Demand For 712 Baht Minimum Wage Nationwide At May Day Rally

[ikke1959]

They should stop with daily payment.. everybody should be paid monthly..based on 1 day a week off and at least 600 THB a day. It would mean that everybody earns at least 26x600THB = 15.600 THB a month. and are 1 day a week off. The people than also have paid holidays, as this week for example Monday off Thursday off Friday off and than the we weekend again.. Daily wages are not paid on days off, but if we want to help the economy with monthly salaries we will. There will a lot less holidays, as companies have to pay the salaries on days off. People can spend more, as they have a better income, and the price will go up a bit but when you tell that the inflation correction is related to the wages and if the inflation is 10% the wages also raise 10% you will see that prices don't rise so much...But who am I ??

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, JimGant said:

Only a progressive socialist, who never had Econ 101, would come to this conclusion. Sure, some businesses could absorb the added cost, without having to layoff employees. But in countries, with a large sweat labor workforce, like Thailand -- you can't increase this workforce's productivity in a timely-enough fashion, to meet the added cost of a minimum wage. Thus, some flying at the edge businesses will need to close. Others, like my having two gardeners, will need to let one go, as the cost of two gardeners just wouldn't equate to having my hedges trimmed on a timely basis. Thus, sloppy hedges -- even with the one remaining worker now being overworked. Hopefully he will realize what it's now costing him, in added sweat, for that additional wage. Not sure socialists are aware of all the aspects, mainly bad, of a minimum wage. So, certainly some job loss will occur. How could anybody think otherwise?

"Only a progressive socialist, who never had Econ 101"

KRC executive director holds OhD. In economics from MIT.

See also "4 Myths About Raising the Minimum Wage" by Robert Reich, former Secretary of Labor in the Clinton administration, currently Chancellor's Professor of Public Policy at the University of California at Berkely and Senior Fellow at the Blum Center, named one of the most effective cabinet secretaries of the twentieth century.

 

 

See also "The 7 Most Dangerous Myths About a $15 Mimimum Wage" by Tim Worstall published in Forbes, Senior Fellow of the Adam Smith Institute on the subjects of Environmentalism and Economics, degree from the London School of Evonomics and Political Science.

See also ETC. many more economic experts with similar conclusions regarding many myths related to raising minimum wages.

Your economic expertise?

And in all the alleged negative effects of not raising the minimum wage, there is never mention of freezing or lowering pay for executives/CEO's who more than often increase their salaries annually far beyond the rate of inflation while contributing virtual nothing towards sales and services that are the basis for company income. 

[JimGant]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Your economic expertise?

It doesn't take a genius to realize some jobs would be lost with an increase in minimum wage; so you can't flat out say FALSE about jobs being lost -- only about "how many". Folks at the margin, whose productivity would now no longer match wage payment, would, in most cases, be let go (unless he had a generous employer, with deep pockets).

 

Both sides of the argument over emphasize their points of view. Your left wing crowd is as laughable as the right wing's argument, that only looks at the math, and not the human element.

 

The CBO is about as neutral as you can get -- and their studies came out with the following:

 

Quote

However, different analysts may come to very different conclusions about potential job losses, based on what model that they use. A recent report from the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) estimated 1.4 million jobs would be lost (0.9 percent of employment) by the time the federal minimum wage reaches $15 in 2025

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/personal-finance/minimum-wage-debate/

But, reading further on into the article, the CBO's figures are challenged, with good arguments, saying only half a million jobs, not 1.4 million jobs would be lost. And that, overall, raising the minimum wage would be a good thing.

 

Maybe, in some situations. Not sure about 712 baht in Thailand -- not being a round figure draws attention to the methodology used in deriving that number, since there are so many questionable variables involved -- where a round number would highlight lack of definition in the methodology. So much for scientific logic..

 

Anyway, my argument was with the flat out statement from an apparent left leaning crowd that, "Jobs would be lost: FALSE." Obviously, an emotional jab, rooted in ideology, not economic common sense -- that even a music major could grasp as ludicrous.  And, when you list some of the contributors to this "theory," like Robert Reich, I realize where this logic, or lack thereof, originated.

 

So, raise the minimum wage to 712 baht -- and no jobs will be lost? You're sticking to this, based on some non scientific article you read on the Internet? Maybe you're not even a music major....

 

 

[quake]

712 Baht Minimum wage.

I hope they all get it. 

What could ever go wrong. 

 

[Myran]

Absolutely, and then watch half of all Thai companies go bankrupt or move elsewhere in a few months, leaving millions without jobs.

[patman30]

On 5/2/2023 at 3:49 PM, MrMojoRisin said:

Nonsense
/ˈnɒns(ə)ns/

noun

1. 1. 

   spoken or written words that have no meaning or make no sense.

so there are no benefits of minimum wage
thanks for making my point.

[zzaa09]

10 hours ago, Myran said:

Absolutely, and then watch half of all Thai companies go bankrupt or move elsewhere in a few months, leaving millions without jobs.

Thai companies don't relocate to other countries.

Not the way things are done.

[Myran]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Thai companies don't relocate to other countries.

Not the way things are done.

Plenty of them will if the minimum salary is raised to 712 baht. Either that or shut down.

[johnnybangkok]

16 hours ago, JimGant said:

It doesn't take a genius to realize some jobs would be lost with an increase in minimum wage; so you can't flat out say FALSE about jobs being lost -- only about "how many". Folks at the margin, whose productivity would now no longer match wage payment, would, in most cases, be let go (unless he had a generous employer, with deep pockets).

 

Both sides of the argument over emphasize their points of view. Your left wing crowd is as laughable as the right wing's argument, that only looks at the math, and not the human element.

 

The CBO is about as neutral as you can get -- and their studies came out with the following:

 

But, reading further on into the article, the CBO's figures are challenged, with good arguments, saying only half a million jobs, not 1.4 million jobs would be lost. And that, overall, raising the minimum wage would be a good thing.

 

Maybe, in some situations. Not sure about 712 baht in Thailand -- not being a round figure draws attention to the methodology used in deriving that number, since there are so many questionable variables involved -- where a round number would highlight lack of definition in the methodology. So much for scientific logic..

 

Anyway, my argument was with the flat out statement from an apparent left leaning crowd that, "Jobs would be lost: FALSE." Obviously, an emotional jab, rooted in ideology, not economic common sense -- that even a music major could grasp as ludicrous.  And, when you list some of the contributors to this "theory," like Robert Reich, I realize where this logic, or lack thereof, originated.

 

So, raise the minimum wage to 712 baht -- and no jobs will be lost? You're sticking to this, based on some non scientific article you read on the Internet? Maybe you're not even a music major....

 

 

You are making this sound like there isn't a precedent to base this argument against when the reality is Thailand has done this before. In 2013 there was a 40% increase in the minimum wage from the Pheu Thai party with the usual predictions of economic collapse, runaway inflation, massive lay-offs, moving to Vietnam/Cambodia and business closures etc. The reality however was very different with none of the mass lay offs and companies heading overseas (some but not many) with many studies by economic institutes (Puey Ungphakorn Institute for Economic Research for example) showing, stable aggregate unemployment, no contraction in weekly working hours, no significant effect on small and medium enterprises and large industrial firms taking up job losses from other industries (https://www.pier.or.th/dp/041). 

 

The reasons are very simple; despite what everyone thinks of Thailand, it isn't really a particularly low cost base with the vast majority of manufacturing being in relatively high-end products (think cars, electrical and electronic appliances, automobile parts, machines and chemical products) so a wage hike only affects a very small percentage (roughly 15% of the working population). Secondly, in 2022, the average daily wage in the non-agricultural sector is 604.8 baht (Bank of Thailand data) which means again an increase to 712 Baht isn't going to break the bank (although I would predict a 600 thb rate is probably more doable). 

 

There will of course be some industries that will be affected (agriculture and textile and clothing industry for example) but you are either are a low-end market for cheap products or you move to a more 'middle class' basis with the resulting demand for more skilled labourers. The latter is what all governments want so moving to 600-700 baht minimum wage is only going to put off companies that would have probably gone to Vietnam, Cambodia, China etc anyway. A significent increase in the minimum wage therefore makes a great deal of sense (it is only 15k thb per month after all - many of the readers heres average bar bill I would suggest) and could help elevate Thailand to the 'Tiger' status of other countries such as Singapore, Hong Kong, South Korea, and Taiwan.

 

NB- some of this information was from Bangkok Post which AN doesn't allow links to. 

Edited May 4, 2023 by johnnybangkok

[sidneybear]

On 5/2/2023 at 5:42 PM, khunPer said:

Well, I'm from the highest taxed country in the World, yes "Number One", it's named Denmark. The situation there is: An income tax between 38% and 53% plus an extra income tax of 8% on your work-income. i.e., your income tax from work can be between 46% and 61%; 25% v.a.t. on all goods and services; 25-150% tax on new cars

That's outrageous. 

[BangkokReady]

Quote

Demand For 712 Baht Minimum Wage Nationwide At May Day Rally

"Demand For Half Of Workforce To Be Laid Off At May Day Rally"

[BangkokReady]

17 hours ago, JimGant said:

It doesn't take a genius to realize some jobs would be lost with an increase in minimum wage; so you can't flat out say FALSE about jobs being lost -- only about "how many". Folks at the margin, whose productivity would now no longer match wage payment, would, in most cases, be let go (unless he had a generous employer, with deep pockets).

It doesn't take long in Thailand, when looking at those businesses which employ people who are visible to the public, to see how often there are many more people employed than need to be.  Whether that is in a shop, a restaurant, or a building site, there are typically more people than are needed to complete whatever task it is that is being done.

 

I suppose we don't truly know if the employer is employing that many people because they like to have a buffer of bodies in case things get busy, they feel it is their civic duty to employ as many people as they can afford to, or if they simply view that as the norm.

 

It's quite likely, though, that if wages should double overnight, they might think about downsizing their workforce, since, to most, they appear to have an excess of employees.

[Joseph98765]

On 5/2/2023 at 1:16 PM, SoilSpoil said:

Raise to a 1,000 a day, collect income tax and improve society. CP's, and the likes of CP,  profit margins are criminal

And who do you think will finally pay that? next time you go to 7/11 and you buy a can of coke...it will cost you 75b

[SoilSpoil]

3 hours ago, Joseph98765 said:

And who do you think will finally pay that? next time you go to 7/11 and you buy a can of coke...it will cost you 75b

Then don't buy it at that price, it's bad for your health anyway. The cost price of a can of coke is maybe 5 baht, including transportation. It's idiotic marketing costs and profit margins that drive prices up. Sheer greed, nothing less. 

[zzaa09]

Let them eat Som Tam.....

[billd766]

On 5/2/2023 at 9:18 AM, 2009 said:

Hopefully, it doesn't happen.

Have you ever tried living on 370 to 400 baht a day and trying to keep a family as well?

 

Or are you living on farang pensions, which are generally much higher?

[2009]

34 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Have you ever tried living on 370 to 400 baht a day and trying to keep a family as well?

 

Or are you living on farang pensions, which are generally much higher?

I have not.

[473geo]

Here in Isaan if necessary people can eke out an existence as far as every day living on occasion with fish from the ponds and fields home grown rice, some vegetables, yes somtam, leaves and fruit from the trees, cook on an fire, no frills 40 baht a day would cover it 

In the cities different less self sufficiency

 

So why do we need wage hikes? 

 

To facilitate consumerism and enable people to pay purchase prices and repay loans generating profits for business ????

 

[zzaa09]

53 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Have you ever tried living on 370 to 400 baht a day and trying to keep a family as well?

 

Or are you living on farang pensions, which are generally much higher?

Sure.

Easier for Farang to speak of things they know nothing of. 

It's what they do.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, 2009 said:

I have not.

It is much easier to talk about it when you have a reasonable income, than it is to live with it as a reality.

[2009]

2 hours ago, zzaa09 said:

Sure.

Easier for Farang to speak of things they know nothing of. 

It's what they do.

Kind of a weird comment.

 

I don't think all farangs do this, like you say. Are you not farang? Oh, you're Thai now, got it.

 

And I've met plenty of Thais and other people who talk about things they know nothing of.

 

A Thai person once tried to educate me on bread.

Edited May 4, 2023 by 2009

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 hours ago, 473geo said:

Here in Isaan if necessary people can eke out an existence as far as every day living on occasion with fish from the ponds and fields home grown rice, some vegetables, yes somtam, leaves and fruit from the trees, cook on an fire, no frills 40 baht a day would cover it 

In the cities different less self sufficiency

 

So why do we need wage hikes? 

 

To facilitate consumerism and enable people to pay purchase prices and repay loans generating profits for business ????

 

Workers deserve more than just basic existence 

[2009]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

It is much easier to talk about it when you have a reasonable income, than it is to live with it as a reality.

Obviously,

 

But hey I'd still be on minimum wage too, if I didn't help myself earn more.

 

We seem to be on different pages here. You seem to think I should be concerned with other people's money.

Edited May 4, 2023 by 2009

[2009]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Workers deserve more than just basic existence 

But we have the great sufficiency economy.

[Mac Mickmanus]

2 minutes ago, 2009 said:

But we have the great sufficiency economy.

Are you a Westerner on an average income who, due to the exchange rate, is rather affluent in Thailand and you wouldn't want a higher minimum wage , because it would mean that you have to pay more of your money to Thais for services ?

[2009]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Are you a Westerner on an average income who, due to the exchange rate, is rather affluent in Thailand

Nope.

 

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

and you wouldn't want a higher minimum wage , because it would mean that you have to pay more of your money to Thais for services ?

Yes, partly, but mostly it's because I believe in a free market.

 

Not playing around with the economy or dangling a carrot ???? to win votes.

[ericthai]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:33 AM, Myran said:

Absolutely, and then watch half of all Thai companies go bankrupt or move elsewhere in a few months, leaving millions without jobs.

like what happened in the USA and all those companies that moved to China due to higher wages, insurance etc

[mommysboy]

No good spouting 19th century economics that never ever worked.  

 

I don't know the answer but there is terrible wealth inequality, so some how that needs to be addressed. 

 

It can't go on.  Effectively, we have zombie businesses being propped up by the already poor. Tht's obscene in my view.

 

Better to admit the economy is utterly shot.

[johnnybangkok]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

No good spouting 19th century economics that never ever worked.  

 

I don't know the answer but there is terrible wealth inequality, so some how that needs to be addressed. 

 

It can't go on.  Effectively, we have zombie businesses being propped up by the already poor. Tht's obscene in my view.

 

Better to admit the economy is utterly shot.

Yeah let’s just give up. 
Or we could close tax loopholes In VERY obvious places where the obscenely rich hide their wealth. Once repatriated we could tax at 80% to teach them not to <deleted>$k with the tax man (who inmost countries have more power than any Police, FBI or intelligence service). 
You can still tax them at at least 60% IF they fess up. 20% difference is huge to them. I guarantee if given the choice of 60% tax legit ANYWHERE in the world, they’ll pay.
If all western economies joined together it could happen. If my mother had wheels she’d be a bike. 
 

[473geo]

15 hours ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Workers deserve more than just basic existence 

How many Thai have gone out bought a new truck which has channelled their lifestyle down the basic existence track for the foreseeable future ????

 

Level of expectation is not fuelled by minimum wage rises 

Edited May 5, 2023 by 473geo