French musicians with no work permit/illegal party busted at Koh Samui "Hippie Festival"

[J Town]

6 minutes ago, arend said:

Is it illegal to have a jam... musicians who just come together to play?  

Is it illegal to play at an open mic night?

Does it depend on the venue?

Does it depend on whether payment is made?

So, we had a Blues festival here in Pai recently... were the farang musicians all playing illegally?

If you play at an event say a wedding of a friend, are you playing illegally?

If you are a guest performer, are you playing illegally?

Whjere is the line or do authorities just make it up as they go along?

I used to play at a bar in Jomtien. It was a jam session and money was collected as a benefit for The Chameleon Society (children with HIV/Aids). The bar owner had to purchase a blanket work permit for all musicians even though we were volunteering. Not even a free beer. It's a disgusting racket.

[Oldie]

3 minutes ago, J Town said:

I used to play at a bar in Jomtien. It was a jam session and money was collected as a benefit for The Chameleon Society (children with HIV/Aids). The bar owner had to purchase a blanket work permit for all musicians even though we were volunteering. Not even a free beer. It's a disgusting racket.

 

It is like this. If you get paid or not is not important. It is the same in many other countries. So nothing Thailand specific. 

[Rhys]

... the work of a competitor...

 

[J Town]

Just now, Oldie said:

 

It is like this. If you get paid or not is not important. It is the same in many other countries. So nothing Thailand specific. 

I've  played music over half the world and NEVER was I under threat of arrest for jamming in public. What countries are you referring to that will arrest you for playing for free in public?

[RhodeIslandRed]

7 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

No masks, no social distancing,,,,,,,,,these idiots give us all a bad name.

What?...no brown envelopes? Someone's out of sync.

[Oldie]

3 minutes ago, J Town said:

I've  played music over half the world and NEVER was I under threat of arrest for jamming in public. What countries are you referring to that will arrest you for playing for free in public?

It depends where you play. It makes a big difference if you play in a bar or if you play on the street. In a bar you can't play without a work permit. On the street it depends. I know the laws for Germany. In many cities you will need a licence to be allowed to play on the street. Often the locations and the times are limited. 

[ronaldo0]

30 minutes ago, DirtyFarang said:

In Thailand, NO "work" can be done without a work permit, including painting your wife's house (You can't own a house).  work is defined as anything that requires movement or thinking.  Technically, that would include taking a dump, but nobody's been busted for that yet.  

 

No foreigner can get a work permit to play music or to paint a house.  Both occupations are reserved by law exclusively for Thais.  The theory is, that even if somebody is working free, they are taking work from a Thai.   So, listen up, folks, no jam sessions, period.  If you do, it had better be behind closed and locked doors with the curtains drawn.   And don't paint your house either.

You can own the house , but you can’t own the land . Well you can but it’s a lot of hassle and money .

I know several guys who have work permits that play live music in various venues and have done for over 10 years . They all own their own company.

[RabCNesbitt]

It's all about the money.... someone, somewhere didn't get paid.

I wonder how many people riding motorcycles without a helmet, 3-up on a motorcycle, riding the wrong way down a carriageway or exceeding the speed limit the BIB passed on their way to bust the jam party?

Many deaths on the roads by blatant ignorance and failure to properly police and enforce laws.... but the guys having a jam are a very, very soft target.....

[Peterw42]

38 minutes ago, DirtyFarang said:

In Thailand, NO "work" can be done without a work permit, including painting your wife's house (You can't own a house).  work is defined as anything that requires movement or thinking.  Technically, that would include taking a dump, but nobody's been busted for that yet.  

 

No foreigner can get a work permit to play music or to paint a house.  Both occupations are reserved by law exclusively for Thais.  The theory is, that even if somebody is working free, they are taking work from a Thai.   So, listen up, folks, no jam sessions, period.  If you do, it had better be behind closed and locked doors with the curtains drawn.   And don't paint your house either.

Musician isnt on the Thai only job list, I know a guy in Bangkok works as a musician with a work permit.

[robsamui]

57 minutes ago, arend said:

Is it illegal to have a jam... musicians who just come together to play?  

Is it illegal to play at an open mic night?

Does it depend on the venue?

Does it depend on whether payment is made?

So, we had a Blues festival here in Pai recently... were the farang musicians all playing illegally?

If you play at an event say a wedding of a friend, are you playing illegally?

If you are a guest performer, are you playing illegally?

Whjere is the line or do authorities just make it up as they go along?

The definition of 'work' is absolutely anything they want it to be . . . quite literally. It doesn't matter whether it's paid work  or 'voluntary'. And, like most things in Thailand connected with foreigners (immigration, visas, permits etc) the local officials have extremely wide-ranging powers.

During my time living in Thailand I have known personally one internationally-renwned Norwegian painter who was fined: he used to go to Samui for extended periods to accumulate work for his upcoming exhibitions. This was deemed 'working'. He was so infuriated that he left Thailand for good.

I got to know another creative person - a very quiet and withdrawn woman fiction-writer/novelist who based herself on Kho Pha-ngan. She hid away in a jungle hut and hardly ever went out or socialised - just sat and wrote (longhand, in notebooks) all the time. That, too, was 'working' and she was fined and blacklisted.

 

The examples are many.

 

The mistake that most newcomers to Thailand make is to assume there is a lawful logic or consistency to the acts and decisions of officials in authority - there isn't. Worse, very many people assume they have the same 'rights' as they've known in their own country (or other nations). They don't.

I've come across some really friendy and helpful Thai immigration officials and police, over the years. But it's far more realistic (and safer) to assume that most offificials in this sphere of work really don't like foreigners, and view us as a species to be (at best) restrained and limited and, at worst, punished and got rid of.

 

Edited February 20, 2021 by robsamui

[Peterw42]

37 minutes ago, J Town said:

I used to play at a bar in Jomtien. It was a jam session and money was collected as a benefit for The Chameleon Society (children with HIV/Aids). The bar owner had to purchase a blanket work permit for all musicians even though we were volunteering. Not even a free beer. It's a disgusting racket.

There is no such thing as a blanket work permit as a WP goes with a visa that allows work. I think the guy may have been having you on.

[Dagfinnur Traustason]

7 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

“Comedy is simply a funny way of being serious”
― Peter Ustinov

 

If you post was funny I would have laughed.

If you take a look at the reactions of my post, maybe you quickly find out where the problem is.

[Surasak]

7 hours ago, Dagfinnur Traustason said:

2 bottles and some bills. That´s a really good days work for the police.

Oh, by the way, they nabbed 4 musicians too. I have always told them to keep low key. Do NOT sing!

 

Anyway, I am happy to hear that they did not have some one playing with an organ on the scene. The most vulgar instrument a musician can play with.

I hope my organ never gets out of tune!

[J Town]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

There is no such thing as a blanket work permit as a WP goes with a visa that allows work. I think the guy may have been having you on.

I was there when the bar owner negotiated with the Pattaya official for this permit. Maybe that was just code for a "brown envelope." All I know is he paid the Thai politician and the police left us alone.

[Peterw42]

53 minutes ago, arend said:

Is it illegal to have a jam... musicians who just come together to play?  

Is it illegal to play at an open mic night?

Does it depend on the venue?

Does it depend on whether payment is made?

So, we had a Blues festival here in Pai recently... were the farang musicians all playing illegally?

If you play at an event say a wedding of a friend, are you playing illegally?

If you are a guest performer, are you playing illegally?

Whjere is the line or do authorities just make it up as they go along?

Technically its all illegal but so long as you are not abusing it, nobody will care less.

Get up from the crowd and play along for a song, karaoke, talent competition etc, no body will mind.

Its when guys are playing all night with the band, there own gear etc etc, and trying to do it by saying they are just jamming, just playing at muso night etc.

The laws are enforced when the laws are abused

 

[thailand49]

What is the problem, there were no Thais who could play or sing French to get the job done so they took it on themselves no permit needed this wasn't work it was entertainment the Thais attending had no problem. I wonder if this defense will work?????

[mrfill]

So Karaoke is illegal without a work permit?

 

Hooray!!!!!!!

[connda]

When I say don't come to Thailand, my foreigner friends, I mean it.  Talk about a country so wound tight that a few guys can't get together and jam without risking jailtime.  If Thailand was a human, they would need some serious psychotherapy to deal with their paranoia and aversion about sneaky foreigners who are all out to do bad things to Thailand - you know?  Like playing a jam session and drinking some beer.  It's this type of nonsense that I find ridiculous beyond words.

Honestly people.  If you're considering coming here?  Maybe think of other countries where holding a jam session doesn't end up with you being thrown into jail and deported.  Like Mexico. 

.

[herwin1234]

Thailand has controled and managed the covid crisis very well BECAUSE everybody behaved responisible.

Please any foreigner wanting to be stupid and being a pain in the ass, a few words of advice. GO BACK. AND. DONT. COME BACK.

Enjoy yr own country ravaged by covid and wonder why ? 

 

Good job by the Thai police to arrest these idiots.

[Mung]

sacre bleu ????

[Captain Monday]

22 minutes ago, connda said:

When I say don't come to Thailand, my foreigner friends, I mean it.  Talk about a country so wound tight that a few guys can't get together and jam without risking jailtime.  If Thailand was a human, they would need some serious psychotherapy to deal with their paranoia and aversion about sneaky foreigners who are all out to do bad things to Thailand - you know?  Like playing a jam session and drinking some beer.  It's this type of nonsense that I find ridiculous beyond words.

Honestly people.  If you're considering coming here?  Maybe think of other countries where holding a jam session doesn't end up with you being thrown into jail and deported.  Like Mexico. 

.

They are probably not jamming. Even if they agree to play for an audience for free, they are taking work away from from a potential Thai musician.

The "clown" woman making yoga vids on line. Likely when the YouTuber is not filming some sweaty people are paying here 250 baht for a lesson. Much was made about jammers arrested at a bar in Chiang Mai some years ago. Later I found out a little more exactly what goes on. No I don't think people should be frog-marched to a cell for what amounts to beer money.  Digital nomadism is illegal in Thailand. Using your laptop all day is not.  Use a little discretion and not draw attention to yourself by purposely arranging a public spectacle and le tribe nomades digitales will have few problems.

[A Los for words]

2 hours ago, lahgon29 said:

Worse than an accordion? I don't think so????

I agree....in order of wrongness:

1. Accordion

2.Pan Pipes

3. Electric organ with drum machine

[metisdead]

A post using French language has been removed as this is an English language forum. 

 

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[Old Croc]

I don't know exactly what the case here was, but if a professional band is playing in an entertainment venue and getting paid for it, it's a job!

In many countries, including Thailand, you need a specific visa or permit for such work and risk censure if you don't have the correct documentation..

The grey area comes when someone is just jamming or gets up from the crowd to sing. It would be a very officious IO who would punish someone for this.

I recall a thread many years ago where people were arrested in, I think CM, for jamming. It caused quite a debate on this forum at the time.

 

[Captain Monday]

36 minutes ago, A Los for words said:

I agree....in order of wrongness:

1. Accordion

2.Pan Pipes

3. Electric organ with drum machine

1.Accordion, like Polka Music

2. Screeching female vocals of any Bollywood movie

3. GABBER. I dare you.

 

[Bangkok Barry]

Were the musicians being paid for playing? If not, then they were not working without a permit. They were having a good time and making people happy. A big no-no in Thailand. Different story about the illegal gathering though. Rules is rules.

[Harveyboy]

9 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not French ..... why does it give me a bad name?

That is the french for you ..Oh la la ..

[2530Ubon]

9 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Them French should be banned from singing anyway

Thai Immigration remarked that it was the quickest surrender they'd ever seen. 

[joecoolfrog]

5 hours ago, Matreusse said:

 

You should ask yourself about the long term viability of living here.

Everyone should ask themselves about the viability of living here legally...and behaving legally.

Oh please , it is hardly the crime of the century !

The raid took place because there were ' complaints ' , ie a connected bar had no customers so grassed up a non connected bar that actually did have some customers.

So corruption at work again , is that not meant to be illegal ? 

[elliss]

10 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm not French ..... why does it give me a bad name?

 

   Fyi .

  In the Good ole days ,  a Frenchie was known as a condom .

  Seems , they advanced in the Rubber industry .555