Angry reactions as foreign couple's car crash leaves injured rider abandoned in Phuket

[fulhamster]

22 hours ago, stoner said:

Somchai will top it up for 200b

And add 100 km while changing all your sound system settings

[stoner]

19 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

his speed was in the range of 50-60.

 

this is an educated guess by an expert on this matter. anyone else have 35 years working in this field ? 

 

the video clearly shows that the bike in question was going much faster than the other people in the video. 

 

speed of bike can be calculated....

 

22 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

then he or she will start the basic forensics, are there any skid marks if so they will be measured, the depth of the dent impact into the vehicle, the distance the biker was thrown, etc., etc.

will determine the speed of the biker.

 

had the rider not been speeding and breaking the law the accident in all likely hood would never of happened. 

 

as i said in my original comment the blame should be shared. both idiots are at fault. 

[JulesMad]

Name and shame Mercedes driver! I hope he has a lot of damage to his small-dick car!!

[richard_smith237]

8 minutes ago, stoner said:

 

this is an educated guess by an expert on this matter. anyone else have 35 years working in this field ? 

 

the video clearly shows that the bike in question was going much faster than the other people in the video. 

 

speed of bike can be calculated....

 

I don't know how people are seeing it this way -  for the very brief interval the motorcyclist is in frame, it appears to be travelling at a similar speed to the three-wheeler and other motorcycle that passed before it. 

 

How to calculate the speed with any accuracy from such a short interval (needs software ?) - the motorcycle remains in frame for 0:07 second mark. 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, stoner said:

had the rider not been speeding and breaking the law the accident in all likely hood would never of happened. 

 

as i said in my original comment the blame should be shared. both idiots are at fault. 

 

This falls on the assumption that the motorcyclist was speeding - I think its too difficult to know that.

 

I'd agree that the motorcyclist could have been more defensive and hit the brakes earlier as soon as the car initiates the turn which could have prevented impact. 

 

But, I don't think blame should be shared at all - this looks to be 100% the car drivers fault for turning into oncoming traffic. 

 

 

 

[stevenl]

37 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

You seem to be angry and so defensive about something!

 

I was associated with the Dept of Transportation for over 35 years.  I had the privilege and fortune of many years learning from their seminars and my association the same with the California Hwy Patrol with their ride-along. Although it was never my intention to be riding a motorbike I had the opportunity from my involvement to train to operate a motorbike properly.

 

In my association with these two organizations, I learned some fundamentals at accident scenes nearly all cadets for law enforcement will be given these basics training to apply to at least determine the cause until the real forensic expert shows up and does their reports. Now living 20 years I seriously doubt the huge majority of police even can figure out 2 plus 2 is 4, sorry if those reading feel this is Thai bashing. In many of the cases, I rode along after listening to the expert you can already develop your assumption which I always kept to myself unless I was asked by the officers I being a guest.

 

In this particular case, I watch the video and one doesn't have to be there to express an observation from my experience. What do we have you or I will never see the report so what are we left with  " Assumption " Here is mine!

 

Before the vehicle comes into the picture you will notice 3 motorbikes, a single rider, then a sidecar, then another single rider traveling in the opposite direction observe their movement or speed by gauging their surroundings when the vehicle comes into the picture and make the right turn from the video whatever " right away " vehicles coming towards the vehicle had is gone the vehicle has taken 100% and more if one looks at the front vehicle it is over the solid white line on the side of the road. Yes, even in Thailand there is such a thing as " right of way " and there is such a thing it can be taken from observing this Soi the speed limit should be around 30 KM/H with a 10 KM/L lead max of 40 KM/L.  Now take a good look when the vehicle has made the right it stops at the solid line the driver in my opinion based on stopping sees the biker coming and freezes thereafter no more than 3 seconds before the biker comes into the picture those 3 seconds add up that his speed was in the range of 50-60.

 

Compare those three seconds to the previous 3 bikers traveling past this point the same distance. You watch the picture and enter the picture from the video there is no attempt to slow down, avoid, or lay the bike down which is the proper training whenever one knows that is the final alternative. The biker from the video looks like they intentionally decided to just slam into the vehicle on purpose.

 

Police here have no training. Where I'm from ride along if a first responder officer looking at the accident first attends to the hurt rider then he views the accident and knows within minutes a general picture as to what happened. He will speak to witnesses, the car driver passenger to check and align the stories. then he or she will start the basic forensics, are there any skid marks if so they will be measured, the depth of the dent impact into the vehicle, the distance the biker was thrown, etc., etc.

will determine the speed of the biker.

 

All this evidence gathered will determine the report which doesn't exist in Thailand from my experience. If this was all done I believe what I saw in the video the forensic report would confirm my assumption. One doesn't need to be there and know when any vehicle is operating well beyond the limits.

 

The speed limit there is 50. So from your expert opinion he was riding within the limit.

 

His speed is irrelevant anyway as the car is at fault.

[ukrules]

I will purchase a new car one day and there's a good chance it won't be a Mercedes due to the irrational amount of attention they get from the local morons.

 

There's nothing special about a Mercedes at all, they're a very ordinary car - but not here, if I were ever to crash into someone I wouldn't want pictures of myself plastered all over the media just because I happened to be driving a Mercedes instead of say a Toyota camry.

[Scouse123]

7 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'd bet a lot of money that no rule book anywhere suggests to "never anticipate another driver's actions"!

Of course it is 

 

One of the first things I was taught in the UK when learning to drive.

 

Do you drive a vehicle? 

[thailand49]

 

 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

The speed limit there is 50. So from your expert opinion he was riding within the limit.

 

His speed is irrelevant anyway as the car is at fault.

If I use the word speed limit that was solely my opinion as to how the speed limit is posted in Thailand by their official which they don't have a clue about and is inconsistent when it comes to posting.

In my opinion, looking at this Soi, the congestion in one lane in each direction from my experience it is far too fast for this Soi.

 

The safe marking should be 30 with an allowance of another 10 total of 40, now if speed limits were enforced If I were the police doing my job would ticket anyone going faster than 40. Before computers and software were around it was pretty much common sense with experts were viewing. You take the three vehicles' bikes, and side carts, look at their movement forward envision someone stepping in front of them would you think the impact would have been the same?

 

I've driven a lot around Thailand,  but I know Pattaya the best,  you drive down Sukhumvit in town one moment it is 60, second later it is 80 then back down to 60 within feet. This goes on throughout the province. If one is heading North on Sukhumvit and turns into Naklau, this is a very narrow and congested road with lots of pedestrians it is marked throughout the area 60. One comes down Pattaya Nua, from Naklau heading towards the bus station Sukhumvit, it is two lanes marked 40.

 

The problem with zero enforcement has ever seen any I think we can agree on that right?  Thai driver is pedal to the metal.  if it is 40 they are going 80,  between the area of Makro on Sukhumvit Pattaya it is marked 60 yet if you were standing with a radar gun the average speed is 90-100 if not more.

 

Take Bangkok, 2 years the lady doctor who was run down at the crosswalk I know that road well, it is officially mark 80- the cop on the bike was running well over 100,  there is zero reason to allow Hwy speed in city dwelling 80 is too much.

 

We also disagree that the car was at fault I noted one can have the right of way but you can't demand it as so many times one sees here in Thailand. You creep your way out slowly but oncoming vehicles refuse to give way even when you are right in front of them. Even when one has completely taken the lane as this vehicle had in your own words? 7 seconds is more than enough time if they were looking up to slow down. But here that wasn't the case the biker looked like ran into the vehicle intentionally!  The vehicle had taken the right away it was fully across into the lane and that law exists like the law against undertaking or overtaking at an intersection. When a vehicle slows down or stops common sense it is for a reason you don't under or overtake at speeds as if you are on a highway you do it cautiously.

 

I've argued these points here as noted I'm no expert but have studied the laws of driving here in Thailand out of interest in several situations with police for friends and myself there is no such thing when it comes to driving " This is Thailand "  a Farang is always at fault yes you are if you allow it. 

The vehicle was invented in the West so were the rules through decades those rules have been turned up and down and sideways. Thailand has asked and is part of the International driving community the reason a Thai can obtain an International Permit and drive outside in another country who has also joined the community. You can't get into an accident and then claim this is the way I do it in Thailand. A stop sign is a stop sign, not up to me!

 

The vehicle had the right-away it had for seconds until the bike ran directly into it.

 

Here in Pattaya, I've seen 4 deaths, where the vehicle has slowly taken the entire lane yet the young driver refused to try to go up the sidewalk hit a cement pole, and snapped her neck.

 

I sent the link to my niece who is a forensic expert with the California Hwy Patrol in San Francisco and has visited me several times in Thailand and we have had a lot of discussions about driving here. She just took a look and quoted "What is there to look at "  as I noted going too fast!  Just from seeing the impact! 

There is a rule at least in the U.S. regardless of the speed limit you adjust your driving including speed to the condition at hand. If it is raining slow down regardless of the sign saying 120.

 

Edited April 27 by thailand49

[it is what it is]

 

if the motorcyclist had been going at a reasonable speed and/or paying attention he would have been able to stop.

[Ctkong]

11 hours ago, herfiehandbag said:

I came off my bike in a heavy storm a couple of weeks ago at about 10pm. A large tree branch came down across the road and I hit it. I was not going very fast at all - it was as black as the earl of hells waistcoat; but I was thrown across the road. Lying there stunned and battered, feeling like I had gone 3 rounds with Mike Tyson. Two cars pulled up, one each side of the site, and sat their watching me from about 30 metres away. I was able to drag myself into the gutter. They sat there watching for 20 minutes or so until a "rescue pick up" arrived and took me to hospital. No one got out of either car - mind you it was still raining quite hard!

 

By contrast, the "rescue crew" were excellent. They took me to hospital, contacted my daughter and even recovered the damaged bike.

Thais afraid of being blamed as the cause of the accident which is not unusual in Thailand but they hang around to make sure help is coming for you. 

[BangkokReady]

On 4/26/2024 at 6:36 PM, snoop1130 said:

a motorcyclist they hit

 

They didn't hit him.

[BangkokReady]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

His speed is irrelevant anyway as the car is at fault.

 

Surely at certain speeds, the car wouldn't be at fault if they could not anticipate that the vehicle would reach them in time as they would not do so if riding at a normal speed?  They might not have even been able to see him if he was far away but moving at speed.

 

The car isn't at fault simply for driving into the path of another vehicle, if the other vehicle could have stopped if they were paying attention.  You could be making a turn, be delayed in clearing the opposite lane, and have someone strike you due to not looking at the road, who would have been nowhere near you when you began your turn.

[Liverpool Lou]

2 hours ago, Scouse123 said:

10 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

I'd bet a lot of money that no rule book anywhere suggests to "never anticipate another driver's actions"!

Of course it is 

One of the first things I was taught in the UK when learning to drive.

Do you drive a vehicle? 

Of course, I drive and I have never heard of anyone being taught to "never anticipate other drivers' actions", "always anticipate other drivers' action, yes, that makes sense, not anticipating other drivers' actions makes no safety sense at all.

[stevenl]

13 minutes ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Surely at certain speeds, the car wouldn't be at fault if they could not anticipate that the vehicle would reach them in time as they would not do so if riding at a normal speed?  They might not have even been able to see him if he was far away but moving at speed.

 

The car isn't at fault simply for driving into the path of another vehicle, if the other vehicle could have stopped if they were paying attention.  You could be making a turn, be delayed in clearing the opposite lane, and have someone strike you due to not looking at the road, who would have been nowhere near you when you began your turn.

Car is at fault, speed of bike is irrelevant except for, in theory, a fine.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, thailand49 said:

You seem to be angry and so defensive about something!

 

I was associated with the Dept of Transportation for over 35 years.  I had the privilege and fortune of many years learning from their seminars and my association the same with the California Hwy Patrol with their ride-along. Although it was never my intention to be riding a motorbike I had the opportunity from my involvement to train to operate a motorbike properly.

 

In my association with these two organizations, I learned some fundamentals at accident scenes nearly all cadets for law enforcement will be given these basics training to apply to at least determine the cause until the real forensic expert shows up and does their reports. Now living 20 years I seriously doubt the huge majority of police even can figure out 2 plus 2 is 4, sorry if those reading feel this is Thai bashing. In many of the cases, I rode along after listening to the expert you can already develop your assumption which I always kept to myself unless I was asked by the officers I being a guest.

 

In this particular case, I watch the video and one doesn't have to be there to express an observation from my experience. What do we have you or I will never see the report so what are we left with  " Assumption " Here is mine!

 

Before the vehicle comes into the picture you will notice 3 motorbikes, a single rider, then a sidecar, then another single rider traveling in the opposite direction observe their movement or speed by gauging their surroundings when the vehicle comes into the picture and make the right turn from the video whatever " right away " vehicles coming towards the vehicle had is gone the vehicle has taken 100% and more if one looks at the front vehicle it is over the solid white line on the side of the road. Yes, even in Thailand there is such a thing as " right of way " and there is such a thing it can be taken from observing this Soi the speed limit should be around 30 KM/H with a 10 KM/L lead max of 40 KM/L.  Now take a good look when the vehicle has made the right it stops at the solid line the driver in my opinion based on stopping sees the biker coming and freezes thereafter no more than 3 seconds before the biker comes into the picture those 3 seconds add up that his speed was in the range of 50-60.

 

Compare those three seconds to the previous 3 bikers traveling past this point the same distance. You watch the picture and enter the picture from the video there is no attempt to slow down, avoid, or lay the bike down which is the proper training whenever one knows that is the final alternative. The biker from the video looks like they intentionally decided to just slam into the vehicle on purpose.

 

Police here have no training. Where I'm from ride along if a first responder officer looking at the accident first attends to the hurt rider then he views the accident and knows within minutes a general picture as to what happened. He will speak to witnesses, the car driver passenger to check and align the stories. then he or she will start the basic forensics, are there any skid marks if so they will be measured, the depth of the dent impact into the vehicle, the distance the biker was thrown, etc., etc.

will determine the speed of the biker.

 

All this evidence gathered will determine the report which doesn't exist in Thailand from my experience. If this was all done I believe what I saw in the video the forensic report would confirm my assumption. One doesn't need to be there and know when any vehicle is operating well beyond the limits.

 

Thank you for your excellent interpretation.

 

Many of the posters have blamed the biker, but nobody has tried to explain how and why they assert the blame. Simply that he was riding too fast, or he was on his mobile phone, or he wasn't paying attention.

 

I used to ride a motorbike, but as I am 79, I quit a few years ago as I knew that if I dropped the bike, I could never have picked it up again. If I was underneath it, one or two people would have to lift it off me. I got T-boned a few years ago at a set of lights by a pickup truck who ran the red light and ploughed straight into me. I was thrown off, my left wrist was damaged and the repairs to my bike cost 10,000 baht.

 

Fortunately I didn't need hospital treatment. Also where the accident happened was outside a police box and there was a policeman who saw it all happen and took my side.

 

The only person who helped me was the policeman than saw it happen.

 

That is why I get angry and defensive about car/motorcycle accidents. I doubt if any of the posters blaming the biker had seen that accident but they all seem to know it was his fault.

[thailand49]

4 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Thank you for your excellent interpretation.

 

Many of the posters have blamed the biker, but nobody has tried to explain how and why they assert the blame. Simply that he was riding too fast, or he was on his mobile phone, or he wasn't paying attention.

 

I used to ride a motorbike, but as I am 79, I quit a few years ago as I knew that if I dropped the bike, I could never have picked it up again. If I was underneath it, one or two people would have to lift it off me. I got T-boned a few years ago at a set of lights by a pickup truck who ran the red light and ploughed straight into me. I was thrown off, my left wrist was damaged and the repairs to my bike cost 10,000 baht.

 

Fortunately I didn't need hospital treatment. Also where the accident happened was outside a police box and there was a policeman who saw it all happen and took my side.

 

The only person who helped me was the policeman than saw it happen.

 

That is why I get angry and defensive about car/motorcycle accidents. I doubt if any of the posters blaming the biker had seen that accident but they all seem to know it was his fault.

Thanks glad you are ok, lucky T Bone. I still ride a bike although I have three cars in family. 

[billd766]

2 minutes ago, thailand49 said:

Thanks glad you are ok, lucky T Bone. I still ride a bike although I have three cars in family. 

Even more fortunate was my mate I had dropped him a home 10 minutes earlier.

 

If he had still been on the bike, one of us would have lost a left leg from the kneecap down.. I was in first gear with the throttle wide open and here was nowhere else to go and I couldn't go any faster. If I had tried to stop, the Mercedes behind me would have hit me. Since that time I am never the first one away from the lights.

[BangkokReady]

28 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Car is at fault, speed of bike is irrelevant except for, in theory, a fine.

 

So if a car pulls across the opposite lane to turn, but it's turn is delayed, then a bike comes along after about a minute or two of the car being in the opposite lane, and the bike hits the car because the rider isn't paying attention, that's the car's fault?

[Startmeup]

This is a very busy road in Rawai. Restaurants, cafes and accommodation dotted all along the road. It's close to a very sharp bend where traffic comes to a standstill most of the time. The bike looks to be going quite fast given the location but it doesn't matter how fast he is going the car cut right in front of him and the bike didn't come out of nowhere, the car is at fault. Hopefully the driver makes a full recovery and is compensated for his hospital bills, loss of earnings and repairs to bike.

[gerritkaew]

Car turned and just did not see the motorbike at such high speed coming. 
the video stops yes and we did not see it all, but if it happened to me I also not check for the bikers here, all drive like on a racetrack without any lights or whatever.

did you thing he would look at you when he drove the car,, forget it….

[stevenl]

23 minutes ago, gerritkaew said:

Car turned and just did not see the motorbike at such high speed coming. 
the video stops yes and we did not see it all, but if it happened to me I also not check for the bikers here, all drive like on a racetrack without any lights or whatever.

did you thing he would look at you when he drove the car,, forget it….

So you don't care about the bike rider because they all drive too fast and wouldn't check on you if the roles were reversed.

[Scouse123]

9 hours ago, Liverpool Lou said:

Of course, I drive and I have never heard of anyone being taught to "never anticipate other drivers' actions", "always anticipate other drivers' action, yes, that makes sense, not anticipating other drivers' actions makes no safety sense at all.

 

 

Of course, it makes sense, it is saying never to second guess or presuppose what another driver intends to do. This is because you don't know what is in their head.

 

This means driving defensively and not putting yourself in harm's way, by thinking you know the course of action the other driver intends to take.

 

Allow the potential danger to pass and then move when the road is clear

 

 

[Scouse123]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

So you don't care about the bike rider because they all drive too fast and wouldn't check on you if the roles were reversed.

 

 

A lot of Thais drive off because they are afraid in ' Thai logic ' that if they hang around, the police will think they have something to do with it.

 

Alien to western thinking and sensible driving, I know.

[zzzzz]

Two points after riding a motorcycle an driving a car here in Phuket for over 35 years
1  Always drive defensively an expect the unexpected in Thailand
2. Dont get involved if you see an accident, you might be blamed for something

 

 

[sambum]

Luxury car - no signal to indicate that he was turning.

 

Motorbike appeared to be going fast, but the rider wasn't thrown very far, and didn't appear to be seriously injured.

 

However, the thing that is apparent from the clip is that the couple seemed more concerned about their car than the motorcyclist! Didn't even give him a glance!

[sambum]

13 hours ago, BangkokReady said:

 

Surely at certain speeds, the car wouldn't be at fault if they could not anticipate that the vehicle would reach them in time as they would not do so if riding at a normal speed?  They might not have even been able to see him if he was far away but moving at speed.

 

The car isn't at fault simply for driving into the path of another vehicle, if the other vehicle could have stopped if they were paying attention.  You could be making a turn, be delayed in clearing the opposite lane, and have someone strike you due to not looking at the road, who would have been nowhere near you when you began your turn.

"You could be making a turn, be delayed in clearing the opposite lane,....."

 

If you were delayed in clearing the opposite lane, surely you shouldn't be turning anyway?

 

The car is at fault for not indicating his intention to turn. If he had indicated, the motor bike rider may have slowed down, or at the least, have been aware of the car drivers intentions.  

[tandor]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:47 AM, Hakuna Matata said:

 

The sedan driver might have been using his smartphone while driving and did not notice the motosai?

Nah!..he is driving a flash Merc..he'd be looking at everyone to see if they were looking at him. Pretentious Hiso.

[BillyBloggs]

On 4/27/2024 at 7:35 AM, ChrisY1 said:

Apart from no indicator....the car is well past the centerline and into the turn.....Motcy speeding and not looking....his/her fault because they were stupid.

But hey....never let a chance go by when an expat can be blamed!

Oh the driver cant see 100 metres, it should never have started a turn.

[ChipButty]

17 minutes ago, BillyBloggs said:

Oh the driver cant see 100 metres, it should never have started a turn.

I dont think you can see 100 meters from where the car is, there is a bend in the road ahead of the car

[Deerculler]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:29 AM, Ironmike said:

Those of you that are automatically blaming the rider should be ashamed of yourselves it doesn't matter who is at fault,, look at the man getting out of the Mercedes did he walk over to check the rider??? No way not a chance he was more worried about the car,, didn't give a crap about another human being. 

Who has a Mercedes and stays at Vivi resort its a cheap place I'm willing to bet the car driver is Russian and arrogant POS let's all see. I hope they are arrested soon. 

You assume the car driver was Russian.

What a great detective you are. It might even be Thai