Netanyahu rejects claims accusing Israel of genocide in Gaza

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

 

The point is that you try hard to push a certain issue. It doesn't get as much traction as you expect, so you do whatever you can to 'engage' posters on anything semi-related, so that you can sneak it in again.

 

I'm not obligated to comment on what you wish me to. You do not get to dictate such things.

 

I said that you were nitpicking (a whole lot of posts ago, which goes toward the 'give it a rest' part), and you were.

 

Cornered how? I have not even commented on what you're trying to push. You're just making up stuff about the discussion.

Maybe it hasn't gained much traction with you and your fellow travelers. But it has clearly gained traction with people like Anthony Blinken. Anthony Blimken said the food situation in Gaza was deteriorating. And he gave that speech from the WorldWfood Program warehouse. That's the same organization whose report you attempted to undermine with unsupported speculation about how they reach their decisions. Are you so naive to believe that delivering the message from the WFP warehouse out of all possible venues wasn't Bliken'sway of making a point? You think the US doesn't have its own independent intelligence sources to ascertain what's going on in Gaza? You think the issue of mass starvation has no bearing on the issue of genocide?

Edited January 9 by placeholder

[placeholder]

Another eye-witness report. This one from Save the Children dated Dec 9th.

 

"The repeated failure of the international community to act signifies a death knell to children. Israel is squeezing Palestinian children and families into ‘death zones’ dubbed as ‘safe zones.’ I’ve seen children and families roaming the streets of what hasn’t been flattened in Gaza, with no food, nowhere to go, and nothing to survive on. Even the internationally-funded humanitarian aid response – Gaza’s last lifeline - has been choked by Israeli-imposed restrictions."

  https://www.savethechildren.net/news/deaths-starvation-and-disease-may-top-deaths-bombs-families-squeezed-deadly-safe-zones-two

 

 

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Maybe it hasn't gained much traction with you and your fellow travelers. But it has clearly gained traction with people like Anthony Blinken. Anthony Blimken said the food situation in Gaza was deteriorating. And he gave that speech from the WorldWfood Program warehouse. That's the same organization whose report you attempted to undermine with unsupported speculation about how they reach their decisions. Are you so naive to believe that delivering the message from the WFP warehouse out of all possible venues wasn't Bliken'sway of making a point? You think the US doesn't have its own independent intelligence sources to ascertain what's going on in Gaza? You think the issue of mass starvation has no bearing on the issue of genocide?

 

As far as I'm aware, Blinken is not a member of this forum, so if you want to discuss things with him, you'll have to find another way to contact his office. As for 'your fellow travelers' - not just 'mine', it what happens to a whole lot of your comments. People are apparently less interested in your style of debate and argumentative posting.

 

I did not attempt to 'undermine' anything but your earlier comments, which weren't well thought out or written. You can't accept it, so you keep making up stuff, digging deeper, and so on.

 

What I believe and think is that you've found a new pet 'issue', and that you insist everyone play along and 'discuss' it according to your dictates. Tough luck.

[Hawaiian]

1 hour ago, Jeff the Chef said:

 

Maybe the long term trend is going to change now that the social media brigade are avidly watching and learning.

Erdogan has taken a secular state and turned it into an Islamic republic.  When dealing with the West he denies it.  And when dealing with the Arab world it is all about Islam. As Morch says, he is all over the page. 

As long as Putin is in power, Russia's allies are only friends of convenience.

[placeholder]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

As far as I'm aware, Blinken is not a member of this forum, so if you want to discuss things with him, you'll have to find another way to contact his office. As for 'your fellow travelers' - not just 'mine', it what happens to a whole lot of your comments. People are apparently less interested in your style of debate and argumentative posting.

 

I did not attempt to 'undermine' anything but your earlier comments, which weren't well thought out or written. You can't accept it, so you keep making up stuff, digging deeper, and so on.

 

What I believe and think is that you've found a new pet 'issue', and that you insist everyone play along and 'discuss' it according to your dictates. Tough luck.

Once you posted those unsupported claims about the WPF you pretty much opened up your stance to criticism. That reality has overwhelmingly established how baseless they were I guess leaves you with no other recourse than not to address this issue.

[placeholder]

From Alex DeWaal at the World Peace Foundation at Tufts Univeristy

Gaza’s Famine Warning in Perspective

This blog post puts the famine warning in Gaza in perspective. It refers to two standard metrics for identifying famine and other degrees of food crisis. It outlines how starvation can be a war crime and a famine crime. 

https://www.savethechildren.net/news/deaths-starvation-and-disease-may-top-deaths-bombs-families-squeezed-deadly-safe-zones-two

 

The article notes that it's not necessary for famine to be a war crime only if the infliction of it is intentional. If a nations shows reckless disregard for the consequences of its actions that result in famine, that can also constitute a war crime.

[Yellowtail]

5 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Once you posted those unsupported claims about the WPF you pretty much opened up your stance to criticism. That reality has overwhelmingly established how baseless they were I guess leaves you with no other recourse than not to address this issue.

So what do you think Isarel should be doing differently? 

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Once you posted those unsupported claims about the WPF you pretty much opened up your stance to criticism. That reality has overwhelmingly established how baseless they were I guess leaves you with no other recourse than not to address this issue.

 

Unsupported how? You seem to be having imaginary discussions in which you're a 'winner'. Kinda sad.

What you 'guess' is entirely up to you - I have actually posted several times now regarding engaging with you on this and other issues. You want to make up stuff to fit your fantasies, that's up to you.

 

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Unsupported how? You seem to be having imaginary discussions in which you're a 'winner'. Kinda sad.

What you 'guess' is entirely up to you - I have actually posted several times now regarding engaging with you on this and other issues. You want to make up stuff to fit your fantasies, that's up to you.

 

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, placeholder said:

 

Yes, and?

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

care to elaborate?

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, placeholder said:

care to elaborate?

 

Care to pay attention to what's posted?

 

(a)

Already have, these topic have been running for a while now, and the same things come up over and over again.

 

(b)

That's your pet 'issue', which you push hard. Like others, not much interested in your contrived arguments and 'debate' style.

Edited January 9 by Morch

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Care to pay attention to what's posted?

 

(a)

Already have, these topic have been running for a while now, and the same things come up over and over again.

 

(b)

That's your pet 'issue', which you push hard. Like others, not much interested in your contrived arguments and 'debate' style.

Basically, you made all sorts of generalizations without providing any evidence to back them up. What's more, there were plenty of eyewitness reports to back up what they were claiming. I haven't seen any eyewitness reports that say starvation isn't a huge problem in Gaza. And, now, in the face of overwhelming evidence, you offer nothing. It's obvious that mass starvation is a real thing in Gaza. And that it's obviously relevant to the issue of genocide.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Basically, you made all sorts of generalizations without providing any evidence to back them up. What's more, there were plenty of eyewitness reports to back up what they were claiming. I haven't seen any eyewitness reports that say starvation isn't a huge problem in Gaza. And, now, in the face of overwhelming evidence, you offer nothing. It's obvious that mass starvation is a real thing in Gaza. And that it's obviously relevant to the issue of genocide.

 

Basically, you construe imaginary arguments, and then 'win' them.

I offer that I'm not interested in your nonsense, 'debate' style and petty argumentative way of engaging people.

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Basically, you construe imaginary arguments, and then 'win' them.

I offer that I'm not interested in your nonsense, 'debate' style and petty argumentative way of engaging people.

Please. You offered no evidence. 

[Bkk Brian]

22 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

The international news clearly shows that Israel is committing ongoing and daily various war crimes in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

South Africa's legal presentation at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) is highly persuasive, containing an 84-page document outlining disturbing crimes targeting civilians, medical facilities, journalists, UN facilities, schools, infrastructure, and more.

 

It is hoped that the ICJ judges will recognize what some Western politicians may have overlooked or chosen not to address and issue an order to stop the genocide.

Interesting. You mention journalists being killed that form part of this fact less S.A. submission to the ICJ.

 

I notice Al Jazeera made a big thing about this one but of course failed to mention why the car was hit by IDF.

 

IDF: Al Jazeera journalists were killed in car with drone-operating terror operative

The Israel Defense Forces responded late Sunday to reports of the deaths of two Palestinian journalists working for Al Jazeera in an Israeli airstrike in the southern Gaza Strip earlier in the day, saying the pair were traveling in a vehicle with a terror operative who was operating a drone.

In Sunday’s strike in Rafah, Hamza Wael Dahdouh, the son of Al Jazeera’s Gaza correspondent Wael Al-Dahdouh, and Mustafa Thuria, a video stringer for AFP who was also working for the Qatar-based TV outlet, were both killed. A third journalist, Hazem Rajab, was seriously wounded, Al Jazeera said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-al-jazeera-journalists-were-killed-in-car-with-drone-operating-terror-operative

 

 

 

[Morch]

21 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Please. You offered no evidence. 

 

[Nick Carter icp]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

Interesting. You mention journalists being killed that form part of this fact less S.A. submission to the ICJ.

 

I notice Al Jazeera made a big thing about this one but of course failed to mention why the car was hit by IDF.

 

IDF: Al Jazeera journalists were killed in car with drone-operating terror operative

The Israel Defense Forces responded late Sunday to reports of the deaths of two Palestinian journalists working for Al Jazeera in an Israeli airstrike in the southern Gaza Strip earlier in the day, saying the pair were traveling in a vehicle with a terror operative who was operating a drone.

In Sunday’s strike in Rafah, Hamza Wael Dahdouh, the son of Al Jazeera’s Gaza correspondent Wael Al-Dahdouh, and Mustafa Thuria, a video stringer for AFP who was also working for the Qatar-based TV outlet, were both killed. A third journalist, Hazem Rajab, was seriously wounded, Al Jazeera said.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-al-jazeera-journalists-were-killed-in-car-with-drone-operating-terror-operative

 

 

   Al-Jazeera journalists were in the same car as a terror group leader 

[Bkk Brian]

1 minute ago, Nick Carter icp said:

 

   Al-Jazeera journalists were in the same car as a terror group leader 

Yep, surprise surprise, but then Gaza is like that, even a UN staff was holding one of the hostages

[Neeranam]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

As far as I'm aware, Blinken is not a member of this forum, so if you want to discuss things with him, you'll have to find another way to contact his office. As for 'your fellow travelers' - not just 'mine', it what happens to a whole lot of your comments. People are apparently less interested in your style of debate and argumentative posting.

 

I did not attempt to 'undermine' anything but your earlier comments, which weren't well thought out or written. You can't accept it, so you keep making up stuff, digging deeper, and so on.

 

What I believe and think is that you've found a new pet 'issue', and that you insist everyone play along and 'discuss' it according to your dictates. Tough luck.

 ...

Edited January 9 by Neeranam

[Bkk Brian]

There is plenty of evidence that Hamas has been up to its old trick of stealing aid, hijackings the trucks, even shooting at the civilians who shout at them, then making use of it for its own needs or selling it on at high prices. However the UN has been quiet on this, why? They weren't always like that. In Gaza back in 2009 the UN was robust and not scared to call Hamas out for stealing food and aid that was destined for the Gaza population. So robust that they even suspended that aid until Hamas handed it all back.

 

UN suspends aid operation after second Hamas-linked theft of supplies – UN news item

6 February 2009 – The main United Nations relief agency responsible for feeding 900,000 Palestinian refugees in Gaza today suspended all imports of desperately needed aid after Hamas confiscated hundreds of tons of food, the second such seizure in three days.

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon demanded that Hamas immediately return the food to the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA), which said its suspension would remain in force until such a return and “the Agency is given credible assurances from the Hamas government in Gaza that there will be no repeat of these thefts.”

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-209885/

 

I guess after all these years, considering that the majority of civilians supported Hamas, the local UN orgs and red cross etc ended up employing a good proportion, I suspect this has had a huge influence on how things have changed at the UN locally in Gaza. Again plenty of evidence and links to support all that already provided in the various topics.

 

That said the amount being stolen by Hamas is not the cause of the food shortages overall, that's more to do with the logistics of actually getting it delivered in a war zone. Not the amount coming in as there is enough but the actual distribution. This is well highlighted by the UN, places nearer to the borders have more food, the further North you go the more scarce it becomes. The IDF carries out humanitarian pauses each day in most districts but obviously while a full scale war is going on a convoy of trucks travelling up North is still a huge risk.

 

Unfortunately with Hamas turning down another weeks ceasefire recently for a further hostage/prisoner swap, this would have been an ideal opportunity for much needed distribution.

[Danny Australia]

This Lawyer Reveals Why Israel's Gaza Onslaught Could Be Stopped By Genocide Case (youtube.com)

 

Daniel Machover, a highly qualified Jewish lawyer based in London with very interesting family history, provides insights into the Genocide case at the ICJ, highlighting the following important aspects:

-          The specific reason for South Africa's legal action at the ICJ.

-          South Africa will have no problem providing evidence of Israeli conduct and intent in relation to Genocide (lot of statements by Israeli PM, politicians etc calling Palestinians human animals, cutting of food, water and power supplies, reference to nuke Gaza, Wipe them all out, no innocent people in Gaza etc.)

-          The focus on presenting a plausible legal argument rather than proving genocide has occurred at this early stage. SA aims to demonstrate the potential for genocide and the associated risk to the lives of Palestinians as an entity.

-          While the court case itself may extend over several years, there is the possibility of the ICJ issuing immediate provisional measures to Israel, urging a halt to current actions in Gaza.

-          The UN Security Council possesses the authority to enforce court orders, but Israel has a history of non-compliance with UN directives.

-          The potential use of a veto by the United States in the proceedings.

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

This Lawyer Reveals Why Israel's Gaza Onslaught Could Be Stopped By Genocide Case (youtube.com)

 

Daniel Machover, a highly qualified Jewish lawyer based in London with very interesting family history, provides insights into the Genocide case at the ICJ, highlighting the following important aspects:

-          The specific reason for South Africa's legal action at the ICJ.

-          South Africa will have no problem providing evidence of Israeli conduct and intent in relation to Genocide (lot of statements by Israeli PM, politicians etc calling Palestinians human animals, cutting of food, water and power supplies, reference to nuke Gaza, Wipe them all out, no innocent people in Gaza etc.)

-          The focus on presenting a plausible legal argument rather than proving genocide has occurred at this early stage. SA aims to demonstrate the potential for genocide and the associated risk to the lives of Palestinians as an entity.

-          While the court case itself may extend over several years, there is the possibility of the ICJ issuing immediate provisional measures to Israel, urging a halt to current actions in Gaza.

-          The UN Security Council possesses the authority to enforce court orders, but Israel has a history of non-compliance with UN directives.

-          The potential use of a veto by the United States in the proceedings.

 

A anti-Israeli poster linking a clip from an anti-Israeli reporter who interviews an anti-Israel, anti-Zionist lawyer.

About as balanced as can be expected.

 

Essentially, nothing new there that wasn't covered in the many links and comments so far.

Edited January 9 by Morch

[Danny Australia]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

A anti-Israeli poster linking a clip from an anti-Israeli reporter who interviews an anti-Israel, anti-Zionist lawyer.

About as balanced as can be expected.

 

Essentially, nothing new there that wasn't covered in the many links and comments so far.

 

The immediate reply indicates that you have not bothered, as usual, to watch the interview. The interview should be evaluated based on the legal argument itself instead of who making these valid legal assessments. 

Nothing new here from known posters who deny any wrongdoing in Gaza by Israel and blindly continue to defend war crimes and genocide.

Continuously attacking people who disagree with you is a sign of weak argument and won't stop us from exposing the first ever live streamed genocide. 

[Bkk Brian]

25 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

This Lawyer Reveals Why Israel's Gaza Onslaught Could Be Stopped By Genocide Case (youtube.com)

 

Daniel Machover, a highly qualified Jewish lawyer based in London with very interesting family history, provides insights into the Genocide case at the ICJ, highlighting the following important aspects:

-          The specific reason for South Africa's legal action at the ICJ.

-          South Africa will have no problem providing evidence of Israeli conduct and intent in relation to Genocide (lot of statements by Israeli PM, politicians etc calling Palestinians human animals, cutting of food, water and power supplies, reference to nuke Gaza, Wipe them all out, no innocent people in Gaza etc.)

-          The focus on presenting a plausible legal argument rather than proving genocide has occurred at this early stage. SA aims to demonstrate the potential for genocide and the associated risk to the lives of Palestinians as an entity.

-          While the court case itself may extend over several years, there is the possibility of the ICJ issuing immediate provisional measures to Israel, urging a halt to current actions in Gaza.

-          The UN Security Council possesses the authority to enforce court orders, but Israel has a history of non-compliance with UN directives.

-          The potential use of a veto by the United States in the proceedings.

Yawn

 

18. Social media content is acceptable in most forums. However in factual areas such as but not limited to news, current affairs and health topics, social media cannot be used unless it is from a credible news media source or a government agency,

 

 

[Yellowtail]

14 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The immediate reply indicates that you have not bothered, as usual, to watch the interview. The interview should be evaluated based on the legal argument itself instead of who making these valid legal assessments. 

Nothing new here from known posters who deny any wrongdoing in Gaza by Israel and blindly continue to defend war crimes and genocide.

Continuously attacking people who disagree with you is a sign of weak argument and won't stop us from exposing the first ever live streamed genocide. 

Genocide indeed: 

Chart: Growth of Palestine | Statista

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Please. You offered no evidence. 

How many Gazans have starved or died of thirst after four months without food or water? 

 

What do you think Israel should be doing differently? 

[Morch]

35 minutes ago, Danny Australia said:

 

The immediate reply indicates that you have not bothered, as usual, to watch the interview. The interview should be evaluated based on the legal argument itself instead of who making these valid legal assessments. 

Nothing new here from known posters who deny any wrongdoing in Gaza by Israel and blindly continue to defend war crimes and genocide.

Continuously attacking people who disagree with you is a sign of weak argument and won't stop us from exposing the first ever live streamed genocide. 

 

It was posted 5 days ago. It's not the first interview with this lawyer. It's not his first time getting involved with such things. Nothing in the interview is new, groundbreaking or anything of the sort. It's just an echo-chamber effort.

 

Where did I deny 'any wrongdoing in Gaza by Israel'? As for 'war crimes', and 'genocide' - it's been pointed out, repeatedly, that tossing these terms about does not actually make them real.

 

I get attacked, constantly, by people who disagree with me. Including yourself. Must of thought you got a point there, eh?

 

Edited January 9 by Morch

[Nick Carter icp]

23 hours ago, Danny Australia said:

Application instituting proceedings and Request for the indication of provisional measures (icj-cij.org)

 

No doubt in my mind those who stick their heads in the sand and deny the ongoing genocide in Gaza have not read or willing to read the South African legal case.

 

I have actually read all 84 pages and listened to hours of interviews with the brightest legal minds on Utube confirming the strength and legal merits of the case.

 

 

 

https://www.icj-cij.org/index.php/node/203394

 

 

Wow, what a sorry excuse for a legal paper. This will go down in flames. "Rockets" is mentioned TWICE ,Zero mentions of hamas leaders by name ,Dozens of sources are from middle east eye twitter. Really? That a source? Other from Al jazeera.

UNRWA is mentioned as a source over 50 times. How easy would it be to discredit them?

"Iran" only shows up as a source lol "West bank" appears 47  times though it's not a part of the suit.

What a joke of a legal document. Like a tiktok compilation.

 

[Jeff the Chef]

41 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

How many Gazans have starved or died of thirst after four months without food or water? 

 

What do you think Israel should be doing differently? 

Easy one that, go and set the nuclear bombs off and end all trouble in the Middle East, but they won't do that will they, because that would screw all the oil up and the US wouldn't be happy.