Thai teacher's SHOCK in Oz! Explains his experiences down under are not a bit like Thai schools!

[SomchaiCNX]

3 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

I didn't know all these. I applied for an English teacher post before in Thailand but they didn't hire me because I didn't have any teaching experience.

 

So no students are allowed to fail in Thai schools?

 

At the University (international) of my kids they did fail many (extra income) as a result many students moved to another University as it was easier to pass. The oldest one started with 60 and they ended up with around 15 who graduated or some need an extra year to make it. The youngest one had only 5 who made it within the 4 years.

[DrJack54]

3 hours ago, CharlieH said:

With envelopes being handed over to even get the child into the school to start with, how likely is that child going to fail having paid ? Be realistic, it aint gonna happen.

Are you referring to Thai corruption without reference to USA purchased university entry obtained from hiso usa folk. Apparently your only focused on Thailand

[CharlieH]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Are you referring to Thai corruption without reference to USA purchased university entry obtained from hiso usa folk. Apparently your only focused on Thailand

Again, detail it, this IS a Thai forum so unsurprising its Thai focussed as is the OP.

[BritManToo]

Sort of surprising as Oz has (arguably) the worst education system in the western world.

 

[Bkk Brian]

5 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Are you referring to Thai corruption without reference to USA purchased university entry obtained from hiso usa folk. Apparently your only focused on Thailand

I thought they put a stop to that in the US when it was exposed all over the media and went viral worldwide, they all went to court right.

 

 Never seen that happen in Thailand have you? I wonder why, could it be because its endemic and part of the corrupt system within schools?

[BenDeCosta]

18 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

  Never seen that happen in Thailand have you? I wonder why, could it be because its endemic and part of the corrupt system within schools?

 

Corruption is endemic across all strata of society in Thailand. Anyone who thinks that the education system is whiter than white and free of corruption is either a fool or someone that's never been to Thailand. But corruption is also endemic in most countries around the world, it's certainly not just Thailand. Look at the UK now, it's all coming out in the wash about the shady deals that David Cameron has being doing, and during the pandemic, Matt Hancock has been awarding multi-million pound contracts to his mates, paid for with public money, of course. The people running the country simply cannot keep their grubby little hands out of the cookie jar. I don't think corruption can ever be resolved, greed in some people is just far too powerful an instinct.

Edited April 21, 2021 by BenDeCosta

[inThailand]

As I heard many times before, you can't fix stupid. I guess that applies to countries as well? 

Edited April 21, 2021 by inThailand

[bangkok19]

The Thai teacher should consider himself lucky that he was visiting a country school in Northern New South Wales!

 

If he had visited a school (here) in Sydney or Melbourne's inner city or suburbs he would have experienced a completely different scenario.

 

Over the past decade more and more teachers are slipping their left wing views into their students curriculum.

Activism is encouraged by the teachers to the point where (in some cases) they are given the day off school to participate in protest rallies for all sorts of causes. Teachers even encourage them to make offensive (to many onlookers) Posters and Placards. Many of these protesting students don't even know the facts about what they protesting...  only the left wing propaganda that their young ill-informed "toe the line" teachers tell them.

Climate change, racism and gender identity propaganda are rammed down the students throats!

In actual fact, most of these students marching really just want the day off school however, sadly, some of the activism rubbish stuff the teachers preach to them will 'stick' and they will carry it with them into later life. 

 

Activism is rife in our Universities...  if you happen to have an opposing view you are shouted down. 

If they don't win the argument then you've probably hurt their feelings.  

 

The students that come out of Universities here with 'honors' are the lucky ones.

It all starts from their primary and secondary school education when their brains are a little softer.

 

As for the current crop...  God help them! 

 

    

[Edwin Cameron]

I'm sitting here in Murwillumbah this morning reading this,having a bit of a giggle, the school is also a private school run by the R.C. Church, which means that it's a lot more authoritarian than the State schools. I'm sure the exchange teacher wouldn't have understood a word of that Aussie slang that you refer to and the Aussie teacher wouldn't have spoken in slang to him other than to be joking with him. Murwillumbah is a kind of sheltered town on the N.S.W. north coast,near Byron Bay and we don't read about much crime happening in the local schools, however go 50 klms up the coast (Gold Coast) it's a different story,drugs,gangs and teachers been stood over by 6 foot teenagers, I think things would be different if he was posted to say 'Helensvale' were it's easier to by a bag of weed than a Coca Cola.

[scorecard]

27 minutes ago, bangkok19 said:

The Thai teacher should consider himself lucky that he was visiting a country school in Northern New South Wales!

 

If he had visited a school (here) in Sydney or Melbourne's inner city or suburbs he would have experienced a completely different scenario.

 

Over the past decade more and more teachers are slipping their left wing views into their students curriculum.

Activism is encouraged by the teachers to the point where (in some cases) they are given the day off school to participate in protest rallies for all sorts of causes. Teachers even encourage them to make offensive (to many onlookers) Posters and Placards. Many of these protesting students don't even know the facts about what they protesting...  only the left wing propaganda that their young ill-informed "toe the line" teachers tell them.

Climate change, racism and gender identity propaganda are rammed down the students throats!

In actual fact, most of these students marching really just want the day off school however, sadly, some of the activism rubbish stuff the teachers preach to them will 'stick' and they will carry it with them into later life. 

 

Activism is rife in our Universities...  if you happen to have an opposing view you are shouted down. 

If they don't win the argument then you've probably hurt their feelings.  

 

The students that come out of Universities here with 'honors' are the lucky ones.

It all starts from their primary and secondary school education when their brains are a little softer.

 

As for the current crop...  God help them! 

 

    

 

And if, as you say and if it's true that the teachers are teaching the kids left wing stuff then please share if there's any right wing influences at work? 

 

Sorry but the content of your post is too left wing oriented, no balance.

 

And by the way is it not true that there are causes that come under 'left wing' that do need urgent attention in Australia?

 

[starky]

Strike a light me old china plate was putting  me ones and twos on me plates of meat and was  thinking, Streuth! if these drongos only had a bit of a go, or a bit more dash they could have shoved in heaps more no longer used colloquialisms Fair dinkum! Ya would have to be a wombat to think most Aussies still talk like that cobber, these cockies wouldn't have a scooby Doo. Fair suck of the sav. Now I'm gonna nip off  down the rub a dub and get on the cans see yas.

Edited April 21, 2021 by starky

[Somtamnication]

It will never happen in schools here, particularly government school.

[MadMuhammad]

16 hours ago, PatOngo said:

Your attempts at the Australian accent are abysmal! 

give it a wash mate, fair dunkum. That was ridgey didge, aye

[PatOngo]

25 minutes ago, MadMuhammad said:

give it a wash mate, fair dunkum. That was ridgey didge, aye

Your attempts are just as abysmal!

[DUNROAMIN]

18 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

I was a teacher trainer back in the day and saw many bright young teachers like this; full of wonder and awe.

 

However...

 

This young man will return from Oz full of new ideas and methods, but will then run into the old guard at the school; the ones that have been there forever and that are resistant to change. Further, he will get undermined by those same elderly teachers with the Principal and other Admin people at the school. Finally, he will get shunned a bit because he is trying to introduce 'foreign' ideas.

 

The young teacher will either be told to 'shut up' and do so OR he will embark on a very long journey to amass certificates and seniority in order to implement some of the new things that he learned; that will take a loooooong time. Eventually, that young teacher will have amassed enough clout to finally change things, but by then he will be one of the 'old guard' fearful of the 'new upstarts' and their 'newfangled ideas'.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

Ad nauseam.

 

If you want to see change in the Thai education system, and everyone should, you need drastic, radical action. 

 

Step one: enter the Bangkok Ministry of Education building and fire 80% of the people working there. Literally. They are the ones who created the current monstrosity and they are the ones who will sabotage any chance of reform.

 

Step two: enter the Provincial Ministry of education building(s) and fire 75% of the people working there.

 

Step three; enter every school in the Kingdom and inform the Principal that if 50% of his senior students don't pass the nation-wide tests, he will be fired.

 

Step four: give the Principal some autonomy to hire/fire and/or discipline staff

 

Step Five: if it doesn't work the first year, do it again for a second, third, and fourth year.

 

Drastic? Yup. Revolutionary? Yup. Serious? Yup. Needed? Yup.

 

But, I ain't holding my breath...

 

 

I would think that most teachers here would not make the grade to even teach Kindergarten students in Oz.

[Miss Pickle]

I don’t think Teachers should be turning up at school in shorts and a T shirt and they should teach the kids in Australia to drop the word Mate so annoying.

[herfiehandbag]

19 hours ago, Smithson said:

Except that it wastes time when kids should be learning, which is what school's for. If discipline is needed let the teacher do it in the classroom.

 

I went to school in the 70s/80s. We only had Monday morning assembly, by high school it was seated in an auditorium. The assemblies here remind me of Nuremberg rallies, kids in various styles of uniform, standing in formation with flags and paraphernalia, while the headmaster gets excited at the podium.

 

Sometimes it just goes a touch too far, like this guy who pulled a gun at assembly after being accused of raping a 15 year old student. Would love to know if he's been charged for either crime or even sacked.

https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/principal-accused-of-sex-with-student-pulls-gun-at-songkhla-school-assembly-video/

I find it quite remarkable that any of the children corralled into the assembly were taking the slightest bit of notice of whatever the nasty little buffoon standing in front of them said or did!

[JohnHans]

Simply compare Thailand's schools to schools in Vietnam, You don't need to go so far to understand Thai's attitude to many things are very dumb.

[ikke1959]

17 hours ago, EricTh said:

 

I didn't know all these. I applied for an English teacher post before in Thailand but they didn't hire me because I didn't have any teaching experience.

 

So no students are allowed to fail in Thai schools?

 

Indeed, students can not fail. If they fail they come to school and because they are coming for a second time, they are passed. Of course they have to do a test again, but is not important anymore. As a teacher you are almost obliged to give high scores. low scores makes you a bad teachers. Students know that so they don't work in the lessons. They know the system and the teacher can't do anything, very frustrating, because mostly the teacher are being blamed for the bad results. Students are always the good ones, even as a few weeks ago a teacher get so angry, because she was motivated to teach them. It ended up with her resignation.  There is a lot to change in the education system here

[EricTh]

2 minutes ago, ikke1959 said:

Indeed, students can not fail. If they fail they come to school and because they are coming for a second time, they are passed. Of course they have to do a test again, but is not important anymore. As a teacher you are almost obliged to give high scores. low scores makes you a bad teachers. Students know that so they don't work in the lessons. They know the system and the teacher can't do anything, very frustrating, because mostly the teacher are being blamed for the bad results. Students are always the good ones, even as a few weeks ago a teacher get so angry, because she was motivated to teach them. It ended up with her resignation.  There is a lot to change in the education system here

 

Were you a teacher in Thailand before?

 

[ikke1959]

38 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

Were you a teacher in Thailand before?

 

yes

[kwilco]

18 hours ago, nchuckle said:

 I went to Singapore on their 50th independence celebrations to stop my daughter off who was doing a years student exchange at a top university there. I found nothing of what you speak ,just a very knowledgeable,helpful successful people. It was the making of my daughter and helped her get a very good job back in the U.K. Compared to thailand where they can’t do simple sums without a calculator and have very low levels of English,it’s light years ahead.

The fact you base your assessment on this topic on a si gke personal anecdote would make some question your own level of education.

Critics of the education system, including some parents, state that education in Singapore is too specialized, rigid, and elitist. Although some efforts of these sorts have been made, many Singaporean children continue to face high pressure by parents and teachers to do well in studies.

[Chongalulu]

1 hour ago, kwilco said:

The fact you base your assessment on this topic on a si gke personal anecdote would make some question your own level of education.

Critics of the education system, including some parents, state that education in Singapore is too specialized, rigid, and elitist. Although some efforts of these sorts have been made, many Singaporean children continue to face high pressure by parents and teachers to do well in studies.

No,I included the PISA educational tables alongside my anecdotal experience- and my education is paid for public school-. My point,which appears to escape you (perhaps your own educational shortcomings?) is that whatever Singapore’s shortcomings in their system pales into insignificance compared to the appalling performance of the Thai system,not to mention a number of Western counties where basic numeracy and literacy gives cause for concern.

[herfiehandbag]

3 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

Indeed, students can not fail. If they fail they come to school and because they are coming for a second time, they are passed. Of course they have to do a test again, but is not important anymore. As a teacher you are almost obliged to give high scores. low scores makes you a bad teachers. Students know that so they don't work in the lessons. They know the system and the teacher can't do anything, very frustrating, because mostly the teacher are being blamed for the bad results. Students are always the good ones, even as a few weeks ago a teacher get so angry, because she was motivated to teach them. It ended up with her resignation.  There is a lot to change in the education system here

I've just completed producing the scores and grades for the year for the classes I teach. It was (as ever) made quite clear to me that everyone was to get at least 65% (grade 2.5).

 

I tried to make it as clear as I could, to anyone with half a brain looking at these mark sheets, that anyone getting 65% was an idle knacker who had done no work or made no effort. Any child who has worked, and made an effort, frankly regardless of the standard achieved, got 70% (grade 3). If you look at the spread of marks there is a complete void between 65% and 70%. The only real judgement was applied in deciding between grades 3.5 and 4 (75% and 80%) . At least that is fair to those children who tried, even if their true marks were really in the 60s.

Edited April 22, 2021 by herfiehandbag

[ikke1959]

1 hour ago, herfiehandbag said:

I've just completed producing the scores and grades for the year for the classes I teach. It was (as ever) made quite clear to me that everyone was to get at least 65% (grade 2.5).

 

I tried to make it as clear as I could, to anyone with half a brain looking at these mark sheets, that anyone getting 65% was an idle knacker who had done no work or made no effort. Any child who has worked, and made an effort, frankly regardless of the standard achieved, got 70% (grade 3). If you look at the spread of marks there is a complete void between 65% and 70%. The only real judgement was applied in deciding between grades 3.5 and 4 (75% and 80%) . At least that is fair to those children who tried, even if their true marks were really in the 60s.

And you know as well as me that our low scores probably will be changed by the Thai teacher...So mostly I gave them the real points they earned on the blackboard, so that everybody could see the points of their friends.  And zero is zero and 80% is 80% and believe me they know exactly who is participating and who doesn't do anything... but I nailed them and I hoped they would worked harder.... but that is the same as TAT for the tourists now.... hope....

Edited April 22, 2021 by ikke1959

[herfiehandbag]

4 hours ago, ikke1959 said:

And you know as well as me that our low scores probably will be changed by the Thai teacher...So mostly I gave them the real points they earned on the blackboard, so that everybody could see the points of their friends.  And zero is zero and 80% is 80% and believe me they know exactly who is participating and who doesn't do anything... but I nailed them and I hoped they would worked harder.... but that is the same as TAT for the tourists now.... hope....

We have a central computer programme into which we enter the scores. My understanding is  that once I have entered in the scores, and pressed "record" the scores cannot be changed. That said there will certainly be some way in which the system can be fudged, for sure.

[gearbox]

On 4/21/2021 at 10:09 PM, BritManToo said:

Sort of surprising as Oz has (arguably) the worst education system in the western world.

 

Ugh, why do we need a better one? Our economy is houses and holes. We dig dirt and sell it to the world.  No need of good education to do this.

Actually there are some schools in NSW which are very competitive at international level. These are mainly selective schools (need to pass exams to get a place), and the pupils are generally 90% plus Asian.

 

[kwilco]

Here's an anecdote that illustrates the "no-fail" concept. A teacher fails a student who basically hasn't attended for most of the year and is quite incapable of answering anything on his test.

So the head teacher tells the other teacher that the student will have to come in over the holidays and study until he passes the paper.

.....and the teacher will be responsible for teaching him and seeing that he passes.....

So the teacher just ups his grade to a pass and takes his holiday as normal.

 

 

Most Thai teachers are aware of this and set papers accordingly. 

 

I have witnessed students taking 1 hour tests and ALL left after 10 to 15 minutes.

 

The worst spect of this kind of "testing" is that is extends throughout the Thai educational system....right up to tertiary education. many professionals in Thailand qualify without "failing" any exams

For instance, anyone with a bit of medical knowledge would be horrified talking to some "qualified" doctors, whose scienceeducation level would shame an O level student in the UK.

 

 

[kwilco]

On 4/21/2021 at 12:20 PM, CharlieH said:

With envelopes being handed over to even get the child into the school to start with, how likely is that child going to fail having paid ? Be realistic, it aint gonna happen.

I think there is a general underestimation by foreigners of the extent to which graft, nepotism and corruption permeates Thai society,,,,and how it works....... brown envelopes isn't the norm but corruption is.

I've given an example (or two)elsewhere of how corruption in the education system can work.... it is far more subtle than just giving cash and this is part of the reason why it is considered acceptable by so many people in Thailand (over 60%).

A students family can exert all sorts of pressure on a school or university to advance (undeservedly) their offspring's progress.

One has also to consider how the concept of "kreng jai" works here. Especially in how a teacher might use face if a student fails - so one has to help save face - this is regraded as a "good deed" and probably worthy of merit!

Sometimes "corruption" doesn't require any communication at all, it is just understood as part and parcel of the education system.

 

Edited April 22, 2021 by kwilco

[scorecard]

18 hours ago, JohnHans said:

Simply compare Thailand's schools to schools in Vietnam, You don't need to go so far to understand Thai's attitude to many things are very dumb.

Just one example, I've taught executive MBA programs in Ho Chi Minh and Hanoi for many years. The students are all Vietnamese (exch/foreign students welcome but very rare).

 

They all speak perfect English. Always polite and respectful to the other students and the lecturer, always come to lectures/discussions/team project sessions on time and they all contribute and everybody is respected.

 

But more to the point they are well informed and well balance people, capable of complex/insightful discussion about business, civil society and world affairs and they can readily / have no hesitation to explain their comments in depth. Impressive.

 

(One major big Thai investor in VN has become so impressed with it's local staff in VN (leadership / management /  technical / engineering / marketing / operational staff, at all levels), they have brought them to Bkk to lead / manage / contribute technically to several business units.) 

 

I was invited by the same company to a major annual internal seminar /management review a couple of years back in Bkk, conducted in English. The VN managers and experts (and some from other countries) were impressive and made several valuable comments and proposals, most of which were implemented within the following several months.