere with the "inspection" that might be performed by the authorities once the builder changes from Production to Permanent Tariff (if he has not done this yet).

[BenStark]

3 minutes ago, moogradod said:

When we enter the living room from outside without having switched on the AC, temperatures have been measured up to 45 degr. Celsius.

Sounds to me as if you have an insulation issue.

 

In my house I have aircon in every room, but I only use it in the bedroom at night.

 

In my office I have the ceiling fan on the lowest speed. I have a digital thermometer in the kitchen where I don't even open the fan, and have never measured a temperature higher than 32 degr.

 

My digital thermometer has a memory, so I can see the highest and lowest temperature ever reached.

 

 

[KannikaP]

16 minutes ago, JayBird said:

What unit did you put in your fuse box?  I might wanna try that

Look up Electricity Usage Meter DIN on Lazdada, there are many of them. The one I got last year is no longer available!

[moogradod]

6 minutes ago, BenStark said:

Sounds to me as if you have an insulation issue.

 

In my house I have aircon in every room, but I only use it in the bedroom at night.

 

In my office I have the ceiling fan on the lowest speed. I have a digital thermometer in the kitchen where I don't even open the fan, and have never measured a temperature higher than 32 degr.

 

My digital thermometer has a memory, so I can see the highest and lowest temperature ever reached.

 

 

Unfortunately you may be very much correct. I have already located someone who can reinforce the ceiling insulation using foam from the inside and we are currently discussing security glass anyway which has a build in heat protection layer (if we can and want to afford it - it might be very expensive due to import from Germany - but it would be the same glass that was used to build the English Embassy in Laos.

 

By the way, 32 degrees is not what I really hoping for. I moved here from Switzerland and at night the windows in the sleeping room were open at times. A question of the blanket (filled with real feathers). Our condo now has comfortable 24 degrees.

[moogradod]

Thank you all very much by the way. ???? ☺️ ???? This is one of the most helpful threads for me ever.here on AN.

[moogradod]

1 hour ago, statman78 said:

As others have mentioned, the pool pump uses a lot of electricity.  Our pool pump is on a time and we run it for a couple of hours in the morning and a couple in the afternoon and that is enough for us.  We also added a solar panel system for our entire house. Our bills during the hot months were close to 6000 baht.  Last month our bill was only 2100 baht.  Well worth the money.  Based on the savings we are seeing the system will pay for itself in about 7 years.

May I ask what company ? 4K saving per month is 48k per year. This makes 336K for the whole system (I hope incl. installation) to give the ROI you say. Indeed this would be interesting. Is it off grid as well ? At night at least 2 aircons run in our house. The Seijo Denki kind with 12000 BTU and SEER 15.4 unfortunately. The fridge which I thought takes huge amounts of energy uses but 130W. Probably per hour so 3120W per day. About the same as our Main Daikin. I am playing with the idea to install Solar just for the fridge, two washing machines and one dishwasher, which will run as well every day. But I need a knowledgeable and fair company that discusses with me everything - if possible near Pong, Chonburi as can be.

[Woof999]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:04 AM, bluejets said:

Sweet next to nothing saving there............look at high consumption devices. and better get used to high energy costs as it's on the way up everywhere.

Even more reason to change the bulbs as a quick win.

 

A single 100W incandescent bulb running only 3 hours per day is using roughly 8kW of additional energy over and above it's LED equivalent in a month. It will pay for itself in 2 months on direct energy usage alone.

 

Add to that, it's pumping out around 95 additional watts of heat all the time that it is on, which will make the aircon work just that little harder.

 

That's just one bulb running for only 3 hours per day. I would guess that I have the equivalent of around 30 100 watt bulbs running for around 8 hours per day. Some will have more, some less. That is around 3000 baht per month lost if they were incandescent, ignoring the additional heat factor.

 

It's a no-brainer. It's also not something you should do instead of replacing heavy drain items, just a quick win with little effort and little outlay.

[Pib]

 

OP,

   As soon as I saw your comments below where you are running  pool pumps during the day and occasional A/C usage "which is included one BIG 36KBTU A/C" (the 36K BTU is probably probably uses a double high outside fan unit which contains a BIG compressor...see image at bottom....an if it's "not" an invertor A/C then it will use about 35% more power than an invertor) I came to conclusion you are probably unaware that A/Cs, whether invertor or fixed speed A/Cs), can be BIG energy consumers....cost more to run than expected/assumed especially if you have been use to living in a small condo which takes a lot less to kept cool.    

 

The OP said:

Quote

On the occasional visits we use 2 aircons, one with 36KBTU (Seer around 20) and one with 12KBTU (Seer around 16). There is no fridge running, limited lighting, but the pool pumps are running during the day and will be switched off at night. Currently we rarely visit the house and if, then only for a short time.

 

    Assuming where you said, "....total amount by the kwh as shown on the bill a rate of more than 5 emerges...

that means over Bt5 per KWH (it's your use of the word "emerges" that confuses me) then that means you are on a standard residential rate which would work out to around Bt5.5 when the basic rate, Ft charge, meter fee, tax, etc., is included.  

 

     To help narrow down what equipment is using the most energy you should first turn off all power to your house using the main breaker and then check your electric meter to ensure it shows no power being drawn.    If power is still being drawn then you have a problem....an electrical parasite.  Hopefully your meter has a "wheel" that turns when power is being drawn....with such a meter even the slightest amount of power being drawn will show movement of that wheel.  If running something like a pump, A/C, etc., the turning of the wheel can be easily seen moving along at a good clip....a very slow clip when little power is being drawn.  Now if a meter doesn't have a wheel then it can get harder to immediately see a small usage of power unless you watch for a digital readout change after after 30 to 60 minutes....a lot depends on the design of that digital meter as to if/how it shows a small usage of power.

 

   You should also try to monitor your usage over a typical 24 hours of usage (day and night) "in order to get an idea of your typical daily usage"....you can then divide this by 24 to get an hourly usage which can come in handy for testing purposes. 

 

    Now that you have some ballpark figures for usage over a 24 hour and hourly timeframes do some testing by running and not running certain equipment for an hour.   Like if you keep that BIG 36K BTU A/C turned off for an hour did that hourly usage drop a lot.  Even testing that small 12K BTU A/C by turning it off and on for hour will show a very significant power usage change.  

 

     I also have a voltage/ammeter on the line coming into my home main circuit box....this makes it real easy to see what equipment uses the most power/amperage.  Like when my water pump kicks on the amperage jumps up around 3 amps while the pump is running.  It also allows you to see/test amperage/power draw of say an A/C....a very good way to get immediate feedback on how much energy different energy hogs in your house use when running.....then use some math as to how much that equates to baht wise over an hour, day, week, month, etc.

 

    I think you are going to find out your pool pumps and A/Cs are using more power than you thought they would use....you were just assuming they would not cost that much to run....but reality costs has now struck.   I doubt you will find anyone is tapping into you power line....that can be a common reaction when your electric bill is more than you were expecting.  

 

    I have a 2 story house in Bangkok....have 7 A/Cs in the house but only two of them are used routinely....the other 5 only get turned on for around 15 minutes every month or so to ensure they still work/exercise them a little.  All A/Cs are set for a 26C temp....a setting of 21-23C would use a good amount more power since the A/Cs would have to work harder.    The two A/Cs that get used a lot each day are  Mitsubishi Invertor 24K BTU A/Cs.....one runs 24/7 to and the other for around 10-12 hours only during the night.   I have 3 frigs and 3 fans that run pretty much 24/7....and then the typical fluorescent/LED lighting, TVs, routers, and other typical electrical stuff found in most households.  No pool.  Just have a home water pump that only turns on when drawing water within/around the house.  

 

     My electric bill runs from the 13th to 13th of each month...for the last three months (HOT months) my KWH usage/bill  has been 1407KWH/Bt7847 for Apr, 1528KWH/Bt8541 for May, and 1508 KWH/Bt8390 for June.....I expect around 80% of those bills is due to those two 24K BTU A/Cs.

 

 

***************************************

A 36K BTU A/C is a BIG A/C.  

 

[Stevemercer]

'On the occasional visits we use 2 aircons, one with 36KBTU (Seer around 20) and one with 12KBTU (Seer around 16).'

 

I'm not really sure what this means, but if the settings are 20 degrees and 16 degrees you will have a high bill becasue the ACs will be working flat out when on. A setting of 26 degrees is more typical and comfortable?

Edited July 4, 2023 by Stevemercer

[Hamus Yaigh]

TBH all these electric bills seem quite reasonable if you want to live with aircons all day and run swimming pools. I do neither and prefer a fan room temp in the high 20's low 30's anyway so bills are much lower and a home where the wind if any can blow through. Winter times are a boon if it drops to 25C but I can take it or leave it. Never been keen on aircons.

[MrJ2U]

1 hour ago, moogradod said:

The pool pumps

The Pool pump isn't hard wired so I just plugged it in.

 

I don't know how to do it with an Aircon.  That's hard wired to the breaker box.  

 

 

[moogradod]

8 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

'On the occasional visits we use 2 aircons, one with 36KBTU (Seer around 20) and one with 12KBTU (Seer around 16).'

 

I'm not really sure what this means, but if the settings are 20 degrees and 16 degrees you will have a high bill becasue the ACs will be working flat out when on. A setting of 26 degrees is more typical and comfortable?

Here is what SEER means: https://www.hvac.com/expert-advice/what-is-seer-rating/

 

In short: It is a measure for the ACs efficiency. The higher the SEER value, the less energy is necessary to produce one BTU. 20 or more is excellent, 16 so la la.

[Fairynuff]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:13 PM, moogradod said:

which might result in inferior performance, probably overload, higher electricity bills etc.

My fridge/freezer is not in an air conditioned room, it’s around 8 years old and still works perfectly. I can’t imagine how much extra I’d have paid to keep it air conditioned but probably enough to buy 2 or 3 new fridges had my existing one failed due to overload. 

[Fairynuff]

On 7/2/2023 at 5:20 PM, moogradod said:

Our electricity CONDO bill was a bit more than 11000 THB last month. And it is but a 150m2 condo. But this might have been because of the extensive use of AC. Has never been that high, normal was 7000 or even below 6000 in the past.

My condo is a similar size. I have 2 bedrooms using AC at night. My open plan living kitchen is never air conditioned because I use ceiling fans all day until bedtime. My bills were rarely above 2,000/month until May when it topped 4,000.

[Yellowtail]

At the end of the day, SEER ratings do not mean a whole lot as far as savings go. 

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, moogradod said:

Unfortunately you may be very much correct. I have already located someone who can reinforce the ceiling insulation using foam from the inside and we are currently discussing security glass anyway which has a build in heat protection layer (if we can and want to afford it - it might be very expensive due to import from Germany - but it would be the same glass that was used to build the English Embassy in Laos.

Ceiling insulation is a very good idea, using spray PU foam is not, Spray PU foam has its place, it is however very expensive for the degree of insulation provided a roll of standard insulation either 200mm or better 400mm will be a fraction of the cost and more effective.

 

There is absolutely no need or benefit of importing glass into Thailand as there are world class makers of glass domestically. I also very much doubt that the English Embassy in Laos (I had conversations with the person who was responsible for the contract) used imported glass. They certainly used security laminated glass probably in IGUs (I don’t remember if that was mentioned) and that would have been imported but from Thailand not Germany. The frames for the glass however was imported from Germany so that is probably where your confusion came from, together with the fact that the original negotiator is not with the same company today.

 

The security glass is in fact at least 2 sheets one of which has heat protection if you choose (it is not automatically selected), it is more probably 3 sheets constructed as an IGU, and if you want the best sound reduction you should vary the thickness of the glass.