Why should I inject a vaccine that could kill me when I have no risk to be sick with covid ? A Thai boy told me, what can I reply him to push for vaccination ?

[placeholder]

19 minutes ago, l4ml4m said:

 

me too, hard to find the real news !

 

People who recovered and do not have any consequence without being vaccinated are not important for the provax propaganda...

 

 

It's the same thing with smallpox. Most people do recover from it but those damned propagandists don't want anyone to know that.

[Yellowtail]

8 hours ago, placeholder said:

It's the same thing with smallpox. Most people do recover from it but those damned propagandists don't want anyone to know that.

The US government does not compel everyone to be vaccinated for smallpox. 

 

In any event:

[LarrySR]

Most choose to not get the vaccine because of misinformation. They don't want to listen to the doctors and  "Do their own research.”  

The problem is, reading Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or watching Fox is not doing your own research.

 

[placeholder]

58 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

The US government does not compel everyone to be vaccinated for smallpox. 

 

In any event:

Nor does it compel everyone to be vaccinated for covid. But in most of the United States children were compelled to be vaccinated for smallpox. As well as members of the Armed Forces. Now that smallpox is judged to be extinct in the wild vaccinations are no longer required. Or for that matter given.

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

The US government does not compel everyone to be vaccinated for smallpox. 

 

In any event:

You may be wrong on your view that compulsory vaccines can not be mandated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts#:~:text=Jacobson v. Massachusetts%2C 197 U.S.,police power of the state.

 

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, LarrySR said:

Most choose to not get the vaccine because of misinformation. They don't want to listen to the doctors and  "Do their own research.”  

The problem is, reading Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or watching Fox is not doing your own research.

 

Because it's not really about people coming to conclusions via their own research. Rather they have their biases and they seek sources to confirm them. That's why you'll often see the same demonstrably false claim repeated ad nauseam on this forum and others. And no matter how many times you shoot it down it pops back up again.

[Yellowtail]

47 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because it's not really about people coming to conclusions via their own research. Rather they have their biases and they seek sources to confirm them. That's why you'll often see the same demonstrably false claim repeated ad nauseam on this forum and others. And no matter how many times you shoot it down it pops back up again.

So I assume it safe to say both of you met with your doctors and carefully went over the pros and cons of being vaccinated before taking your position?

 

Too funny

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

You may be wrong on your view that compulsory vaccines can not be mandated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts#:~:text=Jacobson v. Massachusetts%2C 197 U.S.,police power of the state.

 

You are confused, I never said that vaccinations cannot not be mandated. The left is doing just that, yes? 

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

So I assume it safe to say both of you met with your doctors and carefully went over the pros and cons of being vaccinated before taking your position?

 

Too funny

Some people apparently confuse doctors with scientists. I'll go with what virologists and epidemiologists recommend.

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

So I assume it safe to say both of you met with your doctors and carefully went over the pros and cons of being vaccinated before taking your position?

 

Too funny

I did exactly as you said.  I met with my Endocrinologist, since I am a diabetic and have an auto immune disorder and we discussed the vaccines in depth.  He was the one that recommended I get the AZ vaccine as it is an adenovirus vaccine and should cause me no issues based on the science and epidemiology, which it did not, neither the first jab or the second.  Of course you can poopoo it all you want but yes I asked my doctor.

Edited October 14, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

You are confused, I never said that vaccinations cannot not be mandated. The left is doing just that, yes? 

I never said you did say they could mandate vaccines, I said you may be wrong on your view. I just pointed you to an article which laid out the foundations of how each state could mandate vaccines and it was backed by the US Supreme court, which you seemed to have not understood, as you indicated the US could not compel a vaccination for smallpox. Ergo I showed you where it could compel one to have a vaccination.  Just like that, States can and do mandate vaccines and vaccinations for children to attend school etc., this as well is based upon the finding by the supreme court.

Edited October 14, 2021 by ThailandRyan

[Yellowtail]

4 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

I never said you did say they could mandate vaccines, I said you may be wrong on your view. I just pointed you to an article which laid out the foundations of how each state could mandate vaccines and it was backed by the US Supreme court, which you seemed to have not understood, as you indicated the US could not compel a vaccination for smallpox. Ergo I showed you where it could compel one to have a vaccination.  Just like that, States can and do mandate vaccines and vaccinations for children to attend school etc., this as well is based upon the finding by the supreme court.

Doubling down? Again, I never said the government could not mandate vaccines. What I said was, that "The US government does not compel everyone to be vaccinated for smallpox" And you have not pointed to anything that says differently. 

 

I may indeed be wrong, but I do not believe I am. Certainly a hundred year old court case  involving a few states doesn't convince me as (apparently) it does you.

 

 

 

[placeholder]

On 9/1/2021 at 2:21 AM, Jeffr2 said:

Which is under counted as most countries admit. Double that number at least.

Or more depending on the country. For examle russia. It claims to have 215,438 deaths from covid to date.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus/country/russia

 

But excess deaths tell a different story. Just to clear, excess deaths are computed on the basis of what statisticians or actuaries predict would have been the case had there not been covid at all.

So that's well over 500,000 deaths right there.. Actually even more than the lower grah show since it stos at the end of Setember whereas the confirmed death run until Oct 13. Anyway that overage amounts to about 2.5 times the claimed number.

 

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cumulative-excess-deaths-covid?country=~RUS

 

[wadman]

On 9/17/2021 at 2:06 AM, Hatch said:

Statistically speaking, the kid is talking the truth.

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-89615-4

It's even less than that. Most studies put the percentage of covid deaths in children at 0.2% or less. In the US, it's less than 0.1 %. With the covid vaccines, it seems that for short to medium term, they are quite safe. For the long term, nobody knows of course as these vaccines have only been administered for a year or so. If I had a kid, I wouldn't vaccinate him/her. 

 

[KhunLA]

Take the kid out for ice cream for being an intelligent free thinker.

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

You are confused, I never said that vaccinations cannot not be mandated. The left is doing just that, yes? 

Vaccines can be mandated. It's happening right now. Please, don't try to blame the "Left " for this. That's just ridiculous.

[Jeffr2]

6 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So I assume it safe to say both of you met with your doctors and carefully went over the pros and cons of being vaccinated before taking your position?

 

Too funny

For the vast majority of us, no need to meet with our doctors before getting the vaccine. The pros vastly outweigh the cons. No comparison.

[Jeffr2]

18 hours ago, l4ml4m said:

 

me too, hard to find the real news !

 

People who recovered and do not have any consequence without being vaccinated are not important for the provax propaganda...

 

 

But are fodder for the anti vaxxers and covid deniers. Like you.

 

Real news is easy to find. Sadly, some aren't interested in this.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Vaccines can be mandated. It's happening right now. 

That's what I said, yes? 

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

Please, don't try to blame the "Left " for this. That's just ridiculous.

I don't blame the left for the vaccines, I do blame the left for the mandates.

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

For the vast majority of us, no need to meet with our doctors before getting the vaccine. The pros vastly outweigh the cons. No comparison.

What I said was: "So I assume it safe to say both of you met with your doctors and carefully went over the pros and cons of being vaccinated before taking your position?" 

 

You weren't one of the two I was responding to. 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2021 by Yellowtail
ww

[Yellowtail]

1 hour ago, Jeffr2 said:

But are fodder for the anti vaxxers and covid deniers. Like you.

 

Real news is easy to find. Sadly, some aren't interested in this.

I assume you define "anti vaxxers" as anyone that opposes the mandates and "covid deniers" as anyone that does not think it comparable to small pox, yes? 

[ozimoron]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The CDC seems to think I don't pose a threat to others either.

As they admit the vaccination does not stop anyone catching or transmitting the disease.

For the millionth time, the vaccines are HIGHLY effective in reducing bot infection and transmission of the virus. Can you either admit that's true or provide evidence that it isn't? I would except that I have done so on several occasions already in this thread.

[placeholder]

5 hours ago, wadman said:

It's even less than that. Most studies put the percentage of covid deaths in children at 0.2% or less. In the US, it's less than 0.1 %. With the covid vaccines, it seems that for short to medium term, they are quite safe. For the long term, nobody knows of course as these vaccines have only been administered for a year or so. If I had a kid, I wouldn't vaccinate him/her. 

 

There's never been a case of a vaccine giving rise to a latent disease. Whereas that's not true of viral diseases, is it. So if it's somewhere in the not so distant or distant future you're concerned about, clearly it makes a long more sense to fear the long term consequences of not being vaccinated.

[placeholder]

6 hours ago, BritManToo said:

The CDC seems to think I don't pose a threat to others either.

As they admit the vaccination does not stop anyone catching or transmitting the disease.

Did you acquire that factoid from The Journal of Making Things Up?

[BritManToo]

37 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

For the millionth time, the vaccines are HIGHLY effective in reducing bot infection and transmission of the virus. Can you either admit that's true or provide evidence that it isn't? I would except that I have done so on several occasions already in this thread.

I'd like to know how those 12 vaccinated Thais at the Hua Hin restaurant caught their COVID.

Did they catch if from some 'super spreader'  not vaccinated?

Or did one of them catch it and infect everyone else?

Clearly the virus was easily transmitted in that case.

If the vaccine was highly effective in reducing transmission, why did so many of them catch it?

 

As far as I can see the evidence in this case, 12 fully vaccinated infected at one place of work, doesn't match the claims of reduced transmission.

 

[cdemundo]

11 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

So I assume it safe to say both of you met with your doctors and carefully went over the pros and cons of being vaccinated before taking your position?

 

Too funny

You think my doctor advised me not to get the vaccine?

Too pathetic.

[cdemundo]

10 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

Doubling down? Again, I never said the government could not mandate vaccines. What I said was, that "The US government does not compel everyone to be vaccinated for smallpox" And you have not pointed to anything that says differently. 

 

I may indeed be wrong, but I do not believe I am. Certainly a hundred year old court case  involving a few states doesn't convince me as (apparently) it does you.

 

 

 

"The US government does not compel everyone to be vaccinated for smallpox"

 

I wonder why not.

 

[ozimoron]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd like to know how those 12 vaccinated Thais at the Hua Hin restaurant caught their COVID.

Did they catch if from some 'super spreader'  not vaccinated?

Or did one of them catch it and infect everyone else?

Clearly the virus was easily transmitted in that case.

If the vaccine was highly effective in reducing transmission, why did so many of them catch it?

 

As far as I can see the evidence in this case, 12 fully vaccinated infected at one place of work, doesn't match the claims of reduced transmission.

 

Nobody said the vaccine was 100% effective but your assertion that it "did not stop" infection was straight out lying.

[placeholder]

11 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd like to know how those 12 vaccinated Thais at the Hua Hin restaurant caught their COVID.

Did they catch if from some 'super spreader'  not vaccinated?

Or did one of them catch it and infect everyone else?

Clearly the virus was easily transmitted in that case.

If the vaccine was highly effective in reducing transmission, why did so many of them catch it?

 

As far as I can see the evidence in this case, 12 fully vaccinated infected at one place of work, doesn't match the claims of reduced transmission.

 

What vaccine were they vaccinated with? How long ago were they vaccinated? And statistically speaking, typically you will find all sorts of apparent anomalies when the group being sampled is large enough. In other words, you're cherry-picking.

[wadman]

12 hours ago, placeholder said:

There's never been a case of a vaccine giving rise to a latent disease. Whereas that's not true of viral diseases, is it. So if it's somewhere in the not so distant or distant future you're concerned about, clearly it makes a long more sense to fear the long term consequences of not being vaccinated.

There are reasons why vaccines go through a lengthy approval process.  If Covid wasn't so contagious, with so many people dying, covid vaccines would never have been approved so quickly.  It would have taken years and years.

 

Now with Covid causing this many deaths, it makes sense to fast track the vaccines.  The reasoning being that whatever risks you are taking with fast tracking the vaccines is (easily) being outweighted by the benefits. 

 

This is true for adults.  The point of the OP and my point also is, does that still hold for children?  Most studies have shown that children suffer only about 0.2% of all covid deaths.  As I have said before, if I had a child, I wouldn't vaccinate him/her (not yet).