How do farmers survive in Isaan

[jaideedave]

1 hour ago, sirineou said:

I hear your frustration, we have some rice fields we  inherited from my wife's father, and we lease then to her uncles because it is not worth  the effort. They give us a little money to cover expenses and some rice .

 If you don't want to do that,I have been told that if you don't want to pay higher taxes in your land because it is uncultivated, to plant Bananas. 

Not sure how true it is because I have not tried it myself, but don't you wonder why all these empty lots around town have banana trees in them? 

As a matter of fact not far from my house was a large empty field.Last year they planted dozens of banana trees.It was because its taxed at a lower rate.Its true. It makes sense because once in the ground they don't need tending.

[sirineou]

13 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Yes plenty of banana plots in our area. I wanted to try grapes but the soil isn't right and you would have to be on guard day and night.

I Planted two grape vines at my play , 1 Rai farm , where I spend 10,000 tbh to grow 1,000tbh worth vegetables ????

 Only a few months now and they are not doing well. They started out well and then something ate all the leaves. They are beginning to sprout and I will spray them with something to keep pests off, but with all the rain we will be getting I am not sure if the insecticide will wash off. 

The point about bananas is that they are low maintenance. and inexpensive.  You don't even care if they die.

No law about being a bad farmer ????

[BangkokReady]

I assume handouts from the government and payments from daughters in the cities.

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

Your figures are so far out its laughable. Someone is having you over a barrel.

 

Also, 30bt scheme in hospitals covers everything. Even accidents.

 

If your accident happens to be a motoring accident, you also have Por Ror Bor insurance.

I beg to disagree except for por ror bor

[youreavinalaff]

11 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I beg to disagree except for por ror bor

Disagree all you like.

 

Just look it up. You'll soon change your mind.

[Lacessit]

2 hours ago, soalbundy said:

All my vegetables get eaten by insects but my mango trees produce giant mangoes which serve me as breakfast. I haven't worked since I was 57, I never regretted taking early retirement, working is for horses.

It depends on whether the work is enjoyable and creative.

I can understand people working under high pressure or in boring jobs would feel that way.

I loved my work, would still be doing it at 80 if age discrimination was not an insurmountable obstacle.

Perhaps some Isaan farmers feel the same way about retiring.

[spidermike007]

I don't hear many good things about growing rice, and would never engage in that kind of sustenance crop growing. So many more progressive crops out there. If you take some time to convert the soil, there are so many crops that are more profitable, and better for the environment. Rice has to be at the bottom of the list. Great to eat, horrible to grow.
 

[LogicThai]

12 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

I don't hear many good things about growing rice, and would never engage in that kind of sustenance crop growing. So many more progressive crops out there. If you take some time to convert the soil, there are so many crops that are more profitable, and better for the environment. Rice has to be at the bottom of the list. Great to eat, horrible to grow.
 

It really depends where one tries to grow rice. There are very suitable areas, where one can grow 2 or 3 crops per year. Unfortunately, most of Thailand is not in that case. Rice growing is labour-intensive but requires limited skills, which suits the Issaan area of the country well, despite not having the best soil for that, because it has/had plenty of unskilled people.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, LogicThai said:

Why would the 30 baht scheme not cover accidents? AFAIK, be it the universal healthcare cover of the SSO, all medic al needs are covered. It is true that the level of care in public hospitals looks spartan by European standards, but I was under the impression that pretty much all conditions are treated. My father-in-law had a heart scare recently, he was rushed to the public hospital in the Amphoe and adequately treated there, then referred to the central hospital of the province for further tests etc. I offered to have him treated at the private hospital instead, but he declined, and I agreed because the private hospital (Ekachon) does not really look any better. My in-laws have life insurance, but no private healthcare insurance. They have been treated for illness and accident in the public system in the past, quite satisfactorily it seems. I remember that my mother-in-law went private on one occasion for some ailment she had, and then declared that it was a waste of money.

 

As for the economics of farming, it is true that rice farming has become totally unattractive in recent years, to the point on being unsustainable. As they advanced in age, my in-laws have adjusted accordingly. First, they stopped farming on leased land, then they sold the portion of land they could not farm themselves anymore. They diversified (rubber, manioc, sugarcane) and now they only grow rice for their own consumption (and ours…). They also gave up on cattle, but not for economic reasons. Surprisingly enough, my mother-in-law developed a candy-making business that seems amazingly lucrative.

I am not well versed in agro-economics, but it looks to me that Thailand is no different from other countries. Farming beyond subsistence is not attractive anymore, if it ever was. Like elsewhere, global trade suffocates the least-productive. Issaan farming never was particularly competitive, but it was protected by subsidies, tariffs, a ban on foreign seeds etc. Contrary to what happened in Europe among others, Thai farmers never seem to have recognized the value of unionizing, creating cooperatives, captive banks, etc., so that an entire ecosystem of traders and intermediaries capture whatever added value is produced. 
 

I must apologize, 30 Baht scheme does cover for accidents says my wife. I got that from the village clinic nurse, she treated me for a burnt hand once without payment (I think it's a village thing if you live there) when I asked if this was covered by the 30 Baht scheme, she said I wouldn't be covered for an accident under that scheme, she obviously meant because I was a farang it didn't apply to me anyway.

[youreavinalaff]

3 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I must apologize, 30 Baht scheme does cover for accidents says my wife. I got that from the village clinic nurse, she treated me for a burnt hand once without payment (I think it's a village thing if you live there) when I asked if this was covered by the 30 Baht scheme, she said I wouldn't be covered for an accident under that scheme, she obviously meant because I was a farang it didn't apply to me anyway.

If you are " farang" 30bt scheme doesn't cover you at all in hospitals.

 

If your wife has registered you under your house number at the local clinic, you will be treated free. That includes any medication given to take home.

[Tropicalevo]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I ask myself how on earth do the Thais manage to even just live from day to day.

That is why a lot of young ladies from Isaan headed south to work.

They work in various 'industries' and sent money home every month to their families. Hoping eventually to meet and marry a rich foreigner.

20 years ago, all of my staff were from Isaan. (Cleaning business.)

Now, staff are mostly local, Surat, Nakhon etc

[Hummin]

all the farmers around us have children working in the cities or abroad. Latest a teacher working chicken farm in Korea on a 5 year contract.  They all sending money back home to their parents and supporting them.

 

we do not pay tax on Por Bor Thor 5 land in our district. 

 

 

 

[JimTripper]

1 hour ago, jaideedave said:

As a matter of fact not far from my house was a large empty field.Last year they planted dozens of banana trees.It was because its taxed at a lower rate.Its true. It makes sense because once in the ground they don't need tending.

There was a big empty lot near my place in Bangkok that planted banana trees on it. Now I know why. I thought it was because the neighbors complained that it was unsightly ????????‍♂️.

[LogicThai]

13 minutes ago, youreavinalaff said:

If you are " farang" 30bt scheme doesn't cover you at all in hospitals.

 

If your wife has registered you under your house number at the local clinic, you will be treated free. That includes any medication given to take home.

But then presumably the said Farang needs to be on the Tabien Baan for that house number, which cannot be the regular blue TB, it has to be the Yellow TB for foreigners.

[hotandsticky]

3 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

But then presumably the said Farang needs to be on the Tabien Baan for that house number, which cannot be the regular blue TB, it has to be the Yellow TB for foreigners.

I guess that is why the poster referred to being registered at that address. 
 

That is how you get the blue house registration book.

[VinnieK]

3 hours ago, soalbundy said:

One way of looking at it but since the house in Isaan is in our sons name and my legal wife has transferred the chanode of the house in Chiang Mai to my son (complicated reason why) plus 50% of the farmland is also in my sons name I can't do much else.

Is he your real son or stepson?

It seems you are in a lot of trouble for a 70 plus guy.

I suggest a runner..????

[youreavinalaff]

16 minutes ago, LogicThai said:

But then presumably the said Farang needs to be on the Tabien Baan for that house number, which cannot be the regular blue TB, it has to be the Yellow TB for foreigners.

No need to be on house registration. 

 

Not sure how it works but guess it's something to do with the fact Pu Yai Baan comes round checking who lives where, from time to time.

 

I've seen the file in the local clinic. It had our house number on it along with the names of my wife, myself and our daughter.

Edited June 4, 2023 by youreavinalaff

[soalbundy]

47 minutes ago, VinnieK said:

Is he your real son or stepson?

It seems you are in a lot of trouble for a 70 plus guy.

I suggest a runner..????

He's my biological son, I have also bonded with my two stepdaughters and 4 step grandchildren, I don't see myself as being in trouble, just the opposite, I've never been so content.

[Robin]

When wife and I moved to Phayao years ago, she had some land, bought and inherited, and growing rice.

She wanted me to buy more land.  I asked questions as to value of rice grown on land, and did basic 'return on equity' calculations.  Quickly realised that I could get more money with no effort investing my money elsewhere.

How many potential buyers, Thai or Farang ever bother with this?

We have since bought land but only near the village and with road access, and made money by selling off plots for housebuilding.  Now stopped doing this, as i do not need any more money and values keep going up.

Village Thais do not appear to have much , if any, knowledge o financial planning, which is why so many schemes go wrong and the owner ends up in debt.  I do not think that Banks are much help, only wanting to get their loan books full.

I am sure that very few Thai farmers know how much their rice crop costs them, or if they make any money from it.  Nor do they want to be told this, or how to grow rice more efficiently.

[Purdey]

Looks like rice farming is a waste of time unless you have a rice mill. That's where the money is. I visited several royally-initiated projects and the officers there did explain that rice is the lowest price crop so they teach people to plant other things.

Some farmers (and schools!) have a decent vegetable garden, chickens, maybe some pigs. Their idea is to be self sufficient and not rely on rice for all their income.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Purdey

[4MyEgo]

8 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I was told that if the fields were left unused the ground tax was even higher and tax had to be payed whether she planted or not. The wife's mother recently gave all her land to the wife (in addition to her 230 rai) although I begged her not to, because since her husband died she doesn't want the burden of land taxes and rice planting,

 

If all of the above is true, then your wife would be better off selling the land wouldn't she.

 

8 hours ago, soalbundy said:

since I pay the land tax monthly I'm now saddled with it.

Now there would be a good reason that she doesn't sell the land, get ting tong (respectfully) to pay for it.

 

When I first came here, my wife used to go and help her parents, with workers do the rice thing, she would pay for them ALL to eat, drink etc.

 

I said to her one day, look at you, your like an Aborigine, gone from morning to night killing yourself for what. Her reply was, we eat rice from their fields, and the land will be split up with her and her sisters when they pass on, sorted I said, you either buy the rice directly from them, Lotus, Makro, or Big C, and you don't need the land. 

 

She hasn't helped them do the rice thing for at least 5 years now, and couldn't give a rat$ about the land, suffice to say, she was the light.

 

As for land taxes, never heard of them paying one baht, and they have a heck of a lot of land, I know they sell a lot of the rice and keep enough to eat for the year, hardly any money made out of it, I know that much, a bit like their rubber plantations, hardly worth it as well when you take into account the fertilizer they put down every 3 months, pay people to sap it, but I suppose when your older, had pretty much no schooling and know no other alternative, you keep swimming.

 

Guess the wife is lucky I came along and swept her off of her feet with my ATM charms ???? 

 

My biggest rule here is I never get involved with the agricultural side of things or support my wife financially in her own land matters, she has her own rice fields, rubber plantations, I know this much, it's pretty much pocket money, the rest is on me.

[EVENKEEL]

The time I spent there I'd pay the planting and harvesting fees for 6 rai, making money wasn't the main reason, simply having a food source for a year was. And I think it's a source of pride.

[GreasyFingers]

4 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

So many more progressive crops out there.

You are looking too much at Youtube. Plenty of things to grow but no local markets in regional Thailand at a profitable price.

How do I know, by the losses over 2 years of my dear wife growing them.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

If all of the above is true, then your wife would be better off selling the land wouldn't she.

 

Now there would be a good reason that she doesn't sell the land, get ting tong (respectfully) to pay for it.

 

When I first came here, my wife used to go and help her parents, with workers do the rice thing, she would pay for them ALL to eat, drink etc.

 

I said to her one day, look at you, your like an Aborigine, gone from morning to night killing yourself for what. Her reply was, we eat rice from their fields, and the land will be split up with her and her sisters when they pass on, sorted I said, you either buy the rice directly from them, Lotus, Makro, or Big C, and you don't need the land. 

 

She hasn't helped them do the rice thing for at least 5 years now, and couldn't give a rat$ about the land, suffice to say, she was the light.

 

As for land taxes, never heard of them paying one baht, and they have a heck of a lot of land, I know they sell a lot of the rice and keep enough to eat for the year, hardly any money made out of it, I know that much, a bit like their rubber plantations, hardly worth it as well when you take into account the fertilizer they put down every 3 months, pay people to sap it, but I suppose when your older, had pretty much no schooling and know no other alternative, you keep swimming.

 

Guess the wife is lucky I came along and swept her off of her feet with my ATM charms ???? 

 

My biggest rule here is I never get involved with the agricultural side of things or support my wife financially in her own land matters, she has her own rice fields, rubber plantations, I know this much, it's pretty much pocket money, the rest is on me.

 

2 hours ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

If all of the above is true, then your wife would be better off selling the land wouldn't she.

 

Now there would be a good reason that she doesn't sell the land, get ting tong (respectfully) to pay for it.

 

When I first came here, my wife used to go and help her parents, with workers do the rice thing, she would pay for them ALL to eat, drink etc.

 

I said to her one day, look at you, your like an Aborigine, gone from morning to night killing yourself for what. Her reply was, we eat rice from their fields, and the land will be split up with her and her sisters when they pass on, sorted I said, you either buy the rice directly from them, Lotus, Makro, or Big C, and you don't need the land. 

 

She hasn't helped them do the rice thing for at least 5 years now, and couldn't give a rat$ about the land, suffice to say, she was the light.

 

As for land taxes, never heard of them paying one baht, and they have a heck of a lot of land, I know they sell a lot of the rice and keep enough to eat for the year, hardly any money made out of it, I know that much, a bit like their rubber plantations, hardly worth it as well when you take into account the fertilizer they put down every 3 months, pay people to sap it, but I suppose when your older, had pretty much no schooling and know no other alternative, you keep swimming.

 

Guess the wife is lucky I came along and swept her off of her feet with my ATM charms ???? 

 

My biggest rule here is I never get involved with the agricultural side of things or support my wife financially in her own land matters, she has her own rice fields, rubber plantations, I know this much, it's pretty much pocket money, the rest is on me.

Land for a Thai is like the gold necklace, it is a source of potential wealth or security. At 75 it doesn't interest me except for my son. My wife is extremely ambitious for his higher education and if I die before he is finished then I know that some of that land will be sold for a university education. She has put one daughter through uni by selling some land she had for a building in the village.

 

One shouldn't be too arrogant regarding the Thai farmers, after all they have built their own houses, raised their own families and paid for their kids education, many to technician level with the sweat of their brow and all done before Mr. Farang came on the scene. They still own the land that has been in their families for generations so a little respect wouldn't come amiss.

[Reginald Prewster]

18 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I haven't worked since I was 57, I never regretted taking early retirement, working is for horses.

Just some consultancy jobs no bone jarring anymore.

The problem is that I need to step out slowly and understand I am 60.

I traveled 42 years and visited till today 57 countries in the world, so I can't just stop from one day to the other.

 

2020 I made an attempt to retire (hence 57 same like you @soalbundy) but a new project lured me with a day rate that most people can only dream of. 

But its an easy going job, gliding worktimes, Saturday and Sunday off where I make tours with my Gogoro all around Taiwan... (defo the last Country I visit, because now I start missing my wife, friends and my farm in Isaan...)   

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, soalbundy said:

They still own the land that has been in their families for generations so a little respect wouldn't come amiss.

No disrespect intended.

 

9 hours ago, soalbundy said:

One shouldn't be too arrogant regarding the Thai farmers, after all they have built their own houses, raised their own families and paid for their kids education, many to technician level with the sweat of their brow and all done before Mr. Farang came on the scene.

Agree, and many girls have sold their souls so that their parents can show off to their neighbours, "look at me now".

 

Many a girl have also played many farangs, cleaning them out of just about everything they had for false love and lots of stories.

 

I don't consider myself arrogant towards Thai farmers or Thai's at all, but I also look at both sides of the coins and trust NO one, my wife I do, but my finances are a totally separate matter because, well, you should know the rest, i.e. I will never fall victim to a female over my own stupidity by showering her with $'s, treat them mean, keep them lean as the saying goes.

She has had a great life the past 16 years with me and has no complaints.

 

Her family in the other hand do it tough, but then again, I didn't marry her family, I respect them as my in-laws and help out on medical bills, the odd new car battery for Dad, Mum's specs, etc, no loans as I never asked anyone for a loan apart from a bank, and that I am not.

 

I understand where your coming from regarding the kid, however, I don't believe in the education game, I believe in educating my kids up to high school, the rest I do and have already told them where they are heading business wise (self employment), never to be slaves to others.

[TimeMachine]

The human race has the ability to sort these problems out. Self sufficiency idea is one one that is talked about a bit and especially by the previous King. Farming rice for the people to eat. Seems like what could go wrong?  Humanity gone to the crapper. Humanity killing humanity. Greed, selfishness, me me me. Imagine if all farmers around the world united ,  protested and stopped production for one year. Teach humanity a lesson.

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, Reginald Prewster said:

Just some consultancy jobs no bone jarring anymore.

The problem is that I need to step out slowly and understand I am 60.

I traveled 42 years and visited till today 57 countries in the world, so I can't just stop from one day to the other.

 

2020 I made an attempt to retire (hence 57 same like you @soalbundy) but a new project lured me with a day rate that most people can only dream of. 

But its an easy going job, gliding worktimes, Saturday and Sunday off where I make tours with my Gogoro all around Taiwan... (defo the last Country I visit, because now I start missing my wife, friends and my farm in Isaan...)   

That's great, nothing wrong with working at something you like doing and you are hardly decrepit at 60. I liked my job and the pay was good but I was glad to be rid of the stress. As one approaches retirement  with introspection it starts to become apparent you were just a cog in the machine, working to keep yourself fed and warm. There is a whole world out there (which you have seen a lot of) and I felt it's time to let go of safety. When I was young I hitch hiked all over Europe, starting in winter heading North, I was in Lappland with snow up to my waist, time I thought, to rekindle that spirit of adventure. 

[Celsius]

I used to be married to a girl from the South (Surat Thani). She worked in Bangkok for Siemens BTS project and her family had a big plot of land where they were growing fruit, rubber trees and Chicken. Her family was pretty well off, but every time I visited they lived quite modest. Old house, smallest car you can buy and they never really showed off with stuff and things. The only thing they invested money was my ex-wife's education in Bangkok and the University was by all means pretty standard, nothing hiso. When we got married her parents also bought us land and built a small house as a present. So in all they were quite nice, not greedy and level headed. I normally hate the life in the village, but I actually liked going there for a visit as everyone always seemed to be enjoying themselves with just simple basic things. It looked like something out of a storybook.

 

So, I do wonder is this money issue is only Isaan problem and with certain demographic. 

 

 

 

 

[NorthernRyland]

20 hours ago, soalbundy said:

they considered it too cheap and said that eventually big concerns will try to buy land on the highways in Isaan and pay a lot more, I almost broke my dentures while gnashing in anger.

There's always some filthy rich person from BKK coming to pay absurd amounts of money for your little plot of worthless land. I think the gambling culture has really rotted peoples brains.