Residents refusing to pay maintenance in gated village.

[Guderian]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

So, how did you deal with the non-payers, or did the payers keep on supporting them?

 

When the outstanding money is sufficient to make it worthwhile, given the legal fees, we take them individually to court. It's expensive and time-consuming, but what else can the management and committee do? We looked at the options like denying their vehicles access, or cutting off their power, but those actions are illegal. Sure, we can stop collecting their garbage, but that usually inconveniences all the neighbours who do pay their fees, so it's not a great option. The village provides a great level of service for just 900 Baht/month, including free access for residents to a large swimming pool. Yet some people still seem to think it's not worth paying it, even though they know that eventually they will be forced to by the courts. The pathetic fine mandated by the Land Act simply isn't any kind of deterrent. Maybe they should change it to the usual Thai menu of options: a penalty of 10% of the outstanding balance, or 8 years in prison, or both. That might get them to cough up, lol

[jimn]

20 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

Don't collect the garbage from non payers

 

Thats unworkable as it will build up and stick and attract rats.

[giddyup]

5 minutes ago, Guderian said:

 

When the outstanding money is sufficient to make it worthwhile, given the legal fees, we take them individually to court. It's expensive and time-consuming, but what else can the management and committee do? We looked at the options like denying their vehicles access, or cutting off their power, but those actions are illegal. Sure, we can stop collecting their garbage, but that usually inconveniences all the neighbours who do pay their fees, so it's not a great option. The village provides a great level of service for just 900 Baht/month, including free access for residents to a large swimming pool. Yet some people still seem to think it's not worth paying it, even though they know that eventually they will be forced to by the courts. The pathetic fine mandated by the Land Act simply isn't any kind of deterrent. Maybe they should change it to the usual Thai menu of options: a penalty of 10% of the outstanding balance, or 8 years in prison, or both. That might get them to cough up, lol

If the cost of recovering the outstanding debt is outweighed by the legal costs then it's a no win situation. Even if it forces the resident to cough up what's owed, there might still be an ongoing refusal to pay, then the whole process has to be repeated.

Edited December 7, 2023 by giddyup

[jimn]

2 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Being a renter you don't need to worry about these issues or the deadbeats who don't pay their yearly maintenance fees. Just another reason not to be an owner here in Thailand, in addition to the many others.

You are effected just as much as a renter as an owner. Dont you care if security disappears, bins dont get emptied, swimming pool closes and the roads don't get swept?

[ravip]

35 minutes ago, freeworld said:

Love of money, wealth and baubles all promoted and condoned by govts and a sense of entitlement has caused all of this.

Agree 100%.

Unfortunately, this has dribbled down to the lowest strata of society; and now we ALL think I am the greatest, you are not! - that's the attitude.

Majority of politicians are the scum of the earth.... but why does not the average human understand this?

(no, I am not referring to ONLY Thailand - its the entire planet!)

[bbi1]

22 minutes ago, jimn said:

You are effected just as much as a renter as an owner. Dont you care if security disappears, bins dont get emptied, swimming pool closes and the roads don't get swept?

Not gonna happen where I'm renting. There's about 8 security guards, bins are emptied twice a day (should be more as sometime's it's overflowing) and the roads at the condo gets swept of leaves daily by 4 Burmese workers.

[Toby1947]

21 hours ago, giddyup said:

No, some falang (German) and some Thai.

That's why I wouldn't buy a box of matches in Thailand. Not to worry the rubbish buildings will be falling down within 5yrs. Then your maintenance problems Will be over 

[giddyup]

17 minutes ago, Toby1947 said:

That's why I wouldn't buy a box of matches in Thailand. Not to worry the rubbish buildings will be falling down within 5yrs. Then your maintenance problems Will be over 

Already been in our house 13 years, still standing.

[sammieuk1]

22 hours ago, giddyup said:

I've lived in a gated village of 35 houses on the darkside for 13 years. During that time there has been the odd non payer, but now we have 8 houses that are refusing to pay maintenance. So now we are fast approaching the situation where there won't be enough funds to pay for security, pool maintenance, lighting and road sweeping.

AFAIK there is no way to force these parasites to pay.

Anyone else having a similar problem in their village?

Similar problem here in HH everyone got a letter as mass non payment this year, then a second letter if you don't pay! no rubbish collection any delivery's won't get past the gatehouse barrier your cardkey will be cut off.

 

The next door village failed to collect from mainly Chinese and part finished houses and now no security guard, barrier and all street lights cut off  🤔

[Ralf001]

1 hour ago, jimn said:

Thats unworkable as it will build up and stick and attract rats.

Thats why you have the garbage collection people take the garbage of those who paid and the ones that did not pay throw their garbage back into their property.

[ravip]

1 hour ago, Toby1947 said:

That's why I wouldn't buy a box of matches in Thailand. Not to worry the rubbish buildings will be falling down within 5yrs. Then your maintenance problems Will be over 

Well... you should never have come to Thailand.

Why not stay in your own perfect country?

[newnative]

49 minutes ago, Toby1947 said:

That's why I wouldn't buy a box of matches in Thailand. Not to worry the rubbish buildings will be falling down within 5yrs. Then your maintenance problems Will be over 

     Well, it used to be, according to a poster on the Forum, that Thai buildings would go crashing to the ground at 30 years of age.  Then, another poster said, no, wrong, they only last 20 years.  Now, here you are, giving just 5 years before they will be, in you words, 'falling down'.  Utter rubbish, from all three of you.  Spouse and I have lived in condo projects over 30 years old, nearly 20 years old, and the rest all over 5 years old by now and they are all doing fine.  

[ravip]

In these undeveloped,3rd world countries this is the norm...

Why are the developed perfect humans parking themselves in these terrible places?

Please don't whinge after downgrading yourself - THAT is youe current status.

Edited December 7, 2023 by ravip

[thailand49]

7 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

 

The 49%/51% thing is only a condo thing, not moo bans.

 

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.  Rest of my statement still stand. I live on the darkside and found many projects have this problem if not worse.

[NanLaew]

22 hours ago, Pattaya57 said:

Not gated village but Condo. We had many non-payers for years, getting worse every year. Our Juristic just wasn't pushing it hard enough, just sending reminder emails.

 

We then appointed a new Juristic who followed the law as written. It's still a long process with legal letters being sent and late fee interest being formally charged, followed by water and electricity disconnection.  Eventually people got the message and started paying on time.

 

This should be a very heated topic at your AGM's

 

 

I rented a villa on the "dark side" that had transitioned from developer to home-owner's association (HOA) in the months prior to my lease. I observed that involvement was slow (as usual) but garbage collection was the first service to be withdrawn from the few homes that weren't willing to pay for the service. Some of the cheapskates, a mix of Thai and farang, would rather remove their waste using their own vehicles or pay a third party to come and collect it rather than pay the community fees.

 

When the HOA opted to install a full-service 24-hour security system with a card-activated barrier, the 'lock-out' got easier to enforce but I did see a local resident in a late model BMW trying the 'do you know who I am?' malarkey with the guard.

 

22 hours ago, giddyup said:

I very much doubt if that was either legal or could be enforced.

 

The HOA needs to engage with a lawyer and have legal protections. For example, posting the names of the non-compliant home-owners is a fast-track to defamation charges, whereas identifying the delinquent properties by house number or more anonymously as red-colored blocks on a map of the village is more difficult to challenge while havuing the same effect, ie. "We know who you are".

[Chris Daley]

It could be the house owner / landlady that isn't paying.  I paid my fees on time every month and then one day they said they were missing some.  I sent a message to the landlady and she said she will sort it out.

 

They would even come to the front of our house and shout her name.  My gf said she doesn't live here.  We also had some debt collectors come around looking for her.

 

Please contact the home owner not the person renting it.  There is a chance the Thai people are keeping the money.

Edited December 7, 2023 by Chris Daley

[giddyup]

28 minutes ago, ravip said:

In these undeveloped,3rd world countries this is the norm...

Why are the developed perfect humans parking themselves in these terrible places?

Please don't whinge after downgrading yourself - THAT is youe current status.

There are scumbags wherever you live in the world, probably more in developed countries.

[couchpotato]

2 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Not gonna happen where I'm renting. There's about 8 security guards, bins are emptied twice a day (should be more as sometime's it's overflowing) and the roads at the condo gets swept of leaves daily by 4 Burmese workers.

This thread is about moobaans (villages) not Condos..different animal.

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, giddyup said:

If the cost of recovering the outstanding debt is outweighed by the legal costs then it's a no win situation. Even if it forces the resident to cough up what's owed, there might still be an ongoing refusal to pay, then the whole process has to be repeated.

Is it possible to award costs to the loser of a civil case? If the delinquents were hit with that, on top of an order to pay outstanding debts, it might make them think. 

[jimn]

19 hours ago, Ralf001 said:

Thats why you have the garbage collection people take the garbage of those who paid and the ones that did not pay throw their garbage back into their property.

Stupid reply thats just going to escalate into something out of control

[jimn]

20 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Not gonna happen where I'm renting. There's about 8 security guards, bins are emptied twice a day (should be more as sometime's it's overflowing) and the roads at the condo gets swept of leaves daily by 4 Burmese workers.

You miss my point. You said that if you rent you are not affected by people not paying their fees. Owners and renters are both affected. Maybe where you rent everyone pays so it dont affect you. I am lucky. I bought my house with my wife 10 years ago with a lifetimr transferable maintenace fee associated with the purchase.

[stoner]

i mean are you at all surprised ? all over thailand you can see what used to be gated communities etc and they are all now virtually the same. dumps. 

 

the entitlement here is gross. 

[PJ71]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:57 PM, jimn said:

You are effected just as much as a renter as an owner. Dont you care if security disappears, bins dont get emptied, swimming pool closes and the roads don't get swept?

No, coz he moves to a decent compound where everyone pays their fees.

[PJ71]

On 12/7/2023 at 3:07 PM, Ralf001 said:

Thats why you have the garbage collection people take the garbage of those who paid and the ones that did not pay throw their garbage back into their property.

Who's gonna instruct the garbage collectors to do this?

 

Who's gonna throw the non payers garbage back in their garden?

 

 

[PJ71]

4 hours ago, stoner said:

i mean are you at all surprised ? all over thailand you can see what used to be gated communities etc and they are all now virtually the same. dumps. 

 

the entitlement here is gross. 

How many gated communities have you visited?

 

I've lived in several that were very well run and certainly not 'dumps', perhaps these ones are outwith your budget?

 

If it's the Thai Thai style ones you're on about, then i agree, total s h i t boxes for sure.

[stoner]

8 minutes ago, PJ71 said:

How many gated communities have you visited?

 

I've lived in several that were very well run and certainly not 'dumps', perhaps these ones are outwith your budget?

 

If it's the Thai Thai style ones you're on about, then i agree, total s h i t boxes for sure.

 

quite a few. i didn't mean all. i mean many of the older ones that end up having the same thing happen as the OP is talking about. they all eventually turn into dumps. 

 

yes obviously there are communities that upkeep and its people are quite happy

[jimn]

8 hours ago, PJ71 said:

No, coz he moves to a decent compound where everyone pays their fees.

You miss my point as well. The fact he is a renter not an owner is irrelevant.

[DavisH]

On 12/6/2023 at 5:08 PM, couchpotato said:

If the Village is registered as a 'Juristic Entity' then they can be taken to Court, and in some cases the house can not be sold until arrears are paid.

If the Village provide water to each house from a common village tank (as in the earlier years of moobaans), then water can be cut off to individual houses, but as another poster said, if the water and electric is provided through meters from the government, then it is illegal to touch those meters, even if the Village is Juristic.

Yes rubbish collection could be stopped for those houses, but in the end it affects other houses also with smells, rats etc, so not a great solution.

Also legally a resident can not be stopped from entering the village if they own a home. Many villages try this tactic with non payers but it leads to police visits and sometimes other nasty circumstances.

It is conundrum for many villages.

I think the Juristiy Entity is what we have in operation in our village - that was voted on many years ago, where the majority of residented supported it. I don't think we have mnay non payers as we have garbage collection, grass is being constantly cut, and roads swept past my house several times a day. For ym hosue its a bit over 20K a year, so well worth it. 

[Banana7]

On 12/7/2023 at 1:49 PM, giddyup said:

If the cost of recovering the outstanding debt is outweighed by the legal costs then it's a no win situation. Even if it forces the resident to cough up what's owed, there might still be an ongoing refusal to pay, then the whole process has to be repeated.

Not true. The legal costs can also be recovered from the loser. Also, if the loser refuses to pay, the property can be sold by court order to recover all costs.

[PJ71]

5 hours ago, jimn said:

You miss my point as well. The fact he is a renter not an owner is irrelevant.

It's totally relevant, he's many more options if he's only renting, it makes things much easier.