Electric vehicles of all kinds

[KhunLA]

15 minutes ago, guzzi850m2 said:

In the newspaper we are not allowed to quote, they write that The Finance Ministry stands ready to approve measures to promote the use of electric vehicles (EV), which is expected to significantly bring down the prices of imported EVs, said a source on the National Electric Vehicle Policy Committee.

 

This is supposedly taking place from 1 Jan 2022.

 

Interesting for sure.

We're not allowed to quote a newspaper ???? OK

 

They've been promoted EV for years, though not sure what they consider what that means, or what it means in the future.

 

How about removing the excise tax on EVs, that's about 100k off the price or most full size cars, and would be a good start.

 

Or the import tax, as the top seller in China is ฿150k, here, just shy of ฿400k.  A great little around the town car for those now using a scooter w/sidecart....IF it was affordable.

Edited October 28, 2021 by KhunLA

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, KhunLA said:

We're not allowed to quote a newspaper

???? OK

Yes, the Bangkok Post. It's part of the forum rules.

Quote

26) The Bangkok Post and Phuketwan do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on ASEANNOW.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post or Phuketwan publications will be deleted from the forum.

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by GroveHillWanderer

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, seedy said:

But it's only a glimmer. Electric vehicle sales - 121,900 this financial year - account for only 1.66% of India's 20 million automobile sales

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-58977080

As of 2020, there were over 0.9 million of new battery electric vehicles (BEV) sold in China.

China population - The current population of China is 1,446,660,472 as of Thursday, October 28, 2021

The current population of India is 1,397,902,013 as of Thursday, October 28, 2021

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/china-population/

 

EV Fanatics really need to get their craniums removed from their posteriors.

 

Awaiting the expected "sales are predicted, battery tech on the drawing board, expected to be ... and the crown jewels - Tesla predicts"

 

Seems more than one flew over the cuckoos nest

https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/

Wait times for new Teslas are as long as 10 months — unless you're willing to splurge for expensive add-ons

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-y-s-x-delivery-wait-times-months-2021-10

Edited October 28, 2021 by placeholder

[seedy]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/502208/tesla-quarterly-vehicle-deliveries/

Wait times for new Teslas are as long as 10 months — unless you're willing to splurge for expensive add-ons

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-3-y-s-x-delivery-wait-times-months-2021-10

I post about India and China - you reply with Tesla sales worldwide.

https://www.livemint.com/opinion/columns/tesla-is-unlikely-to-launch-its-vehicles-in-india-anytime-soon-11628094775966.html

Tesla is estimated to have sold 137,000 electric vehicles (EVs) in China in 2020

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1220651.shtml

 

Let me break this down for you ...

In 2021, the average salary in India is 31,900 INR (Indian Rupee) per month or 3,82,800 INR per annum. That is 428.49 USD per month, according to the exchange rates in July 2021.

https://biz30.timedoctor.com/average-salary-in-india/

The annual average wage of a typical Chinese employee is around 3,51,600 Yuan (USD 54,422). 

 

In both countries people are flocking to the cities due to no work or opportunities in the countryside.

From their salary they provide food, clothing and shelter for themselves, and send the balance home to their parents to support them and their siblings.

 

Do you really believe that the vast majority of people in these countries can afford any vehicle other than a bicycle ? Let alone an EV ? let alone a Tesla ?

 

Those that tout the Scent of Musk are rich and privileged.

 

So saying that the billions in those countries are a market is laughable - No, it is sad, and a reminder of how divorced from reality most people are in the world

[Bandersnatch]

Let's see how many people I can offend when I post this. BTW I am not from Oz but I think this is bloody funny

 

 

 

[placeholder]

53 minutes ago, seedy said:

I post about India and China - you reply with Tesla sales worldwide.

https://www.livemint.com/opinion/columns/tesla-is-unlikely-to-launch-its-vehicles-in-india-anytime-soon-11628094775966.html

Tesla is estimated to have sold 137,000 electric vehicles (EVs) in China in 2020

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1220651.shtml

 

Let me break this down for you ...

In 2021, the average salary in India is 31,900 INR (Indian Rupee) per month or 3,82,800 INR per annum. That is 428.49 USD per month, according to the exchange rates in July 2021.

https://biz30.timedoctor.com/average-salary-in-india/

The annual average wage of a typical Chinese employee is around 3,51,600 Yuan (USD 54,422). 

 

In both countries people are flocking to the cities due to no work or opportunities in the countryside.

From their salary they provide food, clothing and shelter for themselves, and send the balance home to their parents to support them and their siblings.

 

Do you really believe that the vast majority of people in these countries can afford any vehicle other than a bicycle ? Let alone an EV ? let alone a Tesla ?

 

Those that tout the Scent of Musk are rich and privileged.

 

So saying that the billions in those countries are a market is laughable - No, it is sad, and a reminder of how divorced from reality most people are in the world

You don't seem to understand that in countries with huge populations like India and China, even if only 10% of the people can afford to buy an auto, that's a lot of potential customers.

 

For the first 3 quarters of 2021 Tesla sold 204684 vehicles in China

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/14/china-ev-tesla-xpeng-nio-byd-are-best-selling-electric-cars-in-2021-.html

It's a pretty safe bet that Tesla will at least double its Chinese sales in 2021

 

In September alone, Tesla sold 52163 vehicles in China. That's well over a 3rd of what they sold for the entire previous year.

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-sold-56006-china-made-vehicles-september-cpca-2021-10-12/

 

As for pricing, are you suffering under the delusion that Tesla is the only EV manufacturer out there?

The biggest selling electric vehicle in China is The Hongguang Mini (SAIC-GM-Wuling). It had a starting price of $4162 and tops out at $5607 in 2020.

So, if a similarly priced auto were available in India who could afford it? 

"To be in the top 5 percent, your minimum wealth should be $45,909, while you require a minimum of $22,476 to be among the richest 10 percent of Indian adults."

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/earnings/moneycontrol-pro-weekender-where-are-you-on-indias-wealth-ladder-7215981.html

After discounting the 40% of non adult Indians, that still leaves 850 million. 10% of that would be 85 million people who could easily afford an EV were one available at the price of the Chinese vehicle. And this affordability calculation is a severe underestimate. In the US the average auto or pickup costs  about $37000 per year. Average household income is about $68,000, So the cost of a vehicle comes to over 50% of household income in the US. Whereas in India the price for a chinese vehicle could be less than 20% and tops out at about 25%.

 

And as for  your comment about the total number of people in the world who can afford an EV,, doesn't that apply to ICE vehicles as well? You are clearly afflicted with a severe case of doublethink.

 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, seedy said:

I post about India and China - you reply with Tesla sales worldwide.

https://www.livemint.com/opinion/columns/tesla-is-unlikely-to-launch-its-vehicles-in-india-anytime-soon-11628094775966.html

Tesla is estimated to have sold 137,000 electric vehicles (EVs) in China in 2020

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1220651.shtml

 

Let me break this down for you ...

In 2021, the average salary in India is 31,900 INR (Indian Rupee) per month or 3,82,800 INR per annum. That is 428.49 USD per month, according to the exchange rates in July 2021.

https://biz30.timedoctor.com/average-salary-in-india/

The annual average wage of a typical Chinese employee is around 3,51,600 Yuan (USD 54,422). 

 

In both countries people are flocking to the cities due to no work or opportunities in the countryside.

From their salary they provide food, clothing and shelter for themselves, and send the balance home to their parents to support them and their siblings.

 

Do you really believe that the vast majority of people in these countries can afford any vehicle other than a bicycle ? Let alone an EV ? let alone a Tesla ?

 

Those that tout the Scent of Musk are rich and privileged.

 

So saying that the billions in those countries are a market is laughable - No, it is sad, and a reminder of how divorced from reality most people are in the world

And by the way, guess what country has the most new auto sales?

If you didn't guess China, you got it wrong. And India is moving up

 

China Continues to be Largest Passenger Vehicle Market in the World in 2019, India on 5th Spot.

https://www.news18.com/news/auto/china-continues-to-be-largest-passenger-vehicle-market-in-the-world-in-2019-india-on-5th-spot-2584975.html

 

 

[KhunLA]

35 minutes ago, placeholder said:

You don't seem to understand ???? that in countries with huge populations like India and China, even if only 10% of the people can afford to buy an auto, that's a lot of potential customers.

 

For the first 3 quarters of 2021 Tesla sold 204684 vehicles in China

It's a pretty safe bet that Tesla will at least double its Chinese sales in 2021

 

 

The biggest selling electric vehicle in China is The Hongguang Mini (SAIC-GM-Wuling). It had a starting price of $4162 and tops out at $5607 in 2020. chinese vehicle could be less than 20% and tops out at about 25%.

 

And as for  your comment about the total number of people in the world who can afford an EV,, doesn't that apply to ICE vehicles as well? You are clearly afflicted with a severe case of doublethink.

 

All so true. along with Wuling, they sold 5 times as many cars as Tesla in China.  That's the car I made reference to that sells for around 150k baht in China, but almost 400k baht in Thailand.

 

That's sad, or many people would own that here instead of a scooter w/sidecar.

Edited October 29, 2021 by KhunLA

[farmerjo]

3 hours ago, Bandersnatch said:

Let's see how many people I can offend when I post this. BTW I am not from Oz but I think this is bloody funny

 

 

 

A few years a go there was a bloke called Bill Shorten who was going to change the world.

It didn't end well for him.

I've made my worth in the mining industry,it's no surprise that a lot of major companies are head office based in Green countries and the dirty work done elsewhere.

Also time must be taken to get it right as everyone still wants food on the table.

It's a big picture.

 

 

[LarrySR]

Toyota reveals its first battery EV has 280-mile range and a solar roof option. The first of seven fully electric vehicles the automaker said it would debut by 2025. 
https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEMkaDXHPucQuNZFbbcNO75oqGAgEKg8IACoHCAowwOjjAjDp3xsw_oySBw?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by LarrySR

[LarrySR]

Lucid Motors stock (LCID) soars +40% on Friday as their first deliveries are scheduled this weekend.

 

 

[farmerjo]

Ok i'm ready to buy an EV in Thailand,i walk into the showroom to be greeted by a salesman and a selection of shiny new vehicles.

What questions do i ask -

Battery range and charging times

Registration and insurance costs

24/7 roadside assistance - availability of flatbed trucks or is a normal tow truck suffice.

Service costs - is the car IP of manufacturer for life,can i use any qualified garage for work

Is the manual in English version,what hours the drivetrain parts should achieve

Will you trade on new models

Can i use non OEM parts

Will there be fee's for disposal of old parts.

At what age are regular pit inspections required for license

Anything else?

 

 

[placeholder]

14 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Ok i'm ready to buy an EV in Thailand,i walk into the showroom to be greeted by a salesman and a selection of shiny new vehicles.

What questions do i ask -

Battery range and charging times

Registration and insurance costs

24/7 roadside assistance - availability of flatbed trucks or is a normal tow truck suffice.

Service costs - is the car IP of manufacturer for life,can i use any qualified garage for work

Is the manual in English version,what hours the drivetrain parts should achieve

Will you trade on new models

Can i use non OEM parts

Will there be fee's for disposal of old parts.

At what age are regular pit inspections required for license

Anything else

Excellent questions!

[DavisH]

1 hour ago, farmerjo said:

Ok i'm ready to buy an EV in Thailand,i walk into the showroom to be greeted by a salesman and a selection of shiny new vehicles.

What questions do i ask -

Battery range and charging times

Registration and insurance costs

24/7 roadside assistance - availability of flatbed trucks or is a normal tow truck suffice.

Service costs - is the car IP of manufacturer for life,can i use any qualified garage for work

Is the manual in English version,what hours the drivetrain parts should achieve

Will you trade on new models

Can i use non OEM parts

Will there be fee's for disposal of old parts.

At what age are regular pit inspections required for license

Anything else?

 

 

Yes some good questions here. 

I think until EV's bcome widespread, you will likely be tied to that manufacturer. Does anyone beside a MG dealer work on MG's? Perhaps some owners can answer that. For their range, you would have to wait for real world information from owners. The goodcat (officially) gets with 400-500KM on a charge - some new reviews have been getting less than those number, but that is to be expected, as the cars are reviewed and driven at high speeds in different conditions. It would depend on your driving style. For the battery - I think it would be expensive to replace - I gues one could ask the replacemnt price at the dealer. Perhaps drive it then sell it before the battery runs out of warranty. 

Where would one get non-OEM parts for new imported EV cars? I think there will be body kits, maybe wheels and brakes you can get, eventually. I think the goodcat has some services like pickup the vehicle on a flatbed. 

My concern is the lack of safety data for the goodcat. No NCAP rating yet. 

[KhunLA]

41 minutes ago, DavisH said:

Does anyone beside a MG dealer work on MG's?

Would you want anyone besides MG to work on your MG EV.  I personally wouldn't, not until EVs are more mainstream.  I believe the MG EVs come with a long (8 yr) service free battery warranty.  By then things should be very mainstream.

[LarrySR]

Germany running electric trucks using overhead cables to run the motors and charge the batteries, cutting carbon emissions by 2/3.

 

[Bandersnatch]

Even on a cloudy rainy day like we had yesterday I was able to charge my EV from my excess solar production in the middle of the day. 

 

[farmerjo]

On 10/30/2021 at 11:47 AM, farmerjo said:

Ok i'm ready to buy an EV in Thailand,i walk into the showroom to be greeted by a salesman and a selection of shiny new vehicles.

What questions do i ask -

Battery range and charging times

Registration and insurance costs

24/7 roadside assistance - availability of flatbed trucks or is a normal tow truck suffice.

Service costs - is the car IP of manufacturer for life,can i use any qualified garage for work

Is the manual in English version,what hours the drivetrain parts should achieve

Will you trade on new models

Can i use non OEM parts

Will there be fee's for disposal of old parts.

At what age are regular pit inspections required for license

Anything else?

 

 

Something else that has been in the back of my mind.

Let's hope they stay on top of this.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/major-problem-evs-no-one-000000015.html

[Bandersnatch]

5 minutes ago, farmerjo said:

Let's hope they stay on top of this.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/major-problem-evs-no-one-000000015.html

My home charger cannot be hacked as it's not online. So I can always make my own fuel at home unlike ICE cars

 

 

 

 

[placeholder]

4 hours ago, farmerjo said:

Something else that has been in the back of my mind.

Let's hope they stay on top of this.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/major-problem-evs-no-one-000000015.html

Actually power systems have been vulnerable to hacks that have nothing at all to do with EVs.

 

America’s Electric Grid Has a Vulnerable Back Door—and Russia Walked Through It

https://www.wsj.com/articles/americas-electric-grid-has-a-vulnerable-back-doorand-russia-walked-through-it-11547137112

 

It’s not just elections: Russia hacked the US electric grid

And it may be just the first phase of a bigger attack.

https://www.vox.com/world/2018/3/28/17170612/russia-hacking-us-power-grid-nuclear-plants

[LarrySR]

Volvos commitment to go fully electric by 2030 begins with the 2022 Volvo Recharge. 
The C40 uses twin electric motors—one on each axle—for a total of 402 hp and a range of up to 255 miles. 

[LarrySR]

Honda unveils standardised swappable motorcycle batteries.

The largest motorcycle manufacturers jointly signed up to a global initiative to standardise motorcycle batteries for electric motorcycles.

Honda is proposing the batteries be powered by renewable energy, and with millions of units capable of being plugged back into the grid, Honda sees the system as a backup emergency battery that can be used for short periods in the event of an outage or peak demand use.
 

Edited November 6, 2021 by LarrySR

[KhunLA]

They got some catching up to do:

 

 

[kwilco]

Hacking is not ßufficient reason not to go electric.

ICE , fuel can be drained, they are frequently stolen, they too suffer from fuel shortages and they emit harmful chemicals diety into the air around them....but oeople still buy them.

[JAS21]

Yesterday I believe…

[seedy]

Another Tesla ... who wodda thunk !!! 555

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, JAS21 said:

Yesterday I believe…

 

46 minutes ago, seedy said:

Another Tesla ... who wodda thunk !!! 555

Since 2016 Tesla has sold almost 2 million vehicles. You gotta learn somehow to come to terms with numbers and probability.

[KhunLA]

ALL FALSE ... as 1 comment points out: "That’s definitely not an explosion. There are no burn marks or any melted parts. It literally looks like the tesla was cut in half by a strong force probably the mustang."

_{I've punctured Lipo (old fully charged) batteries just for the hell of it, and there would be extensive burn damage is the car battery exploded.}

_{Actually hit hard enough to split the car in half, and battery posed NO DANGER to anyone .... AMAZING.}

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by KhunLA

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

ALL FALSE ... as 1 comment points out: "That’s definitely not an explosion. There are no burn marks or any melted parts. It literally looks like the tesla was cut in half by a strong force probably the mustang."

_{I've punctured Lipo (old fully charged) batteries just for the hell of it, and there would be extensive burn damage is the car battery exploded.}

_{Actually hit hard enough to split the car in half, and battery posed NO DANGER to anyone .... AMAZING.}

 

 

 

I should have looked at the video before i commented.

[seedy]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

Since 2016 Tesla has sold almost 2 million vehicles. You gotta learn somehow to come to terms with numbers and probability.

Confirms the intelligence of 2 million people I guess 555

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/08/04/tesla-fire/

 

Be careful not to run into stationary objects too 555

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/16/business/tesla-autopilot-federal-safety-probe/index.html

 

Edited November 10, 2021 by seedy