Seeking opinion on what brand of budget computer is best avoided new or refurbished.

[Nojohndoe]

Am looking to buy a low budget price laptop/notebook either new or refurbished. Looking at refurbished ones the prices seem very much the same as new HP or Fujitsu eg . Intended use is 14 year old for education and not gaming.

I know people have preferences and opinions so am seeking some degree of consensus.

Could not find a "Computers etc" category so hope where the topic is showing up is ok.

[Kwasaki]

Asus laptop is what I would buy again after having one for 12 years,  I still have dinosaur box desktop but never use it. 

[Swiss1960]

Never had problems with Dell and HP, but always with Lenovo

[flexomike]

25 minutes ago, Swiss1960 said:

Never had problems with Dell and HP, but always with Lenovo

going on seven years with my Lenovo laptop and still going strong

[it is what it is]

being no expert iv'e owned many brands, never had a problem with any of them, the only problems i've ever had are when microsoft wants to repalace the OS, never again. in my experience you get what you pay for, important things seems to be the processor - speed, and storage - small storage can soon get bunged up with software/apps/updates, and if you want to save photos/videos you'll need space - i like to have them on had as well as on the cloud.

[Kwasaki]

Many cheap s/h laptops up for sale I'm looking soon for one I not bother about upgrading for the lastest I just leave that to the tech guys. ????

[Mickeymaus]

I would be careful with old stuff. In my experience many things here deteriorate because of the heat and humidity even if you don't use them. I just had to replace the monitor (the screen got the so called vinegar syndrome - a chemical reaction that destroyed it) and two not much used hard drives at my PC died too. Also at my notebook I have the second keyboard already and one speaker does not work anymore. Especially the notebook was not used much. According to the hard drive data about one month runtime in several years. 

[tomazbodner]

For deciding between used or new one - many of even quite recent ones are incompatible with Windows 11, launching in exactly a month.

 

They need to have a hardware TPM 2.0 and Intel 8th generation (or newer) or AMD Zen 2nd generation (or newer) processor. The rest is pretty standard.

 

Now CPU... 8th Gen is actually only a couple of years old... About the same with AMD Zen. Examples of Gen4 Zen: AMD Ryzen7 4700 or Intel Gen8: Core i5 8365U. Second hand notebooks won't cost much less if at all than new ones. Only benefit might be that they are available, while getting new one is challenging with all chip shortages.

 

Second one however is a much bigger problem. TPM (Trusted Platform Module) 2.0 is a hardware chip on the motherboard that keeps all the certificates in secure storage. This is not something you would see in consumer models in the past, generally it was only part of business models, which are obviously somewhat more expensive than consumer models and usually come with the matte screen rather than glossy screen for consumer models.

 

There are 3 years or so left of support for Windows 10, so anything that doesn't support Windows 11 can stay on Windows 10 for a while longer, but what you don't know is when applications might force you to upgrade.

 

I don't know other brands well, but Dell has generally Latitude and Vostro models with TPM. Lenovo includes them in ThinkPad, and HP in EliteBook and ProBook series.

[Kwasaki]

Doom and and groom comath. ????

[DanWill]

1 hour ago, it is what it is said:

the only problems i've ever had are when microsoft wants to repalace the OS, never again.

Stick with MS DOS!

[Sudarut]

9 minutes ago, DanWill said:

Stick with MS DOS!

I recently upgraded from DOS to Windows 95

[Bruno123]

How much is "low budget price"?

 

But short answer: ThinkPad and fit SSD if necessary.

[Bruno123]

3 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

For deciding between used or new one - many of even quite recent ones are incompatible with Windows 11, launching in exactly a month.

 

They need to have a hardware TPM 2.0 and Intel 8th generation (or newer) or AMD Zen 2nd generation (or newer) processor. The rest is pretty standard.

 

Now CPU... 8th Gen is actually only a couple of years old... About the same with AMD Zen. Examples of Gen4 Zen: AMD Ryzen7 4700 or Intel Gen8: Core i5 8365U. Second hand notebooks won't cost much less if at all than new ones. Only benefit might be that they are available, while getting new one is challenging with all chip shortages.

 

Second one however is a much bigger problem. TPM (Trusted Platform Module) 2.0 is a hardware chip on the motherboard that keeps all the certificates in secure storage. This is not something you would see in consumer models in the past, generally it was only part of business models, which are obviously somewhat more expensive than consumer models and usually come with the matte screen rather than glossy screen for consumer models.

 

There are 3 years or so left of support for Windows 10, so anything that doesn't support Windows 11 can stay on Windows 10 for a while longer, but what you don't know is when applications might force you to upgrade.

 

I don't know other brands well, but Dell has generally Latitude and Vostro models with TPM. Lenovo includes them in ThinkPad, and HP in EliteBook and ProBook series.

You are overstating the case somewhat. You'll find that in fact it will install on much older devices and you can bypass the TPM 2.0 requirement.

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

for me, ASUS is the best and HP is the worst

[tomazbodner]

11 minutes ago, Bruno123 said:

You are overstating the case somewhat. You'll find that in fact it will install on much older devices and you can bypass the TPM 2.0 requirement.

Right now, unreleased version, yes. But official version will undo registry changes and enforce TPM on physical computers, only allow to run without it on VM. Actually even insiders whose hardware isn't marked as Win 11 compatible are being kicked out from Win 11 program until they upgrade hardware.

 

You're free to take risk, though. It is your money, after all.

[OneMoreFarang]

How about a desktop PC? If that is a option the get one. It's a lot easier and cheaper to upgrade and repair them.

 

And for any brand name computer: Look at the support page of that model at the manufacturer. Does it exist? Does it have downloads i.e. from BIOS updates and recent drivers?

Some companies have great support pages with the latest drivers even for computers which are years old. 

If you want to keep the notebook for some time the make sure you buy it with at least 8 to 16 GB RAM and make sure you can upgrade it to at least 32GB.

 

My favorites are Lenovo ThinkPads. There was a time when all of them were good. Now some have limited (RAM) upgrade options. Better check the exact model before you buy. 

[shdmn]

Computers are completely commoditized.  There is not really such a thing as brand anymore and not much support either.  They all use the same parts and drivers from the same 3rd party manufacturers.  Some of them install their own bloatware apps but it's all garbage and usually the first thing I uninstall.

 

Having said that, as far as laptops I always buy Acer.  I am on my 3rd one now and haven't had any problems with any of them.  I know some people who have Acer desktops and they seem happy with them.

[bunnydrops]

As for laptops I would go with Asus or Acer. I have 3 old ones under my desk right now, Never had a problem with them except the battery went dead on one. Back in the day I used to build my own decktops, even then I tended to use Asus motherboards. Although I have had a couple of HPs decktops with little problems, I have found that I have had lots of problems with other hardware from them.

[bendejo]

Currently have an Asus, since 2014.  Never had a laptop last this long before, they usually go sideways at around 3 years.  Full disclosure: I haven't moved it around very much, the others mentioned below got a lot of road time.

 

HP used to make solid laptops, and did cost more than the others (no problem if the company is paying for it :). 

Had to deal with Compaq in the 1990s (the employer's choice) and hated them, always up against something proprietary, Then Compaq bought HP's PC division, and I expected them to keep HP's sterling reputation.   BZZZZZT!  Bought a HP/Compaq laptop and when it died I was glad to replace it.

Probably the goofiest experience was with a Fujitsu.  Sometimes it wouldn't boot.  Between the tropical heat and air con rooms condensation would build up on the CPU, I mean I'd take off the back (bottom) and the CPU would be wet!  Can't count how many times I had to open it up and let the chip dry out.  Eventually the USB bus fried itself and I sold the thing for parts at Panthip, I think I got 300b for it.

Had a Sony Vaio, it was probably the only one I traded off because it became antiquated.  But it ran ok for what it was at the time.  BTW, I learned in the 1990s that Sony had terrible (TERRIBLE!) customer service for consumer gadgets, maybe that's changed, dunno.

Had a Toshiba.  After about three years (to the month!) something between the screen and the on-board graphics card went bad.  Did a little web searching when it happened and found out this was a known flaw with that model.  Not known by me when I bought it, unfortunately.  Turned out the HDMI to an external monitor worked.  Coincidentally, had a Toshiba television in the 1990s that died within a month of the three-year warranty running out: funny that.

 

I don't keep up with these things until I need to buy one, so can't recommend currently.  I'm curious about MS entering this market -- before this their only hardware was mouses and track balls etc, but they were OEM'd from Logitech.

 

 

[vinny41]

if you think you going to need to replace the battery at some point of upgrade memory or hard disk its worth checking out which models are easy to upgrade and which are very diffcult

Some laptops required a complete laptop disassembly including removal of motherboard to upgrade the memory

 

Example 

Upgrading The Un-Upgradeable? Asus X550 Laptop Experiment!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZu7s1PcggM

 

Dell Inspiron 15 7000 RAM UPGRADE / Replace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PgWraTPUSA

 

[fangless]

13 hours ago, DanWill said:

Stick with MS DOS!

Or an abacus. 

[Henryford]

Laptops are relatively cheap here i would never buy a refurbished one. Always had great service from Acers so keep with them, or maybe try Asus. My one Lenovo was a complete dud so would never buy another.

[ignis]

My year 1999 Sony  packed up at 19 years old... never a problem until it died

 

The Acer still with XP is 16 years old and now has a blue screen of death [guess needs a new hard drive ? but is it worth it ?] the only thing wrong is the CD drive has a mind of it own for past 2 years + the battery has gone..

[Bruno123]

16 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Right now, unreleased version, yes. But official version will undo registry changes and enforce TPM on physical computers, only allow to run without it on VM. Actually even insiders whose hardware isn't marked as Win 11 compatible are being kicked out from Win 11 program until they upgrade hardware.

 

You're free to take risk, though. It is your money, after all.

You mention Ryzen 2nd Gen as a minimum entry level and then go on to give examples of Ryzen 4th Gen...

 

Regardless of what you state; it will be easy to install Windows 11 on devices that don't meet the official requirement.

 

[Kwasaki]

6 hours ago, Henryford said:

Laptops are relatively cheap here i would never buy a refurbished one. Always had great service from Acers so keep with them, or maybe try Asus. My one Lenovo was a complete dud so would never buy another.

I'm buying another S/H Asus for downstairs TV access internet. 

 

Bought a new Asus 12 years ago or so advised by a computer nerd, the only thing I've had to buy recently is a charger, 300 baht. 

[Nojohndoe]

21 hours ago, Mickeymaus said:

I would be careful with old stuff. In my experience many things here deteriorate because of the heat and humidity even if you don't use them. I just had to replace the monitor (the screen got the so called vinegar syndrome - a chemical reaction that destroyed it) and two not much used hard drives at my PC died too. Also at my notebook I have the second keyboard already and one speaker does not work anymore. Especially the notebook was not used much. According to the hard drive data about one month runtime in several years. 

I had a very old Toshiba have a screen meltdown like that while in storage ! Very strange I thought.

[tomazbodner]

1 hour ago, Bruno123 said:

You mention Ryzen 2nd Gen as a minimum entry level and then go on to give examples of Ryzen 4th Gen...

 

Regardless of what you state; it will be easy to install Windows 11 on devices that don't meet the official requirement.

 

That Ryzen example or Intel example was to see 4th gen, number starts with 4... 8th gen, the number starts with 8...  Not that 4000 series Ryzen is the lowest required to run Win 11.

 

Now I wonder where you got RTM version of Windows 11 to make your second statement. I thought that was only for very select audience.

[Bruno123]

7 minutes ago, tomazbodner said:

That Ryzen example or Intel example was to see 4th gen, number starts with 4... 8th gen, the number starts with 8...  Not that 4000 series Ryzen is the lowest required to run Win 11.

 

Now I wonder where you got RTM version of Windows 11 to make your second statement. I thought that was only for very select audience.

 

 

I have no idea as to what you have tried to explain regarding 4th Gen.

 

My second statement is based on the fact that it is easy to bypass the installation restrictions. It's easy now and the final release will be no different.

[Tanomazu]

HP Laptops have a bit of a reputation to be sub-par build quality wise. Samsung, Acer, Asus, Msi, Alienware, LG Gram, Aero all fine.

 

The secret is to buy the highest spec Laptop you can afford. I bought a Core i7 Samsung laptop in 2011 and it's working like on the 1st day 10 years later. Though I did once have to apply thermal paste, which degrades after 4 or 5 years. If your laptop switches off due to overheating it's not a dirty fan, it's degraded thermal paste that has to be re-applied.

 

I also have a newer Asus which is great. If I have to eventually replace the Samsung I'll go with the Asus Rog Zephyros Duo with the top spec. That should last another 10 years at least.

 

If I could buy refurbished I would, nothing wrong with it.

 

 

[Bruno123]

17 minutes ago, Tanomazu said:

HP Laptops have a bit of a reputation to be sub-par build quality wise. Samsung, Acer, Asus, Msi, Alienware, LG Gram, Aero all fine.

 

The secret is to buy the highest spec Laptop you can afford. I bought a Core i7 Samsung laptop in 2011 and it's working like on the 1st day 10 years later. Though I did once have to apply thermal paste, which degrades after 4 or 5 years. If your laptop switches off due to overheating it's not a dirty fan, it's degraded thermal paste that has to be re-applied.

 

I also have a newer Asus which is great. If I have to eventually replace the Samsung I'll go with the Asus Rog Zephyros Duo with the top spec. That should last another 10 years at least.

 

If I could buy refurbished I would, nothing wrong with it.

 

 

Quote

The secret is to buy the highest spec Laptop you can afford.

 

Nope. I am still using a budget laptop, fourteen years later. Budget laptops purchased in 2007, 2008 & 2010 still working. 

The secret is to not buy crud in the first place; no need to purchase top of the range.