Allowance to the maid after death of the foreign employer

[geovalin]

Please move my message to the good forum if I picked up the wrong one.

 

My friend is nearly 97 years old and I guess he's closer from the end than from the beginning. We need to sort out some issue.

 

He gets the same maid since around 30 years.

Very devoted person. Not a single day off since my friend is bedridden (2 years).

She receives a decent salary.

 

When the unfortunate day will come and my friend will pass away (can be within 5 years or tomorrow), does his son have to give any allowance to the maid due the "end of contract" ? By the way, my friend and the maid never signed any contract.

 

By the way, my friend mentioned the maid in his will. She'll get 100 000 bahts.

 

As you are reading me, please allow a last question. This maid needs a small surgery (someone will help her at work during this time), does my friend need to pay any thing regarding the medical expenses of the employee ?

 

Thank you

 

[tonray]

Your friend is not 'legally' required to pay anything....however....he should IMHO provide a gratuity commensurate with her value to him during his time of need. And if he wanted to help out with her surgery...what better way to build up some "points" for when he approaches the Pearly Gates ?

[chuang]

Should be generous as she worked 2 years without off days .

[steve187]

my view leave more to the carer, she has earned it, give less to the son he expects it

[inThailand]

Of course he doesn't have to pay for her surgery. Up to him! 

 

I like the way he is taking care of her by adding her to his Will. Suggestion, give her a copy of the Will, so 1) she knows she's in it and 2) in case she encounters problems getting what he desires. 

[hotchilli]

2 hours ago, inThailand said:

Of course he doesn't have to pay for her surgery. Up to him! 

 

I like the way he is taking care of her by adding her to his Will. Suggestion, give her a copy of the Will, so 1) she knows she's in it and 2) in case she encounters problems getting what he desires. 

Yes, if she's been loyal to him as a maid for 30 years then I'd increase the payment due mentioned in his "Will",

If he so wishes he could donate something towards the surgery or cover the medication she will need, something along those lines.

The other thing I would suggest is that she is informed that she is in the Will and copies are held by trustworthy people.

[AlQaholic]

The Thai Labor protection act is clear, the maid, having worked for the employer for more than 10 years, is entitled to a severance payment of her current salary for 400 days. I does not matter if there is a written agreement or not, if she has worked for an employer, that constitutes an agreement. In a dispute, she must of course be able to prove that she has worked for the employer. And then of course we come to the question of tax payments, which should have been done by the employer.

https://www.ilo.org/dyn/natlex/docs/ELECTRONIC/49727/125954/F-1924487677/THA49727 Eng.pdf

(The original act was changed in 2017 and in 2019, google it).

Additionally, If the maid is over 60 years (since 2019, now officially the retirement age in Thailand) she can retire any time she wants and is entitled to the 400 days severance payment upon retirement. 

Edited August 13, 2021 by AlQaholic

[scorecard]

2 hours ago, inThailand said:

Of course he doesn't have to pay for her surgery. Up to him! 

 

I like the way he is taking care of her by adding her to his Will. Suggestion, give her a copy of the Will, so 1) she knows she's in it and 2) in case she encounters problems getting what he desires. 

"I like the way he is taking care of her by adding her to his Will."

 

Agree and I'm aware of many cases where local long-term caring, hard working staff have been mentioned in the foreigners will.

 

One example is a very wealthy foreigner from Europe, been in Thailand around 40 years. For about the last 25 years he's employed the same 3 young men to run his home, cook, do the shopping, clean, manage any house/car repairs needed, etc., manage his condo rental activities in Thailand. All 3 are now middle aged. All three have their own suite (large bedroom, bathroom, storeroom, carport) under the main roof of the farangs home.

 

He pays them well, all have been given (they own) their own mid-cost cars and the foreigner pays for all servicing etc., and replaces their cars about every 4 years. All 3 have been given funds to affect rebuild / big upgrade of their parents homes in Esan. They all get 10 days paid leave twice a year, plus 25,000Baht bonus to go home and see their parents twice a year. The farang is very balanced emotionally never shows anger or yells, always very pleasant, treats all 3 young men as friends. He's now 94 yo and his health is slowly going downhill. All three staff members have two or three times accompanied their boss to his original small home in Germany. 

 

None of the 3 staff members know that their boss is extremely wealthy. They are the equal benificaries of his entire estate (he owns numerous very expensive large office buildings in several cities in his home country in EU, all well maintained plus he has massive cash in banks in the EU, plus about 10 condos in Bkk and Pattaya.)

 

Two of the farangs close friends in Thailand are aware of the whole situation as is his local lawyer. A lawyer in Europe holds a will in his home country setting out his 3 beneficiaries (same details as the will in Thailand), and here's a set path laid out in his wills in Thailand and in Europe to execute his wishes.

[IvorBiggun2]

22 hours ago, tonray said:

he should IMHO provide a gratuity commensurate with her value to him during his time of need.

But he has already via 'She receives a decent salary'. Her choice

 

18 hours ago, chuang said:

Should be generous as she worked 2 years without off days .

But 'She receives a decent salary'. Her choice.

 

18 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

the maid, having worked for the employer for more than 10 years, is entitled to a severance payment of her current salary for 400 days.

Not if he dies penniless. I'm sure he's paying her over the minimum government wage.

[AlQaholic]

4 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

But he has already via 'She receives a decent salary'. Her choice

 

But 'She receives a decent salary'. Her choice.

 

Not if he dies penniless. I'm sure he's paying her over the minimum government wage.

I'm just stating what the law of Thailand says. The estate of the deceased is a legal entity in this context, meaning the estate has the same legal obligations as the deceased. Minimum government wages has nothing to do with it.

Edited August 13, 2021 by AlQaholic

[IvorBiggun2]

33 minutes ago, AlQaholic said:

if she has worked for an employer

I think that you are referring to a business/company where tax is paid and she gets a wage slip. Hence the 'government legal wage'.I could be wrong.

Edited August 13, 2021 by IvorBiggun2

[BTB1977]

100,000 translates to less than $3,000 used. Seems a little low for 30 years of service if she was full time 6 days a week.   But I don't know if she was full time the first 28. Or just came in 3 hours 2 times a week to tidy up. As for the surgery,  don't thais have government paid insurance.  My wife and her whole family does.  

[AlQaholic]

4 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

I think that you are referring to a business/company where tax is paid and she gets a wage slip. Hence the 'government legal wage'.I could be wrong.

The labor protection act do not distinguish between employers, either private entities or companies. The act is for the protection of laborers. If taxes has been paid or not, does not matter, that is a separate issue pertaining to tax evasions.

Edited August 13, 2021 by AlQaholic

[Scott Tracy]

2 hours ago, AlQaholic said:

The Thai Labor protection act is clear, the maid, having worked for the employer for more than 10 years, is entitled to a severance payment of her current salary for 400 days.

Interesting. The 'employer' dies. Who is liable for severance pay? Is it applicable when the 'employer' dies? Does the estate have to cough up? What happens if the estate has insufficient funds for the payment?

 

Oh, and the surgery is not covered under the Thai 30 baht national insurance? Medication also not covered?

Edited August 13, 2021 by Scott Tracy
Added last paragraph.

[wombat]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

None of the 3 staff members know that their boss is extremely wealthy.

at this point you lost me.

[Iron Tongue]

I also think 100k baht seems low.  This loyal employee seems more like family at this point and she probably won't be able to find another job at this stage of her life.  100k baht isn't much of a retirement.  If he can afford more, the final payment should be several times that.  It's not like he can take it with him.

[IvorBiggun2]

20 minutes ago, Iron Tongue said:

I also think 100k baht seems low. 

Thai law to termination pay.

 

Quote

 

Severance pays

Severance pay must be paid to the employee when he/she is dismissed without cause and is based on the duration of the employment:

 

Quote

 

LENGTH OF SERVICE	SEVERANCE PAY RATE
120 DAYS ~ < 1 YEAR	30 DAYS
1 YEAR ~ < 3 YEARS	90 DAYS
3 YEARS ~ < 6 YEARS	180 DAYS
6 YEARS ~ < 10 YEARS	240 DAYS
10 YEARS ~ < 20 YEARS	300 DAYS
> 20 YEARS	400 DAYS

 

https://franklegaltax.com/dismissal-of-employees-in-thailand/?utm_source=Mondaq&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=LinkedIn-integration

Edited August 13, 2021 by IvorBiggun2

[natway09]

It is somewhat within the decision of the employer as she is not working under the SS protection act nor will the labourDept get involved.

But 10 months severance pay sounds reasonable which is the highest the Labour Dept offers anyway.

Not knowing what salary she is on now I have no "starting point"

There is no tax liability on this payment

[LukKrueng]

A friend of mine had a caretaker for his father for about 8 years. In the last month or so the father was hospitalised and she was there with him to the last moment. 

She had a fine salary and good conditions from day one. When he passed she asked to stay at his place for another week or so and the son allowed it, of course. He then paid her 100k baht as gratitude for her long devoted service. 

[unblocktheplanet]

Nobody pays taxes for their domestic staff! But devoted service should be rewarded.

[blackcab]

The estate will be liable for 400 days pay plus another 30 days pay if 1 months notice is not given.

 

It does not matter if there was a written contract or not. After 30 years I am sure the maid would have enough witnesses to testify she worked for the employer.

[geisha]

If the gentleman can afford to, I think he should at least double that, and more if he is well off. Personally, I would be forever grateful and generous to anyone who helped someone in my family like that. The son is probably also quite old, and maybe not so well off. So only the giver can decide.

[Nojohndoe]

7 hours ago, wombat said:

at this point you lost me.

lol. Me too ! If an aged "employer" has the means to supply, maintain and replenish vehicles at own cost to domestic employees  at that extent alone I would bet the employees  have at least some idea of financial capacity.....

[Artisi]

7 hours ago, Iron Tongue said:

I also think 100k baht seems low.  This loyal employee seems more like family at this point and she probably won't be able to find another job at this stage of her life.  100k baht isn't much of a retirement.  If he can afford more, the final payment should be several times that.  It's not like he can take it with him.

I agree, extra 0 on the end (if he can afford it) would be more appropriate.  I would make the suggestion to him if you feel it is worth while, certainly sounds like she been a hard working honest asset to him over this period. 

[Liverpool Lou]

7 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Thai law to termination pay.

 

https://franklegaltax.com/dismissal-of-employees-in-thailand/?utm_source=Mondaq&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=LinkedIn-integration

In the circumstances of the OP, she would not be subject to "dismissal by the employer"!

[Liverpool Lou]

On 8/12/2021 at 4:43 PM, steve187 said:

my view leave more to the carer, she has earned it, give less to the son he expects it

"...she has earned it"

She hasn't been doing it out if the goodness of her heart, she been well paid for doing it!

[steven100]

On 8/12/2021 at 10:38 AM, geovalin said:

She'll get 100 000 bahts

I splattered my beer on my keyboard .......    she'll get a lousy 100,000 baht for putting up with grumpy for 30 years.

 

enough said,   I can only think of one thing,  and you don't wanna hear it ......   

[Artisi]

17 minutes ago, Liverpool Lou said:

"...she has earned it"

She hasn't been doing it out if the goodness of her heart, she been well paid for doing it!

Did you collect any retirement plan or pension plan after being being well paid for years?

[Ralf001]

8 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Thai law to termination pay.

 

https://franklegaltax.com/dismissal-of-employees-in-thailand/?utm_source=Mondaq&utm_medium=syndication&utm_campaign=LinkedIn-integration

If old matey goes toes up.... has she been terminated or just a victim of circumstance ?

 

 

Moot point though if the maid was not legally employed rather a "i will give you 5k a month" employee.

[impulse]

11 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

On 8/11/2021 at 10:49 PM, tonray said:

he should IMHO provide a gratuity commensurate with her value to him during his time of need.

But he has already via 'She receives a decent salary'. Her choice

By law, if she's an employee (she is), he should be paying taxes on her and paying into the Thai Social Security fund, which would cover her needed surgery.  The income taxes will probably amount to zero because of deductions at a low salary level, but the SS payments would have gone a long way to covering her health needs.

 

In practice, I don't know how her surgery would be handled, but I suspect the Labor Department will be sure she gets the prescribed severance pay if she chooses to contact them.