Will Thai Health Insurance be mandated for O Visas and Extensions

[maprao]

Keep posting here and giving them daft ideas and yes it will!

[oldcpu]

1 hour ago, MeePeeMai said:

I will post an update when I do my next 90 day report (end of Feb/1st of March).

I am looking forward to reading your update.  

 

wrt Visa extensions, according to the Thai Immigration website, if I read that web site's English language page correctly, and assuming that web page is up to date (?), then if it is up to date, when applying for an EXTENSION based on Marriage from any non-immigrant Visa, the Thai government does not distinguish on that page between a Type-O and a Type-OA for a marriage extension.  The webpage I refer to is:   https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

 

EDIT - Hmmm ... reading some other webpages on that site - and it does appear there are pages on that site that are not up to date.  ????

Edited December 28, 2019 by oldcpu

[EricTh]

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yet they never requested prosecution of anyone for using these (a Felony for Americans), so I suppose no cases of indigent false-affidavit visitors were ever discovered?   If some were lying, they must have had enough money to stay afloat.  As to why only those numbers, they went after the big numbers, to maximize agent-returns.   It wasn't about, "Are they really telling the truth or not."  Whatever "It" is never about what they say it is.

 

The embassies don't really bother to prosecute anyone because it is too time consuming and not beneficial to them at all.

 

You can see a lot of people made false declarations in the past by looking at the forummers here who left Thailand this year due to financial constraints.

 

I also noticed an increase in the number of people getting education visa 'studying Thai' when they come in only once every two weeks and the school didn't complain about their attendance. Those schools are visa-mills. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by EricTh

[saengd]

12 hours ago, oldcpu said:

 

Confused at my post?

 

Just to be certain I am not reading this wrong ... Those on a Type-O (not a Type-OA, but on a Type-O) can apply for a 1 year extension based on RETIREMENT (assuming they meet all the retirement requirements with age/money) with no need to prove Health Insurance ... and those on a Type-O do NOT have to go for an extension based on MARRIAGE.

 

Did I get something wrong ? 

 

If I read the above thread correctly, user MeePeMai stated he was told he should leave the country, and come back in on a Type-O and apply for an extension on Marriage. To me that's not the only thing he could do.  He could come back on a type-O and then apply for an extension on either marriage OR retirement.  Further, I've read of cases where one on a Type-OA Visa (with entry to Thailand since expired) when going for the extension of the permission to stay, can when going for the extension/extension-renewal change the reason to be for "MARRIAGE" and not need to leave the country.  ....

 

Again, puzzled if comment aimed at my post.

.

"Further, I've read of cases where one on a Type-OA Visa (with entry to Thailand since expired) when going for the extension of the permission to stay, can when going for the extension/extension-renewal change the reason to be for "MARRIAGE" and not need to leave the country". 

 

Yes, I have just done that although my renewal date was still six months away, the local Immi. office gave me permission via an agent to do so. I'm told that option may not be available at all offices, mine is Chiang Mai and hints were dropped that the option may not be available forever. There was no discussion or questions about health insurance in any of that transfer.

Edited December 28, 2019 by saengd

[jacko45k]

13 hours ago, MeePeeMai said:

I wish I was as optimistic as you are.  I have been told that I must leave Thailand and get a new Non-O to then be able apply for an extension based upon marriage to a Thai. 

This seems to depend on which office you try to use. Some deem that any 12 month extension must be for the same or similar reason the original  Non-Imm Visa was issued for, which apparently there is no regulation to support. 

[tgeezer]

  The Resolution of the Cabinet is clear, refers to people who are requesting end of life extensions but then adds in English Non Immigrant O-A visas. They appear to believe that O-A. Visas allow people to extend for retirement therefor every applicant for retirement had O-A visas. 

[Caldera]

It simply doesn't make sense to require health insurance only from those who are on a Non-OA visa and extensions thereof.

 

Although common sense is in short supply in the officialdom, my prediction is that this was merely the first step and that they will extend the requirement to others. Now that they've put a framework in place for checking if someone has insurance, that will be fairly easy.

 

I hope they make some corrections, such as exempting those who are eligible for Thai social security or have adequate coverage by foreign insurers, but I wouldn't bank on it.

[jacko45k]

2 minutes ago, Caldera said:

adequate coverage by foreign insurers,

How about superior coverage with domestic insurers? The 40k out-patient requirement is not in my current policy and any OPD cover would have added 22,000 baht to my annual premium, and a paltry 2000 per OPD visit, limited to 30/year.

[MRToMRT]

5 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

How about superior coverage with domestic insurers

Thats a good point jacko, and it made me think (this whole "Thai/imm" insurance issue makes me stew to be honest).

 

I suppose (?) that the issue is that the insurance companies are being required to offer products that need approval from the gov/Thai insurance lobby. As such their "market" that they have to assess the potential liability on is just a) retirees who are already here b) retirees in general that may come here.

 

Apart from the fact that we are all "old", theres also the factors that many of the historical data for "us" includes booze, womanizing, broken families, single men, pleasure seekers, risk takers, etc, etc. I am now supposing the deals on offer are because the "average" retiree coming or staying in Thailand is statistically a bad risk for insurance companies.

 

I see the Gov to blame for only allowing "approved" insurance products. Its another Thai scam just like the rest of the scams we hear about.

 

 

 

 

[lamyai3]

19 minutes ago, Caldera said:

It simply doesn't make sense to require health insurance only from those who are on a Non-OA visa and extensions thereof.

Even less so after the authorities conceded that people entering on pre-October issued Non OA visas should in fact be treated according to the original terms of the visa and stamped in for a full year. The way people on long established Non OA visa extensions have been treated makes no logical sense, and smacks of opportunism at it's finest. 

[MRToMRT]

On 12/27/2019 at 1:09 PM, AussieBob18 said:

So here is the question - will Thai Health Insurance be mandated for 12 month O Visas and 12 month Extensions in the future - by the end of 2020.  Yes or No.

Who knows, this place "amazes" me more and more everyday. Logic would determine that it must come into effect at some point otherwise there would not be enough custom to make the insurance companies want a piece of the foreign retiree action.

[chainarong]

Always expect change I mean why not have the so called retirement visa increased next year to 1 million baht, nothing stays the same , so yeah, may as well cover everyone on any kind of visa and lets increase the fees by 3 hundred percent, just sayin.

[MJKT2014]

14 minutes ago, chainarong said:

why not have the so called retirement visa increased

That's always been the case. Years ago the requirement was less than 800K. If you keep your extensions current and don't restart the balance requirements have been grandfathered. 

[ICELANDMAN]

 

 

If I have to pay compulsory and evident insurance, I would prefer to pay in any country in Europe where I would have serious insurance that covers all possible costs for a price slightly higher than the fraudulent Thais insurance.
Consequence for the Thai all my bank deposits will start abroad as my consistent monthly income.
There are many beautiful and pleasant places to live in Europe there is only spoiled for choice, it will be a little colder but on the other hand it will not be an insurmountable hot and polluted environment like Thailand.
As a result, all voluntary obligations to a Thai family will be terminated. Marriage for men in every country is a mistake but it is a more serious mistake for farang men in Thailand where we do not count for Thai law.
My personal freedom has never been priced and I don't intend to change now because the Thai government has decided that it pushes the farangs to marry their abandoned women with dependent children like someone who made this comment on this forum.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by ICELANDMAN

[oldcpu]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

How about superior coverage with domestic insurers? The 40k out-patient requirement is not in my current policy and any OPD cover would have added 22,000 baht to my annual premium, and a paltry 2000 per OPD visit, limited to 30/year.

Making available superior coverage with domestic insurers is IMHO a step forward, but even if superior, I believe that being forced to use Thailand domestic will still affect some of us on a non-immigrant visa (ie we are not immigrants hence we are internationals) where we have superior International insurance, where even any new superior domestic Thai insurance is likely not to be of interest, and the Thai insurance not able to compete. 

 

In my case, I have significantly superior International Insurance coverage that is part of my pension package, it is heavily subsidized, and its monthly payments do not increase as I get older (I turn 66 in a couple of weeks).  It covers both myself and my much younger wife for as long as either of us shall live.  I do not believe any domestic insurance, even if made superior to the current offering, can compete with the International Health Insurance package that I currently have. 

 

I am becoming more and more convinced the approach should be for certain hospitals in Thailand to be accepted to complete a Thai government form verifying the foreign non-immigrant visa holder has adequate Health Insurance to meet the Thai government standard.  For completing the form (and checking with the Insurance company) the selected Thai hospitals could charge the foreign non-immigrant visa holder a fee for the hospital administration work needed to contact the International Insurance companies (to verify the insurance) and the work needed for filling in/certifying the Thai government form.

 

Already some of the major private Thailand hospitals will contact a foreign international insurance company to verify insurance, before they will conduct some operations on a foreign insurance holder.  

.

[traveller101]

Yes - but whether it happens tomorrow or 1 or more years down the track is anybody's guess. 

It also remains to be seen which course of action will be taken in order to achieve the desired result.

Ubonjoe's straightforward, no- nonsense and logical solution is a simple police order declaring Health Insurance mandatory for all 1 year Extensions based on Retirement irrespective whether it was based on a non Immigrant O or OA-Visa.

Others suspect that the Non Imm O-visa for the purpose of Retirement will be phased out over a period of time thus leaving no other option than to apply for an OA-Visa (Retirement) - or acquire an Elite Visa.

Again, all predictions at this point in time are educated guesses at best.

Other very important issues need to be addressed as well, one glaring example the fact that none of the eligible Insurance companies offer any coverage for over 75year olds and there is no provision in the current mess to accommodate those folks.

[madmen]

4 hours ago, Caldera said:

t simply doesn't make sense to require health insurance only from those who are on a Non-OA visa and extensions thereof.

They screwed up and they know it! Their has been a big backlash with this blatant cash grab along with the TM30  . They would reverse it if not for stupid face. both will quietly die

[Peter Denis]

15 hours ago, oldcpu said:

...

wrt Visa extensions, according to the Thai Immigration website, if I read that web site's English language page correctly, and assuming that web page is up to date (?), then if it is up to date, when applying for an EXTENSION based on Marriage from any non-immigrant Visa, the Thai government does not distinguish on that page between a Type-O and a Type-OA for a marriage extension.  The webpage I refer to is:   https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

...

Yes, that's correct.  The requirements and conditions for a 1 year extension of stay - be it for reason of retirement or for reason of marriage - are exactly the same whether based on an original OA Visa or on a 90-day Non Imm O Visa. 

[jimn]

No 

[ThailandRyan]

13 minutes ago, jimn said:

No 

"No" to what Jimn?  No, the requirements are not the same? or No you can not have your cake and eat it too!  The financial requirements are the same, money in the bank, monthly transfers, Bank statement, Bank letter, etc...., The only big difference on a marriage extension is the enourmous amount of paperwork they require to prove the marriage is bonafide.  Its why I would never do the marriage route if I had a choice.  Oh yes, you are right the O-A now requires insurance after 31 October. 

[jimn]

2 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

"No" to what Jimn?  No, the requirements are not the same? or No you can not have your cake and eat it too!  The financial requirements are the same, money in the bank, monthly transfers, Bank statement, Bank letter, etc...., The only big difference on a marriage extension is the enourmous amount of paperwork they require to prove the marriage is bonafide.  Its why I would never do the marriage route if I had a choice.  Oh yes, you are right the O-A now requires insurance after 31 October. 

Just answering the OP question

So here is the question - will Thai Health Insurance be mandated for 12 month O Visas and 12 month Extensions in the future - by the end of 2020.  Yes or No.

 

i say it now and say it again. No

 

[ThailandRyan]

1 minute ago, jimn said:

Just answering the OP question

So here is the question - will Thai Health Insurance be mandated for 12 month O Visas and 12 month Extensions in the future - by the end of 2020.  Yes or No.

 

i say it now and say it again. No

 

I can only hope that they come to their senses, but then there are no assurances except in

life and death.

[saengd]

6 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

"No" to what Jimn?  No, the requirements are not the same? or No you can not have your cake and eat it too!  The financial requirements are the same, money in the bank, monthly transfers, Bank statement, Bank letter, etc...., The only big difference on a marriage extension is the enourmous amount of paperwork they require to prove the marriage is bonafide.  Its why I would never do the marriage route if I had a choice.  Oh yes, you are right the O-A now requires insurance after 31 October. 

I've just switched to an extension based on marriage, the additional paperwork is not at all significant.

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, jimn said:

Just answering the OP question

So here is the question - will Thai Health Insurance be mandated for 12 month O Visas and 12 month Extensions in the future - by the end of 2020.  Yes or No.

 

i say it now and say it again. No

 

I got shot down early doors when I stated what 12 month non o  visas was op on about. Basically because there isn't one based on retirement. The OP later (think #12) explained his intention was ALL non O. Meaning based on whatever. Marriage. Parent Thai child etc.

I'm not the only one that thinks this new insurance was designed for NEW non O-A.

It seems for some stuffed up reason it's being applied to extensions of stay based on retirement. Subsequently the suggested solution is to kill O-A and obtain non o. 

Absolute joke. 

Even more of a joke is suggestion it will be extended to all non o. 

Some say only non o based on retirement and won't include ME or based on child 

Is that a joke. Create one loop hole after another. 

I'm off to Soi 4 tomorrow to get hitched.

[ivor bigun]

Have been here on retirement for 13 yrs ,in a week or so am changing to Marriage , been married 20 years ,so its genuine .

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Have been here on retirement for 13 yrs ,in a week or so am changing to Marriage , been married 20 years ,so its genuine .

So I've been living with someone 7 years. 

I'm excluded and you can stay? Fair?

BTW what does genuine mean. 

 

[KhunFred]

Hoping that Thai Immigration implodes. I have already made my decision to relocate to the Philippines, where I can buy health insurance from the government and get straightforward rules for visas and renewals. Thailand continues to shoot itself in the foot with these insane add-ons to existing immigration rules. Most of the retirees approaching 70 cannot possibly get insurance that is worth paying for. The exclusions make it a Lose/Lose situation. You are simply giving an insurance company money to comply with regulations and they offer you NOTHING for the money you spend. Ready, FIRE, aim.

[Aforek]

29 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

... The exclusions make it a Lose/Lose situation. You are simply giving an insurance company money to comply with regulations and they offer you NOTHING for the money you spend. Ready, FIRE, aim.

Right ! I have been refused by Pacific cross for exclusions ( in fact, I pay 200 bahts a month for pills , I cost nothing to Thailand , refund by my western insurance ), and I am very  happy not to be with these thieves

I prefer to leave Thailand than feed the thai insurance which will give me nothing; only our money interests them 

[Maestro]

Removed s post that was aggressive, off topic and largely incomprehensible.

[UKresonant]

10 hours ago, Aforek said:

Right ! I have been refused by Pacific cross for exclusions ( in fact, I pay 200 bahts a month for pills , I cost nothing to Thailand , refund by my western insurance ), and I am very  happy not to be with these thieves

I prefer to leave Thailand than feed the thai insurance which will give me nothing; only our money interests them 

I doubt if I'll ever be able to transition to any kind of extension, if they apply this to all 12 month extensions, it's possible that I could be in Thailand more than 180 days, but then again maybe not, so any Thai policy may not be possible or effective in an case, as it appears to be all Thai insurance that has that condition in T&Cs. 

That's before getting into the detail.

 I glanced at one of the Banks protection accounts, where they doubled up the amount in your account for medical, appeared interesting, but of course impossible as I'm not Thai, and will never be...

Edited December 29, 2019 by UKresonant