O/A visa and insurance experience today

[saengd]

1 hour ago, Max69xl said:

I'd like to know the outcome. I have a friend in same situation. 

You make donation saengd retirement fund, I send you email.???? 

[JimGant]

34 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The Non-Immigrant O Visa with annual extensions is not a loophole, it's just another type of Visa with other requirements when applying for it. 

Yeah, same for a Non Imm B -- but the one-year extension is not part of the original visa issue; it's an adjunct, not part of the original issue. For Immigration to grant a one-year extension, they need to attach it to a Non Imm visa -- it makes no never mind what the suffix may be, nor whether it was issued at a Thai Embassy abroad, or by Immigration itself in a conversion process -- it just has to be a Non Imm visa. That long-dead Non Imm visa with an O-A suffix, now being regurgitated to require insurance for extensions, is just pure ludicrous -- if the same doesn't apply to extensions emanating from Non Imm O and B visas. So, do they drop this requirement for long-dead O-A visas -- or rationalize by including O and B visas.....? Hmmmm.

 

Something's gotta break lose when enough uninsurable geezers, with original O-A visas, start getting denied extensions of stay. I just hope someone in a decision making capacity, and who isn't corrupt, is getting fed enough pertinent information to at least grandfather all retirees currently here on extensions of stay. Sadly, I'm afraid the Thai insurance industry is salivating over this new gold mine, will make all retirees "insurable" (for a nice, higher premium), and will make it all worthwhile to their chums in government. If that's the case, I too am outa here.

[Canuck50]

23 minutes ago, moontang said:

for a Canadian snowbird, spending half the year in Canada, wouldn't a yearly METV, be the easiest solution?

Possibly, but aren't they only good for 60 days? To get 7 months here I would need to make 3 visa runs with the associated costs I would think the O extension would be cheaper. Don't they also restrict the number of repeated entries on tourist visa?

[UKresonant]

53 minutes ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Not free! We pay for it via taxes!

UK NHS

Yes I think the notional amount allocated to health from my NI  to health was about £1400/yr up to 2018 (from memory, would have to dig the detail out). 

 

A current news topic is that they may increase the NHS supplement, for those without indefinite leave to remain/ insufficient time in country, from the current £400 (15400THB) to £625 (24000 THB), a bit less for students and the like. (no 400k ~ £10400 incident limit though). 

 

The U.K. state pension is in cash terms is often cited as being a bit low when compared, but if you are UK resident and have the security of the NHS, it's quite a good package, if they had not kept increasing the age at which you may receive it!. You don't pay NI payments on your pension. 

[moontang]

17 minutes ago, Canuck50 said:

Possibly, but aren't they only good for 60 days? To get 7 months here I would need to make 3 visa runs with the associated costs I would think the O extension would be cheaper. Don't they also restrict the number of repeated entries on tourist visa?

You could extend the first 60 by 30 days...then do a trip, and extend again..would be decent for CM or CR...No 90 day reports..no money in the bank, no yearly extension..

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

for a Canadian snowbird, spending half the year in Canada, wouldn't a yearly METV, be the easiest solution?

An METV is good for up to 9 months but certain criteria need to be met, you can't just bowl up hand over the cash and walk out. Numerous prints incl a tax return, employer letter or company reg cert, so not easy

Edited November 27, 2019 by scubascuba3

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, moontang said:

for a Canadian snowbird, spending half the year in Canada, wouldn't a yearly METV, be the easiest solution?

He already has an O-A and might have to change to an O. Why go for a METV? 

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, el jefe said:

There was a report a few weeks ago with a link to the Phuket newspaper where they quoted the head of Immigration there as saying the Phuket office would allow O-A holders to convert to O. It also said that 7 other provinces would do the same.
Are there any reports of anyone actually doing that conversion in country?

 

Many officers have told applicants to leave the country and start all over with a Non-Immigrant O. It's strange when Phuket Immigration goes the opposite way. 

[phetpeter]

If the insurance scam is run by AXA then its not worth the paper its printed on. We have the same arrangements in other countries, like here in KSA and they only have two hospitals in the whole city you are allow to go to, and it has to be Life or death situation every thing else written on the paper is total BS

Edited November 27, 2019 by phetpeter

[Maestro]

11 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

...Looks like a case of a local IO changing the original Police Order to make it easier for themselves to implement the requirement by aligning the 1 year permission to stay with the period of insurance coverage.

 

 

Yes, it looks very much like that, and it is something that has been happening quite often in the past, too, judging from members' posts.

[Maestro]

8 hours ago, moontang said:

UTH is the best Imm office I have dealt with...but, while I waqs there, I learned NongKhai can be as hard nosed as it gets.

 

What does UTH mean in the context of your post?

 

[MeePeeMai]

I'm Guessing Udon Thani

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

 

MYSTERY >>> Why do immigration officers even bother asking about insurance on entry/re-entry for OA Visas?  It's not needed for pre Oct 31 issued OA Visas and post Oct 31 issued OA Visas have such insurance by default.

But should be stamped to the end date of the insurance only ?? 

 

 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Max69xl said:

So, you prefer paying for an insurance in the UK instead of getting it via taxes? I don't believe that. 

Yes absolutely... In fact many of us have BUPA or other insurance as well.. 

 

I would far prefer a free market UK health system. 

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, el jefe said:

There was a report a few weeks ago with a link to the Phuket newspaper where they quoted the head of Immigration there as saying the Phuket office would allow O-A holders to convert to O. It also said that 7 other provinces would do the same.
Are there any reports of anyone actually doing that conversion in country?

 

The report was confused.. No one would go on record as saying they would convert the visa class incountry, that may not even be legal.. 

You can of course, on Phuket or anywhere, leave after expiry, obtain a new O and 'convert' that way.

[Maestro]

Removed an incomprehensible post and the replies to it.

[lamyai3]

7 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

I'm Guessing Udon Thani

Yes UTH is the airport code. I often refer to places this way too... BKK, SGN etc. 

[jacko45k]

18 hours ago, Exploring Thailand said:

There is a requirement that you keep 400k in your account, but they don't check it all?

Not heard of any yet. Perhaps hear more when we are beyond the one year anniversary of the introduction of that requirement. 

[hereforgood]

13 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Direct report from imm officers at swampy today.. I have no 'proof' to post but you can make of this what you like, its how my questions were answered. 

I was entering with a non imm O and processing at the clearance desks to chiang mai, as it was empty and there were spare officers, after I was stamped my 90 days I tried to discuss the issue with the IO stamping the passport. Between her poor english and my poor Thai she didnt / or wouldnt grasp or discuss that this wasnt about my visa, which she said was a multiple when it was a single and generally didnt give me any confidence that any response from her was going to be worth anything. 

As you walk through this section theres a senior officer behind the processing desks and before the next x ray section. She had superb english was able to communicate and understand 100% however the conversation went like (from memory)

Me  :: Sawadee Khrap.. Excuse me, I have a question about the new OA visa rules (she reaches for my passport). No Sorry this isnt for my visa, it is for my friend coming soon. 

Her :: OK 

Me  :: You know which visa I mean, the OA visa, where you get 1 year entry ?

Her :: Yes, sure

Me  :: People are very confused about how the insurance requirement is to be applied, and people online are giving different reports. I hear even different airports are different. 

Her :: (friendly) Smile.. Yes it depends. 

Me  :: So what does it depend on ?? Do they need insurance to get a 1 year stamp. 

Her :: (slightly pained smile).. That depends. 

Me :: But depends on what.. 'my friend' needs to know and is arriving soon. 

Her :: It depends.. On many things

Me :: What things ??

Her :: Well... (extended pause) the issue date of the visa.

Me :: OK, so any visa issued before October 31st does not need insurance ?? 

Her :: Yes with old visa issued.. We dont need to see any insurance. 

Me :: OK that great, thank you thats clear.. But what about visas issued now, new visas ?? 

Her :: (Pained forced smile).. It depends. 

Me :: But depends on what... People have to know. 

Her :: (Clearly uncomfortable).. It depends.. 

Me :: So it just depends on the officer ?? 

Her :: Yes.. Depends on the officer.. 

Me :: (trying to be friendly and joking, with a big cheerful grin) So if they have a big smile and are friendly they get 1 year ?? 

Her :: (looking relieved and again happy smile) Yes. 

 

At that stage, I couldnt see any further questioning was going to have any other outcome. "it depends" was her primary response and she actually said that a big smile and friendly demeanor is what can gt a 1 year stamp !! 

 

Feel free to pick any holes or believe that isnt the conversation, I have no way to prove any of that to doubters, but thats how my questions were answered. 

 

 

 

 

I have no doubt at all that this conversation went just as you describe. The reason you could not get a firm answer is because each agent can act as they wish. so there is no 100% correct answer. In other words you just never know some days chicken salad some days chicken #$@%

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, hereforgood said:

I have no doubt at all that this conversation went just as you describe. The reason you could not get a firm answer is because each agent can act as they wish. so there is no 100% correct answer. In other words you just never know some days chicken salad some days chicken #$@%

Each officer I agree.. But you would hope the senior / boss would have a clear idea of what rule she wants to apply. 

 

My impression is she would have gone either way depending on the officers initial choice and an instant gut check on the arriver. A horrible position. 

[Olmate]

12 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Each officer I agree.. But you would hope the senior / boss would have a clear idea of what rule she wants to apply. 

 

My impression is she would have gone either way depending on the officers initial choice and an instant gut check on the arriver. A horrible position. 

Seems everyone has forgotten to leave a “sweetener” in the p/p these days!

[Max69xl]

53 minutes ago, hereforgood said:

I have no doubt at all that this conversation went just as you describe. The reason you could not get a firm answer is because each agent can act as they wish. so there is no 100% correct answer. In other words you just never know some days chicken salad some days chicken #$@%

They can not act as they wish, some (maybe younger) officers simply don't know and won't ask a senior officer,maybe because of losing face. If you know you're right,you can always ask for a senior officer or just ask for the boss. 

[OJAS]

15 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

Direct report from imm officers at swampy today.. I have no 'proof' to post but you can make of this what you like, its how my questions were answered. 

I was entering with a non imm O and processing at the clearance desks to chiang mai, as it was empty and there were spare officers, after I was stamped my 90 days I tried to discuss the issue with the IO stamping the passport. Between her poor english and my poor Thai she didnt / or wouldnt grasp or discuss that this wasnt about my visa, which she said was a multiple when it was a single and generally didnt give me any confidence that any response from her was going to be worth anything. 

As you walk through this section theres a senior officer behind the processing desks and before the next x ray section. She had superb english was able to communicate and understand 100% however the conversation went like (from memory)

Me  :: Sawadee Khrap.. Excuse me, I have a question about the new OA visa rules (she reaches for my passport). No Sorry this isnt for my visa, it is for my friend coming soon. 

Her :: OK 

Me  :: You know which visa I mean, the OA visa, where you get 1 year entry ?

Her :: Yes, sure

Me  :: People are very confused about how the insurance requirement is to be applied, and people online are giving different reports. I hear even different airports are different. 

Her :: (friendly) Smile.. Yes it depends. 

Me  :: So what does it depend on ?? Do they need insurance to get a 1 year stamp. 

Her :: (slightly pained smile).. That depends. 

Me :: But depends on what.. 'my friend' needs to know and is arriving soon. 

Her :: It depends.. On many things

Me :: What things ??

Her :: Well... (extended pause) the issue date of the visa.

Me :: OK, so any visa issued before October 31st does not need insurance ?? 

Her :: Yes with old visa issued.. We dont need to see any insurance. 

Me :: OK that great, thank you thats clear.. But what about visas issued now, new visas ?? 

Her :: (Pained forced smile).. It depends. 

Me :: But depends on what... People have to know. 

Her :: (Clearly uncomfortable).. It depends.. 

Me :: So it just depends on the officer ?? 

Her :: Yes.. Depends on the officer.. 

Me :: (trying to be friendly and joking, with a big cheerful grin) So if they have a big smile and are friendly they get 1 year ?? 

Her :: (looking relieved and again happy smile) Yes. 

 

At that stage, I couldnt see any further questioning was going to have any other outcome. "it depends" was her primary response and she actually said that a big smile and friendly demeanor is what can gt a 1 year stamp !! 

 

Feel free to pick any holes or believe that isnt the conversation, I have no way to prove any of that to doubters, but thats how my questions were answered. 

A typical Thai Immigration "clear as mud" explanation, I think!

[Canuck50]

So, the verdict is in, for me at least. Went to CW this morning and got firmly rejected on my EofS based on original non-imm O-A from 2012. After waiting for 2 hours I made it through the document screening desk and then the initial IO went through everything and it looked promising but at the end she said "where is insurance"? I said I have coverage from Canada to US $5 million and she went to get her supervisor, likely because of the language. Supervisor showed me the link to the gov insurance page saying I must buy before they can issue extension. I said I will not buy that because I already have more cover than that one offers. I tried to convince her that my OA was old and I have already had many extensions since 2012 so could she approve it and she said "cannot"! She went back to the insurance link several times as though to convince me to buy it and I kept saying "NO".

 

Her recommendation was for me to leave Thailand, return on a 30 day Visa Exempt, go immediately to CW to convert to non-imm O, then return in 45 days to convert to one year extension. I asked if she could convert my OA to O for me there so I wouldn't have to leave the country and she said "cannot". I then asked if I could convert to an extension based on marriage without leaving the country and she said "yes, at desk C". I asked twice if that marriage extension would be based on OA or O and both times she just said "marriage extension", so either she didn't understand my question or the question made no sense, don't know which.

 

So I wasted 500 baht on return taxi fare and 6 hours of my life, but at least I know where I stand, unless they change their collective minds tomorrow!

[LivinLOS]

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

They can not act as they wish, some (maybe younger) officers simply don't know and won't ask a senior officer,maybe because of losing face. If you know you're right,you can always ask for a senior officer or just ask for the boss. 

That was the senior officer / Boss...

 

Exactly my point.. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

28 minutes ago, Canuck50 said:

it looked promising but at the end she said "where is insurance"?

 

Thanks much for confirming the bad insurance news re O-A based retirement extensions of stay at BKK CW...  We pretty much knew that was coming...but your post certainly confirms it for anyone who had any lingering doubts/hopes...

 

The one ray of good news in all that was the supervisor's willingness to have your retirement extension changed to a marriage extension, and APPARENTLY thus avoid the insurance requirement by doing so.

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Martyp]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks much for confirming the bad news re O-A based retirement extensions of stay at BKK CW...  We pretty much knew that was coming...but your post certainly confirms it for anyone who had any lingering doubts/hopes...

 

The one ray of good news in all that was the supervisor's willingness to have your retirement extension changed to a marriage extension, and APPARENTLY thus avoid the insurance requirement by doing so.

 

Except he really didn't get an answer to his question about switching to an extension based on marriage. He want's to do that to avoid the insurance requirement. It is still unknown if he can do that if he doesn't also switch from his current original O-A to a new O. He can spend another day at CW trying to do this. We should pay him for his efforts . . . ( just joking about paying).

 

BTW. It wasn't a waste of time. You not only answered your own questions but you've finally given a lot of people on TVF a very good answer to that question.

[Sheryl]

18 hours ago, JimGant said:

 

 

.....Something's gotta break lose when enough uninsurable geezers, with original O-A visas, start getting denied extensions of stay. I just hope someone in a decision making capacity, and who isn't corrupt, is getting fed enough pertinent information to at least grandfather all retirees currently here on extensions of stay. Sadly, I'm afraid the Thai insurance industry is salivating over this new gold mine, will make all retirees "insurable" (for a nice, higher premium), and will make it all worthwhile to their chums in government. If that's the case, I too am outa here.

 

 I am not sure it does (have to break loose). There is really no political constituency here that would care.  Having many of the foreign retirees leave would be absolutely fine with both the Health Ministry and Immigration, from the point of view of both the fewer of these people here the better.  The country leadership is distinctly xenophobic in attitude and surely won't mind fewer foreigners living here. The baht is strong right now and the current reserves good so no great need for the foreign currency they bring in (which was the main impetus for allowing a class of retirement visa). While there are individual people who will take a hit from retiree departures on a large scale it wouldn't register even a blip onto the overall economy.

 

From what I hear the local insurance companies are definitely not making everyone insurable. They are turning lots of people down altogether. Other than Pacific Cross none of them are really making much of an effort that I can see to tap into the market created by the new regulations.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, Martyp said:

 

Except he really didn't get an answer to his question about switching to an extension based on marriage. He want's to do that to avoid the insurance requirement. It is still unknown if he can do that if he doesn't also switch from his current original O-A to a new O. He can spend another day at CW trying to do this. We should pay him for his efforts . . . ( just joking about paying).

 

BTW. It wasn't a waste of time. You not only answered your own questions but you've finally given a lot of people on TVF a very good answer to that question.

 

All I can say on that point is....when Immigration revised their rules lately, they did add the O-A insurance language to the section re retirement extensions. They did NOT add it to the comparable section on marriage extensions of stay....

 

Edited November 28, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Canuck50]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Thanks much for confirming the bad news re O-A based retirement extensions of stay at BKK CW...  We pretty much knew that was coming...but your post certainly confirms it for anyone who had any lingering doubts/hopes...

 

The one ray of good news in all that was the supervisor's willingness to have your retirement extension changed to a marriage extension, and APPARENTLY thus avoid the insurance requirement by doing so.

 

Yes, I did ask her twice if insurance would be required if convert to marriage and both times she said NO. She didn't actually offer to convert herself but said I could do it at desk C, and motioned there as if I could do it immediately. Still confused about that though. I thought marriage extensions could be either based on a non-OA or a non-O. Am I wrong about that? I was trying to determine if one went that route, would they still end up with an OA that might be targeted next or would it be a conversion to an O-based on marriage, which might be targeted later ????.