New Nordic: Pattaya developer begins voluntary rehabilitation procedure with Bankruptcy Court

[Rimmer]

Off topic post removed

[xylophone]

On 3/16/2021 at 6:52 AM, jacko45k said:

You make a point for a different view too with those numbers..... 

1. Twelve years later and still not covered the cost of the condo. An older person arriving in Thailand may want to consider that fact.

2. Got a condo, what to do with it before one dies or needs to move on, unless it can be readily sold, hopefully with  profit , a white elephant.

3. No recurring expenses that impact the comparison? How about annual maintenance and services charges, now we have property tax, albeit small. Not to mention the flexibility lost to being tied to a property.

4. How about guys who bought on a loan from Nordic to take advantage of that 10% return, where are they now?

(Now don't go thinking I am anti.... I am stuck with a house!)

Some good points in your post, and I think age does play a major part in the decision one makes on whether to buy here or not.

 

Of course the other main point which others make is that our tenure here is that the grace of the government/immigration, and can be ended at any time, and the yearly retirement extension palaver hammers that home.

 

I bought a house here not long after I arrived, move the girlfriend and daughter in and carried out some improvements, which kept me busy and happy.

 

At that time I had no problem because I could leave the house to my girlfriend and daughter, however we split up, and there I was in a house which was too big for me, so I sold it after much effort and marketing and got a good price for it in 2011, but the marketing and selling of it made me realise that properties do not move easily here, and there were plenty of them for sale.

 

Since that time I have rented and am so happy that I have, and I don't worry about the rental expense, because that's just a fact of life for me, and I can also up sticks and move whenever and wherever I want to, without any worry whatsoever, and that for me is a BIG bonus.

 

Age IMO, comes into my reckoning because as I've gotten older I really don't need to worry about maintenance, renovation or the like, because I can just move into another apartment, and if I want to I can also move back to my home country without any hassle.

 

I used to think that buying would be useful for those much younger, however having watched the property situation here for over 14 years, I've changed my mind and would never buy here, no matter what.

[Leaver]

20 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

houses in nakon nowhere maybe, condos in Pattaya? buying a condo and getting the chanote at the land office is safe, but give examples if don't agree

 

I remember a case a few years ago where a Lands Office official was arrested for issuing fake chanotes to developers and HiSo's. 

 

He died in prison not long after his arrest.  Of course, it was suicide.  Do you remember the case I am referring to?   

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, Leaver said:

 

I remember a case a few years ago where a Lands Office official was arrested for issuing fake chanotes to developers and HiSo's. 

 

He died in prison not long after his arrest.  Of course, it was suicide.  Do you remember the case I am referring to?   

never heard of it, if you find a link somewhere, post it

[david555]

On 3/15/2021 at 11:28 PM, tomazbodner said:

If you buy your own place to live in it, what's that got to do with the swindled investors mentioned above?

you could end with a empty or worthless dirty pool to swim in , same for all the other  general public appliances i guess...., as elevators and other non maintained  appliances ...., so almost unlivable ?

 

In case of your  condo building society going bankrupt 

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

never heard of it, if you find a link somewhere, post it

 

It was in Phuket. 

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/former-phuket-land-officials-jailed-for-illegal-land-titles-64253.php

 

Of course, officials in other Land Offices around Thailand would never contemplate doing such a thing.   

 

[scubascuba3]

9 minutes ago, Leaver said:

 

It was in Phuket. 

 

https://www.thephuketnews.com/former-phuket-land-officials-jailed-for-illegal-land-titles-64253.php

 

Of course, officials in other Land Offices around Thailand would never contemplate doing such a thing.   

 

That doesn't surprise me in Phuket. I vaguely remember some dodgy dealings in Chiang Mai, building on public land or something. Either way no Pattaya dodgy condo chanotes except the buying off plan dodgy condo developers where people can't get the chanote as the bank holds them

[tomazbodner]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

you could end with a empty or worthless dirty pool to swim in , same for all the other  general public appliances i guess...., as elevators and other non maintained  appliances ...., so almost unlivable ?

 

In case of your  condo building society going bankrupt 

Always appreciate optimists on this forum

[david555]

Just now, tomazbodner said:

Always appreciate optimists on this forum

Just only in such a case of a bankruptcy from the condo building society where  you own a condo , so cheer up it happens not to all.... ????

[Leaver]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

That doesn't surprise me in Phuket. I vaguely remember some dodgy dealings in Chiang Mai, building on public land or something. Either way no Pattaya dodgy condo chanotes except the buying off plan dodgy condo developers where people can't get the chanote as the bank holds them

 

Simply pointing out that Thailand can't even guarantee their land titles. 

 

There are many cases of corrupt Land Office officials issuing fake documents. 

 

I remembered this case because the guy was probably murdered in gaol, and didn't suicide.  

[pattayadude]

On 3/15/2021 at 10:51 PM, Jonathan Fairfield said:

A key player in Pattaya’s real estate market has announced it has initiated a voluntary rehabilitation procedure under Thailand’s Bankruptcy Act.

this sounds like the unavoidable bitter end the Waterfront Condominium project eventually had to face!

[Rimmer]

A libelous post has been removed

[pattayadude]

On 3/26/2021 at 12:13 PM, xylophone said:

Some good points in your post, and I think age does play a major part in the decision one makes on whether to buy here or not.

 

Of course the other main point which others make is that our tenure here is that the grace of the government/immigration, and can be ended at any time, and the yearly retirement extension palaver hammers that home.

 

I bought a house here not long after I arrived, move the girlfriend and daughter in and carried out some improvements, which kept me busy and happy.

 

At that time I had no problem because I could leave the house to my girlfriend and daughter, however we split up, and there I was in a house which was too big for me, so I sold it after much effort and marketing and got a good price for it in 2011, but the marketing and selling of it made me realise that properties do not move easily here, and there were plenty of them for sale.

 

Since that time I have rented and am so happy that I have, and I don't worry about the rental expense, because that's just a fact of life for me, and I can also up sticks and move whenever and wherever I want to, without any worry whatsoever, and that for me is a BIG bonus.

 

Age IMO, comes into my reckoning because as I've gotten older I really don't need to worry about maintenance, renovation or the like, because I can just move into another apartment, and if I want to I can also move back to my home country without any hassle.

 

I used to think that buying would be useful for those much younger, however having watched the property situation here for over 14 years, I've changed my mind and would never buy here, no matter what.

there was profit to be made if you bought and sold condos up until the 2014 military coup. things just turned from bad to worse the following years and came to a complete halt with Covid. The future is uncertain and any attempt to buy real estate is "playing with fire", especially those over 60 years old..

God bless airbnb!

keep on renting unless you are buying it at a price which is considered an absolute "steal" and make sure it has nice views, as the near future for any city in the world will be extremely  BORING

[newnative]

1 hour ago, pattayadude said:

there was profit to be made if you bought and sold condos up until the 2014 military coup. things just turned from bad to worse the following years and came to a complete halt with Covid. The future is uncertain and any attempt to buy real estate is "playing with fire", especially those over 60 years old..

God bless airbnb!

keep on renting unless you are buying it at a price which is considered an absolute "steal" and make sure it has nice views, as the near future for any city in the world will be extremely  BORING

       I had no trouble selling condos from 2010 when I arrived in Thailand through 2019.  My last condo sale was July 2020.  The coup had absolutely no effect--and it certainly did not deter Chinese or Russian buyers.   8 of my condo sales were to buyers from those 2 countries, with all the Chinese sales after 2014.  

[MariaE]

Why do Chinese and Russians buy more Condos? Is condo business the right business to start now? How did the COVID-19 pandemic influence your sales? I'm sorry for these questions, but I would value a response from a person that does this a lot.

The last business I had failed, and I had to file for bankruptcy. I wouldn't want that to happen again. My finances are fine now, and I am looking to invest in something new.

I am looking forward to your answer, and I wish you all the best.

Maria.

[JAS21]

On 3/16/2021 at 6:41 AM, Jeffr2 said:

I decided not to rent.  12 years later, what I would have paid for in rent has almost paid for the property.  Not a bad way to go.

But yes, here in Thailand, renting is a great way to go.  But not for all of us.

We bought in 2005 when gbp/thb was much better...72 then.

 

I don’t think we are at break even point yet especially as we spent quite a lot on furnishings. 
 

Even though we are in a gated community and the outlook is to a green area I don’t think we would get back the thb we paid.

 

Also we are’stuck here’... looking back I would have preferred to be at the seaside or able to ‘pack our bags and move around.

 

However having our own house is quite nice.

[nausea]

My rich uncle in the UK built a house, and bought all the land around it, so no-one could impair his view. That's ideal, but being poor I tend to go for rented accommodation. Buying is a bit of a lottery in my experience. You can hit lucky, and I've never lost money on real estate; but just that option to move quickly, if you get bad neighbours or whatever, clinches it for me. Just today, I was looking out on my domain here, and thinking "how much would this cost in the UK", but my security is zilch. Whatever, life is a big circle, if I end up back in a bedsit so be it. As they say - been there, done that, got the t-shirt, I can only live in one room at a time.

[Jeffr2]

2 hours ago, JAS21 said:

We bought in 2005 when gbp/thb was much better...72 then.

 

I don’t think we are at break even point yet especially as we spent quite a lot on furnishings. 
 

Even though we are in a gated community and the outlook is to a green area I don’t think we would get back the thb we paid.

 

Also we are’stuck here’... looking back I would have preferred to be at the seaside or able to ‘pack our bags and move around.

 

However having our own house is quite nice.

Yeah.  We're in the same situation.  Love the house, but hate being tied down!  A dilemma for sure!!

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Yeah.  We're in the same situation.  Love the house, but hate being tied down!  A dilemma for sure!!

Yep, you me and many I expect.

[Leaver]

On 4/21/2021 at 11:46 AM, JAS21 said:

Also we are’stuck here’...

 

Some changes to the visa laws and you may become unstuck.  

[abcd1]

https://nng-restructuring.com/creditor-update-no-2/

 

So what does this mean, that creditors should take possession of their apartments and file documents with the court confirming debt within 30 days of appointment of the planner on may 31st?

[Heng]

If it's one of their completed projects (and there are several in that photo), it's a non issue.   If it's a work in progress, then yes, you should have a tingling feeling down below.

[Barefoot]

French people ruined after the bankruptcy of a real estate developer

[aldriglikvid]

Tried to Google the 'New Nordic'-debacle but I have some outstanding questions: 

 

- The built and raised Condo's throughout Pattaya, containing the name New Nordic, are these in any way encumbered, or/and liable the plaintiff's/group that are in a bankruptcy proceeding? (loans, leasing, etc.) or are they "traditional condo's" per today? 

 

- In Thailand, are condo's able to mortgage the common title similar to - let's say - Scandinavia? 

 

[scubascuba3]

2 hours ago, aldriglikvid said:

Tried to Google the 'New Nordic'-debacle but I have some outstanding questions: 

 

- The built and raised Condo's throughout Pattaya, containing the name New Nordic, are these in any way encumbered, or/and liable the plaintiff's/group that are in a bankruptcy proceeding? (loans, leasing, etc.) or are they "traditional condo's" per today? 

 

- In Thailand, are condo's able to mortgage the common title similar to - let's say - Scandinavia? 

 

It depends on which condos, i see many new nordic condos on Pratumnak side streets look empty, no cars in car park, orange paint fading fast

[mikebell]

Despite all the negativity above EVERY agent round town is still talking up the state of the market.  There are still huge developments going on; in my area I can see three sites busily erecting hundreds of new houses. 

I ask myself where will all the new owners come from?  Who has sufficient money to buy up land and can afford the huge building costs. 

I think the answer is some people dare not put this money in a bank.

[PoorSucker]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:35 AM, pixelaoffy said:

Hilarious! All these suckers who paid millions for condos..we warned you ! 

 

 

I rent.

[BenStark]

6 hours ago, mikebell said:

I ask myself where will all the new owners come from?  Who has sufficient money to buy up land and can afford the huge building costs. 

I think the answer is some people dare not put this money in a bank.

I think the answer is, they don't use their own money.

 

They got a project approved by the bank years ago, and they now have the choice to build or have the approval cancelled.

 

I'm sure the banks built in some securities, so if not x amount of houses are sold by a certain point, the money flow will stop.

 

The developer? Well he goes bankrupt, and starts a new company with new shareholders and CEO, and takes over the failed project for peanuts.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

I know several of those housing estates that are almost or fully completed, and have very little occupancy, even years after completion.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, mikebell said:

Despite all the negativity above EVERY agent round town is still talking up the state of the market.  There are still huge developments going on; in my area I can see three sites busily erecting hundreds of new houses. 

I ask myself where will all the new owners come from?  Who has sufficient money to buy up land and can afford the huge building costs. 

I think the answer is some people dare not put this money in a bank.

     Another answer might be that some people, including me, like a diversified investment portfolio, which might include cash, real estate, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc.  You are right that there is lots of development going on all over Pattaya, including the Darkside.  Projects continue to be built because buyers, so far, can be found for the product.

     My partner and I own a house by Lake Mabprachan and this area is booming.   Just down the street from us, a small enclave of 5 homes is being built--starting price is 35 million baht, or around 1 million dollars.   Contrary to what some AN posters would like you to believe, there are a number of people with money in Pattaya.  We often hear, anybody with money would not be living in Pattaya, or Thailand, for that matter.  Also not necessarily true. 

   Fortunately, there are lots of new projects being built at more reasonable price points.  We are buying a new home at one of the new projects being built in this area.  Prices range from around 6MB to 10MB, in the first 2 phases.   We bought in the initial phase of 5 houses.  You asked who is buying.  In our first phase, there are:  A Russian buyer.  An Irish buyer with Thai partner.  2 American buyers with Thai partners, and a Chinese buyer.  So, buyers from Europe, America, and Asia in the first phase.  With the first phase about done and the houses sold, the developer has started the second phase of around 20 homes.