O/A visa and insurance experience today

[Searat7]

American, Age 70, have used O-A visas since 2006. Currently staying in BKK only 7 months a year. New O-A visa issued June, 2019. Arrival in BKK July 7. Have already decided to reduce stay to 6 months and use METV for future stays, keeping under 180 days here. 
 

I plan to return to USA Feb 11 which is not a problem EXCEPT THAT I have booked 6 day trip to Vietnam early next month. Returning to BKK I would get stuck with a 30 day entry permit since I refuse to buy insurance here (many reasons) which leaves me about 32 days short of my departure date to USA. I am convinced that even if I was able to get re-entry permit at airport it would probably not be accepted 9 days later when I return. 

 

Obvious solution is to cancel Vietnam trip, take a loss and just return to USA in February. But I would really like to go there.  Any other ideas ? 

[Assurancetourix]

27 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Tourists are not being asked to get insurance

So explain me that post :

 

the member anyone wrote :

 

" I'm arrived to Don Muang airport 1 week ago as tourist.

Officer said I need 
1. Return ticket
2. Insurance
3. Pocket money "

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1132731-tourist-visa-without-insurance-almost-deported/

 

[deej]

20 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

Define 'near' 

7 months have passed since the above Cabinet resoultion

IMO the repercussions ofplacing a medical cover or insurance to Non O visa holders etc  would be massive loss in revenue to the Govt. not to mention enforcing as such

Non O visa  holders do have 800ks in their bank accounts or a monthly deposit  of 65 ks per

Why chase them 

Its a win win .for all partys concerned????

 

[LivinLOS]

2 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

So explain me that post :

 

the member anyone wrote :

 

" I'm arrived to Don Muang airport 1 week ago as tourist.

Officer said I need 
1. Return ticket
2. Insurance
3. Pocket money "

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/1132731-tourist-visa-without-insurance-almost-deported/

 

The member was confused.. There is no requirement for tourists or other short stay visitors to have insurance and I have seen no refusal of entry on those rounds ever posted. 

People are idiots..  

[LivinLOS]

1 minute ago, deej said:

7 months have passed since the above Cabinet resoultion

IMO the repercussions ofplacing a medical cover or insurance to Non O visa holders etc  would be massive loss in revenue to the Govt. not to mention enforcing as such

Non O visa  holders do have 800ks in their bank accounts or a monthly deposit  of 65 ks per

Why chase them 

Its a win win .for all partys concerned????

 

Only when they extend thier permission of stay incountry.. Which is exactly the same as OA folks. 

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, Searat7 said:

American, Age 70, have used O-A visas since 2006. Currently staying in BKK only 7 months a year. New O-A visa issued June, 2019. Arrival in BKK July 7. Have already decided to reduce stay to 6 months and use METV for future stays, keeping under 180 days here. 
 

I plan to return to USA Feb 11 which is not a problem EXCEPT THAT I have booked 6 day trip to Vietnam early next month. Returning to BKK I would get stuck with a 30 day entry permit since I refuse to buy insurance here (many reasons) which leaves me about 32 days short of my departure date to USA. I am convinced that even if I was able to get re-entry permit at airport it would probably not be accepted 9 days later when I return. 

 

Obvious solution is to cancel Vietnam trip, take a loss and just return to USA in February. But I would really like to go there.  Any other ideas ? 

Possible road to go:

1. Try to get a re-entry permit before leaving on your Vietnam-trip. 

2. When on your return you are let in > problem solved

When on your return you are denied entry even with the re-entry permit, simply enter 30 days Visa exempt.

3. Then apply for an extension of stay (30 additional days) based on that 30 days Visa exempt.  Can be done at any provincial IO and costs 1900 THB.

4. Calculate carefully the days you would be granted on Visa exempt + extension.  If you would be on overstay before leaving for US, simply extend your trip in Vietnam with those days.

Success!

 

[Lovethailandelite]

2 hours ago, brianj1964 said:

When I entered yesterday and started this thread, he told me the O-A wasn't valid without insurance he told me he would allow me in for 30 days to obtain insurance, I presume he meant a 30 day tourist visa , he told me to buy insurance and go back to immigration, he never said I had to leave and come back nor did he say he would deduct 30 days from my O-A. When I went back in the line to get the passport stamped by a different IO she gave me the year, I have to presume I was lucky or she made an error 

Sorry to rain on your parade but you are aware of Section 4 in the police order and how it pertains to entry's in the case of your scenario? Immigration have covered themselves against a mistake of giving you a longer period of stay than they should of given. You are wide open. If at a later date and for some reason it is seen that you should never of been stamped in for 12 months, the stamp and period of stay is reversed to what it of should been. You could very easily find yourself on overstay. The Onus is on you to be certain of being stamped in correctly.

 

[GeorgeCross]

14 minutes ago, deej said:

Non O visa  holders do have 800ks in their bank accounts or a monthly deposit  of 65 ks per

Why chase them 

Its a win win .for all partys concerned

 

once OA's extend their visa they also require those financials AND they'll require insurance

 

now thats win win! cha-chiiiing!!

 

[Assurancetourix]

18 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

The member was confused..

Not the member but the officer of Immigration who, not knowing this new law , wanted to do zeal ..

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, brianj1964 said:

You may just get away with plan B, but if immigration see an exposed loophole it will only be a matter of time before they close it.

they will also notice if everyone on the O-A migrate to the O to get round the insurance and add mandatory insurance for that visa too 

Immigration wasn't behind the mandatory health insurance to start with. It was the Health Department. But Immigration has to enforce it. 

[sometimewoodworker]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

3 hours ago, Mango Bob said:

I plan to go to the United States in April and will be getting a RE permit.  I had an O/A visa 13 years ago and have been on extensions of stay since then.  Will the IO be asking about insurance with me.  My extension of stay ends 27 Jul 19.

 

 They will not ask it forgetting  Re-entry permit. RE permits do not entail an extension of stay, just enable you to leave and return under the existing one.

 

However depending on the IO they might ask it at your next extension

I have reports that Udon immigration office has notices stating that all retirement extensions that started from an OA Visa do require insurance. I did not need to visit as my 90 day online was accepted. I can check for any updates if needed.

[justin case]

ok, call me stupid ... if I go to neighbor country, as I have no address in my "native" homeland, no address, no bank account, nothing...   I will get a O-A  when I am 50 ?  What if I want a multi non-o ...  or is only O-A possible after 50 ?

[deej]

23 minutes ago, GeorgeCross said:

 

once OA's extend their visa they also require those financials AND they'll require insurance

 

now thats win win! cha-chiiiing!!

 

Unfortuately the OA visa holders  have missed the boat. 

And Non O holders are still on board.

For how  long ???

Sure . no one can answer  that????

 

[sometimewoodworker]

15 minutes ago, justin case said:

ok, call me stupid ... if I go to neighbor country, as I have no address in my "native" homeland, no address, no bank account, nothing...   I will get a O-A  when I am 50 ?  What if I want a multi non-o ...  or is only O-A possible after 50 ?

You have to be either a national of the country or resident in the country to get an OA Visa as you are neither you would not get an OA in any country but your homeland. A single entry Non-O will probably be OK depending on where you go, multiple entry Non-Os are possible for some classes (marrage is one) at some locations and not at others.

Edited November 7, 2019 by sometimewoodworker

[david555]

2 minutes ago, deej said:

Unfortuately the OA visa holders  have missed the boat. 

And Non O holders are still on board.

For how  long ???

Sure . no one can answer  that????

 

in case they count non o in also for insurance , it would be logic the immigration release the rule of 800K for 5 months and the 7 month'400k keeping untouched on bank and return to the 2-3 months rule ….. but logic and Thailand ….?

[Peter Denis]

42 minutes ago, justin case said:

ok, call me stupid ... if I go to neighbor country, as I have no address in my "native" homeland, no address, no bank account, nothing...   I will get a O-A  when I am 50 ?  What if I want a multi non-o ...  or is only O-A possible after 50 ?

Hi Justin,

No offense but vague questions generate vague or no answers.

In order to give accurate to-the-point response the following info is needed:

- On which Visa-type are you presently staying in Thailand

- If on extension of stay, what was the original Visa-type on which the extension was based

- What is the expiry date of your Visa (valid until ... as printed on the Visa sticker in your passport)

- What is the last day of the permission of stay, stamped into your passport on entry

- What is your age and nationality or issue-country of your passport

- Where (which province) are you presently staying, and are you staying in hotels, renting or staying at the house of your (girl)friend

- Provide an accurate history of your exits/entries in Thailand over the last 12 months, and on which Visas those entries have been, as well as the entry-points (from the history we should be able to determine how many days you have been staying in LOS Visa exempt or on Tourist Visa)

 

> When you have provided the above info, also let us know what are your plans/intentions (e.g. staying as long as possible in Thailand in the house of your girlfriend which you plan to marry in course of coming year).

With the above info, TVF members will be able to provide you with accurate response without having to resort to guessing.

Cheers!

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by Peter Denis

[Max69xl]

50 minutes ago, justin case said:

ok, call me stupid ... if I go to neighbor country, as I have no address in my "native" homeland, no address, no bank account, nothing...   I will get a O-A  when I am 50 ?  What if I want a multi non-o ...  or is only O-A possible after 50 ?

You can only apply for the O-A Visa in your home country. What you want from let's say the Thai Consulate in Savannaket,Laos is a Non-Immigrant O Visa which is extendable 1 year after 60 days at the local immigration office. IF, you meet the financial requirements. 

[Thaidream]

5 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

The only problem with that, is we do not know for how long this will work, and for anyone pushing 70 or 75 options for immigration-approved insurance will soon vanish.  (Not a single option available for people over 75 and only 2 for people aged 71-75).

 

I am on an O myself so no immediate problem for me personally but the language in the Cabinet Resolution is worrisome for the long run, and while it would likely take some time for anything to happen affecting other visa types I am toying with the idea of  getting a second policy sometime in the next few years, before I am too old to do so.  Of course I will wait and see first how things shake out. But it is in my mind since I am deeply committed to staying here (built a large house and just spent a small fortune on a new roof!!!)

 

Another option which my broker mentioned to me is to take a larger deductible on my "real" insurance to lower its premiums and use the savings to by a 400/40 local policy with the idea that the local policy would cover the deductible on the main policy. (I would not suggest doing this without a good broker as my experience with getting local insurer to pay a deductible was that it was an uphill struggle to get them to understand it).

Well summarized-  I, also on an O and married to a Thai so have some options. However- if at some point point I need insurance from Thailand- the cost is  absurdly high for the coverage.

 

IMO- the Health Ministry did not fully think out this whole plan nor did the Immigration Bureau put out an order that is easily readable and understandable to it's officers who have to implement it.  Several questions need to be answered-

 

-What happens to people age  75 and up who  are not even being provided an opportunity for coverage.  When some thing is mandatory- everyone must have the opportunity to get the coverage or if not- the requirement is waived. Absolute sinful if these people have to leave their retirement home.

 

-Does a rentry permit  on an O-A issued prior to  Oct 31, 2019 waive the insurance requirement.

 

-Was the  actual intent of the police order to apply the order retroactively to all holders of an O-A back  decades or is the police order being interpreted incorrectly /

 

I still have some hope that good sense and fairness will prevail and that the insurance requirement apply only to  an O-A Visa holder with an issue date of 31 October 2019 and after. 

 

If there is no grandfathering the utter infairness of such a retroactive application   is beyond comprehension . 

 

[Momofarang]

29 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

What happens to people age  75 and up who  are not even being provided an opportunity for coverage.  When some thing is mandatory- everyone must have the opportunity to get the coverage or if not- the requirement is waived. Absolute sinful if these people have to leave their retirement home.

For someone who is purely a retiree the answer seems obvious to me: move out to a place where you can manage a decent life end. For those like me who have strong family ties I'd expect more humanity. At least I'd have an opportunity to expose Thai inhumanity, or would it be just the epitome of xenophobia?

[sometimewoodworker]

17 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Does a rentry permit  on an O-A issued prior to  Oct 31, 2019 waive the insurance requirement.

 

-Was the  actual intent of the police order to apply the order retroactively to all holders of an O-A back  decades or is the police order being interpreted incorrectly /

1) it is not at all clear if you actually have a current NON-OA VISA and have a reentry permit, if that reentry permit will be honoured.

 

if you are not talking about a current non-OA Visa the answer is different  and your question should reflect that.

 

2) The wording of the order is reasonably clear and unambiguous. It, as Udon immigration and probably most/all offices conclude, applies to all extensions of stay for retirement that originated with an OA Visa.

 

speculation of the intent is pointless as the wording on that point is clear.

 

There is no grandfather exception for insurance in the order.

There remains a grandfather exception for entry prior to October 1998.

had there been a intention to grandfather non insurance OA extensions the opportunity was there. 

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, sometimewoodworker said:

You have to be either a national of the country or resident in the country to get an OA Visa as you are neither you would not get an OA in any country but your homeland.

Not so easy, at least for some nationalities. Thai Embassy in France by example ask for a "proof of domicile in France" when you want ask for an O-A. So if you have none, you cannot get an O-A, even in you are French...

[GeorgeCross]

6 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

For someone who is purely a retiree the answer seems obvious to me: move out to a place where you can manage a decent life end. For those like me who have strong family ties I'd expect more humanity. At least I'd have an opportunity to expose Thai inhumanity, or would it be just the epitome of xenophobia?

 

trust me there are retirement homes that look after the infirm, those recovering from strokes/diabetes/cancer/heart attacks and those with dementia. the majority of these expats are near to or over 75. there is a number of these places in hua hin alone.

 

what is to become of them?

 

shall they be wheeled in their beds to IDC? because they won't be popping to the border for a non-O ????

 

i really hope if it comes to that someone is there to document it.

 

it is shameful.

 

 

[brianj1964]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Sorry to rain on your parade but you are aware of Section 4 in the police order and how it pertains to entry's in the case of your scenario? Immigration have covered themselves against a mistake of giving you a longer period of stay than they should of given. You are wide open. If at a later date and for some reason it is seen that you should never of been stamped in for 12 months, the stamp and period of stay is reversed to what it of should been. You could very easily find yourself on overstay. The Onus is on you to be certain of being stamped in correctly.

 

I will take the chance that a land border crossing won't be too stringent when I leave to to obtain the non-immigrant O when this O-A expires 

[travelerjim]

8 hours ago, Skallywag said:

Likely your only course of action would be to hire an "agent" if you need to renew a Non-O-A, or switch to Non-O visa.  Pacific cross does allow entry up to 75 years of age, though would be expensive > 100K baht a year.  Of course you can purchase more than the "required" amount

And with Pacific Cross you can choose a high deductible up to 300,000 Thai baht which will reduce premium approx 50%

[Methuselah]

That this governmental edict had the potential to be unfair has been apparent for some months.Presumably the Insurance companies had been amongst the consulted advisors.

One had hoped that some sense might have been injected prior to its implementation but this has not been the case.

There are some possible lobby groups that might suffer secondary to its implementation.

The construction industry would surely suffer as retirees no longer list Thailand as a destination.

Ironically,the very industry that the edict planned to protect might also be one of the first to suffer--the health and hospital industry,particularly in holiday/retirement destinations.

The entire project needs to be rethought, but I fear this would slap egg in the face of the persons responsible for this unjust plan.

Panorama,or at least Johnathan Head could have a field day exposing the motives behind this policy.

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, brianj1964 said:

I will take the chance that a land border crossing won't be too stringent when I leave to to obtain the non-immigrant O when this O-A expires 

Waiting till last day before the erronous OA-based permission to stay expires, means that technically you would be 335 days on overstay.  Not a cheerful prospect... because apart from the fine, you would probably be banned from entering Thailand for a long time.

I would advise to wait 2-3 weeks till the dust had settled and there is more clarity about the enforcement of the health-insurance requirement, and - still within your 30 days - visit an Immigration office to get the matter settled.

[Peter Denis]

36 minutes ago, travelerjim said:

And with Pacific Cross you can choose a high deductible up to 300,000 Thai baht which will reduce premium approx 50%

I stand corrected by TallGuyJohninBKK and Martyp > see next 2posts.  Thanks!

Edited November 7, 2019 by Peter Denis

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

19 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

There are several posts in this thread stating that deductibles are NOT allowed for the thai health-insurance policies that IO accepts.

 

Sheryl re-confirmed overnight with Pacific Cross that their O-A-certified general public policies that otherwise meet the O-A requirements CAN have deductibles and still receive the required documentation for Immigration. Which is what Pacific Cross has been saying all along.

 

The documentation the insurers will provide for Immigration will only mention the total cover amounts, not anything about any deductibles, whether or not the policy has them.

 

 

Edited November 7, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Martyp]

15 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

There are several posts in this thread stating that deductibles are NOT allowed for the thai health-insurance policies that IO accepts.

What we don’t have is actual reports from people with Pacific Cross policies with a deductible and who have received an insurance certificate. I have a PC policy with a deductible. The policy expires January 1 so I will be renewing next month. My agent has told me twice that my policy satisfies the Immigration policy. I will find out next month. Maybe someone will be able to report earlier.

[Max69xl]

56 minutes ago, Momofarang said:

For someone who is purely a retiree the answer seems obvious to me: move out to a place where you can manage a decent life end. For those like me who have strong family ties I'd expect more humanity. At least I'd have an opportunity to expose Thai inhumanity, or would it be just the epitome of xenophobia?

"For someone who is purely a retiree the answer seems obvious to me: move out to a place where you can manage a decent life end."

What are you rambling about? 

Is there something special with you compared to other retirees? Why don't you leave? Don't come with stupid advices.