Move to Thailand permanently with 20M baht.

[MrAscii]

Hi All,

 

I'm 45 years old from Indonesia.
Because of a traumatic event, I'm consider to move out the country permanently, and Thailand is one of my favourite destination.

I visited Bangkok once in 2018 and seems Thailand is almost the same work culture, road situation etc with Indonesia.

 

I was wondering if enough and possible, and what the best and safe steps to live and work in Thailand with around 20 millions bath capital?
Invest then work then married or what?

 

I have a plan to apply "volunteer visa" for lets say 1 year to looking for any chance to live and work in Thailand and learn Thai language in school.
Unfortunatelly seems at this time "volunteer visa" is suspended.

 

Thank you very much for any suggestion and opinion. Sorry my English grammar is not really good.

 

[Pravda]

That money goes further in Indonesia than Thailand. 

[MrAscii]

5 minutes ago, Pravda said:

That money goes further in Indonesia than Thailand. 

Thank you for your reply.

I understand that Indonesia is cheaper than Thailand. Thailand economic is stronger than Indonesia.

But a lot of things make me consider to move out from the country.

[The Cipher]

Need more info. What's your profession/employable skills; how much Thai, if any, do you speak; is ฿20M a net amount after relocation costs (including potentially living costs for several months) or a gross amount, and is it freely available for investment? If so, what sorts of investments were you looking at?

 

In theory if you use ~฿1M as relocation capital and invest the remainder of the ~฿19M earning an average return of 5% net of trading costs annually, you'll be able to throw off income of ฿900-950k per year or ฿75-80k per month before taxes without touching principal. That's enough to live an okayish life. This is just based on quick spreadsheet math and is a smoothed model, so actual annual performance is gonna be more volatile.

 

Generally choosing to relocate to a place that you visited once is probably not the best idea unless you're really in a rush. Maybe make another visit and spend 2-3mths on location before making up your mind.

Edited November 25, 2021 by The Cipher
Fixed wonky fonts.

[JayClay]

30 minutes ago, MrAscii said:

 

I have a plan to apply "volunteer visa" for lets say 1 year to looking for any chance to live and work in Thailand and learn Thai language in school.

If you're planning to learn Thai Language then you may as well get an ED visa; it'll be more legitimate than a volunteer visa.

[cmarshall]

You English is fine, but THB 20 million is not enough to retire at age 45.  Are you planning on finding a job in Thailand?  Will you be permitted to work here?

[MrAscii]

2 hours ago, The Cipher said:

Need more info. What's your profession/employable skills; how much Thai, if any, do you speak; is ฿20M a net amount after relocation costs (including potentially living costs for several months) or a gross amount, and is it freely available for investment? If so, what sorts of investments were you looking at?

 

In theory if you use ~฿1M as relocation capital and invest the remainder of the ~฿19M earning an average return of 5% net of trading costs annually, you'll be able to throw off income of ฿900-950k per year or ฿75-80k per month before taxes without touching principal. That's enough to live an okayish life. This is just based on quick spreadsheet math and is a smoothed model, so actual annual performance is gonna be more volatile.

 

Generally choosing to relocate to a place that you visited once is probably not the best idea unless you're really in a rush. Maybe make another visit and spend 2-3mths on location before making up your mind.

Im a retired programmer and currently run a building material distribution company. Can not speak Thai yet. I estimate 20M is nett capital after buy a small condo etc.

[MrAscii]

2 hours ago, cmarshall said:

You English is fine, but THB 20 million is not enough to retire at age 45.  Are you planning on finding a job in Thailand?  Will you be permitted to work here?

Yes I know my situation is quite hard to move permanently in Thai. But I wonder is theres any opportunity for me. Tq

[Jingthing]

I think it's more than enough to afford to live a very solid Thai middle class level life in Thailand without working. Obviously the money would need to be invested semi-ambitiously. I retired here at age 48 with MUCH less than that, did buy a condo for cash of course, and because of investments my net worth is almost double from then. The OP can buy an ELITE CARD. He should get the best health insurance that he can with a view towards future onerous immigration changes. I would argue his money is safer with passive investments than to get involved starting a business here but if he still WANTS to work, that's different. 

 

If he wants to live a super decadent lifestyle like a luxury condo in the best Bangkok locations, five star restaurants daily, luxury cars, frequent international travel, constant mongering, etc. then of course 20 M wouldn't be nearly enough!

Edited November 25, 2021 by Jingthing

[Will B Good]

Do not buy property, renting is cheap and, as you have capital it better employed in other investments that provide income rather than capital growth.

 

If you can't survive here on 20 million baht then God help you.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Will B Good said:

Do not buy property, renting is cheap and, as you have capital it better employed in other investments that provide income rather than capital growth.

 

If you can't survive here on 20 million baht then God help you.

That's usually good advice. If he buys something he likes and never sells and lives here for many decades, then it would work out financially. But otherwise, as a general rule, buying property here is very risky because just because you own it, doesn't mean you always be allowed to live in it. 

[Will B Good]

Just now, Jingthing said:

That's usually good advice. If he buys something he likes and never sells and lives here for many decades, then it would work out financially. But otherwise, as a general rule, buying property here is very risky because just because you own it, doesn't mean you always be allowed to live in it. 

I looked at buying.....nothing too fancy, 6 million.

 

But 6 million tied up, when the rent was only 200k is a no brainer, to me at least.

 

 

[KhunLA]

With ฿20m / $625k USD, I could retire anywhere I wanted in the world, and Thailand probably wouldn't make my short list, or any country.  I think I'd play nomad for first 5 years, and keep my options open and just keep my base in home country.  Take time to explore other options, as you already know Thailand.

 

Not sure how that would work with Indonesian passport.

[BritManToo]

Bring some German giant rabbits with you and start a Giant rabbit farm.

Currently selling for 10Kbht+ each.

Widely available in Indonesia, almost none to be had in Thailand.

Edited November 25, 2021 by BritManToo

[tubby johnson]

Same here. I retired with less than 20M Baht and get by comfortably. You should can in US and European REITs, so-called Dividend Aristocrats that raise their dividend year after year, as well as disruptive technology stocks. My portfolio yields more than 10% annually (and rising).

Don't buy real estate, but rent --- Stay liquid.

And think twice - no three times - before you marry a local lady.

[The Cipher]

27 minutes ago, MrAscii said:

Im a retired programmer and currently run a building material distribution company. Can not speak Thai yet. I estimate 20M is nett capital after buy a small condo etc.

Can u keep running the company from Thailand? And/or are your programming skills current enough to possibly freelance or pick up a remote job?

 

Focusing only on the financial side of your question (since that's what I know), ฿20M is probably enough to retire to Thailand but it's something that I'd advise you to think really carefully about.

 

Assuming no income and only nest egg, you'd want to feel confident that your pot of capital could reasonably see you through old age. You're 45 now, so you'd basically need to feel confident that it could last the back half of your life.

 

I quickly ran some spreadsheet cases, and if you earned a 4.25% net real return (after trading costs, taxes and inflation) and spent ฿70k/mth you'd be able to go indefinitely without touching principal. But if your net return drops below 4.25% or your costs run above ฿70k/mth (both inflation adjusted), then you'd start drawing down principal.

 

In a scenario where, let's say, inflation runs hot and/or markets run cool and you earn a real net return of just 3%, you'd be net worth negative at age 87. I don't think that'll happen but if it is something to consider. Too many people seem to retire without considering that the world of tomorrow might be materially different to the world of today.

 

All of that is a long winded way of saying that you can probably retire but there would be some risk. If you can continue earning income to grow your capital for a few years, that would be the best. For example if you retire at age 50 with ฿25M, you'd easily make it through 100 even in the 3% return case.

 

There's a lot more remote jobs now post-Covid so you might be able to pick one up and live in Thailand while still working. My gf and I both work remotely from Bangkok for part of the year so it's definitely possible!

[Tom H]

Come with OA Visa and change Later to O-Visa. Open Bank account, Deposit 800k Baht. Use Wise for Money transfer. Live in Bkk near Ari for example. Rent 50 sqm. Dont pay more 20k Baht. Drink a coffee at a nice shop at Ari.

All the best.

[Tom H]

6 minutes ago, The Cipher said:

Can u keep running the company from Thailand? And/or are your programming skills current enough to possibly freelance or pick up a remote job?

 

Focusing only on the financial side of your question (since that's what I know), ฿20M is probably enough to retire to Thailand but it's something that I'd advise you to think really carefully about.

 

Assuming no income and only nest egg, you'd want to feel confident that your pot of capital could reasonably see you through old age. You're 45 now, so you'd basically need to feel confident that it could last the back half of your life.

 

I quickly ran some spreadsheet cases, and if you earned a 4.25% net real return (after trading costs, taxes and inflation) and spent ฿70k/mth you'd be able to go indefinitely without touching principal. But if your net return drops below 4.25% or your costs run above ฿70k/mth (both inflation adjusted), then you'd start drawing down principal.

 

In a scenario where, let's say, inflation runs hot and/or markets run cool and you earn a real net return of just 3%, you'd be net worth negative at age 87. I don't think that'll happen but if it is something to consider. Too many people seem to retire without considering that the world of tomorrow might be materially different to the world of today.

 

All of that is a long winded way of saying that you can probably retire but there would be some risk. If you can continue earning income to grow your capital for a few years, that would be the best. For example if you retire at age 50 with ฿25M, you'd easily make it through 100 even in the 3% return case.

 

There's a lot more remote jobs now post-Covid so you might be able to pick one up and live in Thailand while still working. My gf and I both work remotely from Bangkok for part of the year so it's definitely possible!

Correct!

[worgeordie]

Just don't mention to anyone when you arrive here, that

you have 20 Million Baht ........

regards worgeordie

[MrAscii]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I think it's more than enough to afford to live a very solid Thai middle class level life in Thailand without working. Obviously the money would need to be invested semi-ambitiously. I retired here at age 48 with MUCH less than that, did buy a condo for cash of course, and because of investments my net worth is almost double from then. The OP can buy an ELITE CARD. He should get the best health insurance that he can with a view towards future onerous immigration changes. I would argue his money is safer with passive investments than to get involved starting a business here but if he still WANTS to work, that's different. 

 

If he wants to live a super decadent lifestyle like a luxury condo in the best Bangkok locations, five star restaurants daily, luxury cars, frequent international travel, constant mongering, etc. then of course 20 M wouldn't be nearly enough!

 

Thank you for your opinion. I dont want to live luxury. I'm a plain person. And yes, once I live several months in Thai and know the sitiatuon better I will buy a condo.

If possible I will not work in Thai instead of run my Indonesia company remotely.

Thank you.

[MrAscii]

3 hours ago, Will B Good said:

I looked at buying.....nothing too fancy, 6 million.

 

But 6 million tied up, when the rent was only 200k is a no brainer, to me at least.

 

 

Thank you for the advice. Let me try to live in Thai and lets see. Thank you.

[MrAscii]

3 hours ago, KhunLA said:

With ฿20m / $625k USD, I could retire anywhere I wanted in the world, and Thailand probably wouldn't make my short list, or any country.  I think I'd play nomad for first 5 years, and keep my options open and just keep my base in home country.  Take time to explore other options, as you already know Thailand.

 

Not sure how that would work with Indonesian passport.

LOL, Indonesia passport is one of the most weak passport in the world. I see Thai culture is almost the same with Indonesia if we are talking about work culture, house, food etc.. Thats why I consider it.

[MrAscii]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Bring some German giant rabbits with you and start a Giant rabbit farm.

Currently selling for 10Kbht+ each.

Widely available in Indonesia, almost none to be had in Thailand.

Thank you for the advice. Thank you.

[MrAscii]

3 hours ago, tubby johnson said:

Same here. I retired with less than 20M Baht and get by comfortably. You should can in US and European REITs, so-called Dividend Aristocrats that raise their dividend year after year, as well as disruptive technology stocks. My portfolio yields more than 10% annually (and rising).

Don't buy real estate, but rent --- Stay liquid.

And think twice - no three times - before you marry a local lady.

Thank you for the investment idea. And yes I heard alot from youtuber about Thai lady and should be aware.

[MrAscii]

3 hours ago, The Cipher said:

Can u keep running the company from Thailand? And/or are your programming skills current enough to possibly freelance or pick up a remote job?

 

Focusing only on the financial side of your question (since that's what I know), ฿20M is probably enough to retire to Thailand but it's something that I'd advise you to think really carefully about.

 

Assuming no income and only nest egg, you'd want to feel confident that your pot of capital could reasonably see you through old age. You're 45 now, so you'd basically need to feel confident that it could last the back half of your life.

 

I quickly ran some spreadsheet cases, and if you earned a 4.25% net real return (after trading costs, taxes and inflation) and spent ฿70k/mth you'd be able to go indefinitely without touching principal. But if your net return drops below 4.25% or your costs run above ฿70k/mth (both inflation adjusted), then you'd start drawing down principal.

 

In a scenario where, let's say, inflation runs hot and/or markets run cool and you earn a real net return of just 3%, you'd be net worth negative at age 87. I don't think that'll happen but if it is something to consider. Too many people seem to retire without considering that the world of tomorrow might be materially different to the world of today.

 

All of that is a long winded way of saying that you can probably retire but there would be some risk. If you can continue earning income to grow your capital for a few years, that would be the best. For example if you retire at age 50 with ฿25M, you'd easily make it through 100 even in the 3% return case.

 

There's a lot more remote jobs now post-Covid so you might be able to pick one up and live in Thailand while still working. My gf and I both work remotely from Bangkok for part of the year so it's definitely possible!

I will try to run it remotely although if I sell it I may get another 20M bath. I will think as many as possibilities.

Im expert in web hosting, but since the market too saturated I swicthed in to building material distribution company.

Im not sure whether in Thailand web hosting business is still profitable or not.

[MrAscii]

3 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Just don't mention to anyone when you arrive here, that

you have 20 Million Baht ........

regards worgeordie

Thank you, yes I'm aware about it.

[MrAscii]

Thank you guys, the story is currently I live very well in Indonesia. Not luxury, but still comfortable.

The problem is, long time ago I was experienced racial and religion abuse and suffer from PTSD for a long time. After several years took medicine, my doctor said it better to try to migrate to another country try to forget it and lets see if is work.
Thats why if I decided to try to migrate in a new country, I will not in hurry bring all capital and buy property. I will try to live 1 or 2 years an if my condition is better that I will live permanently.

 

Thank you.

Edited November 25, 2021 by MrAscii

[freedomnow]

6 hours ago, cmarshall said:

You English is fine, but THB 20 million is not enough to retire at age 45.  Are you planning on finding a job in Thailand?  Will you be permitted to work here?

Depends how you use it - spend it slowly/quickly or invest it.

 

See this again and again, raw numbers comments with no consideration on whether the golden goose is getting plundered or if it's generating an average spread investment return with the principle being preserved.

 

If a person can get "house money" out of crypto fast and pull their seed money out.... then that is another recent and new factor....free money speculating on a potential fast and high return avenue as well as more traditional investing ways.

 

 

[EricTh]

7 hours ago, MrAscii said:

 

Since you are 45 years old, you will be eligible to apply for retirement visa in 5 years time.

 

Why not study Thai (education visa) for a few years, then change to retirement visa when you turn 50 years old. You need only 800,000 baht.

 

I have less than 2 million baht and am retiring comfortably.

 

The business environment in Thailand isn't good for foreigners unless it's a huge factory because you have to hire at least 4 Thai workers.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2021 by EricTh

[CANSIAM]

3 hours ago, Tom H said:

Come with OA Visa and change Later to O-Visa. Open Bank account, Deposit 800k Baht. Use Wise for Money transfer. Live in Bkk near Ari for example. Rent 50 sqm. Dont pay more 20k Baht. Drink a coffee at a nice shop at Ari.

All the best.

He can't come with an OA, He's not 50 years old..........