Thailand to combine Sinovac, AstraZeneca vaccine doses to boost protection - minister

[Isaan sailor]

3 minutes ago, gearbox said:

Most of the governments in the world are largely contributing to the vaccine confusion by not publishing daily breakthrough cases for partially and fully immunized people, including hospitalization and deaths. IMO WHO should issue a directive for this. Otherwise you get tons of useless discussions and threads with opinions from people who lack basic logical and numerical skills. There are already nearly 4 billion jabs dispensed already,  enough to start producing daily stats for breakthrough cases.

 

There are nearly 10 million jabs dispensed already in Thailand, if the vaccines used are not effective enough where are the breakthrough deaths? Not happening or the government not disclosing the numbers?

 

Assume the latter.

[Bkk Brian]

Thai study shows antibody levels after 2 doses of Sinovac drop 50% every 40 days

Clinical research has shown that the antibody levels in a person fully inoculated with two doses of the Chinese-made Sinovac vaccine drops by half every 40 days, according to Dr. Anan Jongkaewwattana, a virology researcher at the National Centre for Engineering and Biotechnology (BIOTEC).

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/thai-study-shows-antibody-levels-after-2-doses-of-sinovac-drop-50-every-40-days/

[jerrymahoney]

U.S. Officials Press Pfizer for More Evidence of Need for Booster Shot

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/12/us/politics/pfizer-booster-shots.html  July 12, 2021

 

“Antibody response is not the only measure of immune protection,” said Dr. Leana S. Wen, a former health commissioner for Baltimore. “There have been multiple studies that suggest these vaccines also stimulate B cell and T cell immunity, so even if there isn’t as much antibody, that doesn’t mean someone isn’t protected.”

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by jerrymahoney

[Bkk Brian]

Justifying their decisions with this new study, however the study on delta variant mentions two shots of Sinovac followed by one shot AZ, that makes far more sense then one Sinovac and one AZ

 

Mix and match vaccinations can boost immunity effectively – Dr. Yong

 

The “Mix and Match” vaccination practice, in which a shot of a whole virus vaccine is followed by a shot of a vector vaccine, can boost immunity, according to prominent Thai virologist Prof. Dr. Yong Poovorawan, head of Chulalongkorn University’s Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology.

 

He said the centre is also conducting a study on the Delta variant, which is becoming more dominant in many countries, including Thailand, and on T cell immunity. Dr. Yong said that the mix and match approach of Sinovac and AstraZeneca can boost immunity within six weeks, as opposed to 12 weeks needed for vector vaccines, and that using AstraZeneca as a third shot, after two Sinovac shots, will help achieve “very high level of antibodies”.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/mix-and-match-vaccinations-can-boost-immunity-effectively-dr-yong/

[MrJ2U]

23 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

Wow very interesting.  So, those that have only one Sinovac will now get a Astrazeneca?

Sounds good but have there been sufficient studies on the safety/efficacy of this mix of vaccines?  

 

No studies.

 

Astra Zeneca said:

"Up to you"

 

Sinovac:

"No comment"

 

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by MrJ2U
Additional information

[Ginner]

23 hours ago, lolalol said:

Shouldn't they just trash sinovac? Or are they? Just not in the trash can...

They are selling it to the private hospitals to sell to foreigners ha!. Plus shouldn't the Army Government take responsibility for this out break? They were the ones who allowed Songkran to go ahead this year, against the advise of doctors. because the PM and the Health minister knew better. Allowing Thousands of infected Thais to travel all over Thailand spreading it, then trying to pass the blame on to immigrants and foreigners .

 

[thailand49]

China's ATTABOY W.H.O. says mixing vaccines is a bad idea!  Most likely means Sinovac is the best!  555 LOL!

[thaitom]

2 hours ago, samtam said:

Where is "here"?

Here= Phopphra.

[bradiston]

4 hours ago, samtam said:

I'm curious how you were able to get Sinovac (in February? or recently?), and your second shot next week. Did you have some special entry, like working for a conglomerate? Many over 60 with comorbidities haven't had one jab of either. Myself included, despite asking my hospital/doctor about vaxx in February. I am scheduled to get my first dose of something next week, but until that needle is in my arm, I will not count that chicken.

 

As well as my hospital/doctor, I have registered with various other places, all of which have come to naught thus far. 

 

Yes, with what they've procured, less the 5% fully vaxxed is indeed impressive. Therein lies the rub. Procurement has been a disaster of epic proportions, which is now bearing the rotten fruit we should all dread, vaccinated or not.

Sorry, I didn't make it very clear. I meant to say, since February, they have obtained about 12m shots of Sinovac. I got a Sinovac shot in June, via thailandintervac. Just got lucky. 2nd shot upcoming soon, but yet to find out what, now they've introduced the 2nd shot AZ policy. Not sure if it just refers to frontline but will find out soon. Keep you guys posted, if I'm still around!

Edited July 13, 2021 by bradiston

[MrJ2U]

No other options.

 

Incredibly bad planning.  The most corrupt and inept government ever to rule such a fine country.

[jwbrit]

On 7/12/2021 at 11:42 AM, bkk6060 said:

Wow very interesting.  So, those that have only one Sinovac will now get a Astrazeneca?

Sounds good but have there been sufficient studies on the safety/efficacy of this mix of vaccines?  

 

Anti vaxer's heads will explode!

[cjinchiangrai]

Since there are no better options, I will take it. Anything is better than waiting for the covid to get here. The Sinovac significantly reduces the severity.

 

[Tug]

Here’s a thought just get the good one to begin with........wow!

[Huckenfell]

10 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Just saw this from a poster on another thread:

 

GENEVA (Reuters) – The World Health Organization’s chief scientist on Monday advised against people mixing and matching COVID-19 vaccines from different manufacturers, calling it a “dangerous trend” since there was little data available about the health impact.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/who-warns-against-mixing-and-matching-covid-vaccines/

The longer this goes on, the more convinced i am that we are dealing with Experimental Vaccinations, hoping that they work.

 

[jwbrit]

On 7/12/2021 at 11:40 AM, ourmanflint said:

So basically wasting all of these AZ vaccines on boosters because the sinovac govt bought turned out to be useless.

Boosters OK for health care workers, but with barely 10% of the population vaccinated, Thailand needs to get a plan in gear to vaccinate everyone else.

[Joinaman]

On 7/12/2021 at 5:42 PM, bkk6060 said:

Wow very interesting.  So, those that have only one Sinovac will now get a Astrazeneca?

Sounds good but have there been sufficient studies on the safety/efficacy of this mix of vaccines?  

 

you are the studies ! If it works, then good

If it fails or effects you, tough sh@t

But i thought the W.H.O has said not to mix these vaccines due to lack of testing and unknown effects ?

[bradiston]

50 minutes ago, JohnHans said:

How do we know its real Sinovac? could be rose water as far as we know, like many Chinese products it might be simply FAKE.

 

I have the lot number and the serial number of the shot I was given, on the hospital next appointment print out. Also, one of the side effects was an enormous stiffy, which I'm told is a well documented occurrence. Now that IS fake!

[Midwit]

4 hours ago, samtam said:

Can't we do everything - exercise to keep our immune systems at their best, eat a diet that enhances that, take Ivermectin if you believe in it, AND get a vaccination? I'm lacking in the last piece, because I can't get it. The first two are my normal lifestyle, enhanced by giving up alcohol for the foreseeable. On top of that, I only ventured out to go grocery shopping once a week, but now I have that done by a personal shopper, and it's delivered. I have ceased regular or prolonged contact with anyone, except my partner. Even the maid has been paused, because I want to avoid transmissibility either way. 

Wow sounds like a great life you have built for yourself. Maybe more lockdowns are needed to keep you safe. 

[Bkk Brian]

Sounds like Vietnam has it right:

 

HANOI(Reuters) - Vietnam will offer the coronavirus vaccine jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech as a second dose option for people first inoculated with the AstraZeneca vaccine, the government said on Tuesday.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1223920-vietnam-to-mix-doses-of-pfizer-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccines/

 

[bangon04]

"Sinovac spokesman Liu Peicheng ....... suggested a third Sinovac shot could elicit more durable antibody reaction.

 

 

well we sure didn't see that one coming.........

[bradiston]

13 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Sounds like Vietnam has it right:

 

HANOI(Reuters) - Vietnam will offer the coronavirus vaccine jointly developed by Pfizer and BioNTech as a second dose option for people first inoculated with the AstraZeneca vaccine, the government said on Tuesday.

 

https://aseannow.com/topic/1223920-vietnam-to-mix-doses-of-pfizer-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccines/

 

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, received Moderna after AstraZaneca. Germany decided the AstraZaneca vaccine came with some possible dangerous side effects, but after initially banning its use, they restarted administering it. But they say now a second shot of a different vaccine is advisable.

[Bkk Brian]

2 minutes ago, bradiston said:

Angela Merkel, the German chancellor, received Moderna after AstraZaneca. Germany decided the AstraZaneca vaccine came with some possible dangerous side effects, but after initially banning its use, they restarted administering it. But they say now a second shot of a different vaccine is advisable.

Yes I'm aware Angela did, it was international news. There's several countries doing the same.

 

This to me is far more acceptable than watering down a dose of AZ with a dose of Sinovac

 

 

[bangon04]

13 hours ago, vandeventer said:

It seem like there is no use by date on Sinovac and it keeps growing and growing. Soon they will tell us it's great in coffee.

From the other thread....."Sinovac spokesman Liu Peicheng ...............suggested a third Sinovac shot could elicit more durable antibody reaction."

 

wow - no escaping that logic....

[Chelseafan]

14 hours ago, EricTh said:

This is the principle of microbiology that is well known even among the medical students.

 

Straight from the horse's mouth (Dr William Moss of John Hopkins Vaccine Center) in the video below.

 

 

The evidence is in the spike of cases in UK, Israel who had most of their citizens vaccinated. The devastating effect in India caused by Delta variant is well known.

I'm talking deaths not transmissions.

[Seeall]

On 7/12/2021 at 6:04 PM, greenmonkey said:

Now they are really in the s#%t! This is the govt basically admitting that sinovac is useless but thats all we got so tough. Seriously, will the Thai's stand for this!? I hope not.

they have no choice....  do as ur told....

[CANSIAM]

On 7/12/2021 at 6:09 PM, Crossy said:

Has this actually been tested? Results?

 

Having got lucky and had my first shot of Az I hope they don't decide that the other way round is also good to go, and replace my second Az shot with Sinovac.

 

As another 'lucky one', if thats the case with my second being replaced with Sinovac - I will be walking out...... as stated on here already, with an AZ/Sinovac vaccine passport card you will be quarantined on arrival in most other countries ! 

Edited July 13, 2021 by CANSIAM

[Seeall]

10 hours ago, Midwit said:

Wow sounds like a great life you have built for yourself. Maybe more lockdowns are needed to keep you safe. 

life is good.....

[wensiensheng]

14 hours ago, Bkk Brian said:

Justifying their decisions with this new study, however the study on delta variant mentions two shots of Sinovac followed by one shot AZ, that makes far more sense then one Sinovac and one AZ

 

Mix and match vaccinations can boost immunity effectively – Dr. Yong

 

The “Mix and Match” vaccination practice, in which a shot of a whole virus vaccine is followed by a shot of a vector vaccine, can boost immunity, according to prominent Thai virologist Prof. Dr. Yong Poovorawan, head of Chulalongkorn University’s Centre of Excellence in Clinical Virology.

 

He said the centre is also conducting a study on the Delta variant, which is becoming more dominant in many countries, including Thailand, and on T cell immunity. Dr. Yong said that the mix and match approach of Sinovac and AstraZeneca can boost immunity within six weeks, as opposed to 12 weeks needed for vector vaccines, and that using AstraZeneca as a third shot, after two Sinovac shots, will help achieve “very high level of antibodies”.

 

https://www.thaipbsworld.com/mix-and-match-vaccinations-can-boost-immunity-effectively-dr-yong/

Yes, conducting a study on 2 sinovac and 1 AZ, then announcing a 1 sinovac and 1 AZ regime, means that the study is irrelevant.

 

in addition, just how long can this “study” have been running? A month? Two? As for peer review, forget it. No mention of scope or scale either.

 

they are panicking over how bad it might get in the next 12 weeks imho. So just doing whatever they can to get through that, but totally hamstrung by only having plentiful supplies of the least effective vaccine vs delta, and limited supplies of the second least effective. .

 

in other words, a mess. I for one shall not be touching their cocktail with a barge pole.

[Bkk Brian]

22 minutes ago, wensiensheng said:

Yes, conducting a study on 2 sinovac and 1 AZ, then announcing a 1 sinovac and 1 AZ regime, means that the study is irrelevant.

 

in addition, just how long can this “study” have been running? A month? Two? As for peer review, forget it. No mention of scope or scale either.

 

they are panicking over how bad it might get in the next 12 weeks imho. So just doing whatever they can to get through that, but totally hamstrung by only having plentiful supplies of the least effective vaccine vs delta, and limited supplies of the second least effective. .

 

in other words, a mess. I for one shall not be touching their cocktail with a barge pole.

The Philippines is looking at possibly doing this, however they are taking a more scientific approach, ie a safer approach with a study period of 5 months rather then the Thai throw some mud at the wall and see what sticks:

 

FDA: Mix-and-match technique with Sinovac vaccine still up in the air

 

The DOST's study, which runs from June 2021 to November 2022, primarily seeks to evaluate Sinovac's effectivity when administered as first dose, and eventually combined with other available brands in the country.

 

The vaccine efficacy will include the possible mixing and matching.]

"(Since we are) one of the countries that are using more Sinovac than other brands and it’s not being studied by other countries now, so we're going to have to do it ourselves," he said.

 

https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2021/7/9/Sinovac-vaccine-mix-and-match.html

Edited July 14, 2021 by Bkk Brian

[wensiensheng]

1 minute ago, Bkk Brian said:

The Philippines is looking at possibly doing this, however they are taking a more scientific approach, ie a safer approach with a study period of 5 months rather then the Thai throw some mud at the wall and see what sticks:

 

FDA: Mix-and-match technique with Sinovac vaccine still up in the air

 

The DOST's study, which runs from June 2021 to November 2022, primarily seeks to evaluate Sinovac's effectivity when administered as first dose, and eventually combined with other available brands in the country.

 

The vaccine efficacy will include the possible mixing and matching.]

"(Since we are) one of the countries that are using more Sinovac than other brands and it’s not being studied by other countries now, so we're going to have to do it ourselves," he said.

 

https://cnnphilippines.com/news/2021/7/9/Sinovac-vaccine-mix-and-match.html

In the long run, more in depth research may save time, money and lives. Jumping at something that initially shows some promise but subsequently might not, is a recipe for eventually having to go back over what has  already been done. 
 

when you are talking millions and millions of people, let alone doses, it’s no small undertaking to redo a lot of it.