Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[Joe Mcseismic]

My crystal ball predicts that lump sum, monthly and combined will all be legitimate methods, but, strictly cash in the bank with bank letters. The embassy issued letters will go the way of the Dodo. Either the embassies will stop issuing them, or Immigration won't accept them.

[tropo]

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

What people "prefer" to do or not is irrelevant. Eventually, TI is going to want to see the lump sum, or 12 monthly payments in a Thai bank. Immigration holds all the cards in this game and they don't care about your preferences.

Please don't come here citing speculation as fact. There is no certainty that TI will not accept some form of income verification going forward, including the possibility they may accept monthly bank deposits. At this point, no one knows for sure what is going to happen.

[malt25]

3 hours ago, blackhorse said:

What are you on about? TI Have announced nothing.

Better go hassle your embassy, they are the ones that made an announcement and NOT TI. !!

"Better go hassle your embassy,"    

[vincent13]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

I wouldn't be so sure about the 40k/65k per month method.

 

I suspect it will be lump sums only. This is just a hunch of course.

Yes, I think you are correct. For those countries whose embassies won't issue "letters" I can see it being lump sums only.

[Naam]

3 hours ago, Joe Mcseismic said:

Doesn't all the xenophobic comments and actions in the media, which play to the domestic audience very well (which is why it's done) give you a clue as to Thai officialdom's thinking?

could you name a few of these "xenophobic comments and actions in the media"? you can't? i thought so!

 

but thousands of xenophobic comments about stupid Thais, their stupid country with its stupid laws and regulations as well as the stupid Thai government in this forum speak volumes.

[cleverman]

13 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

how about bringing money into Thailand?

How does that prove income?

[Mike Teavee]

15 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I am well aware of the difference. WHO asked for verification and how ? a letter in Thai, a letter in English where certify and verify could have been confused, orally in English where verify was used instead of certify, we don't know how this happened and that's a problem. The German embassy certifies my income according to the documents seen and.....IS RECEIVING.... They have no problem issuing the letter, TI has no problem accepting it. They haven't got on their high horse shouting WE CAN'T......

TI are accepting the letters for now but what odds would you give that they won't accept them after they stop accepting the ones from UK, US & Aus?

 

Hua Hin is already saying they won't accept any next year but it's easy to see how that conversation could have been about them not accepting one from the individual's home country rather than a general statement, simple mix-up in what was said, vs what was heard vs what was intended.

 

Irrespective, my money would be on them stopping accepting the letters from all Embassies - Hope I'm wrong but having as few variants as possible makes sense....

 

Money in the Bank for 3 months or evidence of regular incoming deposits = 2 versions of standard letters, written in Thai from a source that Immigration can easily reach out to & verify if they feel the need

 

SIMPLE (for Thai Immigration),  could even go all "Thailand 4.0" & have the Bank's feed the confirmation into Immigration's systems (Not unlike Hotels reporting TM30s) if further proof the letters were genuine was required.

[cleverman]

15 hours ago, cleverman said:

 

Quote just one stupid question 

Still looking?

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

TI are accepting the letters for now but what odds would you give that they won't accept them after they stop accepting the ones from UK, US & Aus?

 

Hua Hin is already saying they won't accept any next year but it's easy to see how that conversation could have been about them not accepting one from the individual's home country rather than a general statement, simple mix-up in what was said, vs what was heard vs what was intended.

 

Irrespective, my money would be on them stopping accepting the letters from all Embassies - Hope I'm wrong but having as few variants as possible makes sense....

 

Money in the Bank for 3 months or evidence of regular incoming deposits = 2 versions of standard letters, written in Thai from a source that Immigration can easily reach out to & verify if they feel the need

 

SIMPLE (for Thai Immigration),  could even go all "Thailand 4.0" & have the Bank's feed the confirmation into Immigration's systems (Not unlike Hotels reporting TM30s) if further proof the letters were genuine was required.

The problem is there has been no guidance from TI for the IO's so everyone will be making up their own rules (as normal) which is why I think it important to know who used the word verify, was it some middle management official or is it now TI policy ? I find it strange that there has been no official response from TI, no BKK post announcement where normally officials are quick to seek the limelight regarding protecting Thailand, positively reeks of confusion in the upper echelons. 

[Psychic]

Try to lighten it up a bit.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/bbccomedy/status/1029419127377514499?lang=en

[Pattaya46]

31 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

TI are accepting the letters for now but what odds would you give that they won't accept them after they stop accepting the ones from UK, US & Aus?

Where did you see TI's announce that they would stop accepting letters ?

Nowhere ! 

 

10 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I find it strange that there has been no official response from TI, //

Not so strange if - as I think - TI had no project to change rules, but has been surprised by these embassies' decision and must now think about what they should do solve this problem.

[Mike Teavee]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

The problem is there has been no guidance from TI for the IO's so everyone will be making up their own rules (as normal) which is why I think it important to know who used the word verify, was it some middle management official or is it now TI policy ? I find it strange that there has been no official response from TI, no BKK post announcement where normally officials are quick to seek the limelight regarding protecting Thailand, positively reeks of confusion in the upper echelons. 

It's irrelevant, the "Rules" have always been that the income should be verified & the "Nod & a Wink" application of these rules is no longer acceptable to Thailand immigration, it's just another example of Laws/Rules being enforced more - No changes to the rules, just the enforcement.

 

A number of previous posts suggest that you're just going to "Have a cup of tea, wait & see", I truly hope that when things change your extension is many months off so you have the luxury to do that and the time to make alternative arrangements once the new requirements are known, unfortunately come January there will be guys emailing the British Embassy or going online for appointments at the US/AUS Embassies to learn that they don't issue Income certificates anymore who don't have that luxury & will need to choose between heading out for a new Non-O / Non-OA or leaving Thailand for good.

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

2 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Where did you see TI's announce that they would stop accepting letters ?

Nowhere ! 

 

Not so strange if - as I think - TI had no project to change rules, but has been surprised by these embassies' decision and must now think about what they should do solve this problem.

No announcement necessary, they will obviously stop accepting letters from UK, US & Aus in July 2019 as:-

1. Income letters are (supposed to be) valid for 6 months
2. No new Income letters will be issued by UK, US & Aus after 7th January 2019

Or do you want them to formally announce that they don't accept invalid income certificates?

 

 

[soalbundy]

10 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

It's irrelevant, the "Rules" have always been that the income should be verified & the "Nod & a Wink" application of these rules is no longer acceptable to Thailand immigration, it's just another example of Laws/Rules being enforced more - No changes to the rules, just the enforcement.

 

A number of previous posts suggest that you're just going to "Have a cup of tea, wait & see", I truly hope that when things change your extension is many months off so you have the luxury to do that and the time to make alternative arrangements once the new requirements are known, unfortunately come January there will be guys emailing the British Embassy or going online for appointments at the US/AUS Embassies to learn that they don't issue Income certificates anymore who don't have that luxury & will need to choose between heading out for a new Non-O / Non-OA or leaving Thailand for good.

 

 

I'm doing my extension in two weeks. If this is no change in policy and merely a crackdown then based on past experience we can expect it to die a natural 'Thai crackdown death' in two weeks, unfortunately for the Brits, US and AUS citizens their embassies may have jumped the gun and caused an irrevocable situation while the other embassies drank tea/coffee and waited for the clouds to disappear.

[Mike Teavee]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I'm doing my extension in two weeks. If this is no change in policy and merely a crackdown then based on past experience we can expect it to die a natural 'Thai crackdown death' in two weeks, unfortunately for the Brits, US and AUS citizens their embassies may have jumped the gun and caused an irrevocable situation while the other embassies drank tea/coffee and waited for the clouds to disappear.

I honestly don't think this one will die down as there are 3 (Possibly 4, I'm sure I saw something that Canada had also said it's stopping issuing the letters - apologies if I'm mistaken) different countries involved & I cannot see them all backing down. 

 

Whilst we're waiting for the new (clear) guidelines on what is acceptable proof of income, it would be great if Immigration could put up notices in their offices highlighting that some Embassies (they don't need to specify which ones in case others stop) will stop issuing income letters from the start of the year & advising people to contact their Embassy to find out how they're affected.

 

That way at least guys turning up to do 90 day reports, TM28/30s etc... will be aware that it's happening.

 

Plus it might p155 the Embassies off a bit if they start to get loads of queries ????

 

[orchidfan]

15 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Yep, have to make an appointment for passport or notarial services now.

Been that way for over 12 months now.

 

https://thailand.embassy.gov.au/bkok/Appointments_Page.html

 

Book an appointment > Notarial service (Documents for use in Thailand > Stat Declarations.

Select date, available appointments are shown (14 per day).

As you advised.  it was easy to book an appointment for witnessing of a Statutory Declaration at the Embassy.

Many thanks for your help.

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

I honestly don't think this one will die down as there are 3 (Possibly 4, I'm sure I saw something that Canada had also said it's stopping issuing the letters - apologies if I'm mistaken) different countries involved & I cannot see them all backing down. 

 

Whilst we're waiting for the new (clear) guidelines on what is acceptable proof of income, it would be great if Immigration could put up notices in their offices highlighting that some Embassies (they don't need to specify which ones in case others stop) will stop issuing income letters from the start of the year & advising people to contact their Embassy to find out how they're affected.

 

That way at least guys turning up to do 90 day reports, TM28/30s etc... will be aware that it's happening.

 

Plus it might p155 the Embassies off a bit if they start to get loads of queries ????

 

There has been a post from a Canadian, no change, still only 3 embassies.

[Mike Teavee]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

There has been a post from a Canadian, no change, still only 3 embassies.

I did check on www.Thailand.gc.ca but most of the pages 404 (Page not found), even the French ones 

 

[soalbundy]

2 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I did check on www.Thailand.gc.ca but most of the pages 404 (Page not found), even the French ones 

 

I just checked the German embassy, no change

[orchidfan]

Apart from the embassy letter and backup evidence,for an extension based on marriage,  do they still require all the photographs,  map of house location and wife's ID card and house book? Oh and the house visit? This will be extension number 3.

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, orchidfan said:

Apart from the embassy letter and backup evidence,for an extension based on marriage,  do they still require all the photographs,  map of house location and wife's ID card and house book? Oh and the house visit? This will be extension number 3.

Yes, but it’s unlikely you’ll get a home visit for the third extension unless you’re applying at a new office.

[nrasmussen]

How does that prove income?

Exactly! - Bringing money into Thailand doesn't. And to make matters worse, it's even gross income (i.e., before taxes) that must be proven - isn't it?

 

[damascase]

4 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I just checked the German embassy, no change

No changes as far as the Dutch Embassy is concerned either...........

[NanLaew]

18 hours ago, tropo said:

That particular applicant (I tried to find the post again - does anyone have a link?) was given no other option for his next extension. It was 800k seasoned, and that's it. He wasn't given this illusive 65k bank deposit option.

Phuket IO on a bad hair day? If you find the link/thread, it would be interesting to know if the 'victim' asked about the 65k bank deposit regular income option or was even aware of it. Admittedly, there's zero evidence of it being accepted or even offered by any IO anywhere but I still reckon that's because according to the BE letter lady in her radio interview, half the Brits use the seasoned lump sum and the other half does income letters. I guess that was extrapolated from having a fairly good idea on the total amount of Brit retirees over here and knowing how many of them ask for letters?

 

Maybe Immigration's disregard of their own stated 65k regular income option is couched in their culture where cash is king. Since the 65k regular income option is fundamentally a 12-month hire-purchase option on the lump sum, they want it all, now, up front.

[Mike Teavee]

7 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Phuket IO on a bad hair day? If you find the link/thread, it would be interesting to know if the 'victim' asked about the 65k bank deposit regular income option or was even aware of it. Admittedly, there's zero evidence of it being accepted or even offered by any IO anywhere but I still reckon that's because according to the BE letter lady in her radio interview, half the Brits use the seasoned lump sum and the other half does income letters. I guess that was extrapolated from having a fairly good idea on the total amount of Brit retirees over here and knowing how many of them ask for letters?

 

Maybe Immigration's disregard of their own stated 65k regular income option is couched in their culture where cash is king. Since the 65k regular income option is fundamentally a 12-month hire-purchase option on the lump sum, they want it all, now, up front.

I thought the lady from BE mentioned that they do ~250 Income Letter applications a month, 3,000 per year would suggest that the vast majority of Non-O/OA Visa holders are using the "Seasoned Lump" method or getting new Visas each year (Seems a few of the Married guys go to Savannakhet each year for a new 1 year Multi-Entry (90 days a time) for which no financial proof is required at all).

 

[sambum]

On 11/4/2018 at 10:47 PM, melvinmelvin said:

you bet - same question will come up again,

but not sure his answer is very good,

 

I do 800k/bank and have no experience with income verification

 

however, when it comes to CoR, Certificate of Residence,

my embassy  does the following;

I hand them a handwritten piece of paper with my address,

they produce an official embassy doc where it says

 

Mr pip pip, holder of xxx passport nnnnn, has today informed

the xxx embassy that he resides at the following address

xxxx

xxxxx

xxxxx

xxxxx

 

embassy happy (no commitment)  - me happy - Thai authorities happy

 

surely it must be possible to construct smth similar re income

 

 

 

 

 

 

The reason you have no problem re verification is because the 800k is in a Thai bank and not a foreign bank? And I presume that you also have to have a covering letter from the bank to verify this  or does Thai Immigration (TI) just check the details in your account book?

 

Re your Certificate of Residence (COR - thanks!) the last time I did an annual extension, I was given a new form by Immigration in addition to the TM7. It is numbered Imm.2, and I am told that they use this to verify the address that they have on file for you on their computer (Sounds like duplicated unnecessary paperwork to me, as I already have to provide them with a copy of the Rental Contract, and Landlord Details, but you know how the Thais love paperwork!) So nothing needed from your Embassy.

 

And the letter that the British Embassy is stopping providing is very similar to your suggestion - just substitute "has informed the Embassy that he has income and savings  totalling  xxxxx British Pounds" for  "resides at the following address" But TI are NOT happy with that and they want the Embassy to verify the income - therein lies the problem!

[soalbundy]

5 minutes ago, sambum said:

The reason you have no problem re verification is because the 800k is in a Thai bank and not a foreign bank? And I presume that you also have to have a covering letter from the bank to verify this  or does Thai Immigration (TI) just check the details in your account book?

 

Re your Certificate of Residence (COR - thanks!) the last time I did an annual extension, I was given a new form by Immigration in addition to the TM7. It is numbered Imm.2, and I am told that they use this to verify the address that they have on file for you on their computer (Sounds like duplicated unnecessary paperwork to me, as I already have to provide them with a copy of the Rental Contract, and Landlord Details, but you know how the Thais love paperwork!) So nothing needed from your Embassy.

 

And the letter that the British Embassy is stopping providing is very similar to your suggestion - just substitute "has informed the Embassy that he has income and savings  totalling  xxxxx British Pounds" for  "resides at the following address" But TI are NOT happy with that and they want the Embassy to verify the income - therein lies the problem!

make a compromise then like the other European embassies and say 'certify', they seem happy with that, play within their rules or at least tip toe around the edges, no need to make a song and dance about it.

[mfd101]

I'm currently gearing up for either of the 2 new methods for income 'verification'. I'm not due for renewal till October next year so that reduces the pressure a bit but, if my preferred new method (65K+ a month) turns out to be IT, then the sooner I start on that the better. SO:

 

I want to open a new account at BKK Bank here in Surin. I have one already in BKK but a local one here will make things easier to manage. The local branch here in Prasat wants a 'certificate of address' from Oz Embassy(!). I have no experience of this so the question is: Is this a normal function of the Embassy? Is it just another stat dec for them to witness (more irony)? or do they do a letter themselves based on the info I give them?

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory off topic post and replies to it have been removed.

[cleverman]

3 hours ago, nrasmussen said:

Exactly! - Bringing money into Thailand doesn't. And to make matters worse, it's even gross income (i.e., before taxes) that must be proven - isn't it?

 

I've always used gross, but, didn't call it that,just income.