Neighbor takes over land that does not belong to him . What to do ?

[nobodysfriend]

Were we are living there is a big plot of about 20 rai of partly forested land . It has been sold to by  a neighbor to  someone who apparently died in the meantime . This one did never sell it again , and it is not clear if someone inherited it . Nobody did ever care for this land or even visited it . ( afaik ) It has a border to 12 rai of our land . I regularly cross this plot to take my dogs for a walk .

One of our neighbors started to cut the trees and to make a soi on this land . Now she complains that I pass with my dogs , because it is ' HER ' land , she says . But I know that it has never been sold , because I tried to buy it some years ago , but it was not possible as the owner was already sick and did not respond .

I will go and check the legal title with the local land office , but I know already that is is not the one who takes it now , who is registered as the owner .

What else can I do ?

[4MyEgo]

Get the wife to check with the head of the village, he or she usually knows when land changes hands, that or the LTO

[phetphet]

Maybe she is thinking that she can gain ownership by right of possession of unclaimed land by occupying it for a period of time.

 

[nobodysfriend]

Just now, 4MyEgo said:

Get the wife to check with the head of the village, he or she usually knows when land changes hands, that or the LTO

That is right .

The only problem is that the ' Kamnan ' is a member of the family of the neighbor ...

[tonray]

8 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

What else can I do ?

You can stay off land that clearly does not belong to you. As to matters of Thai ownership, stay clear as it's not your business even though you seem to believe you have an easement to traverse the property, which you do not.

[nobodysfriend]

Just now, phetphet said:

Maybe she is thinking that she can gain ownership by right of possession of unclaimed land by occupying it for a period of time.

 

I think that is exactly what happens .

[nobodysfriend]

4 minutes ago, tonray said:

You can stay off land that clearly does not belong to you. As to matters of Thai ownership, stay clear as it's not your business even though you seem to believe you have an easement to traverse the property, which you do not.

Yes , I have probably no legal right to even cross this property as it does not belong to me .

But , at least , I do not cut the trees . The neighbor who takes it now , does a lot of damage and does not have the right to do this either .

I have been crossing this property for 5 yrs now . Nobody ever was there to complain about this . Until now .

Edited June 12, 2021 by nobodysfriend

[tonray]

Just now, nobodysfriend said:

Yes , I have probably no legal right to even cross this property as it does not belong to me .

But , at least , I do not cut the trees . The neighbor who takes it now , does a lot of damage and does not have the right to do this either .

Agreed...but if you want to stay safe in Thailand....you should steer clear of getting involved in Thai property squabbles....advice that will prevent next year's post "I am not safe on my own land and worry I'll be killed while I sleep"

[Henryford]

Why do you care if a Thai steals a piece of land.

[nobodysfriend]

3 minutes ago, tonray said:

Agreed...but if you want to stay safe in Thailand....you should steer clear of getting involved in Thai property squabbles....advice that will prevent next year's post "I am not safe on my own land and worry I'll be killed while I sleep"

Yes , always a ' farang ' in Thailand has to be aware of the fact , that is always the thai person who is right , and never the farang himself . Second class citizens in a third world corrupt country ... I better do not forget this .

Your advice is right ...!

[nobodysfriend]

4 minutes ago, Henryford said:

Why do you care if a Thai steals a piece of land.

I was just used to cross this land for 5 yrs already , until a  ' thief ' tells me that she does not want me to do this anymore .

[tonray]

Just now, nobodysfriend said:

Yes , always a ' farang ' in Thailand has to be aware of the fact , that is always the thai person who is right , and never the farang himself . Second class citizens in a third world corrupt country ... I better do not forget this .

Your advice is right ...!

Just the way it is....no national (especially Thai) wants a foreigner involved in their business, right or wrong....'we' can never understand the 'Thai' way I've been told many times.

[ezzra]

It seems that the is a collusion between the Kamnan and the  encroaching party, if you do decide to act on it, either hire a proxy like a lawyer to inquire at the Amphe's land department as to legal owners of said land's owners and what status it is in and take from there, and if a foul play are a foot here a complaint to the police could be in order but this is a murky waters you'd be waded into...

Edited June 12, 2021 by ezzra

[Bundooman]

8 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Yes , always a ' farang ' in Thailand has to be aware of the fact , that is always the thai person who is right , and never the farang himself . Second class citizens in a third world corrupt country ... I better do not forget this .

Your advice is right ...!

You are absolutely right.

You are, by choice (and by your own definition), "a Second class citizen in a third world corrupt country ..."

You seem to be forgetting that.

Others are giving you advice, but you don't appear to like that advice.

They are right. It is none of your concern, as long as it doesn't affect you or your family, or your property.

It's the same in any country. Particularly '1st world countries'.

[nobodysfriend]

2 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

Others are giving you advice, but you don't appear to like that advice.

I like all constructive input in this topic , no matter if it is negative or positive ...

I'll make a detour to avoid crossing this land in the future , it is just a little inconvenient after 5 yrs ... I will let the thief win and take it , because I do not want my dogs to be killed with poison , as it happened before already ...

[CharlieH]

The "owner" is whoever has lawful posession of the title deed, and you cannot possibly know who that is. The fact they may not have bothered to "register" it yet is typical Thai "mai pben rai" and they will do it when needed/required..

 

Pure speculation by the OP.

 

[RobMuir]

18 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Get the wife to check with the head of the village, he or she usually knows when land changes hands, that or the LTO

Or he could just be a man and check himself. Why the need to get the wife involved?

 

Personally I think he will find it is private land, owned by a relative of the deceased and he will be making a fool of himself.

 

He can find out a lot more about this land on the website I have kindly linked below. Easy to do as his land borders it. He just needs to enter his chanote number which is on the top right hand of the front page of the chanote. 

Then just call the land office and ask them who owns it. They always know and have the ID of the owner and phone number.

Then call the owner and ask them what is going on.

 

http://dolwms.dol.go.th/tvwebp/

 

 

 

[ThailandRyan]

39 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Yes , I have probably no legal right to even cross this property as it does not belong to me .

But , at least , I do not cut the trees . The neighbor who takes it now , does a lot of damage and does not have the right to do this either .

I have been crossing this property for 5 yrs now . Nobody ever was there to complain about this . Until now .

Place a call to the Government hotline and dime her off.  Tell them there is illegal cutting of trees and I am sure someone in a official capacity will come on by,  Not anyone can have a chainsaw, although they are readily available from my understanding.

[nobodysfriend]

5 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

Personally I think he will find it is private land, owned by a relative of the deceased and he will be making a fool of himself.

I went to the land office some yrs ago and was told the name of the owner . ( Not a relative of the one who takes over ) . I am sure that it is still the same name ( of the now deceased ) that is registered . But I will go and check again .

 

[ChipButty]

If you want to spend the rest of your life in peace then keep your nose out, Im sure the dogs wont mind 

[Old Croc]

55 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

I regularly cross this plot to take my dogs for a walk .

Can't you walk your dogs elsewhere?

Is it really worth getting into a potential serious squabble just because you like to use someone else's land to exercise your animals? 

[northsouthdevide]

Just walk a different rout with your dogs.

Her land or not, it's definitely not yours, so just leave it there.

Its not worth the headache of falling out with your neighbours.

[scorecard]

51 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Get the wife to check with the head of the village, he or she usually knows when land changes hands, that or the LTO

 

But perhaps check the land title document first to ensure you have very correct & up to date information of who is currently recorded as the owner on the land document.

 

Take smartphone photo if the LTO won't allow you to have a photocopy of the document.

 

Then show a copy to the village head, and then seek his/her advice. 

 

Good luck.

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

If you want to spend the rest of your life in peace then keep your nose out, Im sure the dogs wont mind 

 

Yep, there must be other places to walk the dogs. 

[RobMuir]

13 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

The "owner" is whoever has lawful posession of the title deed, and you cannot possibly know who that is. 

 

 

It is actually very easy to find out.

 

1) open this website 

http://dolwms.dol.go.th/tvwebp/

 

2)enter your chanote 

 

3) copy the numbers down of the bordering land 

 

4)call the land office and ask them for the owners phone number

 

5) call the owner 

 

Will take about an hour all up.

 

From the website it will come like this, below, with all the details that you give over the phone to the land office.

 

 

 

[KarenBravo]

40 minutes ago, ezzra said:

It seems that the is a collusion between the Kamnan and the  encroaching party, if you do decide to act on it, either hire a proxy like a lawyer to inquire at the Amphe's land department as to legal owners of said land's owners and what status it is in and take from there, and if a foul play are a foot here a complaint to the police could be in order but this is a murky waters you'd be waded into...

 

........and if you do hire a lawyer, make sure that they are not local. Collusion between lawyers and defendants is rife. Also, if they hire a local lawyer, the two lawyers will know each other and make sure they both make money and that will be yours.

Hire a lawyer from Bangkok.

[NanLaew]

21 minutes ago, Sticky Rice Balls said:

22 minutes ago, RobMuir said:

 

It is actually very easy to find out.

 

1) open this website 

http://dolwms.dol.go.th/tvwebp/

 

2)enter your chanote 

 

3) copy the numbers down of the bordering land 

 

4)call the land office and ask them for the owners phone number

 

5) call the owner 

 

Will take about an hour all up.

 

From the website it will come like this, below, with all the details that you give over the phone to the land office.

 

 

 

Expand  Expand  

#6 Get a new sim card

 

Does this new fangled G5 network connect with the afterlife?

 

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

It has been sold to by  a neighbor to  someone who apparently died in the meantime .

 

[ChipButty]

It's a good idea to have some good Thai friends around you let them sort it out, Thai's like nothing more than smashing a farang over the head for poking his nose into Thai business,

I have a couple of good neighbours (Thai) who are right onto anything going on 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, nobodysfriend said:

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

Get the wife to check with the head of the village, he or she usually knows when land changes hands, that or the LTO

That is right .

The only problem is that the ' Kamnan ' is a member of the family of the neighbor ...

 

With this revelation, I reckon you have pretty much closed all the doors on solving your "problem".

[4MyEgo]

32 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

I went to the land office some yrs ago and was told the name of the owner . ( Not a relative of the one who takes over ) . I am sure that it is still the same name ( of the now deceased ) that is registered . But I will go and check again .

 

 

My wife has a few land plots around the village, she has aloud the guy who built our place and who still does work for us when we can get our hands on him as he is always busy with work, to build a makeshift place on her land so that he has somewhere to park himself, i.e. after his wife through him out of her house, so not unusual to see someone else on someone else's land. 

 

My wife has gotten village talk back asking how much she sold the land to him for, asked why, oh because he said he bought it from you, with her reply being, he got it at a good price and left it at that. I suppose he doesn't want to lose face or something like that, even grows rice on it during the season as my wife does nothing with it.

 

Now before anyone jumps to conclusions, no he is not my wife's ex....lol, he is the wife's sister's boyfriend or friend with benefits as he sleeps at her place at night a couple of ploys up from my wife's land.

 

So as I said, not unusual to see someone else on someone land, also her parents lease out their rice fields to the neighbour as they are too old to do the rice themselves.