Immigration Want 20k. Again

[Scouse123]

22 hours ago, Grayo46 said:

You are right. Naivety has cost me.

 

My sister-in-law lives in the neighbouring province (Saraburi) is there any law preventing me registering at her address and doing my visa there whilst really living at my current address? Having 2 addresses - as it were.

I would try that approach if I was you and register in the next province. I wouldn't announce two addresses to anybody to be fair. Just do it.

 

I certainly would not adopt any approach that involves confrontation with immigration and lawyers as they will simply ' close ranks ' remember, they aren't doing this only to you, but thousands of others.

 

Maybe, change this year and revert back to your present address next year.

 

Lawyers and agents work hand in glove with these people, the only thing you will get is a bill.

 

Remember, what you are thinking about doing is already being done by agents and Immigration. When you pay your ' fee ' sometimes they are using immigration offices that are friendly to such dealings in other provinces, so you get an extension from a different province from where you are actually residing.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Scouse123

[BritTim]

7 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

I agree with other posters. There is something you are not telling us about the first 20k fee you paid. Such a fee is either for using an agent or because in some way you couldn't comply (main reason for using an agent)  Such fees are usually paid to immigration in order for them to exercise the discretion they are permitted by the rules. Seems to me that you are asking for them to exercise such discretion again. These are fees not bribes! Guess you will have to pay the fee or fully comply.

They most certainly are bribes. However, they fall into the type of corruption that is tacitly accepted by senior officials above them.

[james1943]

I know that some immigration office toy pay for EVERYTHING even at least 100 baht for your 90 day check in. You should report them to the head office in Bangkok or move to another place where they are honest. the office i go to is very good. I tried giving them 100 baht and said this is for your lunch and i tried giving it to the officer with no one looking and the officer said thank you but we can not take money where there are no charge for the service. Pattaya is a very dishonest office and this i can say from doing business there. My friend who still live there says it is cheaper to pay a  visa company the 10,000 baht and they do everything for you than it is to do it yourself and pay even for the 90 check in. Good luck

[Scouse123]

OP,

 

If you had the 400K last year and simply changed your extension from an ed to a marriage, I don't know why you paid last year if it was all above board?

 

You could have given maybe 1000 or 2000 baht for the service if it had suited you. I once did that when they transferred my passport stamps over to a new passport. Otherwise, I just follow the law on extension procedures and never get involved with agents.

 

It sounds like, when I read the response from Ubonjoe, It appears you have done nothing underhand, simply changed extension from Ed to marriage, so if that's the case, there is no ' fee ' due and shouldn't be expected.

[Stevemercer]

Assuming you fully meet the requirements for a marriage extension then you could try an agent. It might be dealt with by another office and slip right through. Put in your application as early as you can in case there are problems.

 

The other option is to go in with your wife with your application. If the officer wants 20,000, your wife would offer 5,000 as a sign of good faith. Assuming your application is ok, I think the officer would accept the lesser amount. Reduce it to 3000 the next year and then 1000 in subsequent years.

[NancyL]

38 minutes ago, greenmonkey said:

It seems to me like the Official is just trying it on, you paid once, therefore a good chance you will pay again. If it was me I would politely tell the official that as you meet all the requirements with 400k in the bank and see no need to pay 20k again. Make sure you record any conversation. Insist on submitting your paperwork with the 1900 fee. And see what happens from there. You need to play a bit of hard ball. If he refuses, ask to see wwhoever is in charge. Basically, don't stand for any nonsense.

I think this is the most sensible approach.  

I use an agent in Chiang Mai.  Despite what others say, I do this for convenience, because I want to go in-and-out of the immigration office and not have to sit around the place for half a day and potentially be exposed to Covid.  I fully meet all requirements for my retirement extension.

 

With my most recent application, I had decided to switch from 65M baht/month to 800,000 baht in a Thai bank about four months before my extension was due.  All was in the same bank account, with one month overlap.  The agent said that CM Immigration might not accept this because the 800,000 hadn't been in the bank for the entire year, but they would for an addition 15,000 baht "special processing fee".  I said this was nonsense and to submit my application without the additional fee and if it was rejected I wanted to talk with an Immigration supervisor and see the written rule about this.  

 

My application was accepted without the "special processing fee"  and it was the usual in-and-out of immigration through a side door into the special room they use for handling visa agent customers.  Well worth the few thousand baht paid to the agent, so that I don't have to say anything or even look at them.  Nothing close to 15,000.

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

You didn't change anything, you are still on a non-ed visa, you just applied for an extension based on marriage.

So last year you paid 20k for the marriage extension, this year you want to do the same, so the IO expects the same 20k.

thats what this is about.

 

to the OP do you now have a non-o visa in your passport?

 

 

 

[youreavinalaff]

4 hours ago, YorkshireTyke said:

I doubt you have a valid visa in your passport, just an extension of stay stamp? If so that is why you cannot renew your visa legit as you don't have one. So you have to pay an agent every year until you get a valid visa in your passport.

Nobody seeking an extension of stay from immigration has a valid visa in their passport. They are stamped "used".

 

What people do have is a basically "visa status". For example; non O, tourist, Non Ed or visa exempt. The OP has already stated he was on NonEd. UbonJoe gas already stated it is possible to change reasons for stay from Ed to marriage

 

Nobody renews their visa.

 

You comment is therefore not valid.

Edited October 12, 2021 by youreavinalaff

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

to the OP do you now have a non-o visa in your passport?

The only way he could have a non-o visa would be if he left and re-entered the country with a non-o visa.

As said it is not possible to change non immigrant visa categories within the country.

The immigration order only states a non immigrant visa is needed the extension application based upon marriage.

Same about all extension applications. Not needed for a extension of tourist visa or visa exempt entry and few others that do not require any specific visa type.

 

 

[GeorgeCross]

7 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The only way he could have a non-o visa would be if he left and re-entered the country with a non-o visa.

As said it is not possible to change non immigrant visa categories within the country.

The immigration order only states a non immigrant visa is needed the extension application based upon marriage.

Same about all extension applications. Not needed for a extension of tourist visa or visa exempt entry and few others that do not require any specific visa type.

 

 

so in this case the extension based on marriage to the original non-ed was valid?

 

that would mean he paid the 20k bribe last year for the IO just to do his job.

oops.

 

 

[MarleyMarl]

Be thankful it is only 20k? I had to pay 37k last month to renew my visa and I meet all the requirements easily.

 

I learned my lesson the hard way when I didn't pay before, they messed me around went back and forth 3 or 4 times until my visa ran out and I had to go home to make a new one. Before covid for a few years I was traveling in and out every 3 months because I refused to pay, but with covid I had to cough up the money, it is really frustraiting.

Edited October 12, 2021 by MarleyMarl

[ubonjoe]

21 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

so in this case the extension based on marriage to the original non-ed was valid?

that would mean he paid the 20k bribe last year for the IO just to do his job.

oops.

As I wrote before the extension he did last year was legitimate.

He just got snagged by a officer wanting some money and used the visa issue as an excuse.

[YorkshireTyke]

36 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Nobody seeking an extension of stay from immigration has a valid visa in their passport. They are stamped "used".

 

What people do have is a basically "visa status". For example; non O, tourist, Non Ed or visa exempt. The OP has already stated he was on NonEd. UbonJoe gas already stated it is possible to change reasons for stay from Ed to marriage

 

Nobody renews their visa.

 

You comment is therefore not valid.

My 10 year old visa is not stamped used so your comment is 'invalid'. Your visa status is based on your visa which is extended by a 'permission to stay' every year.

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, YorkshireTyke said:

My 10 year old visa is not stamped used so your comment is 'invalid'. Your visa status is based on your visa which is extended by a 'permission to stay' every year.

You do not extend your visa. You extend your permission to stay.

 

If your ten year old visa is not stamped "used", it was missed.

 

Non O visas are only valid for 3 months. A multi entry for 1 year.

 

I'm sure UbonJoe can confirm my comment as "valid".

Edited October 12, 2021 by youreavinalaff

[YorkshireTyke]

8 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

You do not extend your visa. You extend your permission to stay.

 

If your ten year old visa is not stamped "used", it was missed.

 

Non O visas are only valid for 3 months. A multi entry for 1 year.

 

I'm sure UbonJoe can confirm my comment as "valid".

Not sure what your point is. I have a multi entry O and I already said I get a permission to stay every year based on that visa. I never said I extend my visa but a permission to stay based on my original visa.

[youreavinalaff]

1 minute ago, YorkshireTyke said:

Not sure what your point is. I have a multi entry O and I already said I get a permission to stay every year based on that visa. I never said I extend my visa but a permission to stay based on my original visa.

You said this "Your visa status is based on your visa which is extended by a 'permission to stay' every year."

 

You do not extend your visa with a permission to stay. You simply extend your permission to stay. If your Multy O is 10 years old, it is now invalid.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Non O visas are only valid for 3 months. A multi entry for 1 year.

Only a single entry non-o visa would be stamped used. A multiple entry non-o visa would only be stamped used if you used it just before it expires.

My single entry visa expired over 13 years ago and was stamped used. I have extend the 90 day permit to stay it allowed 14 times.

[IvorBiggun2]

23 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

The agent will still need to use the same immigration office.

Not true. Many people use the agent in Soi Post Office, Pataya but live in Buriram. Reason being that Pattaya is cheaper Buriram IO.

[youreavinalaff]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Only a single entry non-o visa would be stamped used. A multiple entry non-o visa would only be stamped used if you used it just before it expires.

My single entry visa expired over 13 years ago and was stamped used. I have extend the 90 day permit to stay it allowed 14 times.

Yes, good point. If you were to use the multi O only once or twice, and not up to the enter before date, it would likely not be stamped.

 

However, I was trying to show that visas become invalid at a certain time and it is the extension of the permission to stay that keeps you here and is extended.

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Not true. Many people use the agent in Soi Post Office, Pataya but live in Buriram. Reason being that Pattaya is cheaper Buriram IO.

The OP has the correct  paperwork. The use of an agent would be to try to get passed the IO who is insisting on a bribe.

 

Those that use agents in Pattaya and live in Buriram usually do so as they do not meet the requirements. Money changes hands to circumnavigate the need for correct documents. This is usually only done on extensions for retirement. Extensions done on the basis of marriage, as the OP has done, are more confusing as they need to be agreed at region HQ level. IOs will also often request a home visit. You cannot legally get an extension from Pattaya with an address in Buriram.

 

Thus, the use of an agent for marriage extensions would usually only be done if the expats was unfamiliar with requirements, had the correct paperwork but needed help. Therefore using their local immigration office.

Edited October 12, 2021 by youreavinalaff

[overherebc]

5 hours ago, youreavinalaff said:

Yes, good point. If you were to use the multi O only once or twice, and not up to the enter before date, it would likely not be stamped.

 

However, I was trying to show that visas become invalid at a certain time and it is the extension of the permission to stay that keeps you here and is extended.

Agree with you. You first need the 'visa' to apply for the 'extension of stay'.

1st is a visa

2nd is an extension of stay.

[DaveCW]

I wonder what the embassy would say and do for the OP. Its about time all the foreign embassies stood together to fight the IO corruption by defending their citizens using the IO's own rules (assuming they fulfil the published requirements) - Doing all this, both at the individual and higher levels needs to be done - They might be able to fit this between visits to hotels and having tea with tourist officials....

[khunpeer]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:59 PM, FritsSikkink said:

Not bluffing, got a lawyer as a friend and one in the family. Never needed them as i got my paperwork in order.

I am the same, every year of the 25+ years that I'm living here I have done my visa application myself. in the beginning some mistakes, later on easy-piecy!

in the past I changed from retirement-visa to married and since several years already changed into child-dependent-visa: always did paperwork myself and kept deposit in the bank!

immigration doesn't like that people do this themselves, they prefer agents as always there will be a cut for them as well...

I heard it before that I know too much, know the runnings, meaning they can't make money out of me...

ps: I also have a lawyer-friend, a real shark! used him for other occasions ????

Edited October 12, 2021 by khunpeer

[rickudon]

On 10/11/2021 at 7:11 AM, Grayo46 said:

Now, with my visa is up for renewal in November, immigration is asking for another 20k because I don't reach the required 40k/ month. I DO have 400k in the bank (for over 3 months) and have a valid Work Permit

Nobody seems to have picked up on this. IF the extension last year was on the basis of 40k per month income, and he didn't reach this level EVERY month, he failed the terms of his extension. If this is the case, he has little option but pay up. If the future extensions are on the basis of 400k in the bank, he should not have a problem next time. One reason why i went the 400k route, no panic if the exchange rate plunges and one month you do not have enough.

[Saraburi121]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:25 PM, Grayo46 said:

You are right. Naivety has cost me.

 

My sister-in-law lives in the neighbouring province (Saraburi) is there any law preventing me registering at her address and doing my visa there whilst really living at my current address? Having 2 addresses - as it were.

I would not recommend Saraburi Immigration.  It is not a friendly office unless you are doing a retirement extension with money in the bank.  I have done 4 Non-O married to Thai extensions and each one has been painful. Saraburi does not do 40K per month unless you have the embassy affidavit to accompany it which some embassies don't give out now even though there has been an amendment to the immigration order since the embassy policy change.   Highly recommend you stay away from Saraburi unless you want the same situation you are in. 

[Speedhump]

On 10/11/2021 at 1:38 PM, FritsSikkink said:

You tell them you will come with a lawyer and he can explain to him why he wants money.

The lawyer I used in a road accident case, recommended by a friend that's used him for years, tried to stitch me up, asking police chief to demand a huge fine which he would split with him. I didn't have a clue. On my next visit I was lucky to have a Thai with me who had a great relationship with the police guy as her husband did a lot of work for the station free, the cop told her what was happening. I don't trust lawyers here easily, but that also applies to a lot of western 'businessmen' here too. 

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, Speedhump said:

The lawyer I used in a road accident case, recommended by a friend that's used him for years, tried to stitch me up, asking police chief to demand a huge fine which he would split with him.

Not knocking you but I always thought road accidents/traffic offences came with fixed penalties.

[The Hammer2021]

On 10/11/2021 at 3:43 PM, Grayo46 said:

No agent was used.

Therein lies the problem.

[Speedhump]

3 hours ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Not knocking you but I always thought road accidents/traffic offences came with fixed penalties.

Seriously? Try knocking a motor cycle taxi driver off his bike so he gets internal bleeding. He was in the wrong lane and really speeding, my dash cam says so, but 'rich' farang in a small car are always wrong here (but not to a mid six figure sum damages). 

[ChaiyaTH]

They basically told the OP that he no longer needs 40K a month or 400K in the bank, so instead you can make returns on that capital now. 20K isn't that expensive either and the usual price, you should ask if that includes a multi entry lol as no agent is taking a cut already.

Edited October 15, 2021 by ChaiyaTH