ON THE TILES Indoor floor tiling, wastage and labor costs?

[RubbaJohnny]

After decades she who must be obeyed wants a makeover of what seem perfectly good tiles

Well weve now had the old one foot square ones ripped up.

 

She has set her mind to hi -so 50x 50cm or 60 x 60cm type tiles, seems larger easier to clean , I can't argue with such science!

 

My Questions

 

1 For 52 square metres how many extra should I allow for breakage /cutting wastage as obvious with larger sizes less efficicnt than teh standard foot square I bought last time? These are low traffic bedrooms , suggestions not to bother under the bed received "THE LOOK".I guess 5-10% extra?

 

2 We are up country where many local tradesman from300-500 baht daily but they wish to be paid per square metre, What is the going rate , we have time to shop around but always good to get a ball park figure as when they see a farang ripping out perfectly useful tiles they realize he has "money to burn " ( or in my case a very persausive wife.

 

I seem to recall a long time ago I paid c400 all in tiles. fixing and men

 

Thanks in advance for any advice and any recommendations for brands 

 

We have a  Homemart Homeporo Watsadu etc 100km away and local builders who will order

[DrJack54]

In Oz common practice is that the owner/builder provides the tiles. The contractor provides his glue however that's not important. You can provide all.

You mentioned bedroom. Wastage can be 10% but it really depends on floor plan. I just had a living room done which was basically a rectangle and very little wastage. If you use a 600x600 that's fine however if your floorplan includes a hallway some thinking needs to be given to tile layout.

Obviously more flexible with a smaller size tile.

As for price, personally I don't work that way of trying to haggle down price. Far more important is the quality of the job. 

I wanted a all up price rather than square meter and was very happy with that. 

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by DrJack54

[canopy]

The local tradesman in my area is 80 baht/sqm to lay floor tiles not including materials. He can do quite well in a day's work at that rate as that comes out to 30 baht in his pocket each time he plops a 60x60 tile on the floor, plus grout later. Wastage and extra are not your problem, let the tradesman measure & buy the tiles. Besides that hardware stores you mention let you return whatever you want within 30 days so extra is never a problem.

 

[RubbaJohnny]

Thanks guys most helpful

[OneMoreFarang]

It seems it's a good idea that you buy the material.

Because if you give the builder "big money" for material maybe he decides first to double that money with a bet on his favorite football club. And maybe that bet doesn't work the way he thought. And then you will never see him or your money again.

[RubbaJohnny]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems it's a good idea that you buy the material.

Because if you give the builder "big money" for material maybe he decides first to double that money with a bet on his favorite football club. And maybe that bet doesn't work the way he thought. And then you will never see him or your money again.

 

Ah the voice of experience I have a cunning ruse, I plan to give him a refundable advance of ...my mother in law, guaranteed to deter any knight on the tiles.

[Cake Monster]

For what its worth.

Buy all the Materials yourself.

Make sure he Grouts the Tiles in 2 Times and not 1.

Only once and the Grout gets " sucked "under the Tiles and looks terrible when its all sunken, and in some places will be non existent

[robblok]

I would also buy materials myself (have always done so and let Thais do the work). Its not that i worried they would run with the money. But i did worry they would buy cheaper materials and glue. So if you supply good stuff it will last longer.

 

I also heard that most trades men want it per square meter. I rather pay for a good tile layer per square meter then 500-600 bt (if you can find it) idiots that do a bad job. Your going to put in tiles for year to come. Best make sure they do a good job. So its best to find someone with experience.

[OneMoreFarang]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

I would also buy materials myself (have always done so and let Thais do the work). Its not that i worried they would run with the money. But i did worry they would buy cheaper materials and glue. So if you supply good stuff it will last longer.

 

I also heard that most trades men want it per square meter. I rather pay for a good tile layer per square meter then 500-600 bt (if you can find it) idiots that do a bad job. Your going to put in tiles for year to come. Best make sure they do a good job. So its best to find someone with experience.

How do you make sure they do a good job? Because if they are paid by sqm then they have an incentive to rush. On the other hand if they are paid (well) per day then the have an incentive to maybe work slower. What is your experience? 

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

How do you make sure they do a good job? Because if they are paid by sqm then they have an incentive to rush. On the other hand if they are paid (well) per day then the have an incentive to maybe work slower. What is your experience? 

My experience is that the ones that are paid by the meter are usually guys what have done it before the 500-600 bt a day ones are just normal guys who do everything.

 

But the main thing is to ask for references or to find someone who has it done and was pleased. It always a problem finding good tradesmen. Just paying the square meter fee is not a guarantee. 

 

I had some job done well, at the home pro you could get references for tilers. I believe home pro had their own tiling service. 

[phantomfiddler]

The most important thing is to be there when they are laying the tiles. There are 2 methods. Left to their own devices they will slap a dollop of grout roughly under the centre of the tile to be laid, and then press and jiggle the tile down to it's final position. They will then do this to every tile on the floor, the end result being that you have a floor that looks fine but has NO SUPPORT under the tile corners. When enough load is applied to these areas the tile corners will crack. This is a very common method when not supervised. Ideally the tiles should be laid on a flat bed of grout which provides total support and no ensuing problems ???? Mathematically it surely cannot be rocket science to calculate how many tile you will need, knowing the dimensions of the room and the size of the tiles ????

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, phantomfiddler said:

The most important thing is to be there when they are laying the tiles. There are 2 methods. Left to their own devices they will slap a dollop of grout roughly under the centre of the tile to be laid, and then press and jiggle the tile down to it's final position. They will then do this to every tile on the floor, the end result being that you have a floor that looks fine but has NO SUPPORT under the tile corners. When enough load is applied to these areas the tile corners will crack. This is a very common method when not supervised. Ideally the tiles should be laid on a flat bed of grout which provides total support and no ensuing problems ???? Mathematically it surely cannot be rocket science to calculate how many tile you will need, knowing the dimensions of the room and the size of the tiles ????

Interesting comment.

 

Some time ago I watched a couple of videos on YouTube about laying tiles. It seems an important part is that the floor is 100% flat before the tiles are laid. And some other details. Summary: It's not easy.

Extended summary: If it's done wrong it is a lot of work to get those new tiles out again (by smashing them and and and) and do it all from scratch again.

 

[andygrr]

Who is removing the old tiles and making good before laying the new tiles.

[khunPer]

Often a deal is that you buy tiles, and cement + sand, and grout, and pay per square meter for the work, plus per running meter for borders, stair-nose and other special work.

 

Count 10-15 percent extra for tiles, 15 percent if diamond pattern. I used to round up a bit, an extra box of tiles is Okay to store, should some later need to be replaced for whatever reason.

 

From my experience, a good tile layer would charge around 200 baht per square meter, all depending of the size of the total work, i.e. more if it's a small job, or if tiles are going to be carried up to third floor etc., which could be 250 baht per square meter. Borders and stair nose etc. would be about 100 to 150 baht per running meter.

[canopy]

15 hours ago, robblok said:

But the main thing is to ask for references or to find someone who has it done and was pleased. It always a problem finding good tradesmen. Just paying the square meter fee is not a guarantee. 

 

This is the best advice of all. If it's a bad job it doesn't matter how much or little you paid, it's not worth it. Ask to see an example of their work. If it's bad, move on. If it's good say you expect that level quality as a minimum requirement and identify any iffy areas and say you wouldn't accept that.

 

[brianthainess]

12 hours ago, andygrr said:

Who is removing the old tiles and making good before laying the new tiles.

Twas thinking that myself.

[sandyf]

On 1/23/2021 at 3:43 PM, RubbaJohnny said:

Thanks guys most helpful

You need to be careful which tiles are used. The cheaper ones are not sealed properly and can led to problems down the line.

I specified the tiles for my floors, 60x60 beige granite,  and the builder pointed out to me it was a poor choice and explained why. I went to the builders merchant with him to choose another brand.

[Farma]

We're currently building with around 280 sqm floor tiles being laid as I type. Its all part of the deal but we upgraded our contract spec tiles to larger better quality ones. There's a mix of smooth internal and non-slip for balconies.

 

The tiler is working alone and its taking time. He did have another with him when they were doing the bathrooms. We asked why he was working alone. He said he didn't trust his helper with the more expensive tiles we bought. ????

[OneMoreFarang]

10 minutes ago, Farma said:

The tiler is working alone and its taking time. He did have another with him when they were doing the bathrooms. We asked why he was working alone. He said he didn't trust his helper with the more expensive tiles we bought. ????

 

It seems a general problem with many builders in Thailand is that only the main builder is qualified. And depending on how many jobs he has an how greedy he is he will have some or lots of "nongs" who work for him. He charges obviously the same but he hires cheap workers.

I don't say that happens all the time. But it happens often enough to be an issue to be aware of. 

[mogandave]

9 hours ago, brianthainess said:

Twas thinking that myself.

 

Typically this is the same contractor that lays the tile, albeit often different crews...

 

You can always get the young motorcycle taxi guys to tear out the existing, and get the old motorcycle taxi guys to lay the new tile. 

[stubuzz]

Are baseboard/edging tiles available here?

[4MyEgo]

On 1/22/2021 at 9:59 PM, RubbaJohnny said:

2 We are up country where many local tradesman from300-500 baht daily but they wish to be paid per square metre, What is the going rate , we have time to shop around but always good to get a ball park figure as when they see a farang ripping out perfectly useful tiles they realize he has "money to burn " ( or in my case a very persausive wife.

 

Living up country or in a village shouldn't be too hard to find a good tiler, as was our experience.

 

80 baht is the going rate in our village but the tiler wanted 100, and as we have used him before a decade ago to tile our bungalow and liked his work, it was a no brainer, 80 square metres of area for an extra 1,600 baht, not an issue.

 

Buy all the materials and tiles yourself.

 

I remember in 2006 in Oz, I paid just over 1,000 baht a tile 300 x 600 sandstone looking and it cost me the same per square metre to lay them.

 

Who said Thailand was expensive ?

[steve187]

things to be aware of tiling in Thailand are,

they do not use a 3mm expansion/ grout joint, this is a must to avoid tiles popping/tenting  - see attached photo

porcelain tiles do not stick to a sand and cement bed, they require adhesive suitable for porcelain and require the adhesive to be spread on the floor and back buttered on the rear of the tile. see here - https://bit.ly/3a3Q6Hx

 

 

they cut the tiles with a grinder instead of a dry cutter, porcelain chips very easily 

 

a room should be set out with equal sized cuts to opposing walls, ie set out from the centre and see what cuts you have to the outside walls. (find the centre of the room and measure out 600mm spaces leaving an equal biggish cut to the outside then count the 600mm squares, if you end up with a smallish cut then straddle the centre, ie start from 300mm from the centre with the 600mm marking out,) there you have the amount of tiles required

good luck

[JAS21]

Mine popped up in the Maids Room last week....not as bad as the above picture. House was built in 2004.

 

Luckily it was only the tiles in those three rows that sounded hollow when I tapped. I managed to get the grout out with a Stanley Knife, using the blade which had a hook shape. There was an OK gap in some rows but not in others. Luckily didn't break any tiles.

 

It does look, first picture, like a little movement but after removal of 1cm, to give room to bed the tiles back in, probably not ..No I didn't do the 'digging out' paid someone. Cut parallel lines with a small grinder and then used a big hammer drill. I lent him my N95 mask! I managed to find a piece of wood 9mm thick and taped it to the bottom of the straight edge that you can see in the second pic. There is just clearance everywhere. The surface is not as bad a it looks, ( shadow makes it look bad)I don't think it is necessary to skim...just a bit more surface area for the tile adhesive to cling too!...I decided to use the standard adhesive and not what they called the gold...just incase the problem re-occurs at some future date.

 

But I will put the tiles back myself and make the gaps equal... have done quite a bit of tiling both here and in the UK over the years.. 

 

The other option would have been to level the floor ie fill in where the tiles were removed and tile over everywhere ... might actually have been the easier option.

 

 

 

[UbonEagle]

Yep as many have said, select your own tiles and buy, or let them know the exact ones you want.

Tiles are cheap anyway, even for premium product, and in my experience the tradies generally do excellent work.

 

Their 1 archilles heal is often running levels for wet areas, bathrooms generally ok (usually excessive slope) but for outdoor work they usually don't give a 2nd thought to getting the water away, i guess they just think no matter it will dry up soo enough haha.

[canopy]

2 minutes ago, UbonEagle said:

for outdoor work they usually don't give a 2nd thought to getting the water away,

 

For sure. The number of women that spend their time sweeping water off low spots with brooms after each rain is mind boggling because it is is all so unnecessary and avoidable if just the slightest thought went into the job. But it's just normal and accepted here.

 

[sanuk711]

On 1/22/2021 at 5:59 PM, RubbaJohnny said:

2 We are up country where many local tradesman from300-500 baht daily but they wish to be paid per square metre, 

 

We have a  Homemart Homeporo Watsadu etc 100km away and local builders who will order

Where is "Up Country"?  if you are Udon way--I  can recommend a good husband/wife tiling team..... The Home-mart etc stores will give you some contacts if you ask.

[scorecard]

On 1/23/2021 at 8:11 PM, OneMoreFarang said:

It seems it's a good idea that you buy the material.

Because if you give the builder "big money" for material maybe he decides first to double that money with a bet on his favorite football club. And maybe that bet doesn't work the way he thought. And then you will never see him or your money again.

Most of my buddies and son's Thai in-laws buy the materials, pay the tradesman an initial approx. 2,000Baht to buy other needs then pay per day if agreed square footage has been achieved.

 

Son's MIL, pleasant old lady (upper Essan location) went one better (because of her and others experiences) when she built a new house.

 

She had her son calculate the building materials needed, she bought it.

 

Tile layer went with her to Global / Thai Watsadu, tile layer ordered what he wanted and son's MIL paid for it. Her son was there to agree/disagree quantities.

 

Every morning a discussion of the daily goal, on paper and signed. If achieved a daily payment at end of the day.

 

Bonus paid when totally completed and some work redone. 

[OneMoreFarang]

16 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

Where is "Up Country"? 

It starts about 10km away from the latest BTS or MRT station in Bangkok ???? 

[RubbaJohnny]

Ducks in Line Cash Wife to schedule Tiles ordered on sale or return (unused boxes) 

All in about $10 a square metre .

 

Thanks for all tips 

 

GROUT EXPECT ASIANS  !