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Israel is at War - General discussion (pt2)


CharlieH

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There is an article by Gwynne Dyer, a military historian from Canada,  in the opinion section of today's Bangkok Post about the bombing of Gaza and the bombing of Germany in WW II.

I found his views on both subjects very interesting. 

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On 12/22/2023 at 5:07 AM, rabas said:

 

Completely disproving your carpet bombing hypothesis. They use 60% smart bombs and sophisticated computerized bombsites with the other bombs. 

So, you are saying they deliberately targeted buildings with 7,000 children in them to be blown up as they have such accurate bombs now. Tell us if that isn't what you meant.

Edited by thaibeachlovers
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15 hours ago, placeholder said:

And what is Israel signaling?

Hostages must be released as per UN resolution, Hagari says
IDF spokesman Daniel Hagari has given his reaction to the UN resolution adopted by the Security Council earlier today.

Hagari noted that the resolution includes a demand for the "unconditional immediate release of the hostages held by Hamas and to allow humanitarian access to address their medical needs".

"We call on the international community and international organisations to enforce this resolution," Hagari said in a statement.

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Not much going to change here, Hamas is not going to release hostages and the aid problem was not because of a hold up by Israel (according to them)

 

UN Security Council passes resolution to boost humanitarian aid access to Gaza

The UN Security Council on Friday passed a key resolution, emphasizing the immediate acceleration of aid deliveries to the distressed civilians in Gaza, but without the original call for an "urgent suspension of hostilities" between Israel and Hamas.

The text also demands the "immediate and unconditional release of all hostages," as well as ensuring humanitarian access to address medical needs of all hostages, noting that the provision of fuel to Gaza should meet requisite humanitarian needs.

 

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3 hours ago, Lorry said:

There is an article by Gwynne Dyer, a military historian from Canada,  in the opinion section of today's Bangkok Post about the bombing of Gaza and the bombing of Germany in WW II.

I found his views on both subjects very interesting. 

 

It's a nonsense article.

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From the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres a few hours ago after the security Council Resolution.

 

Nothing can possibly justify the horrific terror attacks launched by Hamas on 7 October, or the brutal abduction of some 250 hostages.

I repeat my call for all remaining hostages to be released immediately and unconditionally.

 

image.png.da4fe67f5451e3531d59b7419669bb96.png

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1738338451303350381

 

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On 12/21/2023 at 11:07 PM, rabas said:

 

Completely disproving your carpet bombing hypothesis. They use 60% smart bombs and sophisticated computerized bombsites with the other bombs. 

Most reliable reporting is exactly the opposite. 60+% dumb bombs, 30-% expensive smart bombs. 

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Most peeps aren't x military. The devastation they are seeing in Gaza, they are choosing to describe as 'carpet bombing' because it is a catchy war-time phrase they have heard. Whether it is an accurate, legal, description or not, it accurately describes what a lay-person sees and perceives. 

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14 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Most reliable reporting is exactly the opposite. 60+% dumb bombs, 30-% expensive smart bombs. 

 

Not withstanding it's not about percentages as oft suggested even in your post above. 

 

To try for multiple errors, the prior poster's link that I referenced (from CNN and US officials) says:

 

"The intelligence report was published in CNN. The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided."

 

How's your math?

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4 minutes ago, rabas said:

 

Not withstanding it's not about percentages as oft suggested even in your post above. 

 

To try for multiple errors, the prior poster's link that I referenced (from CNN and US officials) says:

 

"The intelligence report was published in CNN. The assessment, compiled by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence says that about 40-45% of the 29,000 air-to-ground munitions Israel has used have been unguided."

 

How's your math?

 

It's totally irrelevant whether the bombs were dumb or smart. The vast bulk of them were dropped accurately and hit their intended targets. It's nuts to think that the Israeli airforce, uncontested in the sky, missed a significant proportion of their bomb drops. Not only that, but with over 200 2,000 lb bombs it would be hard to miss.

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36 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

 

It's totally irrelevant whether the bombs were dumb or smart. The vast bulk of them were dropped accurately and hit their intended targets. It's nuts to think that the Israeli airforce, uncontested in the sky, missed a significant proportion of their bomb drops. Not only that, but with over 200 2,000 lb bombs it would be hard to miss.

 

@ozimoron

 

What are you on about?

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14 hours ago, rabas said:

(Lol, word twist!) 

 

The prior poster claimed IDF's low percentage of precision munitions = 'carpet bombing', none of which was true, even the percentage, according to poster's own links. 

 

As ex-military you know that tunnel busting munitions punching pinholes every 10 meters down a street is not carpet bombing. And that flattening buildings while leaving surrounding buildings untouched is, not, carpet bombing. You also know that warning civilians to leave in advance is not 'targeting children'. 

 

Hamas forbidding family and children to flee is. 

Why is it necessary to flatten an entire residential building to kill a Hamas fighter?

You are either ignorant of the extent of the damage in Gaza, or don't care.

 

Hamas forbidding family and children to flee is. 

Proof or that is a lie. IDF sources are not acceptable as proof.

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1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Why is it necessary to flatten an entire residential building to kill a Hamas fighter?

You are either ignorant of the extent of the damage in Gaza, or don't care.

 

Hamas forbidding family and children to flee is. 

Proof or that is a lie. IDF sources are not acceptable as proof.

Just because its not in your favorite propaganda outlet Al Jazeera does not make it a lie. There are plenty of links back those facts up. Hamas are well documented in using civilians as human shields, to think they would not stop them from leaving certain areas shows your ignorance. 

 

Hamas preventing Gaza residents from fleeing to safety, Palestinian activist says

 

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Just watching an item on Al Jazeera showing the destruction of Nuseirat refugee camp in Gaza. I missed the name but I think that is the camp affected. The entire area has been bombed to destruction. I doubt anything has been like it since carpet bombing of German cities in WW2.

 

Pictures available on google images

https://www.google.com/search?q=destruction+of+Nuseirat+in+gaza&client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=593318739&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi19bC-zqaDAxWSwTgGHdv9Bf8Q_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=956&bih=418&dpr=1.43#imgrc=YYhbr2nOwYSTbM

 

Nothing can justify destruction like that, It is obviously far more than trying to destroy Hamas fighters.

The image you linked to above is from 18th Oct and does not show carpet bombing

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Someone is lying , Two news stories that apparently describe the same air strike on the same building in Gaza City. Israel says it tricked dozens of militants to run into a Hamas command center and then struck the building. Hamas says the strike killed 76 members of the same family, including women and children.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/troops-kill-dozens-of-hamas-gunmen-in-north-gaza-idf-says-200-arrested-in-past-week/

 

"Troops kill dozens of Hamas gunmen in north Gaza, IDF says; 200 arrested in past week

Army says it intentionally caused dozens of gunmen to flee into building used as command center, then called in an airstrike; rockets target south for first time in nearly 48 hours"

 

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-12-23-2023-982fae4d0802b20d2a90423445c9f64b

 

"More than 90 Palestinians, including dozens from an extended family, were killed in Israeli airstrikes on two homes in Gaza," 

 

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More disturbing first hand accounts of hostages who have been released with some having suffered violent sexual assaults. 

 

‘We’ll never forgive’: Mom, daughter on life of fear in Gaza captivity, pain upon return

image.png.b7d251aeb95bd9a881329c916e70974a.png

She added that before the attack, “We believed that there are no bad people — only people who have it bad. But there are bad people.”

Agam described one incident in which the family was staying at a school where “a nice woman welcomed us and offered us water and arranged a place for us to sleep,” and “I turned to my mother and said ‘There are good people in the world.'”

“And five minutes later, they shot a barrage of rockets from the school [into Israel] and everyone was shouting ‘Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar’ and I told her, ‘Forget what I said, they’re all the same.'”

In the last week of their captivity in Gaza before their release, they were again taken into tunnels, where they met other hostages.

“There were girls there who were alone, alone for 50 days, 19-year-olds, alone, who went through difficult things, personally. They were violated, harmed, some were injured,” Chen said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/we-will-never-forgive-freed-hostages-describe-intense-fear-in-gaza-captivity/

 

'We know they were raped in Hamas captivity': Chilling details of what hostages faced

image.png.6aaf4424b9d7c76734eda05ee1c01ed1.png

Two Israeli doctors, who have been treating released hostages, and an Israeli military official familiar with the matter confirmed to USA TODAY that some released hostages revealed they suffered violent sexual assaults in captivity.

All three spoke on the condition of anonymity.

One of the doctors assessed that "many" of the released Israeli female hostages aged 12 to 48 − there are about 30 of them − were sexually assaulted while held by Hamas in Gaza.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2023/12/20/hamas-sexual-violence-rape-hostages-oct-7/71917113007/

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19 minutes ago, Morch said:

Other than that, no traction. All the stuff you're 'sure' of, didn't happen

Not according to what I have been notified of.  But if you are correct, then that's fine, I won't have been accused of dodging the questions as I was before - by someone who seemed to think he could demand immediate replies.

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