Classified documents from Biden’s time as VP discovered in private office

[Bkk Brian]

47 minutes ago, TingTonger said:

He will just Declassify he is President, still in the Cult huh 

The docs are already back in National Archives what cult are you referring to?

[dotcalm]

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the “sensitive compartmented information” designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/10/politics/classified-documents-joe-biden

 

Unless Biden originally classified these docs and/or they came from the VP's office (refer to Section 6.1(l) of E.O. 13292) he has zero legal standing to possess them and that is theft as opposed to the absolute rights and authority inherent in the Presidents declassification powers putting Biden in far greater legal jeopardy than 45 and by doing so just cratered the case against Trump. No one I'm aware of has ever accused Biden of being overly bright, (another example of his state of mind). I have not fact checked the part about accusing Biden of being bright.

[ozimoron]

6 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the “sensitive compartmented information” designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/10/politics/classified-documents-joe-biden

 

Unless Biden originally classified these docs and/or they came from the VP's office (refer to Section 6.1(l) of E.O. 13292) he has zero legal standing to possess them and that is theft as opposed to the absolute rights and authority inherent in the Presidents declassification powers putting Biden in far greater legal jeopardy than 45 and by doing so just cratered the case against Trump. No one I'm aware of has ever accused Biden of being overly bright, (another example of his state of mind). I have not fact checked the part about accusing Biden of being bright.

Whatever happens to Biden, it has no effect on Trump's case. None.

[dotcalm]

1 minute ago, ozimoron said:

Whatever happens to Biden, it has no effect on Trump's case. None.

In a perfect world complete with a single tiered justice system perhaps, but in reality, not even close.

It may be that the elites want to <deleted>-can Biden, it's seems odd that CNN is not covering this up for Biden but reporting his frequent boners instead. This feels all too peculiar and there are no coincidences, see how this plays out in the days ahead. I'm sure the Trump folks, Trump included are having a good laugh at Biden's latest cock-up.

[dotcalm]

1 hour ago, Phoenix Rising said:

So how do you compare this "disgraceful act of negligence" with Trump's willful removal/theft of top secret documents and his constant lies about them to the FBI?

I'll keep it simple for you: the PRA (Presidential Records Act).

Biden was VP at the time.

[candide]

Storm in a tea cup....

[placeholder]

20 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the “sensitive compartmented information” designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/10/politics/classified-documents-joe-biden

 

Unless Biden originally classified these docs and/or they came from the VP's office (refer to Section 6.1(l) of E.O. 13292) he has zero legal standing to possess them and that is theft as opposed to the absolute rights and authority inherent in the Presidents declassification powers putting Biden in far greater legal jeopardy than 45 and by doing so just cratered the case against Trump. No one I'm aware of has ever accused Biden of being overly bright, (another example of his state of mind). I have not fact checked the part about accusing Biden of being bright.

First off, what jury is going to believe that Trump declassified these documents? During months of discussions with the Federal govt, that issue was never raised. Only in the wake of the FBI search of the property did this line of defense emerge. 

But even if Trump did declassify the documents, possession of them would still be a crime. And as has been pointed out before, criminal liability in such a case goes to the issue of intent. Trump was warned by lawyers that taking documents from the White House without National Archives approval was illegal. His legal representative wrote that all documents had been returned. She was careful to note that she had merely been told this, but had not personally examined the containers holding them. Of course, that turned out to be false.  When representatives from the Justice Dept showed up in June at Mar a Lago, they were refused permission to examine the containers holding the documents.  This is all very strong evidence supporting the case that Trump obstructed justice.

Whereas when Biden's lawyers found the documents, they immediately reported this to the proper authorities. Unless it can be shown that Biden was purposely sequestering these materials at his office to keep them hidden, there is no case against him.

[candide]

54 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the “sensitive compartmented information” designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/10/politics/classified-documents-joe-biden

 

Unless Biden originally classified these docs and/or they came from the VP's office (refer to Section 6.1(l) of E.O. 13292) he has zero legal standing to possess them and that is theft as opposed to the absolute rights and authority inherent in the Presidents declassification powers putting Biden in far greater legal jeopardy than 45 and by doing so just cratered the case against Trump. No one I'm aware of has ever accused Biden of being overly bright, (another example of his state of mind). I have not fact checked the part about accusing Biden of being bright.

You are assuming Trump declassified the documents he was keeping. This is not the case, so he wasn't more allowed than anyone else to keep them, as soon as he was not president any more.

 

On top of it, when Biden took the documents, it was before Trump signed the modified law making it a felony. The law cannot be applied retroactively, he would only risk being convicted of a plain offense, not a felony as Trump.

 

BTW, we all know Trump is not overly bright, but to change a law to make it more tough, and then to infringe it himself..... ????

Edited January 10, 2023 by candide

[dotcalm]

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

hat jury is going to believe that Trump declassified these documents?

what jury? The one there won't be?

 

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

But even if Trump did declassify the documents, possession of them would still be a crime.

Then, indict him based on the evidence.

 

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Biden's lawyers found the documents, they immediately reported this to the proper authorities.

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

This is all very strong evidence supporting the case that Trump obstructed justice.

indict him; should have done so already. So don't expect it now.

 

Biden was VP and was not authorized to possess them period, full stop. Ignorance is not a defense to the law. Refer to the PRA and the EO I mentioned previously. In essence possession of classified docs is a total no brainer crime unless you are POTUS, NOT a VP. Biden's goose is cooked.

25 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Unless it can be shown that Biden was purposely sequestering these materials at his office to keep them hidden, there is no case against him.

Biden made the case (prima facia) by possessing them, illegally, as he had no authority to have classified records/docs which is federal crime and he will/should be held accountable.

If he was POTUS at the time we would not be having this discussion

Edited January 10, 2023 by dotcalm

[dotcalm]

17 minutes ago, candide said:

You are assuming Trump declassified the documents he was keeping.

Nope, but please show me.

[Bkk Brian]

1 hour ago, dotcalm said:

"The classified materials included some top-secret files with the “sensitive compartmented information” designation, also known as SCI, which is used for highly sensitive information obtained from intelligence sources."
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/10/politics/classified-documents-joe-biden

 

Unless Biden originally classified these docs and/or they came from the VP's office (refer to Section 6.1(l) of E.O. 13292) he has zero legal standing to possess them and that is theft as opposed to the absolute rights and authority inherent in the Presidents declassification powers putting Biden in far greater legal jeopardy than 45 and by doing so just cratered the case against Trump. No one I'm aware of has ever accused Biden of being overly bright, (another example of his state of mind). I have not fact checked the part about accusing Biden of being bright.

That executive order from Bush in 2003 is redundant since the new one introduced by Obama in 2009

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/executive-order-classified-national-security-information

[candide]

15 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Nope, but please show me.

You wrote: "as opposed to the absolute rights and authority inherent in the Presidents declassification powers putting Biden in far greater legal jeopardy than 45"

 

It seems you implicitly assume Trump's document were declassified. Otherwise there was no reason for you to write that Trump would be in less jeopardy than Biden.

 

My point (in a post you trunkated) is that, as these documents were not declassified, and as Trump was not President any more, he doesn't benefit from any particular right any more and Biden is not in a far greater legal jeopardy than Trump.

[placeholder]

33 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

what jury? The one there won't be?

 

Then, indict him based on the evidence.

 

indict him; should have done so already. So don't expect it now.

 

Biden was VP and was not authorized to possess them period, full stop. Ignorance is not a defense to the law. Refer to the PRA and the EO I mentioned previously. In essence possession of classified docs is a total no brainer crime unless you are POTUS, NOT a VP. Biden's goose is cooked.

Biden made the case (prima facia) by possessing them, illegally, as he had no authority to have classified records/docs which is federal crime and he will/should be held accountable.

If he was POTUS at the time we would not be having this discussion

The prosecutor assigned to the case has just returned from Europe. In a case like this, they are going to be very punctilious. One thing I know: when someone makes on argument based on predictions, that means they've got nothing.

First off, we don't know if Biden even had them in his possession. Someone else may have been looking at them. And once again, and you seem utterly deaf to this, it goes to intent. The law specifically states that the offender has to "willfully and unlawfully remove documents..." With Trump the evidence is clear. 

And you think it's relevant that that Trump declassified the documents. It's not. It would be a crime to "willfully and unlawfully remove" them regardless of their alleged status.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/trumps-presidential-records-act-violations-short-and-long-term-solutions

[metisdead]

A post with a link to a Questionable Source and the replies have been removed. 

[dotcalm]

1 hour ago, candide said:

s that, as these documents were not declassified

That's your opinion and obviously you have no basic grasp of the PRA. Clinton, his wife, etc all set the precedent for classified doc retention and suddenly it changes for Trump. There are no indictments coming for Trump unless Biden gets done over too. They are picking on Trump and obviously they have jack-<deleted> or they wouldn't sick the partisan hack job prosecutor on him and for what? Jan 6th is a wipe-out and massive humiliation for the uniparty and it's all but dead in the water now and Mar-a-Lago is as well now. 6 years of liberal deep state buffoonery trying to "get Trump" and they still have nothing but now they got Biden stealing classified documents and storing them in his private office at UPenn which just so happened to receive $54M in anonymous donations from Chinese after Biden began his "think tank" there. That's serious and sounds like potential corruption and  Biden could very well be compromised after theft of classified docs, did the Chinese see them or given copies?

He's done like dinner, and he needs to go. As if the evidence of the Biden pay for play schemes tied to the laptop is not enough, you  have this, he's DANGEROUS to America. Trump's a saint compared to Biden.

Edited January 10, 2023 by dotcalm

[dotcalm]

1 hour ago, placeholder said:

With Trump the evidence is clear. 

And with Biden, he has stolen classified US documents, they were in in his possession, as admitted to by his lawyers after they caught. Being the VP, Biden had no legal basis for retention of any classified materials whereas the PRA specifies the authority of the President handling and possessing classified material.

 

Biden is a thief plain and simple, he STOLE classified material from the US gov't the question now is what did he do with the classified materials he stole while VP under Obama.

He is a fool and a dangerous corrupt one at that.

[dotcalm]

Now, considering the circumstances and the evidence of the Biden family corruption the FBI must launch raids all of Biden's residences immediately to locate any more classified and sensitive documents Biden may have stolen and to stop any potential threat to American democracy caused by Biden's actions. It's critical now to put a stop to the treasonous acts of the former VP and now POTUS. Biden is DANGEROUS, and this needs to be investigated and mitigated without delay.

[placeholder]

47 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

And with Biden, he has stolen classified US documents, they were in in his possession, as admitted to by his lawyers after they caught. Being the VP, Biden had no legal basis for retention of any classified materials whereas the PRA specifies the authority of the President handling and possessing classified material.

 

Biden is a thief plain and simple, he STOLE classified material from the US gov't the question now is what did he do with the classified materials he stole while VP under Obama.

He is a fool and a dangerous corrupt one at that.

Again, the law stipulates willful violation. You seem unable to absorb that fact. You also don't seem to understand the gravity of obstruction of justice.

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Now, considering the circumstances and the evidence of the Biden family corruption the FBI must launch raids all of Biden's residences immediately to locate any more classified and sensitive documents Biden may have stolen and to stop any potential threat to American democracy caused by Biden's actions. It's critical now to put a stop to the treasonous acts of the former VP and now POTUS. Biden is DANGEROUS, and this needs to be investigated and mitigated without delay.

Once again, from the landing page of this forum: 

"Any alleged factual claims must be supported by a valid link to an approved credible source."

Either put up or froth elsewhere.

[candide]

1 hour ago, dotcalm said:

That's your opinion and obviously you have no basic grasp of the PRA. Clinton, his wife, etc all set the precedent for classified doc retention and suddenly it changes for Trump. There are no indictments coming for Trump unless Biden gets done over too. They are picking on Trump and obviously they have jack-<deleted> or they wouldn't sick the partisan hack job prosecutor on him and for what? Jan 6th is a wipe-out and massive humiliation for the uniparty and it's all but dead in the water now and Mar-a-Lago is as well now. 6 years of liberal deep state buffoonery trying to "get Trump" and they still have nothing but now they got Biden stealing classified documents and storing them in his private office at UPenn which just so happened to receive $54M in anonymous donations from Chinese after Biden began his "think tank" there. That's serious and sounds like potential corruption and  Biden could very well be compromised after theft of classified docs, did the Chinese see them or given copies?

He's done like dinner, and he needs to go. As if the evidence of the Biden pay for play schemes tied to the laptop is not enough, you  have this, he's DANGEROUS to America. Trump's a saint compared to Biden. 

Who's got no grasp?

There is no evidence Trump declassified the documents, except Trump's own word (Trump's word, lol!). On top of it, according to the law signed by Trump himself, it is not even necessary for the documents to be declassified to characterise an act of felony.

 

The conspiracy theory that Biden may have betrayed his country to get China to subsidise Penn University is absolutely laughable! China started funding Penn in 2014, while the Biden Center was only created in 2017 (according to the right-wing NYPost). On top of 115 universities got money from China, some of them much more than Penn (link in another post). So there is a traitor in each of these 115 universities? ????

 

To reply to your other post, Biden was not "caught". It has been already mentioned to you and It's a lie. He gave back the documents without even been asked to, as the NARA and the DOJ were unaware of their existence. 

 

You can post right-wing propaganda fake news and lame conspiracy theories as many times as you want, it will not make them true!

 

 

[dotcalm]

1 hour ago, candide said:

He gave back the documents without even been asked to, as the NARA and the DOJ were unaware of their existence. 

Sure he returned them after he got caught. After he obtained the classified material ILLEGALLY, as in witout color of right and is guilty of federal crimes for stealing sensitive materials, documents in this case. Nothing can change that, it's like you can't un-shoot the gun that kllled. He's done, for sure on that score. The docs were locked in a closet at his office in UPenn with or without security?? At least Trump had authority to poseess the docs and they had 24 hour SS on the Mar-a-Lago premises.

So now perhaps Biden qualifies for the application of U.S. Code Title 18, Section 2071 that states, "Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States."

 

If you recall Marc Elias comments re USC Title 18, Sec 2071 concerning Trump, which we know damn straight was the tactic the deep state hoped could prevent Trump from running for office.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clinton-linked-lawyer-says-trump-could-be-barred-reelection-after-fbi-raid-cites-us-code

 

He (Biden) stole sensitive, classified documents while VP and so much as admitted it thru his lawyers. Tough luck Joe, AND he most likely just destroyed whatever case they had against Trump thanks to Biden's thieving, treasonous ways recently uncovered at his document storage at UPenn.

 

Biden is going to have a very uninspiring  legacy rife with crime and corruption and massive policy failures all things considered and has become a huge national and global embarrassment and disgrace.

Biden's earned it and can thank all his voters for their assistance in electing him.

Edited January 10, 2023 by dotcalm

[candide]

4 minutes ago, dotcalm said:

Sure he returned them after he got caught. After he obtained the classified material ILLEGALLY, as in witout color of right and is guilty of federal crimes for stealing sensitive materials, documents in this case. Nothing can change that, it's like you can't un-shoot the gun that kllled. He's done, for sure on that score. The docs were locked in a closet at his office in UPenn with or without security?? At least Trump had authority to poseess the docs and they had 24 hour SS on the Mar-a-Lago premises.

So now perhaps Biden qualifies for the application of U.S. Code Title 18, Section 2071 that states, "Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States."

 

If you recall Marc Elias comments re USC Title 18, Sec 2071 concerning Trump, which we know damn straight was the tactic the deep state hoped could prevent Trump from running for office.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clinton-linked-lawyer-says-trump-could-be-barred-reelection-after-fbi-raid-cites-us-code

 

He (Biden) stole sensitive, classified documents while VP and so much as admitted it thru his lawyers. Tough luck Joe, AND he most likely just destroyed whatever case they had against Trump thanks to Biden's thieving, treasonous ways recently uncovered at his document storage at UPenn.

 

Biden is going to have a very criminal and pathetic legacy all things considered and has become a huge national embarrassment and disgrace. Nothing will change that.

Not caught. It's a lie.

[candide]

Exclusive: US intelligence materials related to Ukraine, Iran and UK found in Biden’s private office, source tells CNN

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/10/politics/biden-classified-documents-iran-ukraine-united-kingdom-beau-funeral/index.html

 

[vandeventer]

10 hours ago, placeholder said:

Share with us the evidence that Biden was keeping documents in his residence. He definitely wasn't keeping some in his bedroom, unlike a certain other party.

Read any news even CNN can tell you. Presidents and VP's have been getting away with this for years, but only Trump gets to have the FBI in full force at his door.. Is this Justice or Just us???

[Bkk Brian]

18 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Read any news even CNN can tell you. Presidents and VP's have been getting away with this for years, but only Trump gets to have the FBI in full force at his door.. Is this Justice or Just us???

Only Trump refused to hand over all the documents he took, see the difference.

[Tug]

16 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

Read any news even CNN can tell you. Presidents and VP's have been getting away with this for years, but only Trump gets to have the FBI in full force at his door.. Is this Justice or Just us???

Nope Donnie was told repeatedly to return the docs he returned a few kept the rest then lied then delayed then purgered his attorneys then obstructed then and only then he was served a LAWFUL search warrant to recover what was recovered ( we still don’t know if he’s hording more docs to sell or for leverage) so nope very little comparison to me it looks like a sloppy staffer skrewed up in the case of the Biden snafu also if it came to any doubt they wouldent need a search warrant the Biden’s would invite them in and probably serve them refreshments nope no comparison Imo 

[Credo]

4 hours ago, dotcalm said:

Sure he returned them after he got caught. After he obtained the classified material ILLEGALLY, as in witout color of right and is guilty of federal crimes for stealing sensitive materials, documents in this case. Nothing can change that, it's like you can't un-shoot the gun that kllled. He's done, for sure on that score. The docs were locked in a closet at his office in UPenn with or without security?? At least Trump had authority to poseess the docs and they had 24 hour SS on the Mar-a-Lago premises.

So now perhaps Biden qualifies for the application of U.S. Code Title 18, Section 2071 that states, "Whoever, having the custody of any such record, proceeding, map, book, document, paper, or other thing, willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, falsifies, or destroys the same, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both; and shall forfeit his office and be disqualified from holding any office under the United States."

 

If you recall Marc Elias comments re USC Title 18, Sec 2071 concerning Trump, which we know damn straight was the tactic the deep state hoped could prevent Trump from running for office.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/clinton-linked-lawyer-says-trump-could-be-barred-reelection-after-fbi-raid-cites-us-code

 

He (Biden) stole sensitive, classified documents while VP and so much as admitted it thru his lawyers. Tough luck Joe, AND he most likely just destroyed whatever case they had against Trump thanks to Biden's thieving, treasonous ways recently uncovered at his document storage at UPenn.

 

Biden is going to have a very uninspiring  legacy rife with crime and corruption and massive policy failures all things considered and has become a huge national and global embarrassment and disgrace.

Biden's earned it and can thank all his voters for their assistance in electing him.

He never got caught.  He had the documents returned.  No police, no FBI.  His attorneys saw them and called the WH; the WH advised they needed to be turned over to the NA.  They called the NA who retrieved them the next day.  Everything was turned over including obviously personal papers to the NA and they can sort it out and return what belongs to Biden.   

 

[Pattaya Spotter]

What were national security documents doing in a safe in Joe Biden's desk at the consulting firm where he was working while not in government (hard to believe I know) and why the months long delay in reporting this to the public. Was "Tricky Joe" selling them or their contents to the foreign countries who were the firm's clients?

 

Documents Found in Biden’s Private Office Include Material on Foreign Countries https://nyti.ms/3XknGjF

Edited January 10, 2023 by Pattaya Spotter

[SunnyinBangrak]

8 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

Only Trump refused to hand over all the documents he took, see the difference.

Evidence that Trump personally "took" the documents? I saw no evidence that Donald Trump personally took any classified documents as you insinuate. In all likelihood in both Biden and Trump's(and the other ex Presidents and non ex Presidents too) being caught with classified documents it would have been staffers physically doing the taking/storing, and in all probability without even the knowledge of either of the 2 mentioned.

 

The difference in these 2 cases will be in the contents of the documents. IF it turns out that DT had possession of some dinner menus and a paperback novel and JB has vital top secret documents perhaps even pertaining to the deep state disinformation campaign to make his corruption issues go away then it will be devastating. We will just have to be patient, but sure the left have egg on their faces now, and are not in a happy place.

[SunnyinBangrak]

5 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

What were national security documents doing in a safe in Joe Biden's desk at the consulting firm where he was working while not in government (hard to believe I know) and why the months long delay in reporting this to the public. Was "Tricky Joe" selling them or their contents to the foreign countries who were the firm's clients?

 

Documents Found in Biden’s Private Office Include Material on Foreign Countries https://nyti.ms/3XknGjF

Wow this just keeps getting worse and worse for him. I suspect a raid on all his residences will be imminent.