What about us? Furious retirees/expats in Thailand slam proposals to attract wealthy foreigners

[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Thailand may define your status, but it doesnt get to define words in the English language. Oxford languages definitely disagrees with with the Thai government:

"a person who comes to live permanently in a foreign country"

https://www.google.com/search?q=immigrant&oq=immigrant&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i59j69i65l3.1890j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

And, for once, Cambridge agrees!

"a person who has come to a different country in order to live there permanently"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/immigrant

 

In other words, it's about intent.

 

They should deport you then since you are not applying for your current visa with the correct intent.

 

Now that the humour is out of way,  English is not the law, and the law defines what your status is here... not the English dictionary...

Edited September 18, 2021 by bkkcanuck8

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

They should deport you then since you are not applying for your current visa with the correct intent. 

I didn't see on any of the forms a question about intent. 

[bkkcanuck8]

4 minutes ago, placeholder said:

I didn't see on any of the forms a question about intent. 

You are applying for a non-immigrant visa... and you have intent of immigration... wrong visa (so it should be voided).  If you enter on a tourist visa, and they find your intent is to work... they will void that visa (even if you have not worked illegally yet).  BTW, Thai laws are written in Thai not English...

Edited September 18, 2021 by bkkcanuck8

[placeholder]

13 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

If you overstay, you are classed as an illegal ALIEN.  They also assume you are illegally trying to stay here permanently.

Same same.

 

Illegal alien/immigrant definition is - a foreign person who is living in a country without having official permission to live there. 

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/illegal alien%2Fimmigrant

 

Not that I'm claiming to throw any shade on the world-renowned level of expertise in English enjoyed by functionaries of the Thai Dept. of Immigration. Or on yourself, for that matter.

[placeholder]

10 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You are applying for a non-immigrant visa... and you have intent of immigration... wrong visa (so it should be voided).  If you enter on a tourist visa, and they find your intent is to work... they will void that visa (even if you have not worked illegally yet).  BTW, Thai laws are written in Thai not English...

Even if what you're saying is true about intent to immigrate (which is dubious) vs. intent to work, it has nothing to do with the definition of immigration, legal or otherwise. What don't you understand about the fact that the Thai govt isn't nearly so widely respected as an authority on English as you seem to believe.

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You are applying for a non-immigrant visa... and you have intent of immigration... wrong visa (so it should be voided).  If you enter on a tourist visa, and they find your intent is to work... they will void that visa (even if you have not worked illegally yet).  BTW, Thai laws are written in Thai not English...

What strikes me as particularly ridiculous about your allegation that "intent of immigration" is a crime is that it is in complete contradiction to facts on the ground. Plenty of non-citizens in Thailand have marriage visas, have children, own a condo,or in certain cases, a house, and have lived here for decades. If that's not strong evidence of intent to live in Thailand permanently, what is? Are those people being kicked out of the country?

[bkkcanuck8]

9 minutes ago, placeholder said:

What strikes me as particularly ridiculous about your allegation that "intent of immigration" is a crime is that it is in complete contradiction to facts on the ground. Plenty of non-citizens in Thailand have marriage visas, have children, own a condo,or in certain cases, a house, and have lived here for decades. If that's not strong evidence of intent to live in Thailand permanently, what is? Are those people being kicked out of the country?

I said nothing about criminal activity, in fact most immigration infractions such as overstaying your visa - ARE NOT CRIMES (something that many on here constantly forget). What you and many fail to understand is that you have no rights to reside here and if immigration deems that you are not being honest about your intent, they can refuse to approve/extend visas or even refuse you entry.  If you were caught at a legal rally in Bangkok protesting the government, they would have no problem deporting you... you did not violate the law, you did not violate the freedoms granted by the constitution.... but since you have no right to reside here... you can be deported.

Edited September 18, 2021 by bkkcanuck8

[metisdead]

Some offensive posts and the replies have been removed. 

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The thing is that there is no permanency to you living here.  You might be lucky enough to die here, but on any given renewal of your temporary non-immigrant visa -- Thailand could refuse you an extension... you have no legal right to stay here longer than the length of the visa.   If you want the legal right to permanently live here... you have to apply and be approved for 'permanent reisdent' status.

Well yeah, that's what I said we are on a non immigrant visa and have no rights. You're the second person to tell me what I basically wrote!

[placeholder]

29 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I said nothing about criminal activity, in fact most immigration infractions such as overstaying your visa - ARE NOT CRIMES (something that many on here constantly forget). What you and many fail to understand is that you have no rights to reside here and if immigration deems that you are not being honest about your intent, they can refuse to approve/extend visas or even refuse you entry.  If you were caught at a legal rally in Bangkok protesting the government, they would have no problem deporting you... you did not violate the law, you did not violate the freedoms granted by the constitution.... but since you have no right to reside here... you can be deported.

And as I've pointed out, if you invoke "intent", then the evidence is clear that people who have wives and children,  own homes, and have lived in Thailand for decades  clearly have intent to live out their lives in thailand. What does the possibility that they can be evicted if the Thai govt. so chooses have to do with the question of intent?

[Mr Meeseeks]

2 hours ago, Neeranam said:

If you are on overstay, you are classed as an illegal immigrant, not an illegal non-immigrant. 

You are classified as an 'Alien', not an illegal immigrant. Indeed that term is not often used in Thai immigration terminology, if at all.

[bkkcanuck8]

7 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And as I've pointed out, if you invoke "intent", then the evidence is clear that people who have wives and children,  own homes, and have lived in Thailand for decades  clearly have intent to live out their lives in thailand. What does the possibility that they can be evicted if the Thai govt. so chooses have to do with the question of intent?

True, there intent may be to live out their lives, but many here have also been saying they are an immigrant because 'they feel' like it and your feelings and your intent has no weight under Thai law that I know of... you are temporary and have to meet the requirements on an annual basis to get another temporary extension to a temporary visa.  At any time the requirements may change and you have no option but to leave the country because you were always temporary.  A Non-Immigrant, regardless of what you intend, is not much different than a tourist visa (with an annual length rather than a 3 month length), both temporary, both you have to prove to a certain extent that you can live here without working because it is effectively the same.

[Artisi]

2 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

True, there intent may be to live out their lives, but many here have also been saying they are an immigrant because 'they feel' like it and your feelings and your intent has no weight under Thai law that I know of... you are temporary and have to meet the requirements on an annual basis to get another temporary extension to a temporary visa.  At any time the requirements may change and you have no option but to leave the country because you were always temporary.  A Non-Immigrant, regardless of what you intend, is not much different than a tourist visa (with an annual length rather than a 3 month length), both temporary, both you have to prove to a certain extent that you can live here without working because it is effectively the same.

Correct, permission to stay - temporarily, that can be provoked at anytime for any reason if and when Imm. feel like it. 

[Artisi]

58 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I said nothing about criminal activity, in fact most immigration infractions such as overstaying your visa - ARE NOT CRIMES (something that many on here constantly forget). What you and many fail to understand is that you have no rights to reside here and if immigration deems that you are not being honest about your intent, they can refuse to approve/extend visas or even refuse you entry.  If you were caught at a legal rally in Bangkok protesting the government, they would have no problem deporting you... you did not violate the law, you did not violate the freedoms granted by the constitution.... but since you have no right to reside here... you can be deported.

I would think that attending a legal rally would be a bit of a grey area, attending an illegal rally would certainly warrant deportation, especially recently being advised as such. 

[placeholder]

39 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

True, there intent may be to live out their lives, but many here have also been saying they are an immigrant because 'they feel' like it and your feelings and your intent has no weight under Thai law that I know of... you are temporary and have to meet the requirements on an annual basis to get another temporary extension to a temporary visa.  At any time the requirements may change and you have no option but to leave the country because you were always temporary.  A Non-Immigrant, regardless of what you intend, is not much different than a tourist visa (with an annual length rather than a 3 month length), both temporary, both you have to prove to a certain extent that you can live here without working because it is effectively the same.

They're not saying they're immigrants because they feel like it, they say they're immigrants because they intend to stay. 

[Thunglom]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The Thai government disagrees.

Yes- I've explained that - I think you really just need to admit that in the big picture you areas immigrant. Get over it.

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Thunglom said:

Yes- I've explained that - I think you really just need to admit that in the big picture you areas immigrant. Get over it.

Incorrect.

Retired expats in Thailand that identify as immigrants are delusional.

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 9/15/2021 at 11:35 AM, spidermike007 said:

This whole thing leaves a bitter, sour, nasty, foul taste in one's mouth, and the stench can be smelled for kilometers. Thailand is moving backwards on so many levels,

From Beijing's point of view Thailand is falling nicely in line and moving forward as per the master plan.

Hight speed train and online commerce is just the first part in the takeover. More to come.

We are redundant in this new world order.

[placeholder]

13 hours ago, Cherrytreeview said:

Having read a number of your pompous posts, you seem to have a big chip on your shoulder regarding older expats and the UK.

I wonder is this because you have been living on your Thai teachers salary and realised you haven't accumulated enough wealth for a comfortable old age.

Unlike a lot of the guys you attempt to mock.

Many who have a UK state pension, work pension and income from other property/investments.

I think your assumption about what you will receive as a UK state pension is incorrect.

https://www.gov.uk/new-state-pension/how-its-calculated

Basically, you need 10 qualifying years of NI contributions to get anything.

In case you weren't aware, the UK state pension is frozen for UK expats in Thailand. Not a great result for anyone.

I have spent a very pleasant spring and summer in the UK and watched Thailand's monsoon season floods with amusement.

When it suits me, i intend to return to Thailand and split the year between their and the UK.

It's wonderful to have options.

You criticize Neeranam for having a chip on his shoulder and yet you "have spent a very pleasant spring and summer in the UK and watched Thailand's monsoon season floods with amusement"? Clearly yours is a case of the soot calling the kettle black.

Edited September 18, 2021 by placeholder

[placeholder]

12 hours ago, Old Croc said:

Western financial decline and Thailands currency strength and rising prices.

Attitude of Sino-centric Thailand despot government.

Given that for the 2 years preceding the onset of Covid, the Dollar was lower in relation to the baht than it is now, your predictions seem somewhat dubious.

As for the attitude of the Thai govt, you think Western tourists care about stuff like that? A common mistake that those who hold strong views on the Thai govt is to believe that this is a matter of concern to the overwhelming majority of prospective tourists.

[Neeranam]

13 hours ago, Artisi said:

Correct, permission to stay - temporarily, that can be provoked at anytime for any reason if and when Imm. feel like it. 

True but in reality, it doesn't happen. 

 

How many on yearly visas do you know who have been refused an extension? If you are married and have kids here, you can't be kicked out of the country unless you commit a criminal offense, this is in the Constitution. 

 

 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Neeranam

[Artisi]

16 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

True but in reality, it doesn't happen. 

 

How many on yearly visas do you know who have been refused an extension? If you are married and have kids here, you can't be kicked out of the country unless you commit a criminal offense, this is in the Constitution. 

 

 

I was simply stating the fact, reality doesn't apply too much in Thailand, as you and I are well aware. 

[Cherrytreeview]

5 hours ago, placeholder said:

You criticize Neeranam for having a chip on his shoulder and yet you "have spent a very pleasant spring and summer in the UK and watched Thailand's monsoon season floods with amusement"? Clearly yours is a case of the soot calling the kettle black.

I am merely pointing out that his constant narrative of Thailand perfect, weather etc, UK bad is highly flawed.

I hope you noted that he intends to spend part of the year in Scotland, yet only a few days ago basically said "why would anyone live in the UK.'

I call that a hypocrite.

 

 

[Kadilo]

2 minutes ago, Cherrytreeview said:

I am merely pointing out that his constant narrative of Thailand perfect, weather etc, UK bad is highly flawed.

I hope you noted that he intends to spend part of the year in Scotland, yet only a few days ago basically said "why would anyone live in the UK.'

I call that a hypocrite.

 

 

 Maybe because living is not the same as visiting 

Edited September 19, 2021 by Kadilo

[Rimmer]

A personal attack has been removed

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

From Beijing's point of view Thailand is falling nicely in line and moving forward as per the master plan.

Hight speed train and online commerce is just the first part in the takeover. More to come.

We are redundant in this new world order.

Yep. And do not forget the Isthmus of Kra, the Panama Canal type project in the south, that the Chinese desperately want, and will likely build. And if they build it, they will likely do an American type takeover of the canal, from day one. They need easy passage to the Bay of Bengal, and points west. And it is part of their perfect recipe for Thai supplication. 

[thaibeachlovers]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Yep. And do not forget the Isthmus of Kra, the Panama Canal type project in the south, that the Chinese desperately want, and will likely build. And if they build it, they will likely do an American type takeover of the canal, from day one. They need easy passage to the Bay of Bengal, and points west. And it is part of their perfect recipe for Thai supplication. 

I fail to see why, as IMO it would be easier to just rail everything to a Burmese port.

Edited September 19, 2021 by thaibeachlovers

[Neeranam]

12 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect.

Retired expats in Thailand that identify as immigrants are delusional.

There are many words in Thai for immigrant. The Thai definition is different from other countries. There is confusion as some English speakers define it differently to Thai immigration.

Up until a few years ago, refugees and migrant workers were forced to get one of those pink non-Thai ID cards so as immigration could keep them under surveillance.

For some weird reason, some expats wanted one and now all can, although they don't have any practical use, especially if you already have a driver's license or yellow housebook. Most don't realize that they have been elevated to migrant worker status and Thais laugh at this ID card because they obviously are not Burmese/Cambodian labourers.  If you have one of these cards, ask a Thai what it says on the back - you need special permission in writing to leave the province you are registered in  Yet, down the expat bars, some are waving them around as if they were a Thai passport.  

 

[Eric Loh]

9 hours ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

From Beijing's point of view Thailand is falling nicely in line and moving forward as per the master plan.

Hight speed train and online commerce is just the first part in the takeover. More to come.

We are redundant in this new world order.

If the master plan is for more connectivity and trade resulting in the prosperity of the region, the new world order is certainly moving in the right direction. The world is better off with more trade than needless brinkmanship on political system. 

[John Drake]

Is anybody out there really going to become angry because immigration starts another program to bring in a higher income resident? Why? If it doesn't effect me negatively, why should I care? I guess I'll just keep doing things the way I have for the past twelve years. As long as that doesn't change, I'm satisfied. No need to envy anyone else or begrudge Thailand raking in whatever it can get from big spenders.