If Senate does not convict Trump, 'he can do this again,' Democrats warn

[webfact]

If Senate does not convict Trump, 'he can do this again,' Democrats warn

By David Morgan and Richard Cowan

 

FILE PHOTO: Police release tear gas into a crowd of pro-Trump protesters during clashes at a rally to contest the certification of the 2020 U.S. presidential election results by the U.S. Congress, at the U.S. Capitol Building in Washington, U.S, January 6, 2021. REUTERS/Shannon Stapleton/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Democratic prosecutors making the case that Donald Trump incited a deadly insurrection by encouraging his supporters to march on the U.S. Capitol warned the Senate on Thursday that if it fails to convict the former president, "he can do this again."

 

The first three days of Trump's impeachment trial focused on his fiery words to supporters in the weeks leading up to the Jan. 6 attack, when he falsely claimed that his election defeat by Democrat Joe Biden was the result of fraud and that the crowd needed to "fight" and "stop the steal."

 

The Democrats appear highly unlikely to secure a conviction and bar Trump from ever again holding public office given that only six Republicans voted with Democrats in the 100-seat chamber to proceed with the trial.

 

"If he gets back into office and it happens again, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves," lead impeachment manager Representative Jamie Raskin told the Senate on Thursday, wrapping up the prosecution arguments.

 

Fellow Democratic Representative Ted Lieu told the senators he worries about what would happen if Trump runs in 2024 and loses.

 

"I’m not afraid of Donald Trump running again in four years. I’m afraid he’s going to run again and lose, because he can do this again," Lieu said.

 

The Democratic prosecutors provided example after example of Trump's actions prior to the rampage to illustrate what he intended when he told supporters to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell" as Congress convened to certify Biden's election victory.

 

"Jan. 6 was not some unexpected radical break from his normal law-abiding and peaceful disposition. ... This was his essential M.O.," Raskin said, using shorthand for modus operandi.

 

"He knew that egged on by his tweets, his lies and his promise of a 'wild' time in Washington to guarantee his grip on power, his most extreme followers would show up bright and early, ready to attack, ready to engage in violence, ready to 'fight like hell' for their hero," he said.

 

The Democratic-led House on Jan. 13 charged Trump with inciting an insurrection. His term ended on Jan. 20.

 

A two-thirds majority in the Senate would be needed to convict, which means at least 17 Republican senators would have to defy Trump, who remains popular with most Republican voters and has shown interest in running for president again in 2024.

 

Dozens of former Republican officials who said they are frustrated with their party's unwillingness to stand up to Trump are in talks to form a center-right breakaway party, four people involved in the discussions told Reuters.

 

MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE

The nine House impeachment managers have argued that Trump planted the seeds for the riot by encouraging violence and making false claims about widespread electoral fraud long before Jan. 6, and must be held accountable for what happened.

 

Five people including a police officer died in the riot. Two more police officers involved in the response died by suicide in the days afterward.

 

Although the prosecutors' arguments were generally praised by both parties, some Republican senators said they were still not convinced.

 

During a break in the proceedings on Thursday, Senator James Lankford told reporters that the managers failed to connect the dots between Trump and the rioters.

 

Senator James Inhofe said: "It's just redundant, the same thing over and over again. ... To me, the more you hear it, the less credibility there is in it."

 

Trump adviser Jason Miller said on Twitter that the defense would wrap up its case on Friday, and some Republican senators said they expected the proceedings to end on Saturday.

 

Looking ahead to Trump's defense, the House managers disagreed that his incendiary language is protected by the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which protects free speech.

 

"The First Amendment does not create some superpower immunity from impeachment for a president who attacks the Constitution in word and deed while rejecting the outcome of an election," Raskin said.

 

The House managers spent much of Wednesday recounting the events that led to the riot and highlighting the threat to lawmakers and to Mike Pence, Trump's vice president, including searing security footage.

 

White House press secretary Jen Psaki said Biden watched some of the video on Thursday morning, adding: "Anyone who watched that video ... found it harrowing and deeply disturbing. That's certainly how the president felt."

 

In a separate court case, federal prosecutors said on Thursday that anti-government "Oath Keepers" militia members devised elaborate plans to storm the Capitol on Jan. 6 and plotted to have an armed "quick reaction force" staged outside the city ready "to fight hand to hand" if ordered by Trump.

 

    Trump is the first U.S. president to be impeached twice and the first to face trial after leaving office. His first impeachment trial, which stemmed from his efforts to pressure Ukraine to investigate Biden, ended in an acquittal a year ago in what was then a Republican-controlled Senate.

 

On Thursday, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer left open the possibility that Congress might seek a different way to punish Trump if the Senate acquits him. That includes potentially invoking the Constitution's 14th Amendment, which gives Congress the power to bar public officials from holding office if they engaged in insurrection or rebellion.

 

(Reporting by Rick Cowan, David Morgan, Susan Cornwell and Makini Brice; Additional reporting by Doina Chiacu and Tim Reid; Writing by John Whitesides and Sonya Hepinstall; Editing by Scott Malone, Will Dunham and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-02-12

 

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[mtls2005]

Just now, webfact said:

'he can do this again,'

 

Or some other republican - cruz, hawley, etc. - will lose and do it again.

 

That's why we enforce laws, both to punish miscreants and discourage future crimes.

 

 

[OneMoreFarang]

I understand that especially the GOP politicians want power and money.

But do they really want it at any price?

I.e. if I would look for a new job and I would have one offer with a reasonable salary and a reasonable boss. And another offer with a high salary but an a@$#$ as boss. Which one would I chose? No question: the reasonable option.

Who wants to live and work for years under the control of an a@$#$?

Even GOP politicians should be smart enough to understand this.

[sirineou]

It is not about trump, He might have a base, but that's not enough, After all that happened in his administration, He could not be elected dogcatcher in a general election.

The problem is that there are a whole bunch of other trump wannabes, and if trump is not held accountable, they might think that they can get away with it also.  

[darksidedog]

It's difficult to work out what goes on in the minds of the brainwashed, or those who will use anything to claw their way up to the top.

I think the GOP is doing itself untold damage, with some trying to pull it back towards the centre, while the others are hellbent on pushing even further to the right.

At the core of this is the mainstay of democracy and the operations we use to keep it in place. Decent minded people value that institution, and those who would seek to destroy, or pervert it, you would hope will find it very difficult to get re-elected.

America has become the laughing stock of the world for what was allowed to happen. It is essential that it can never be allowed to happen again.

[ExpatOK]

The Democrats are absolutely right: If President Trump is not convicted he can be reelected and in fact will be, assuming a fair election.

 

 

[simple1]

1 minute ago, ExpatOK said:

The Democrats are absolutely right: If President Trump is not convicted he can be reelected and in fact will be, assuming a fair election.

 Already Republicans are trying to set up further suppression of voters, if they have their way 'fair elections' with not occur.

 

IN STATE after state, Republicans are responding to the 2020 election not by rethinking the candidates they run and the policies they espouse, but by trying to make it harder to vote.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republican-voter-suppression-laws-montana-arizona/2021/02/09/95297ab6-6a5e-11eb-ba56-d7e2c8defa31_story.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_opinions&utm_campaign=wp_opinions

[ExpatOK]

6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

 Already Republicans are trying to set up further suppression of voters, if they have their way 'fair elections' with not occur.

 

IN STATE after state, Republicans are responding to the 2020 election not by rethinking the candidates they run and the policies they espouse, but by trying to make it harder to vote.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/republican-voter-suppression-laws-montana-arizona/2021/02/09/95297ab6-6a5e-11eb-ba56-d7e2c8defa31_story.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_opinions&utm_campaign=wp_opinions

Washington Post. Right...

[simple1]

1 minute ago, ExpatOK said:

Washington Post. Right...

 

Washington Post is accepted as a credible source for TVF. What are your credible sources or will you be the usual right of centre commentator refusing to confirm?

[Tug]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I understand that especially the GOP politicians want power and money.

But do they really want it at any price?

I.e. if I would look for a new job and I would have one offer with a reasonable salary and a reasonable boss. And another offer with a high salary but an a@$#$ as boss. Which one would I chose? No question: the reasonable option.

Who wants to live and work for years under the control of an a@$#$?

Even GOP politicians should be smart enough to understand this.

I think it’s the power that attracts them not the salary unfortunately imo the republican senators are to worried about their positions to do what’s obviously the right thing (convict).their votes will be recorded and that friend is very powerful ammunition in a re election.I think we are watching the Republican Party sielf destructing before our eyes 

[J Town]

It's become clear the Republican party is shattering into several splinter groups. The former president has discussed creating his own party, and other Republicans who still have their brains and their souls are discussing doing the same.

 

Former Republican officials float possibility of forming 'center-right' party - CNNPolitics

 

Either way, the party as it currently exists is an embarrassment. I sincerely hope both of the above happen. The US needs more than a two-party system.

[Eric Loh]

Trump wouldn't be around in 2024, the party is splitting, his base is shrinking and he will never win back the surbanites and blacks. He can only do this again by being the Osama of the domestic terrorist groups. He is a spent force and will fade away into the sunset and lick his wounds. 

[Berkshire]

16 minutes ago, J Town said:

It's become clear the Republican party is shattering into several splinter groups. The former president has discussed creating his own party, and other Republicans who still have their brains and their souls are discussing doing the same.

 

Former Republican officials float possibility of forming 'center-right' party - CNNPolitics

 

Either way, the party as it currently exists is an embarrassment. I sincerely hope both of the above happen. The US needs more than a two-party system.

You're right, the GOP is a complete mess right now.  They've got the Trump/MTG wing (read nutbags) and everyone else.  But the latter is scared shtless of the former's base.  It's on full display right now with the senate trial.  There was a couple of prominent Republicans on CNN this morning who said that if the impeachment trial was a secret ballot, Trump would be convicted by 90 to 10.  So much for doing their "constitutional duty."

[J Town]

It's come out that the former president tweeted condemnation towards Pence ten minutes after being told Pence's life was in danger!

 

How can ANYONE still defend this monster's actions?

 

https://god.dailydot.com/trump-attack-pence-evacuation/?fbclid=IwAR35phEOSAV5rXAg4ccC74EuONUVAmxZtnXAVEIGV_Hcsy-j9zW-V8zrZMY

[cmarshall]

 

6 minutes ago, J Town said:

It's come out that the former president tweeted condemnation towards Pence ten minutes after being told Pence's life was in danger!

 

How can ANYONE still defend this monster's actions?

 

https://god.dailydot.com/trump-attack-pence-evacuation/?fbclid=IwAR35phEOSAV5rXAg4ccC74EuONUVAmxZtnXAVEIGV_Hcsy-j9zW-V8zrZMY

 

Trump's playbook was to provoke a riot that resulted in a massacre whether of members of Congress or the Vice President hardly mattered.  He was then going to declare martial law and stop the inauguration.  That was the reason that he replaced the confirmed Secretary of Defense with a faceless stooge immediately after the election in Nov.  General and pardoned felon Mike Flynn called openly for Trump to declare martial law on Dec. 17.  

 

The military and others were aware of this plan.  That was the reason that all ten living former Secretaries of Defense published a letter on Jan. 4 warning the military that any members who interfered with the handover of power would face severe punishment including prison.  

 

The military apparently wasn't willing to go along which led Trump to incite an attack against Congress as the fuse to set off the bomb of martial law.  So, of course, Trump wasn't going to send in the National Guard to stop the attack until the VP or others had been killed.

[Jeffr2]

4 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

The Democrats are absolutely right: If President Trump is not convicted he can be reelected and in fact will be, assuming a fair election.

 

 

Please don't suggest there was election fraud. That's a conspiracy theory.

[Jeffr2]

3 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Washington Post. Right...

One of the best media outlets. Unless you've been brainwashed by Trump and the fake news outlets.

[Jingthing]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Trump wouldn't be around in 2024, the party is splitting, his base is shrinking and he will never win back the surbanites and blacks. He can only do this again by being the Osama of the domestic terrorist groups. He is a spent force and will fade away into the sunset and lick his wounds. 

He never had blacks in the first place. I disagree with you if you think Mr. trump can't be a future threat. He's way ahead already in the 2024 nominating contest. Remember he's great at dividing and conquering. If he's nominated then on to authoritarian insurrection 2.0.

Edited February 12, 2021 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

3 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

One of the best media outlets. Unless you've been brainwashed by Trump and the fake news outlets.

Absolutely and also they do include a range of political views in their opinion section. 

[Jingthing]

2 hours ago, J Town said:

It's come out that the former president tweeted condemnation towards Pence ten minutes after being told Pence's life was in danger!

 

How can ANYONE still defend this monster's actions?

 

https://god.dailydot.com/trump-attack-pence-evacuation/?fbclid=IwAR35phEOSAV5rXAg4ccC74EuONUVAmxZtnXAVEIGV_Hcsy-j9zW-V8zrZMY

Someone obviously can as the pathetic fearful republican senators will soon acquit him.

[animalmagic]

5 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I understand that especially the GOP politicians want power and money.

But do they really want it at any price?

I.e. if I would look for a new job and I would have one offer with a reasonable salary and a reasonable boss. And another offer with a high salary but an a@$#$ as boss. Which one would I chose? No question: the reasonable option.

Who wants to live and work for years under the control of an a@$#$?

Even GOP politicians should be smart enough to understand this.

Reason doesn't often apply to politicians and their actions; self interest seems to be the guiding emotion.

[Berkshire]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He never had blacks in the first place. I disagree with you if you think Mr. trump can't be a future threat. He's way ahead already in the 2024 nominating contest. Remember he's great at dividing and conquering. If he's nominated then on to authoritarian insurrection 2.0.

You're like many Democrats who are still living in 2016 and terrified of Trump making a comeback.  I'm not worried about it.  2020 is a much better gauge for 2024.  If an incumbent President with a 90% approval rating within his party can't win a general election, what chance does he have as a challenger?  And after what happened to Pence, who the heck would want to be his running mate?  Relax.  The GOP is self-destructing on its own. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

You're like many Democrats who are still living in 2016 and terrified of Trump making a comeback.  I'm not worried about it.  2020 is a much better gauge for 2024.  If an incumbent President with a 90% approval rating within his party can't win a general election, what chance does he have as a challenger?  And after what happened to Pence, who the heck would want to be his running mate?  Relax.  The GOP is self-destructing on its own. 

Just speculation. He's still ruling the republican party. At this point its impossible to predict how this will shake out.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

The Democrats are absolutely right: If President Trump is not convicted he can be reelected and in fact will be, assuming a fair election.

Trump lost by a large margin in the 2020 election, which was clearly fair.

[Jeffr2]

Trump is still the leader of the GOP. Purely out of fear.

 

If he runs in 2024, he'll lose as his opponent will be Kamala Harris. Who will be coming off a huge win in dealing with the virus. Hopefully....

 

But who knows. A lot can happen between now and then.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Trump is still the leader of the GOP. Purely out of fear.

 

If he runs in 2024, he'll lose as his opponent will be Kamala Harris. Who will be coming off a huge win in dealing with the virus. Hopefully....

 

But who knows. A lot can happen between now and then.

A lot can happen in a day. 

[Salerno]

13 minutes ago, klauskunkel said:

It's not "President Trump", but Former President, or Ex-President, or Past President, or Has Been President, or Presidential Election Loser Trump

 

Just because someone is disliked doesn't mean the honorific is changed.

[Jeffr2]

8 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Just because someone is disliked doesn't mean the honorific is changed.

But he's right. It's no longer President Trump.

[Salerno]

1 minute ago, Jeffr2 said:

But he's right. It's no longer President Trump.

 

No, he's wrong, it's still President Trump. He's just not THE President.

 

Edited February 12, 2021 by Salerno

[candide]

6 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Or some other republican - cruz, hawley, etc. - will lose and do it again.

 

That's why we enforce laws, both to punish miscreants and discourage future crimes.

 

 

I can imagine Cruz, a few months before 2024 elections: "We've been cheated in 2020, it won't happen again! We will fight!"