Pattaya: Dead as a Dodo

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Salerno said:

Why?

If you don't know why, I doubt I could explain it without transgressing forum rules.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, newnative said:

     You and many others posting here tend to be too focused on western tourists.  More than a few times posters have said 2019 was the deadest they have seen Pattaya.  In reality, it was a booming year--as it was for all of Thailand with almost 40 million visitors in 2019.  A poster's local western bar may not have been busy but Pattaya as a whole was.  Comparing 2019 central Pattaya to the current 2021 central Pattaya is staggering. 

     When posters finally focus on something besides western tourists, it's almost solely on Chinese tourists, with occasionally Russian numbers thrown in.  One example, your post I am responding to. Of course, Chinese tourists are the largest--over 10 million in 2019 visited Thailand.  But there were 14 million visitors in 2019 from other Asian countries, not counting Laos, Cambodia, or Burma.  That's a large number, too, and often overlooked.  Put the two together and you're at 24 million and change. I suspect Thailand would be thrilled to get back to that number sometime down the road.

24 million tourists were destroying Thailand and you want to go back to those numbers?

 

As far as Pattaya is concerned, the number of tour buses on the roads was way too congesting, and Larn beaches were too unpleasant to visit what with the speedboats coming and going frequently all day.

However, if all one cares about is lotsacash, it was doing well. Just wasn't a place that many western tourists wanted to visit any more, IMO.

They already destroyed Maya Bay, do they need to destroy Pattaya and Larn as well?

[Mac Mickmanus]

4 hours ago, scubascuba3 said:

Yeah yeah thaifriendly etc is very popular but girls still like working somewhere rather than being isolated in a room so i suspect both will work 

That depends whether they have a life outside from the bar life . For some girls their whole life revolves around the bar and the bar scene and they will always go to a bar . 

  For girls who have a life away from the bar , they would be less inclined to want to go to a bar every night

[morrobay]

17 hours ago, DLock said:

 

 

...and start brushing up on your Chinese language skills 

The only Chinese I need: for the girls, how much? And for the males, you know what you can do with your cigarette.

[scubascuba3]

39 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That depends whether they have a life outside from the bar life . For some girls their whole life revolves around the bar and the bar scene and they will always go to a bar . 

  For girls who have a life away from the bar , they would be less inclined to want to go to a bar every night

my recent experience is a couple of girls new in the game and to Pattaya stayed at a hotel, very popular on TF, a couple weeks later moved to a massage shop, they like the bar massage shop interaction

[Mac Mickmanus]

1 minute ago, scubascuba3 said:

my recent experience is a couple of girls new in the game and to Pattaya stayed at a hotel, very popular on TF, a couple weeks later moved to a massage shop, they like the bar massage shop interaction

What other options did they have in their life ?

Did they have somewhere else to go or something to do ?

Or was the only other option to sit at home doing nothing ?

[scubascuba3]

29 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

What other options did they have in their life ?

Did they have somewhere else to go or something to do ?

Or was the only other option to sit at home doing nothing ?

Their options in Pattaya were stay working from home and use thaifriendly, or work in a massage shop. Back in Isaan I don't know I didn't ask them, presumably no good alternatives, same story 1000s of times

[champers]

On 7/24/2021 at 10:49 PM, Jumbo1968 said:

These people know some thing we don’t ?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rgluckman/2021/07/08/thai-real-estate-giant-bets-big-on-tourism-rebound-with-32-billion-growth-plan/?sh=5624868c3ecd

I bet they do.????

The Grand Sole hotel on 2nd Road and huge swathes of land nearby are under AWC or Chang ownership. It's as if they are waiting for a green light before putting shovels in the ground. Maybe a change of PM will herald a new dawn.

Edited July 26, 2021 by champers

[Jumbo1968]

5 minutes ago, champers said:

I bet they do.????

The Grand Sole hotel on 2nd Road and huge swathes of land nearby are under AWC or Chang ownership. It's as if they are waiting for a green light before putting shovels in the ground. Maybe a change of PM will herald a new dawn.

Change of PM, apologies for being negative he would only be replaced with one of his army cronies.

Unless there is a revolution which won’t happen Thailand will be stuck in a time warp for years.

[champers]

1 minute ago, Jumbo1968 said:

Change of PM, apologies for being negative he would only be replaced with one of his army cronies.

Unless there is a revolution which won’t happen Thailand will be stuck in a time warp for years.

I do agree with you. The current PM seems quite "conservative" in his attitudes to drinking, gambling and the sex industry. A new General may be more "liberal", perhaps depending on who his backers in the business world are.

[Salerno]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If you don't know why, I doubt I could explain it without transgressing forum rules.

Yes, that's what I thought 

[Espanol]

16 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

That depends whether they have a life outside from the bar life . For some girls their whole life revolves around the bar and the bar scene and they will always go to a bar . 

  For girls who have a life away from the bar , they would be less inclined to want to go to a bar every night

 

Perhaps Thai Friendly will replace Beach Road as a place where to pick up girls, but it will never replace Walking Street. 

 

[jwdub12]

1 hour ago, Espanol said:

 

Perhaps Thai Friendly will replace Beach Road as a place where to pick up girls, but it will never replace Walking Street. 

 

That will be left up to the whole Tree town, LKMetro, and Soi Buckhao area.

[Leaver]

On 7/26/2021 at 7:04 AM, scubascuba3 said:

Yeah yeah thaifriendly etc is very popular but girls still like working somewhere rather than being isolated in a room so i suspect both will work 

 

Depends how well the girl is doing online.  

 

A pretty girl, or a humorous girl with good English, may find sitting in a bar a waste of her time. 

 

I agree, they like to gossip together and have fun, so maybe the online girls will only freelance out of bars, so they can be on their phones, and when a customer messages, they just leave the bar for a hour, or for the rest of the night, if long time.  

 

This was happening pre covid.  Some of the girls on the apps you can see the bar they are in, yet they say they will come to you.    

 

Post covid, what's left of the bars, and any new bars, may not have the revenue to pay salaries to bar girls, so perhaps the freelance business model may become common practice.  

 

As I have said before, digital will put a lot of pressure on the lady drinks and bar fines business model, and bars may chose to have mainly freelancers who enjoy the company of other bar girls, who will also be there for a lady drink or bar fine, should a customer offer, but will engage with customers on their phone, and leave at a moments notice should they get a customer online. 

 

This business model is not entirely bad for the bars.  What they lose in lady drinks and bar fines, they make up for by not having to pay salaries.    if a bar is jammed, the girl might not even both replying to messages from potential customers.  

[JDJD]

Like a rubber band or the markets, or Newton's third law, Pattaya, and the entertainment hubs of Thailand will bounce back with a vengeance. Yes, the entire world is itching to come. Numbers will be up, money will be spent, but the scope of the rebound will be much much narrower indeed. The wealth gap will continue to grow, leaving many left behind in education and experience. This rebound will be short lived BECAUSE of that distribution. The answer to many may not seem evident, but is really quite simple. The THB/USD must fall another $10. Prices for airfare, hotels, and entertainment must fall as well, and near 0% loans need to be given to certain, proven, "super small" Thai business people that are actually spent. Prop up the prices upon any kind of opening to try and make up for lost time, and the boom WILL be short lived! Build Thailands NEW reputation upon the OLD reputation. Value and COVID discounts, easier and extended visas, and slowly rebuild over the next 10 successful years. Something akin to a 10 year happy happy happy hour! Keep trying to gut westerners by offering $6-15 hamburgers, ฿500 cab fares around the corner, 2KST 5KLT, and good riddance to you. A select few Thai's might well pay off their outstanding loans but that will surely be the end of that. Again. The money spent will not be circulated. This is true worldwide. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and..... It's not even close to being over. New, unrealistic business loans will be given to people that want a piece of the gold rush. Money will be spent on LV bags, Louboutin kicks and fancy whips,  just to lure in that big fish, or to impress their neighbor.  As the person said earlier. People that used to frequent pawnshops can't pawn and they certainly can't buy. I've been coming to Thailand for 6 years. Every year I hear, "This year Is not as good as every year prior.". This is an ever changing event for every person on the planet. And not any more so than in Thailand. If you think "normal" will ever return, if you fear the unknown, this is certainly not the time for you. The change is right in front of your faces, and we're not even standing for the 7th inning stretch. Not to mention, without a whiff of GFE, simply a PayPal transaction and a pre-negotiated message on TF, and the lottery winners will be even more few and far between. Let's face it folks. The people we are mostly referring to on this Expat-ish forum are Expats. I mean, Thai ladies, on the whole, fancy who the best lovers are. The French kissers, the machismo Italians, or the well spoken Americans. Are people from neighboring countries going to fill that particular void?  Ummmmmmmm... No! They will mostly be unwelcome and resented. They will, however, fill the coffers of the elite. The affordability is why  Expats have come to Thailand for such a long time. Now is the time, i suspect,  Thailand will chose to welcome neighboring tourists, as Westerners will NOT easily adapt to rate hikes and digital transformation. Unfortunately, the Thais, most likely, will not put up with wage declines and their own neighbors as hospitable as they have us Westerners. Kiss the Bar-girl monthly salaries, bar-fines and ฿180 lady drinks goodbye. The business model is changing right before your eyes. You can be change or stand in the way of it. Change is inevitable. The normal we knew from even 3 years ago is gone! It will be nice to be a rare relic and valued commodity in Thailand come 2030. 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, JDJD said:

Like a rubber band or the markets, or Newton's third law, Pattaya, and the entertainment hubs of Thailand will bounce back with a vengeance. Yes, the entire world is itching to come. Numbers will be up, money will be spent, but the scope of the rebound will be much much narrower indeed. The wealth gap will continue to grow, leaving many left behind in education and experience. This rebound will be short lived BECAUSE of that distribution. The answer to many may not seem evident, but is really quite simple. The THB/USD must fall another $10. Prices for airfare, hotels, and entertainment must fall as well, and near 0% loans need to be given to certain, proven, "super small" Thai business people that are actually spent. Prop up the prices upon any kind of opening to try and make up for lost time, and the boom WILL be short lived! Build Thailands NEW reputation upon the OLD reputation. Value and COVID discounts, easier and extended visas, and slowly rebuild over the next 10 successful years. Something akin to a 10 year happy happy happy hour! Keep trying to gut westerners by offering $6-15 hamburgers, ฿500 cab fares around the corner, 2KST 5KLT, and good riddance to you. A select few Thai's might well pay off their outstanding loans but that will surely be the end of that. Again. The money spent will not be circulated. This is true worldwide. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and..... It's not even close to being over. New, unrealistic business loans will be given to people that want a piece of the gold rush. Money will be spent on LV bags, Louboutin kicks and fancy whips,  just to lure in that big fish, or to impress their neighbor.  As the person said earlier. People that used to frequent pawnshops can't pawn and they certainly can't buy. I've been coming to Thailand for 6 years. Every year I hear, "This year Is not as good as every year prior.". This is an ever changing event for every person on the planet. And not any more so than in Thailand. If you think "normal" will ever return, if you fear the unknown, this is certainly not the time for you. The change is right in front of your faces, and we're not even standing for the 7th inning stretch. Not to mention, without a whiff of GFE, simply a PayPal transaction and a pre-negotiated message on TF, and the lottery winners will be even more few and far between. Let's face it folks. The people we are mostly referring to on this Expat-ish forum are Expats. I mean, Thai ladies, on the whole, fancy who the best lovers are. The French kissers, the machismo Italians, or the well spoken Americans. Are people from neighboring countries going to fill that particular void?  Ummmmmmmm... No! They will mostly be unwelcome and resented. They will, however, fill the coffers of the elite. The affordability is why  Expats have come to Thailand for such a long time. Now is the time, i suspect,  Thailand will chose to welcome neighboring tourists, as Westerners will NOT easily adapt to rate hikes and digital transformation. Unfortunately, the Thais, most likely, will not put up with wage declines and their own neighbors as hospitable as they have us Westerners. Kiss the Bar-girl monthly salaries, bar-fines and ฿180 lady drinks goodbye. The business model is changing right before your eyes. You can be change or stand in the way of it. Change is inevitable. The normal we knew from even 3 years ago is gone! It will be nice to be a rare relic and valued commodity in Thailand come 2030. 

I'd like to say that you are correct, but when ANY farang flies in to go to Phuket now, when that place is notorious for being expensive, I fear that the gullible will return in sufficient numbers to keep prices high.

[Espanol]

9 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'd like to say that you are correct, but when ANY farang flies in to go to Phuket now, when that place is notorious for being expensive, I fear that the gullible will return in sufficient numbers to keep prices high.

Farang flies in to go to Phuket now, because now Phuket is the only entrance to Thailand, apart ASQ hotels in Bangkok.

 

But they will spend in Phuket mandatory 14 days and will run away to their final destination in Thailand: Pattaya, Samui, Tao, Hua Hin, Chiang Mai...

 

And, anyway, most "sandboxers" are not tourists, but expats and Thais returning home from abroad. 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

On 7/26/2021 at 12:45 PM, scubascuba3 said:

my recent experience is a couple of girls new in the game and to Pattaya stayed at a hotel, very popular on TF, a couple weeks later moved to a massage shop, they like the bar massage shop interaction

The girls can suss out if they like you in a bar or wherever and whether you are gonna pay them. 

 

Picking guys up online is a lottery and higher risk for them. 

[scubascuba3]

10 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The girls can suss out if they like you in a bar or wherever and whether you are gonna pay them. 

 

Picking guys up online is a lottery and higher risk for them. 

Losers that don't pay really are the low of the low

[morrobay]

4 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

The girls can suss out if they like you in a bar or wherever and whether you are gonna pay them. 

 

Picking guys up online is a lottery and higher risk for them. 

That's a two way street. That's why I always just arrange only for a massage initially so I can suss her out for the next level. Yesterday this girl visited: profile 48 kg. I weighed her at 56 kg. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Golden Triangle]

On 8/2/2021 at 3:35 AM, JDJD said:

Like a rubber band or the markets, or Newton's third law, Pattaya, and the entertainment hubs of Thailand will bounce back with a vengeance. Yes, the entire world is itching to come. Numbers will be up, money will be spent, but the scope of the rebound will be much much narrower indeed. The wealth gap will continue to grow, leaving many left behind in education and experience. This rebound will be short lived BECAUSE of that distribution. The answer to many may not seem evident, but is really quite simple. The THB/USD must fall another $10. Prices for airfare, hotels, and entertainment must fall as well, and near 0% loans need to be given to certain, proven, "super small" Thai business people that are actually spent. Prop up the prices upon any kind of opening to try and make up for lost time, and the boom WILL be short lived! Build Thailands NEW reputation upon the OLD reputation. Value and COVID discounts, easier and extended visas, and slowly rebuild over the next 10 successful years. Something akin to a 10 year happy happy happy hour! Keep trying to gut westerners by offering $6-15 hamburgers, ฿500 cab fares around the corner, 2KST 5KLT, and good riddance to you. A select few Thai's might well pay off their outstanding loans but that will surely be the end of that. Again. The money spent will not be circulated. This is true worldwide. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and..... It's not even close to being over. New, unrealistic business loans will be given to people that want a piece of the gold rush. Money will be spent on LV bags, Louboutin kicks and fancy whips,  just to lure in that big fish, or to impress their neighbor.  As the person said earlier. People that used to frequent pawnshops can't pawn and they certainly can't buy. I've been coming to Thailand for 6 years. Every year I hear, "This year Is not as good as every year prior.". This is an ever changing event for every person on the planet. And not any more so than in Thailand. If you think "normal" will ever return, if you fear the unknown, this is certainly not the time for you. The change is right in front of your faces, and we're not even standing for the 7th inning stretch. Not to mention, without a whiff of GFE, simply a PayPal transaction and a pre-negotiated message on TF, and the lottery winners will be even more few and far between. Let's face it folks. The people we are mostly referring to on this Expat-ish forum are Expats. I mean, Thai ladies, on the whole, fancy who the best lovers are. The French kissers, the machismo Italians, or the well spoken Americans. Are people from neighboring countries going to fill that particular void?  Ummmmmmmm... No! They will mostly be unwelcome and resented. They will, however, fill the coffers of the elite. The affordability is why  Expats have come to Thailand for such a long time. Now is the time, i suspect,  Thailand will chose to welcome neighboring tourists, as Westerners will NOT easily adapt to rate hikes and digital transformation. Unfortunately, the Thais, most likely, will not put up with wage declines and their own neighbors as hospitable as they have us Westerners. Kiss the Bar-girl monthly salaries, bar-fines and ฿180 lady drinks goodbye. The business model is changing right before your eyes. You can be change or stand in the way of it. Change is inevitable. The normal we knew from even 3 years ago is gone! It will be nice to be a rare relic and valued commodity in Thailand come 2030. 

Far too long,  didn't even attempt to read it, and no paragraphs, God awful.

[jacko45k]

6 hours ago, morrobay said:

That's a two way street. That's why I always just arrange only for a massage initially so I can suss her out for the next level. Yesterday this girl visited: profile 48 kg. I weighed her at 56 kg. 

 

 

 

 

 

You weigh them?

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You weigh them?

Who said romance was dead :))

[kg1947]

Pattaya in the coming years ....

better learn Mandarin & Hindi , maybe full range : speak, read, write . the rules are getting more difficult for Europeans & North Americans,

while I am sure the Chinese & Indian are

" masters " in finding loopholes.

Walking Street , beachside buildings will be demolished , you think the balance that still stands will bring back the good old days ?

This is REALITY ....  Get used to it .....

[kinyara]

2 hours ago, kg1947 said:

Pattaya in the coming years ....

better learn Mandarin & Hindi , maybe full range : speak, read, write . the rules are getting more difficult for Europeans & North Americans,

while I am sure the Chinese & Indian are

" masters " in finding loopholes.

Walking Street , beachside buildings will be demolished , you think the balance that still stands will bring back the good old days ?

This is REALITY ....  Get used to it .....

What rules have got more difficult for Europeans & North Americans specifically as opposed to any other nationality and what rules are you talking about ?   

[lodstewart]

On 8/3/2021 at 5:37 PM, morrobay said:

profile 48 kg. I weighed her at 56 kg.

you weigh the girl before you jump her............jeez ????

[jacko45k]

12 hours ago, lodstewart said:

you weigh the girl before you jump her............jeez ????

Health and safety nut I expect......

[Leaver]

On 8/3/2021 at 7:29 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

The girls can suss out if they like you in a bar

 

They just like the money.  They don't have to like the guy that pays it.

 

On 8/3/2021 at 7:29 PM, Mr Meeseeks said:

Picking guys up online is a lottery and higher risk for them. 

How so?

 

A guy who bar fines a girl from a bar, means the bar girl is on her own when she leaves the bar with him.  It's not like the customer in the bar handed over his passport to be photocopied when he paid the bar fine.

 

No difference in risk from online or bar fine.  Actually, given a device attached to the internet, and visas cards etc may be used, probably more chance of catching an online customer for wrong doing than a bar fine customer.  

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, Leaver said:

How so?

 

A guy who bar fines a girl from a bar, means the bar girl is on her own when she leaves the bar with him.  It's not like the customer in the bar handed over his passport to be photocopied when he paid the bar fine

I think you might be wrong here. At least she has an opportunity to see the guy, even talk to him, in the bar. Maybe an opportunity to filter out the no-money types. His preliminary behaviour may throw out a few warnings. No such opportunity on-line. The girls have a bit of a network...

And she is not always on her own when she leaves bar.... with a phone available she can make a call.... i heave heard of 'boyfriends' arriving to help resolve issues. The biggest risk is likely the coconut bar.... but even then they often restrict to known short-time places..

 

 

[Leaver]

9 hours ago, jacko45k said:

I think you might be wrong here. At least she has an opportunity to see the guy, even talk to him, in the bar. Maybe an opportunity to filter out the no-money types. His preliminary behaviour may throw out a few warnings. No such opportunity on-line. The girls have a bit of a network...

And she is not always on her own when she leaves bar.... with a phone available she can make a call.... i heave heard of 'boyfriends' arriving to help resolve issues. The biggest risk is likely the coconut bar.... but even then they often restrict to known short-time places..

 

 

 

So, a guy walks into a bar, maybe has a drink, but maybe not, picks a girl and pays her bar fine.  No chatting, no lady drinks.  What opportunity for "filtering" was there?  Who is he?  Will he pay?  No passport required for a short time hotel.  

 

Of course the girl will have her phone.  I think non payment for services is not so common. 

 

In any case, on the apps, you chat via text, maybe do a video call, and I have arranged to meet in a bar, where she can "filter" me.  ????   

 

Take the Soi 6 live streams, for example.  Say a guy looks for a while and likes the appearance and moves of one of the girls on the live stream, he then sends the Nightwish group some type of electronic payment "bar fine" and the girl does an out call.  No difference to the girl working for herself, doing the same thing.