Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[dick dasterdly]

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

I disagree.. countries like the Netherlands you can ask a income statement from the tax office. That one is pretty hard to fake, if they just notarize what is on it its many times safer and harder to cheat as what is done now.

 

You actually have to present evidence at the Dutch embassy and it does get checked. hard to forge those things (everything can be forged of course but not by everyone).

 

I said it before just make pensioners who want a statement file tax in their home country. Let the embassy translate and notarize these forms and your done. The tax office does all the checking (that is what they are for).

 

It can be done for sure IF countries want it.

 

Somehow I know you'll change your tune when/if the Netherlands follows the path of the UK, US and Australian embassies....????!

[dallen52]

5 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I am not sure if 800K requirement will be changed. But I think TI does not want people from Western countries live in poverty stricken areas of Thailand with a minuscule amount of pension (e.g. 600 to 800K USD). Regular 65K incoming/month coming to a Thai bank will be accept fro now, I guess. 

But it's ok to currently have a go and support the add on family they normally gain too?

 

I don't think the total financial implications have been considered?

I know for myself I ploughed over 500,000 baht into a family home that's never having my name on it.

Plus that bit of land for her old age.

Plus the day wages paid to various relatives who worked on the place.

Plus the unpaid loans to family members. 

And the sin sod, gold, etc.etc.

 

Economic chain reaction. 

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, damascase said:

‘My’ Dutch Embassy changed last year to a system where you have to provide - easily verifiable - evidence regarding your income. I have to submit the yearly statement of my pension funds concerning the amount paid in a calendar year, and the withheld income tax. Furthermore they require copies of monthly bank statements showing the amounts received.

As far as I know, there are no plans to change this as the current method is based on an agreement with Immigration.

My German letter is similar but I pay no tax as I no longer live in Germany and the German tax authorities have told me I no longer need to fill out a tax form every year. I show the original pension letter that I get every year and my bank statements from the internet banking. 

[joecoolfrog]

5 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I am not sure if 800K requirement will be changed. But I think TI does not want people from Western countries live in poverty stricken areas of Thailand with a minuscule amount of pension (e.g. 600 to 800K USD). Regular 65K incoming/month coming to a Thai bank will be accept fro now, I guess. 

You are no doubt correct but what is the motivation behind it ? 

After all its not as if these less well off Farangs are a drain on government resources or that they are depriving Thais of employment.

Even at only $600 -800 monthly these people are making a contribution to the local economy , certainly moreso than the many hundreds of thousands of migrant workers that appear to be tolerated.

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, fred110 said:

Then the thais can sieze all bank accounts?

Can't see why not.  Was it Cyprus where a bank folded, and the 'rules' were suddenly changed so that those with a relatively large amount of money in their accounts lost anything above the new limit?

[zydeco]

Just now, dick dasterdly said:

Can't see why not.  Was it Cyprus where a bank folded, and the 'rules' were suddenly changed so that those with a relatively large amount of money in their accounts lost anything above the new limit?

Well, China seems to be the model for most things in Thailand today.  So what did Mao do when he took over?

[orchidfan]

How can the Australian Embassy refuse to witness a signed Stat Dec from an Australian citizen no matter what the contents?

It is after all a legal declaration about some matter that they are simply witnessing that you...the signer are the person making it?

[sambum]

11 minutes ago, Derek B said:

 

They need us - we spend money that goes straight into families in local communities - without us alot of poor people are going to get a nasty surprise.

Your final sentence says it all, but do the people higher up the food chain i.e. the people who have made this decision care a jot about the "poor people"? I think not, and the people higher up the chain will have to explain why farangs don't come or stay here any more - a piece of cake for a department like the TAT (Tourist Authority of Thailand) who have ample experience in that field! 

 

[robblok]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Somehow I know you'll change your tune when/if the Netherlands follows the path of the UK, US and Australian embassies....????!

I am on an elite visa.. this does not affect me and for when i turn 50 i just put 800k in a Thai bank. Its not rocket science at all. 

 

Plus the Dutch government already asks for evidence from tax office. So they are one step ahead of others. Just like Glegolo said an for an other country. 

 

Its just the UK and their descendants that use that easy to fake system and now people have awoken and understood that the papers are meaningless without a check.

 

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by robblok

[zydeco]

1 minute ago, sambum said:

Your final sentence says it all, but do the people higher up the food chain i.e. the people who have made this decision care a jot about the "poor people"? I think not, and the people higher up the chain will have to explain why farangs don't come or stay here any more - a piece of cake for a department like the TAT (Tourist Authority of Thailand) who have ample experience in that field! 

 

A new Thai governmental office to replace Westerners with Chinese for all the Thai wives.

[dallen52]

6 hours ago, giddyup said:

And what about other cases, like mine, where I only get a part goverment pension because of other income, like interest on term deposits, allocated pensions, superannuation, rental income etc? Do you think embassies have the time, expertise or manpower to be checking all that out.

I too get hit with the deeming rate and the top rate Aussie pension has a downsizing because of this.

And because all the in country supplements drop off too.

It all goes on an annual government statement. 

But if that is unacceptable proof.?

 

It's going to be a injection to the Thai account.

 

And without any comparisons between have and have nots, a significant number of people who have tried to make a home here, are about to be affected. 

[alzack]

6 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I am not sure if 800K requirement will be changed. But I think TI does not want people from Western countries live in poverty stricken areas of Thailand with a minuscule amount of pension (e.g. 600 to 800K USD). Regular 65K incoming/month coming to a Thai bank will be accept fro now, I guess. 

its going to be 1 Million Baht next year they o not want us, they never did . just our money BUT one day the bottom is going to fall out of this country and back to buffaloes and sticky rice for them

[Joe Mcseismic]

2 hours ago, car720 said:

The only motive that I can see for this is that they want the falang out so that they can attract more Chinese, who supposedly have more money.

No problem because the Chinese will overrun the place soon enough.  The Vietnamese have not soon forgotten that North Vietnam used to belong to China and you know how the Chinese are about history.

Nope. How about the more obvious reason. They only want foreigners with money. They don't want poor foreigners. They already have enough poor people in the Kingdom, without adding to them. Seems more likely than your explanation, eh?

I suspect this has all come about from all the publicity surrounding foreigners without insurance and not being able to pay hospitals what they owe.

 

[sambum]

2 minutes ago, glegolo said:

This is quite funny how people trying to their last breathe defending whatever lame system their country have in place. You three countries is the only ones (probably), that have reacted because you three countries are the only one with a poor system...

 

The rest of us are good...... So accept it for what it is, and adapt to reality....

 

glegolo

Absolute garbage! I guarantee that there will be more Embassies to follow - just where are you from by the way, so I can compare your "good" system with "ours"!

[drake]

I think the OECD is upset because Thailand has not (yet) signed the 
CRS (Common Reporting Standard) agreement: 

Automatic exchange of bank information from emigrants.
Now the countries interested in the CRS are trying to exert pressure. 
(Google OECD CRS.)

[ukrules]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

This is quite funny how people trying to their last breathe defending whatever lame system their country have in place. You three countries is the only ones (probably), that have reacted because you three countries are the only one with a poor system...

 

The rest of us are good...... So accept it for what it is, and adapt to reality....

 

glegolo

Those words will come back to haunt you, just like those who accused the British Embassy of lying based on the Americans and Australians confirming that there was 100% not going to be any change whatsoever.

 

In time all will be revealed.

[CharlieH]

A Reported troll style comment has been removed.

[DavisH]

6 hours ago, giddyup said:

It's designed to force expats to actually prove they can meet the financial criteria instead of signing a possibly fraudulent stat dec.

The Aussie OAP is nowhere near 65K a month, so if that is their only source of income then it could be a problem or some. 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, rexall said:

...but has anyone actually done a proper investigation to determine how widespread liying might be? 

Today's allusion to the elephant in the room post of the day award goes to...

 

3 hours ago, rexall said:

2. Making the 800K a year-round sum would not work because your are supposed to be living on that money, not saving it.  No?

I agree. You lodge and season the wedge in the local bank and file the extension. Then you draw down on it over the ensuing 9 months but make sure it's fully topped up in time for the next round of seasoning. Well that's what my mate had been doing for the past 16 years or so.

 

My other mate, like many others, just leaves the wedge untouched, earning minimal interest (if any) and has no annual drama at all. He's been doing that for maybe 12 or so.

[sambum]

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Those words will come back to haunt you, just like those who accused the British Embassy of lying based on the Americans and Australians confirming that there was 100% not going to be any change whatsoever.

 

In time all will be revealed.

And then there will no doubt be a deafening silence from him/her and all the disbelievers!

[dallen52]

6 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I am not sure if 800K requirement will be changed. But I think TI does not want people from Western countries live in poverty stricken areas of Thailand with a minuscule amount of pension (e.g. 600 to 800K USD). Regular 65K incoming/month coming to a Thai bank will be accept fro now, I guess. 

But it's ok to currently have a go and support the add on family they normally gain too?

 

I don't think the total financial implications have been considered?

I know for myself I ploughed over 500,000 baht into a family home that's never having my name on it.

Plus that bit of land for her old age.

Plus the day wages paid to various relatives who worked on the place.

Plus the unpaid loans to family members. 

And the sin sod, gold, etc.etc.

 

Economic chain reaction. 

[malt25]

5 hours ago, cleverman said:

I don't care what you think, or anybody's thoughts. It's what the Oz embassy will put in writing is what I would like to see. 

Wow, bit touchy, aren't we ? You come onto an open public forum & ask someone to get some info for you, as you won't - can't get it yourself. Giddyup offered a positive & accurate response. "I don't care what you think, or anybody's thoughts." great attitude you have !

Might I respectfully suggest your attitude & your "cleverman" handle are a bit out of sync.

No wonder you had a blue at the IO.

Yes, Yes, I know. Smart arse response on the way.

[Russell17au]

In the Australian Embassy Notarial Service there is also an "Authentication" service which is separate to the Statutory Declaration service. I wonder what would happen if I took my Centrelink Income Statement and had it authenticated. It would be interesting to see what they did because the Centrelink Income Statement is a legal document from the Australian Government.

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, car720 said:

Since when did the Australian government, or public service for that matter, ever care about their citizens?

Wow... took a bit of time but glad you finally got that out of your system. The Brits income letter thread had the plaintive wail of 'they don't care' several times within the first few pages. Took a bit longer for an American to suggest it in their thread but they've got all sorts of real problems back home so probably distracted.

[sambum]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Today's allusion to the elephant in the room post of the day award goes to...

 

I agree. You lodge and season the wedge in the local bank and file the extension. Then you draw down on it over the ensuing 9 months but make sure it's fully topped up in time for the next round of seasoning. Well that's what my mate had been doing for the past 16 years or so.

 

My other mate, like many others, just leaves the wedge untouched, earning minimal interest (if any) and has no annual drama at all. He's been doing that for maybe 12 or so.

"My other mate, like many others, just leaves the wedge untouched,"

 

Can I have his address to send my begging letter?

[mfd101]

Lots of conspiracies around at the moment.

 

Does anyone actually understand what's involved in having a conspiracy? [ie BRAINS + COORDINATION]

 

Anyone think that's likely in the present instance? Personally, I'ld go for the stuffup.

 

[malt25]

4 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

In the Australian Embassy Notarial Service there is also an "Authentication" service which is separate to the Statutory Declaration service. I wonder what would happen if I took my Centrelink Income Statement and had it authenticated. It would be interesting to see what they did because the Centrelink Income Statement is a legal document from the Australian Government.

Good bit of info there Russ, thanks. Maybe you could ask Cleverman to get intouch with the Phuet IO & ask if this is acceptable.

[MaxYakov]

5 hours ago, evadgib said:

The way ahead is to lobby our Embassies to push for permanent residency (PR) that is grandfathered for eligible law abiding applicants that have already served a probationary period and to keep the requests short, factual and rant-free.

Are you a "lobbyist"? Just the thought of lobbying my embassy gives me goosebumps.

Edited November 2, 2018 by MaxYakov

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Somehow I know you'll change your tune when/if the Netherlands follows the path of the UK, US and Australian embassies....????!

 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I am on an elite visa.. this does not affect me and for when i turn 50 i just put 800k in a Thai bank. Its not rocket science at all. 

 

Plus the Dutch government already asks for evidence from tax office. So they are one step ahead of others. Just like Glegolo said an for an other country. 

 

Its just the UK and their descendants that use that easy to fake system and now people have awoken and understood that the papers are meaningless without a check.

 

 

Fair enough.  It certainly explains your lack of concern about those who can't afford an elite visa....

 

Forgive me for not understanding that you are 'important' because you are more wealthy. 

 

I'd only add that the very wealthy people I know here spend their money on 1) foreign goods 2) expat contractors that employ cheap locals, and so they consequently end up complaining about the poor product delivered!

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, cleverman said:

Finally some sense, everybody is just saying the same Ol same Ol but different embassy. I'm with you wgd., I'm outa here too. Imagine what it will be like as other embassies stop issuing letters. 

Buh-bye...

 

And to think that just a few days ago, you were blaming the retraction of the Brit Embassy income letter on the preponderance of British cheats abusing their system.