Are we alive because of diet?

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, tribalfusion001 said:

Very good point. The pubs in the UK during the colder months tend to be packed with people and stuffy, no windows open, no fresh air, horrible experience sometimes. I much prefer drinking in a bar with open sides, hence why I like South East Asia.

Typical.

A good thread about the diet possibly related to low cases and UK drinking is brought up.

Is there a point where people just grow up and not think drinking is everything and makes the world go round?

[Maestro]

Removed two incomprehensible posts.

[tribalfusion001]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Typical.

A good thread about the diet possibly related to low cases and UK drinking is brought up.

Is there a point where people just grow up and not think drinking is everything and makes the world go round?

It was relevant to the point of the UK having double glazing and stale air in homes. Hence why places where people congregate have been closed.

 

If makes you feel any better I like eating in semi open places like Thai bbq's too.

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, CanadaSam said:

 

Not only that, but what difference does it make how many people are tested, because we are concerned about the huge discrepancy in the number/ratio of deaths in western countries vs third world countries. 

 

They surely can not be "hiding" the actual number of deaths in third world counties, can they?

Maybe it's something more obvious like the Chinese mainly spread the disease in the west.

You don't usually use biological weapons against your allies, only your enemies.

[Logosone]

55 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

That is one hypothesis worth considering. Spicy food, use of the wai, lower protein intake, hot climate, mass BCG immunization could also be valid hypotheses.

 

Yes, and since Nigeria, with 168 million people only has 100 cases, and thus is doing even better on the immunity front than Thailand perhaps it is also the Acha and the Tuwo Masara from Northern Nigeria and the hot air that gently caresses Nigerian manhood from beneath the long mufti gown that gives them this immunity advantage, coupled with the custom of squatting on the ground during greeting. Ohhhhhhrrrr, it could be, well, it could just be, maybe, that neither Thailand nor Nigeria, wait for it, don't bother to test if people have Covid19 to any meaningful degree.

 

 

 

 

[tribalfusion001]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe it's something more obvious like the Chinese mainly spread the disease in the west.

You don't usually use biological weapons against your allies, only your enemies.

The General Robert Spalding interview I watched last night he basically said that China let the virus spread to the west from Wuhan when internal flights were stopped but international flights carried on. He also stated that China knew of human to human transmission on 7th January and started to stock pile PPE, they are now selling the same back PPE back at a profit. China informed the WHO on 13th January and the Wuhan lockdown started on 23rd January.

Edited May 7, 2020 by tribalfusion001

[Logosone]

21 minutes ago, CanadaSam said:

 

Not only that, but what difference does it make how many people are tested, because we are concerned about the huge discrepancy in the number/ratio of deaths in western countries vs third world countries. 

 

They surely can not be "hiding" the actual number of deaths in third world counties, can they?

 

Of course it makes a difference if the people who died where never tested for Covid 19, how would they be attributed to Covid19, if they were never tested in the first place?

 

They're not 'hiding', they're just not bothering to test. How would you know if someone who died died because of Covid 19 if they were never tested for Covid19?

[dimitriv]

20 minutes ago, Youlike said:

Sweden, Japan, Belarus didn't do anything to stop the virus and they have the same numbers as other countries...

 

That is not the whole truth.

 

In Sweden they decided to let the people decide how to behave. And it is slowly getting worse. Quote:

 

"Sweden, with a population of 10 million, remains amongst the top 20 in the world when it comes to the total number of cases

...

It has higher death rates in relation to its population size than anywhere else in Scandinavia."

 

Belarus is a dictatorship, no testing, no reliable numbers.

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

I have read a fair bit into Covid-19 and seen a lot of video's and from what I see and here is, obesity has a large play in the death rates of Covi-19 worldwide, followed by underlying conditions such as high blood pressure, heart disease, kidney disease and the rest, followed by age, with most older people having underlying conditions, having being poisoned for years with sugar from my point of view which brings on these diseases.

 

Thais are not at the obesity level of westerners at the moment, also westerners are basically locked up in a prison from 9am-5pm five days a week and lack vitamin D from little exposure to the sun that they don't see, also depending on the country they live in, e.g. if it has very cold weather that doesn't help, excluding nordic countries as they have a rich diet in Omega 3 foods which help the immune system.

 

Western nations also have poor diets which affect the immune system as does the lack of vitamin D, Thai's on the other hand are exposed to the sun so they would have a good vitamin D level, eat more healthy than westerners, are less stressed and move around more than the westerners who lack exercise, that said, I also believe the climate has a lot to do with it, the humidity and temperatures in just the last few days were pretty unbearable for me, so a virus would probably die quicker than me being exposed to the same.

 

Anyways, that's my take on it.

[Relocated]

1 hour ago, CanadaSam said:

 

Is our diet saving us?

COVID and diet? It doesn't ring the bell. 

More of the method of statistics, journalistic tendency, political maneuvering and perception. 

 

[Puccini]

28 minutes ago, Youlike said:

Sweden, Japan, Belarus didn't do anything to stop the virus and they have the same numbers as other countries...

Sweden

Population: 10,333,456

Covid-19 deaths: 2941

Deaths/per million: 285

 

Thailand

Population: 69,428,453

Covid-19 deaths: 55

Deaths/per million: 0.8

 

Sources:

Population: wikipedia.org

Covid deaths: https://multimedia.scmp.com/widgets/china/wuhanvirus/

[cyril sneer]

it was higher in Italy because they have an older population who still live with their whole family in one big house

 

oh wait..

[Puccini]

36 minutes ago, CanadaSam said:

...They surely can not be "hiding" the actual number of deaths in third world counties, can they?

1. When a person infected with SARS-CoV-2 but not tested for it dies from pneumonia, they will most llikely record the death as caused by pneumonia.
2. When a person tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 dies from pneumonia or another complication of Covid-19, they may record the death as caused by pneumonia, not by Covid-19.

No deliberate hiding of Covid-19 deaths, such a lack of testing for SARS-CoV-2 in case 1 and a different way of reporting the cause of death in case 2.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

And also Nigeria and Philippines, it's the miracle of not doing any testing, here's your reason why Thailand shows low death figures, if you hardly test anything your figures will be magically low:

 

 

 

 

If there were a lot of excess deaths in Thailand due to coronavirus, permit me to doubt they could be swept under the carpet. Thai people are Olympic gold medalists when it comes to social connection. Smartphones must have been like manna from heaven for them.

[Puccini]

35 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Maybe it's something more obvious like the Chinese mainly spread the disease in the west.

You don't usually use biological weapons against your allies, only your enemies.

Italy was on of the first countries to report cases of SARS-CoV-2 infections. What makes you say that Italy is an enemy of China?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

no. i havnt eaten a single rice dish in months,

i eat spagetti potato salad and apple pie exclusively

and im no more dead then theue

One of these days, I may be able to convince you a single data point is no way to approach statistical analysis. I won't hold my breath, though.

[Skallywag]

18 minutes ago, Logosone said:

They're not 'hiding', they're just not bothering to test. How would you know if someone who died died because of Covid 19 if they were never tested for Covid19?

Agree. Just for some perspective: 8.1 deaths per 1000 per year in Thailand. Calculated out to 68,000,000 people is 544,000 deaths per year, 1490 per day. Stroke 11%, heart diseases 8%, etc... Chronic respiratory disease deaths are 10th on the list after substance abuse, diabetes, transport injuries, and neurological disorders. 

 https://www.indexmundi.com/thailand/death_rate.html

https://www.cdc.gov/globalhealth/countries/thailand/default.htm

[Puccini]

3 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

If there were a lot of excess deaths in Thailand due to coronavirus, permit me to doubt they could be swept under the carpet. Thai people are Olympic gold medalists when it comes to social connection. Smartphones must have been like manna from heaven for them.

One plausible factor could be the extent to which people who died from symptoms associated with Covid-19 were tested for the presence of SARS-CoV-2 and their deaths recorded as resulting from Covid-19.

[DaLa]

Dishwashing machines.

 

Hardly any here in LoS ergo we all wash the pots by hand many times a day. Resulting in the virus being eliminated.

 

UK , US , Europe; every other house has a dishwasher thus no hand washing. 
 

World wide, most pot washing performed by women . Result, more men catch the virus.
 

I’ll send my extensive research results to the BMJ once I’ve done tonight’s dishes.

[DaLa]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Typical.

A good thread about the diet possibly related to low cases and UK drinking is brought up.

Is there a point where people just grow up and not think drinking is everything and makes the world go round?

I have grown up now and no longer believe drinking makes the world go round. But it sure used to make the room go round when I was younger.

[puchooay]

2 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

Thailand and India, Sri Lanka,

More likely these countries don't put "Covid19" on death certificates without testing. Also that the testing levels are far lower.

[kingofthemountain]

2 hours ago, CanadaSam said:

Therefore, I wonder, is there something else in the mix which is causing such lop-sided death rates in first world countries vs third world countries?

 

The one thing that immediately springs to mind is spices, chilies, etc. which is really not used in the "western" countries to the extent that they are in third world countries, and the reason they are extensively used in cooking here is to preserve food, not allow germs/bacteria to thrive, and sometimes even for medicinal purposes from generations old recipes.

 

Is our diet saving us?

It's interesting

unfortunately it's not confirmed by a simple observation on the ground

some thais, even with their ''diet'' were contaminated

thousands of foreigners, living in thailand and not at all with a Thai ''diet''

weren't contaminated, even if a lot of them were in the ''at tisk'' group 

(Aged, overweight, drinkers, smokers, with medical history and so on)

so it's imo more the climate who protected most of the people in the country

regardless of their nationality, age, condition 

Edited May 7, 2020 by kingofthemountain

[Thrip]

Is anybody and everybody that is sick at the moment instantly diagnosed as having Covid 19? Seems bizarre that I don't know anyone with it. Seems more bizarre that a small number of people are working most days dealing with the public as cashiers etc while the rest of us are told to sit at home. They never get sick while the news tells me Covid 19 is rampaging. Why do I always see the same people being made to work when no-one else is? My eyes do not see what the news is telling me. Too much <deleted> surrounding this virus.

[Phulublub]

1 hour ago, Logosone said:

They're not 'hiding', they're just not bothering to test. How would you know if someone who died died because of Covid 19 if they were never tested for Covid19?

The best measure is to look at excess deaths. 

 

Take the current (weekly) deaths and compare with the five year average for the same weeks....gives a very good indication of deaths due to Covid. Not exactly accurate, because some people will die because they did not receive treatment for some other disease or ailment; some will die through domestic violence, or suicide brought on by lockdowns; against that, some will not die because of lockdowns.   And longer term potentially increased deaths because of poverty, obesity, or other health issues caused by extended inactivity.  But still be best measure by far.

 

PH

[Logosone]

5 minutes ago, Phulublub said:

The best measure is to look at excess deaths. 

 

Take the current (weekly) deaths and compare with the five year average for the same weeks....gives a very good indication of deaths due to Covid. Not exactly accurate, because some people will die because they did not receive treatment for some other disease or ailment; some will die through domestic violence, or suicide brought on by lockdowns; against that, some will not die because of lockdowns.   And longer term potentially increased deaths because of poverty, obesity, or other health issues caused by extended inactivity.  But still be best measure by far.

 

PH

The problem with that idea, apart from the good ones you've already identified, is that the number of deaths can vary quite widely year on year in a country of 69 million just by chance.

 

Besides, this is Thailand, for all we know they cremate some dead in some remote Buddhist temple without every logging them.

 

People have already picked up on this anomaly before in relation to the flu. They tried to study why Thais had far fewer deaths from the flu. And the academics came to the conclusion that the death figures simply did not give them sufficient data, because no testing is done for the dead if they died of the flu.

 

Same with Covid 19. Hence Thailands numbers are less than useless. No testing, you just don't know how many Covid 19 deaths there really are.

[moe666]

I liked the column in Bangkok Post a week or so ago as to why two english speaking countries had the highest virus rate than all other english speaking countries. If you guessed the US and GB you are spot on. These countries share similar governments both saying they will return their countries to once greatness, becoming the greatest again. Both of there leaders tend to be nationalist Borist is smart but a bit lazy, while Trump is a m I cannot say or I will get cut. Trump is not as smart as Boris. What else do they have in common they both think they and there countries tend to look down upon other people and countries. Both just didn't think the rules would apply to them unfortunely the virus doesn't care who you are.

[spiekerjozef]

Chili.

I'm saying this for weeks and maybe the fermented fish in sum tum.

[Logosone]

"Our estimates of influenza-associated deaths have several methodological limitations. First, the quality of mortality statistics in Thailand was considered poor because a large proportion had a poorly defined cause of death.

 

 Further, the validity of the cause of death statistics was questionable as many out-of hospital deaths were coded by persons not medically qualified to determine the cause of death.

 

Thus, misclassification of cause of death may have resulted in an underestimate of our specific mortality outcomes of interest, particularly in our excess mortality results that did not reapportion the ill-defined cause of death. 

 

The exact burden of influenza morality is difficult to estimate, and the challenges in counting influenza-associated deaths include the following: testing of hospital patients for influenza (particularly in elderly persons) is uncommon, influenza is rarely specifically recorded on death certificates, and many deaths that may be causally related to influenza occur after virus can be detected. Therefore, estimation of influenza-associated deaths or hospitalizations often relies on statistical modeling rather than on direct measurement.

 

 This assumption is based on the knowledge that deaths occurring outside the hospital are recorded by non-medical, civil registrars and based on lay reports from relatives.

 

We suspect that our rates in elderly may be an underestimation resulting from inaccurate coding of death; the high proportion of ill-defined causes of death in our data set support this theory."

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4605410/

 

So there you go, academic study trying to determine why deaths from influenza are so low in Thailand, and they're saying that we can not really say because there is no testing, the deaths are recorded by non-medics, and frankly the recording of deaths is inaccurate.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Logosone

[Lacessit]

26 minutes ago, kingofthemountain said:

It's interesting

unfortunately it's not confirmed by a simple observation on the ground

some thais, even with their ''diet'' were contaminated

thousands of foreigners, living in thailand and not at all with a Thai ''diet''

weren't contaminated, even if a lot of them were in the ''at tisk'' group 

(Aged, overweight, drinkers, smokers, with medical history and so on)

so it's imo more the climate who protected most of the people in the country

regardless of their nationality, age, condition 

Thousands of foreigners living in Thailand eat Thai food. At the risk of incurring brokenbone's wrath, I'm one of them. Diet is about 85% Thai. Love spices.

As I said before, IMO it's a happy combination of factors.

I'd certainly ascribe to the notion the very high death toll in America is partly diet-related. That, and the huge portions every restaurant there apparently have a commitment to supply.

I'm not aware of any health condition that is improved by obesity.

[Kinnock]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

That's why the only valid comparator is the number of deaths (in ratio with population).

Perhaps.  But there's been reports of death figures on US and Europe being inflated as they include unconfirmed cases plus people dying 'with' COVID not 'from' COVID.

 

Perhaps in a less scared society that is less prone to viral panic, fewer deaths are recorded as COVID?  

 

There's claims that there's been no deaths from pneumonia, cancer, TB etc., recorded in some countries since COVID started.