Tahitian Queen closed down.

[Catkiwi]

52 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

Everything closed.

 

Everything for sale or rent.

 

No tourists coming back until 2022, maybe.

 

Facts? Don't flatter yourself with unsubstantiated estimates / speculation. You are just stringing along a thread with no proof of facts.

[Leaver]

6 minutes ago, Catkiwi said:

Facts? Don't flatter yourself with unsubstantiated estimates / speculation. You are just stringing along a thread with no proof of facts.

 

Obviously you are not in Pattaya.  

 

What do you think is happening here?  

 

When do you think tourists will come back to Pattaya, in any significant numbers?  

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

Everything closed.

 

Everything for sale or rent.

 

No tourists coming back until 2022, maybe.

 

Well not quite everything but depending on the type of business and location, it does appear that it would be fair to say that closings are at a level that are about as severe as imaginable. We've seen downturns here before, but this is ridiculous.

 

Tourists coming back in significant numbers? Yeah, 2022 sounds about right. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by Jingthing

[GrandPapillon]

On 1/10/2021 at 12:22 PM, Susco said:

 

A Gogo bar that has made big profits from tourists for the past 50 years, get discounted rents for the biggest part of the 10 months the pandemic has caused issues, asking for donations?

 

Pathetic.

amen to that,

 

you would think they had a bit of savings and equity after all those years,

 

unless...

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, Leaver said:

When do you think tourists will come back to Pattaya, in any significant numbers?  

As soon as the red zone restrictions are lifted. They will pour down Hwy 7 in large numbers every weekend. 

[thainet]

3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

As soon as the red zone restrictions are lifted. They will pour down Hwy 7 in large numbers every weekend. 

Yes this will definitely help Pattaya business overall, but sadly this type of local tourist will not help the TQ and places of that ilk.

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

What if that property is mortgaged?

 

What has the "owner" currently got?  A debt they can't pay?

 

What has the Thai bank current got?  A property they can't sell, and a loss on a loan.  

 

Thousands of these all over Thailand now.  Commercial, and residential.

 

Happy to hear how you think this is "rubbish."  

 

What if you try and stop telling us that the Patpong family is broke and therefore is desperate for Bob and Woody's paltry monthly rent?

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, jacko45k said:

As soon as the red zone restrictions are lifted. They will pour down Hwy 7 in large numbers every weekend. 

 

The "Bangkok tide" only really applied on the long national holiday weekends. The regular weekend Jomtien beach lurkers were locals from Chachoengsao to Rayong but mostly from around Bo Win, Pluak Daeng and the other dormitory towns straddling Highway 331 that house thousands of eastern seaboard factory workers.

 

A lot of those factories have downsized or closed.

[crobe]

As a patron of TQ, and the recipient of a few beers on the house from Woody due to the amount I spend in there on lady drinks, I think it would be a great shame for it to disappear.

But we have to be realistic - COVID changed everything

There will be a time when tourists return but it will not be the same

There are many on this forum, exemplified by Leaver, who only want Pattaya to return to catering for the mongering trips and are curmudgeonly about any change or new tourists coming in - they are crying in their beer and will be disappointed.

Same old whining comments all the time and a refusal to face reality

Pattaya - post-covid - will change, the tourist mix will change, there will be less western expats and the mix of tourists will be more heavily towards the Asian region, looking for more content and variety in their trips.

 

So to TQ itself -it has problems

It is too cramped when there are a crowd of customers in (pre-covid), the dancing girls are sometimes a little older and the clientele is pretty monolithic - older falang ex-pats and tourists who already know about the place through word of mouth.

But it also has advantages and unique selling points - the history and the "roadhouse" feel that sets it apart from the chrome and mirrors of the walking street establishments.

It is also, in Pattaya terms at least, one of the more respectable establishments in terms of how the dancers look and perform - I won't elaborate too much on that.

And Pattaya administration should not try to hide this history under the fluff of becoming a "family-friendly" resort.

Given the above TQ should be the "biggest and the best" of Pattaya establishments - which is difficult in it's present location.

 

At the moment TQ gets overlooked as the tour parties head to walking street to goggle but not spend money - and TQ should not be for this, or cater for families, but it should be a rite of passage for anyone coming to Pattaya, whether for a weekend down from Bangkok or a golf-tour, to say that you have not really been to Pattaya unless you have had a beer in TQ.

 

If the site that TQ currently occupies does get redeveloped then a new TQ, embracing the history, could be the centrepiece of whatever new hotel or complex takes the site.

A new, and larger, TQ should double-down on the history of Pattaya growing up from its R&R roots, not so much mirrors on the wall to try to make the place look bigger, but photos of old Pattaya from the 70s and 80, soldiers on the beach etc. 

Keep the music from that era aswell.

I personally would like to see a few showtimes, like the body-painting that used to happen at Suzi Wongs, or occasionally some live music if there is a well-known player in town - but you do have Angelwitch and Hard Rock hotel for these, so it depends on whether they survive post-covid.

 

If TQ reopens when the restrictions are relaxed I will be one of the first to be there spending my money, but if it does not then I hope it is revitalised in some form.

[Catkiwi]

10 hours ago, Leaver said:

 

Obviously you are not in Pattaya.  

 

What do you think is happening here?  

 

When do you think tourists will come back to Pattaya, in any significant numbers?  

It doesn't matter what I think, as if I said anything I would only be speculating. You are spouting speculation as fact, including your statement that I am "obviously" not in Pattaya. 

[crobe]

On 1/22/2021 at 6:02 PM, Leaver said:

 

The land has no value with no tenants, and if no one wants to buy the land, because there are no tenants.  In that case, it's a liability to the owner.  

Absolutely not true, especially in Thailand

More than any other country in the world the assessment of status and worth in Thailand is largely due to how much land a person owns, and although this cannot be taken with you it can be handed down.

There are very few financial penalties currently in Thailand for keeping land empty - the much mooted revised land tax is still in abeyance, which is why you see prime plots of land between beach road and second road still empty

You obviously know very little about Thailand culture, I think you need to increase your bandwidth

[HashBrownHarry]

1 hour ago, crobe said:

Absolutely not true, especially in Thailand

More than any other country in the world the assessment of status and worth in Thailand is largely due to how much land a person owns, and although this cannot be taken with you it can be handed down.

There are very few financial penalties currently in Thailand for keeping land empty - the much mooted revised land tax is still in abeyance, which is why you see prime plots of land between beach road and second road still empty

You obviously know very little about Thailand culture, I think you need to increase your bandwidth

You can't explain anything to him, unless it involves 2 for 1 happy hour on soi bukhouw somewhere, as you mention, he knows very little.

[thainet]

1 hour ago, crobe said:

Absolutely not true, especially in Thailand

More than any other country in the world the assessment of status and worth in Thailand is largely due to how much land a person owns, and although this cannot be taken with you it can be handed down.

There are very few financial penalties currently in Thailand for keeping land empty - the much mooted revised land tax is still in abeyance, which is why you see prime plots of land between beach road and second road still empty

You obviously know very little about Thailand culture, I think you need to increase your bandwidth

@crobe He won't listen (see his many same themed posts)..I have just filtered out  his name on this thread.

[BigStar]

12 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

amen to that,

 

you would think they had a bit of savings and equity after all those years,

 

unless...

unless...you'd somehow noticed all the other businesses closed, also perhaps permanently, due to the unexpectedly disastrous COVID crisis. WOT???

 

And unless...even if blind you had the balance sheets from over the years including all those low seasons in a tough, competitive business--and so could make an informed judgement displaying keyboard business acumen markedly superior to that of the owners actually running a Pattaya go-go bar successfully for over 40 years.

 

All TVF Economists know that the Perpetual Pattaya Death Spiral dictates that every high and low season is worse than that of the year preceding. Extensive bar stool polling and napkin calculations reveal that year-on-year profits in farang-owned bars are often down no less than 50%! 

 

Now TQ may have made more some years than the 5 - 10% adjudged proper and reasonable by our ace Economists reared in nanny states. TQ was, however, a relatively expensive operation that also contributed much to local charity. You might read the gofundme page to learn more:

 

https://www.gofundme.com/f/save-a-local-business-Thailand

 

Otherwise, innocent of observation (where are our Eyeballs when we need 'em?) and embarrassingly naked of any numbers whatsoever, you're merely left with hot air.

 

As reference, you may consider a case where a Gofundme saved a much older, far wealthier, and far more famous bar in the States suffering for exactly the same reason:

 

Community Rallies To Save Beloved Atlanta Tavern

 

Bars have been particularly hard hit. So I hope TQ's page will achieve its modest goal of 15k and reopen and invite all the old staff back to resume their jobs. Good move, and thanks @TaaSaparot for calling the campaign to our attention. Oh--yes, I contributed.????
 

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, thainet said:

Yes this will definitely help Pattaya business overall, but sadly this type of local tourist will not help the TQ and places of that ilk.

Local Thai tourists, no, but expats and Western tourists have traditionally come in during weekends and holidays as well. Not nearly so many, agreed, but still helpful I think. Over the years I've unavoidably met quite a number in TQ itself.

[ExpatOilWorker]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

 

What if you try and stop telling us that the Patpong family is broke and therefore is desperate for Bob and Woody's paltry monthly rent?

 

Anyone have a qualified guess as to what the months rental was for the TQ?

[crobe]

While I have no problems with GoFundMe pages for individuals who have hit hard time, and the staff from the TQ would be a case in point as many were working freelance and now have no income, I do not see these as something that businesses should be doing.

It sends the wrong signal about the business.

If the business is viable then attract investors - for much more than 15k, if the business is so uncertain that it cannot attract investors, and that may well be the case with TQ given the current situation and the discussions over the rental, then why would individuals contribute with no expectation of return for something investors will not touch?

 

[BigStar]

5 hours ago, crobe said:

Pattaya - post-covid - will change, the tourist mix will change, there will be less western expats and the mix of tourists will be more heavily towards the Asian region, looking for more content and variety in their trips.

This has been the trend for quite some time. Yet TQ was still doing OK and even surviving, after some retrenchment, after the lockdown. If they can reopen they may survive until more tourists return next year. I'm just speculating and hoping, however. 

 

5 hours ago, crobe said:

It is too cramped when there are a crowd of customers in (pre-covid), the dancing girls are sometimes a little older and the clientele is pretty monolithic - older falang ex-pats and tourists who already know about the place through word of mouth.

 

But it also has advantages and unique selling points - the history and the "roadhouse" feel that sets it apart from the chrome and mirrors of the walking street establishments.

The size has worked well thru the many years and may be regarded as part of the accidental genius of the place. You may be familiar with Churchill's 

 

A chamber formed on the lines of the House of Commons should not be big enough to contain all its members at once without overcrowding, and there should be no question of every member having a separate seat reserved for him. If the House is big enough for all its members, nine-tenths of its debates will be conducted in the depressing atmosphere of an almost empty or half-empty Chamber.…[T]here should be on great occasions a sense of crowd and urgency.

 

I agree about capitalizing more on the history and I've often thought that TQ could use more promotion. In some ways they've preferred to remain low profile and known best to insiders, maintaining a certain mystique (amusing though that idea is in some ways).

 

The "dive bar" concept is pretty unique selling point now that Pattaya has lost most of the great dives it once had. It's amazing how quickly Nevada lost its customer base after it merely remodeled the stage. That was a crime, though less than that of the destruction of King Kong bar on Soi Yodsak. I don't see a gentrified hipster TQ as competing all that well in the current market. But maybe that's cause I like it as is. ???? 

 

5 hours ago, crobe said:

I personally would like to see a few showtimes, like the body-painting that used to happen at Suzi Wongs

 

TQ has had those over the years including body painting. I recall a portrait of Woody or Tom being painted on the back of one of the ladies. Birthday party. ???? The "titty tequila" and lottery was a daily occurrence. Still some, notably at Christmas (snow party) and New Year's when the number of punters can justify the expense and bother. Same with the food menu. "Hungry? TQ food is good food." We're sorta into chicken-and-egg territory now. 

 

 

[crobe]

2 minutes ago, BigStar said:

This has been the trend for quite some time. Yet TQ was still doing OK and even surviving, after some retrenchment, after the lockdown. If they can reopen they may survive until more tourists return next year. I'm just speculating and hoping, however. 

 

The size has worked well thru the many years and may be regarded as part of the accidental genius of the place. You may be familiar with Churchill's 

 

A chamber formed on the lines of the House of Commons should not be big enough to contain all its members at once without overcrowding, and there should be no question of every member having a separate seat reserved for him. If the House is big enough for all its members, nine-tenths of its debates will be conducted in the depressing atmosphere of an almost empty or half-empty Chamber.…[T]here should be on great occasions a sense of crowd and urgency.

 

I agree about capitalizing more on the history and I've often thought that TQ could use more promotion. In some ways they've preferred to remain low profile and known best to insiders, maintaining a certain mystique (amusing though that idea is in some ways).

 

The "dive bar" concept is pretty unique selling point now that Pattaya has lost most of the great dives it once had. It's amazing how quickly Nevada lost its customer base after it merely remodeled the stage. That was a crime, though less than that of the destruction of King Kong bar on Soi Yodsak. I don't see a gentrified hipster TQ as competing all that well in the current market. But maybe that's cause I like it as is. ???? 

 

 

TQ has had those over the years including body painting. I recall a portrait of Woody or Tom being painted on the back of one of the ladies. Birthday party. ???? The "titty tequila" and lottery was a daily occurrence. Still some, notably at Christmas (snow party) and New Year's when the number of punters can justify the expense and bother. Same with the food menu. "Hungry? TQ food is good food." We're sorta into chicken-and-egg territory now. 

 

 

Nevada used to be a gem, a favourite of mine and I am sure I was their favourite customer

They went downhill, not because of the remodelled stage, but because of the change in management - you can talk to some of the girls who moved from Nevada to TQ if it opens up again.

I hear rumours the old owner may look to come back into the market once the present situation is resolved.

 

[BigStar]

Just now, crobe said:

Nevada used to be a gem, a favourite of mine and I am sure I was their favourite customer

They went downhill, not because of the remodelled stage, but because of the change in management - you can talk to some of the girls who moved from Nevada to TQ if it opens up again.

I hear rumours the old owner may look to come back into the market once the present situation is resolved.

 

The remodeled stage, seats, and eventually music was symptomatic of the change in management. Actually the girls looked better than any ever had in Nevada or Las Vegas before it. Good luck to reopening. 

[AndyFoxy]

My first experience with the TQ was in Angeles City in the late 90s. Even bought the T-shirt. Later went to the Pattaya TQ. Nothing beats that time in the TQ in Angeles though. 

[GrandPapillon]

not sure why one poster is being so defensive with TQ, while being not officially associated with them

 

if they didn't have equity after all those years, for hard times, and not adjust for seasonality, then it was poor management, period. Charity donation is irrelevant as an argument.

 

But again, opening a bar in a cut throat environment like Pattaya is hardly a demonstration of good management skills

 

you need to quit when you are still ahead,

Edited January 24, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[BigStar]

50 minutes ago, crobe said:

While I have no problems with GoFundMe pages for individuals who have hit hard time, and the staff from the TQ would be a case in point as many were working freelance and now have no income, I do not see these as something that businesses should be doing.

It sends the wrong signal about the business.

Sometimes the better course is to send what some may regard as the wrong signal and have a business rather than have no business at all. 

 

52 minutes ago, crobe said:

If the business is viable then attract investors - for much more than 15k, if the business is so uncertain that it cannot attract investors, and that may well be the case with TQ given the current situation and the discussions over the rental, then why would individuals contribute with no expectation of return for something investors will not touch?

Too simplistic and outside investors may mess things up as they often do. And finding trustworthy reliable investors in Pattaya--or Thailand? Tall order.

 

Why? For love of the place. For example, see this bar that sent the wrong signal:

 

Community Rallies To Save Beloved Atlanta Tavern

 

 

 

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, GrandPapillon said:

But again, opening a bar in a cut throat environment like Pattaya is hardly a demonstration of good management skills

 

And yet they lasted more than 40 years and only brought down by a global pandemic

[GrandPapillon]

Those bars are usually run with one purpose only, to maintain the lifestyle of their owners while they stay in Pattaya. It's basically a bank account. There is no long term plan, hence no accumulation of equity to save the business in hard times.

 

Charity donation only comes into play as a way to take away the guilt of running such a "dodgy" business for their owners and to give them an extra excuse to "maintain" the business.

[scubascuba3]

If there was a quality daytime agogo such as Dollhouse, Electric Blue, even Windmill then I'd go to it, daytime would suit me better but unfortunately the daytime ones have been rubbish for a long time 

[GrandPapillon]

16 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

And yet they lasted more than 40 years and only brought down by a global pandemic

when the market is growing, and you can squeeze a profit, then it's easy to sit there and ride the wave

 

if it wasn't a cash making business, why so many gogo bars open in South Pattaya? it has been growing for years, the money must be there. And their owners are obsessed by it, even with their poor management skills ????

Edited January 24, 2021 by GrandPapillon

[sungod]

18 minutes ago, AndyFoxy said:

My first experience with the TQ was in Angeles City in the late 90s. Even bought the T-shirt. Later went to the Pattaya TQ. Nothing beats that time in the TQ in Angeles though. 

Nothing to do with the one in Thailand,  blatant copy.

[GrandPapillon]

1 hour ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Anyone have a qualified guess as to what the months rental was for the TQ?

in the late 90s, I heard it was 250,000 THB per month, back then it was a lot of money

[crobe]

1 hour ago, BigStar said:

Sometimes the better course is to send what some may regard as the wrong signal and have a business rather than have no business at all. 

 

Too simplistic and outside investors may mess things up as they often do. And finding trustworthy reliable investors in Pattaya--or Thailand? Tall order.

 

Why? For love of the place. For example, see this bar that sent the wrong signal:

 

Community Rallies To Save Beloved Atlanta Tavern

 

 

 

And I wont comment on more than 100 other Atlanta restaurants and bars that have closed permanently.

 

The fact is according to their own press release the amount raised ($180,000) is enough to keep them open through the spring and hopefully to when trading picks up as the vaccination program rolls in and people are allowed out more.

Their statement

 

So if it is such a viable business, why could they not raise such an amount from an investor

 - possibly they did not want to give up equity or control

 - they did not want to open up the books as an investor would insist on.

 

These questions above are why a GoFundMe is appropriate for individuals or other charity cases, but not for commercial businesses