SURVEY: Nov. opening, will it be a success, a good start or a failure?

[Rampant Rabbit]

asking only travellers be  vaccinated is the ONLY way most  will  come

[crazykopite]

11 hours ago, overherebc said:

I have a feeling that the 'openly obvious' dare I use the expresion sex oriented bars could be a thing of the past. Very likely the bars with the girls sitting outside may not be seen again. Will they survive with only the 'waitresses' inside and out of sight? I also reckon the pole dancing bars have gone for good. The underlying industry will still be there but in a different form. Can I say more behind closed doors?

Where would that leave places like Nana and Soi Cowboy?

Most of the bar girls or massage girls now use Tinder  today I had 34 likes that will keep me busy  ???????????? 

[shackleton]

Well they have committed themselves for opening up on the 1st November

As long as you have had the 2 courses of the Covid-19 injection quarantine is not required  

Plus alcohol will be allowed in December let's wait and see how many   Tourist arrivals  there are over the Christmas / New year period 

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, meechai said:

I think as long as they require insurance, COE, Covid tests and vaccines it will be a failure.

 

They should follow with other major countries & allow fully vaccinated entry with just a preflight test in their home country

 

Something has to take place for there to be a failure. One has to assume you think doing nothing amounts to success.

 

Tell us what major country allows foreign nationals to enter the country with just a vaccination certificate and pre flight test.

Better to compare apples to apples than oranges.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Something has to take place for there to be a failure. One has to assume you think doing nothing amounts to success.

 

Tell us what major country allows foreign nationals to enter the country with just a vaccination certificate and pre flight test.

Better to compare apples to apples than oranges.

Mexico.

No vaccination certificate or pre flight test needed either.

Don't you dare say Mexico isn't a major country.

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, overherebc said:

It's an odd situation.

Virtually everything closed and restaurants not able to sell you a bottle of wine with your meal and don't forget the curfew.

I have a problem to see what will be first. Open everything when there are no tourists or let all the tourists come first when everything is either closed or restricted. Who will open first most likely with the cost for the first two or three months at their expense?

I'm glad it's not me making the decisions on how to go about it.

Quite. Easing entry while restrictions are in place will keep the numbers down, probably seen as a more manageable arrangement than open floodgates.

I know people in the UK that are desperate to get over, the bars being closed is seen as a much better alternative to a second UK winter.

There is no right decision, only the least wrong, which will always be the worst in the eyes of this forum.

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Mexico.

No vaccination certificate or pre flight test needed either.

Don't you dare say Mexico isn't a major country.

Since when did Mexico allow Thai nationals to enter without a visa.

Remember what I said

"Tell us what major country allows foreign nationals to enter the country with just a vaccination certificate and pre flight test."

Try looking at the bigger picture.

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Since when did Mexico allow Thai nationals to enter without a visa.

Remember what I said

"Tell us what major country allows foreign nationals to enter the country with just a vaccination certificate and pre flight test."

Try looking at the bigger picture.

That's a totally disingenuous diversion. Who said this was about Thai nationals needing visas or not? You certainly didn't. Can't you just be a big boy and admit you were wrong? 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Jingthing

[spidermike007]

It will be successful in attracting perhaps 20,000 to 50,000 tourists a month. Reduce all restrictions, other than a double vax, and ONE COVID test pre-departure, and then you may see as many as 75,000 a month for the 1st year, 1.5 million in 2023, 3 million in 2024, and up to 5 million tourists a year after 2025. Tourism here will be a highly diminished industry, once all restrictions are lifted, for the rest of our lifetimes. They have succeeding in killing the golden goose. Sabotaging the industry. Possibly deliberately, to put the nightlife and sex industry to rest.

 

The goons will pay a high price for their malicious malfeasance. And the Thai people will pay an even higher price. Hopefully, at some point in the future, the goons will either face criminal charges in the Hague, be exiled, or worse. 

 

 

[Captain Monday]

39 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Something has to take place for there to be a failure. One has to assume you think doing nothing amounts to success.

 

Tell us what major country allows foreign nationals to enter the country with just a vaccination certificate and pre flight test.

Better to compare apples to apples than oranges.

U.S.A. Depending on country you came from and visa during the pandemic. Preflight testing only started in January I think.

 

From Nov 8 it will be pretty much wide open. Vaccine info and one test paper maximum 3 days in advance, not 72 hours. Antigen OK. Done.

Edited October 18, 2021 by Captain Monday

[mtls2005]

What constitutes "Success"?

 

Number of tourists? Hotel rooms booked (that seems to be a metric bandied about with the Phuket Sandbox)?

 

It's a "Start". If they're forced to close down again, it might be judged as premature?

 

The pm needs this, so I suspect it will be deemed to have been successful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by mtls2005

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Quite. Easing entry while restrictions are in place will keep the numbers down, probably seen as a more manageable arrangement than open floodgates.

I know people in the UK that are desperate to get over, the bars being closed is seen as a much better alternative to a second UK winter.

There is no right decision, only the least wrong, which will always be the worst in the eyes of this forum.

I haven't been a 'bar regular' for many years now, (married), so for me the closing of the bars doesn't really bother me (still feel for those who now have no income though).

What I did notice more after settling down when talking to people at work/in the office etc was the sense of embarrassment that many Thai people had with regard to the 'expat bar scene'.

I often wonder how many expats realise how much the majority of Thais look down on them and the bar scene. My last sentence is the reason I believe the 'open to view' is in the sights for culling. Maybe one of the reasons behind the continuing requirements for entry, (no great rush of sexpats returning).

Let's face it, if you starve it long enough it will die.

I'm not saying all the above is 100% the way it will be or not.

Just mulling.

[Karma80]

Poor vaccination coverage numbers with equally poor strategies including reliance on sinovac and experimental non manufacturer sanctioned administration does not mean Thailand is in any equal position to countries which have tried this.

 

Much hated COE just transformed into an app and the extension of a the sandbox model which in itself has failed to do little aside from divert ASQ business from BKK and prop up Phuket hotels. Still covid insurance and the genuine risk that you're off to quarantine hospital for testing positive, and you'll still pay for those and have to make SHA+ bookings.

 

Still a pile of restrictions and people being arrested for having "parties".

 

And..Thailand is getting quite judgey on who is a low risk country people can travel from when it's the covid capital of SE Asia.

 

Sounds all good then, yes ?  ????

[abrahamzvi]

22 hours ago, JCP108 said:

It's already a failure. People make their travel plans ahead of time. November 1st is now only two weeks away and confusion reigns. They're still telling people to use the tracking app that doesn't work. They said "no quarantine" for vaccinated travelers from selected countries but now say one to two days of quarantine and can't decide on which countries are actually on the list. If they wanted to save this high season, clear rules for entry would have been in place two months ago.

I fully understand and appreciate that certain precautionary measures are necessary, such as full vaccinations, tests, Thailand Pass and insurance. However, what I really can’t understand is that even now, 2 weeks to go to November 1 there are still no clear rules. How are people supposed to make plans for a journey to/from Thailand?

[kingstonkid]

It is a start.  To open wide and say no restrictions would put a strain on the Thai people's belief.

 

I do though think that they would have been better off to open the country and promote domestic travel especially witht he long weekend this weekend they could have added a day and made it a time for people to travel then in 14 days see what the affects are.

 

I also think that before you can open the doors you have to remove all the internal limits.  Open the bars the same as they did with restaurants with limits to the number of people and the activity.

 

A slow successful opening is better than an hasty one.  

[Stargeezr]

With the current rules, alcohol ban, Thailand pass, or what ever they want to call an unnecessary 

extra form, plus extra COVID insurance, the November 1st opening will be a big flop. December 1st is only 30

more days so I think that maybe by January 1st 2022, some if not all of the present rules will be dropped, or there will

only be the tourists, or travelers that own property, or have Thai families and just have to go back for this

Winter that will actually travel to Thailand.  I am just hoping that by November of 2022 everything will be

smoother for all the international travelers everywhere.

Geezer

[newnative]

     I selected the second choice.  I think the numbers will not be large at first but they need to make a start, any start, after so much dithering and flip-flopping.  The sooner they get to just 1 requirement of fully-vaccinated and domestic restrictions like alcohol are eliminated, the better.  

[Uroller]

How many things have this Thai government done that helped the people and country at large???? exactly none!

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's a totally disingenuous diversion. Who said this was about Thai nationals needing visas or not? You certainly didn't. Can't you just be a big boy and admit you were wrong? 

This is what I responded to

"They should follow with other major countries & allow fully vaccinated entry with just a preflight test in their home country"

 

People are whinging about the COE, ignoring the complicated visa arrangements for the so called "majors".

Look to the bigger picture.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, overherebc said:

I haven't been a 'bar regular' for many years now, (married), so for me the closing of the bars doesn't really bother me (still feel for those who now have no income though).

What I did notice more after settling down when talking to people at work/in the office etc was the sense of embarrassment that many Thai people had with regard to the 'expat bar scene'.

I often wonder how many expats realise how much the majority of Thais look down on them and the bar scene. My last sentence is the reason I believe the 'open to view' is in the sights for culling. Maybe one of the reasons behind the continuing requirements for entry, (no great rush of sexpats returning).

Let's face it, if you starve it long enough it will die.

I'm not saying all the above is 100% the way it will be or not.

Just mulling.

You have a good point. When I first met my wife's family, around 2005, their view of Pattaya was a den of iniquity and no self respecting Thai would be seen there. It took a long time to get over that and we started going as a family for a buffet breakfast and visit the markets.

In that time the face of Pattaya has changed quite a bit. I am no great fan of smartphones but one great benefit is the bar girls are now so glued to their phones they no longer stand in gangs shouting at everyone on the pavement.

As far as income is concerned, large numbers all around the world lose their jobs for a variety of reasons, and more so recently with the pandemic. Loss of tourists is a global problem and certainly not unique to Thailand.

[NoshowJones]

Good survey this week, all the right questions asked.

[NoshowJones]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:00 AM, meechai said:

I think as long as they require insurance, COE, Covid tests and vaccines it will be a failure.

 

They should follow with other major countries & allow fully vaccinated entry with just a preflight test in their home country

 

Anything more will not likely be tolerated by visitors.

Of course those who need to travel due to family etc will always travel as will the sexpats of course

 

"as will the sexpats of course".  Not unless the bars are open. 

[NoshowJones]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:31 AM, JCP108 said:

It's already a failure. People make their travel plans ahead of time. November 1st is now only two weeks away and confusion reigns. They're still telling people to use the tracking app that doesn't work. They said "no quarantine" for vaccinated travelers from selected countries but now say one to two days of quarantine and can't decide on which countries are actually on the list. If they wanted to save this high season, clear rules for entry would have been in place two months ago.

"clear rules for entry would have been in place two months ago." Of course they would, But the unelected PM and his Generals would not have had the brains to do that.

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, overherebc said:

It's an odd situation.

Virtually everything closed and restaurants not able to sell you a bottle of wine with your meal and don't forget the curfew.

I have a problem to see what will be first. Open everything when there are no tourists or let all the tourists come first when everything is either closed or restricted. Who will open first most likely with the cost for the first two or three months at their expense?

I'm glad it's not me making the decisions on how to go about it.

Your last sentence. You wouldn't be saying that if you, like the unelected PM, had billions in an offshore account.

[The Hammer2021]

Currently  Thailand  is a corrupt,  joyless, miserable,  puritanical  dump. There is no reason  to come  here. If the police actions continue it will be too frightening  for many people.

[The Hammer2021]

7 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Your last sentence. You wouldn't be saying that if you, like the unelected PM, had billions in an offshore account.

Why not?

[Pravda]

8 hours ago, crazykopite said:

Most of the bar girls or massage girls now use Tinder  today I had 34 likes that will keep me busy  ???????????? 

 

Tinder doesn't have likes. Perhaps you are using grindr

[The Hammer2021]

20 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"clear rules for entry would have been in place two months ago." Of course they would, But the unelected PM and his Generals would not have had the brains to do that.

No brains no motivation.  This country  was great under Taksin whatever people  may say. There is not a single country  in the world run effectively by military.

[The Hammer2021]

32 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

"as will the sexpats of course".  Not unless the bars are open. 

Sexpats live here. Sex tourists travel here for holidays. Both spend enormous amounts of money and are very popular  among the locals

[The Hammer2021]

20 hours ago, overherebc said:

I have a feeling that the 'openly obvious' dare I use the expresion sex oriented bars could be a thing of the past. Very likely the bars with the girls sitting outside may not be seen again. Will they survive with only the 'waitresses' inside and out of sight? I also reckon the pole dancing bars have gone for good. The underlying industry will still be there but in a different form. Can I say more behind closed doors?

Where would that leave places like Nana and Soi Cowboy?

As discussed  on another thread: Go Go bars were already on their  way out before covid. They won't  be coming back.