The true cost of paradise.

[swissie]

I have alwas kept close contact to my Farang Friends in Thailand. As by any "vicious-force" a good number of them have started to suffer from various health problems within the last 3 months or so. Ranging from respiratory problems to cardiovascular problems all the way to a 3-year infected left foot that will have to be amputated as a last resort. Most of them have no Health-Insurance of any kind. Understandable, as the monthly premium for a private health-insurance is prohibitive, easily eating up half of the pension-money coming from the "old country".

Often times, I have (with my pocket calculator) outlined to my Farang Friends that "cheap-living" in Thailand comes to an end  when (uninsured) hospitalizations comes into play.

The standart reply usually was: "I came here to enjoy my last years of my life and I will be happy to die here".
- But as soon as hospitalized with a serious condition, "the will to live" emerges with a vengeance. The fatalistic "I will be happy to die here" seem to fade quickly. Quite the opposite. If money can cure the illness, the (unisured) Farang will ask for support from their Thai-Family first. Later from his local "Farang-Friends" as a last reasort, as the "Thai-Family" is chronically financially "overextended".

Conclusion: Add US$ 500 to your monthly expenses (health-insurance). An then I will be willing to discuss the matter of "cheap-living" in Thailand once more. Equipped with my pocket calculator. Wanting to calculate "the true cost of "paradise".
Cheers.

 

[The Cipher]

Health insurance costs $500/mth? Jeez that's rough. Getting old is the worst. ????

[wasabi]

I agree you should not live in Thailand without health insurance, but covering both my wife and I with high deductible insurance is less than $100 a month for us. This is US Based Blue Cross insurance and it does work in Thailand for emergencies.

[BangkokReady]

10 minutes ago, josthomz said:

 

Is that not the same as smokers when they are perfectly healthy ("Sooner or later I will die anyway") VS when they get diagnosed with cancer ("Argh, fuc***ing tobbaco, I can't believe am dying shoulda quit earlier")...

 

 

 

 

Not really.  I think with smokers it's complete bravado and untrue while being far from the time that they will see any ill effects from smoking, whereas with an elderly retiree they're a lot closer to the event in question and a little more serious.

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

Perhaps $250 month. Recently competitively quoted $3,000 annual Health Policy from Thai Reputable Broker / Company providing mid- level benefits like 3 million baht cover per case, with no deducts. 

I’m 65 and completely healthy. Once that cover runs out you would return to home country for Free National Health (if available).

Policies from non-Thai western Insurers are typically double, giving the proposed $500 monthly or that amount would get you around 8 million baht cover per case with Thai Insurer, with no deducts. 

 

Living in Paradise should NOT mean living stupidly / recklessly.

But that is the majority norm that I see from my very limited expat contacts.

They are almost to a man grossly overweight, heavy drinkers / smokers with bad diet, no exercise and no medical checks ( not even the basic blood/ urine 3k baht test) being afraid of what they will find...... Bizarrely, some very few do have heavy medical insurance with full annual check ups, as if that in itself will continue to save them from themselves.

 

 

 

[ChaiyaTH]

8 minutes ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

Perhaps $250 month. Recently competitively quoted $3,000 annual Health Policy from Thai Reputable Broker / Company providing mid- level benefits like 3 million baht cover per case, with no deducts. 

 

3 million baht coverage is like nothing and for 250 dollars a month very very expensive too. If you would get something serious you end up in the better hospitals most times for treatment, 3M wouldn't even get you start to finish. 250K USD coverage would be minimum reasonable.

 

Anyway, it seems many of the people with this problem also did not prepare there general cashflow that well, neither have a very proper retirement with exceptions left and right. 

My insurance keeps you in for a lifetime if you pay a bit more from scratch at least, now I am only paying around 80 dollars a month and get covered for 500K euro. Lucky to not be old yet I guess. I'd not wanna be old with less than 300-500K USD in the first place though, better to stay home then.

 

And in terms of what the OP says, Thailand isn't cheap at all unless it are shorter stays, as an expat I am spending as much here as I do in Europe in a small family setup. The only benefit is I could change to 'thai survival mode' and then live quite a while, as long it lasts basically, on much less than in Europe.

I guess the latter is what many people seem to do here, and then eventually a big bump in the road ends it. Might also explain why most don't make it after 3-4 years in Thailand average.

Edited June 17, 2021 by ChaiyaTH

[WhiteBuffaloATM]

my post said “competitive” quote,  age 65, starting from scratch etc. (had five other quotes).

 so “very very expensive” it clearly is not. for the circumstances it is “best market value” here.

gets complicated because many guys have good medical policies linked to their pensions

(having paid an average 50% Income / Other Govt. Tax for 45 years; not for me......)

 

your figures are only possible perhaps from massive employer (US govt. perhaps) subsidy or starting policy around early 20’s ( or both) so well done but you’ve likely already paid out what $50k in subsidized premiums plus what $1 mill. + in Govt. Taxes ?  not comparable to my relevant thai-based commercial non -subsidized example at all.

 

you also ignore the Free Health Care which we enjoy in Western Europe but which you clearly do not have or need, in USA I guess.......

 

and having $500k savings + great pension, will not save anyone for long if they have grossly abused their body and (statistically) start contracting cancers / dementia / heart & lung diseases......

maintaining strong preventative healthy conditioning is all important, esp. towards the end of life.......

otherwise start planning to hand over all your hard earned wealth to multiple ungrateful relatives......

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

Interesting post and I also have had several friends report in with severe physical ailments in the last few months... 

 

Of course every person's ailments and finances are different... and health insurance [or not] is just one piece of the puzzle. What would be the difference in quality of life in the home country on the same amt of funds? I can see how a younger retiree might not want to exchange a Thai lifestyle for a cold, clammy, lonely existence in the West... some are enjoying life more than they ever had... 

 

unfortunately, we cannot know our future... 

[starky]

Who ever said it was cheap to live in Thailand? 

[Kinnock]

My health insurance is my biggest single cost living in Thailand- so yes, it's a major consideration when planning to live here.

 

My property, car and motorcycle are paid for, I have no debt, and the Mrs is very cost effective - so insurance is easily my biggest cost.

 

With MTL I have a fixed annual cost until I'm 90, but don't plan on living that long.

 

Though I think I'm healthier living than in my home country, where the sun only shines for 3 days a year.

[canthai55]

7 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

They are almost to a man grossly overweight, heavy drinkers / smokers with bad diet, no exercise and no medical checks

No pity for those who during the course of their lives cared so little for their own health to get themselves in such a state.

And now cry because they can't afford medical insurance ?

Sit down and total up what they spent on booze and cigs for the past 20 years and they could have gold plated world class health insurance with hot and cold running nurses.

Dance to the Music - Pay the Piper

[BritManToo]

8 hours ago, josthomz said:

When they are healthy, many retires couldn't care less about insurance because they don't picture themselves being sick, and if they do they bravely think "Oh, well that's it then. I've lived a great life." 

 

But when disease comes their mindset changes drastically. 

My mindset hasn't changed.

I'm still OK with death.

 

The only insurance I ever have is, compulsory government.

Edited June 17, 2021 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

4 hours ago, starky said:

Who ever said it was cheap to live in Thailand? 

Me ............ house here 2Mbht, house in UK 20Mbht.

[BritManToo]

6 hours ago, WhiteBuffaloATM said:

and having $500k savings + great pension, will not save anyone for long if they have grossly abused their body and (statistically) start contracting cancers / dementia / heart & lung diseases......

maintaining strong preventative healthy conditioning is all important, esp. towards the end of life.......

otherwise start planning to hand over all your hard earned wealth to multiple ungrateful relatives......

 

Not noticed much difference between the 'gross abusers' and the 'health nuts'.

Same chance of cancer, dementia, lung disease.

Maybe slightly reduced chance of heart disease.

Living a healthy lifestyle doesn't make you live any longer, although it may seem a lot longer.

[Excel]

24 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not noticed much difference between the 'gross abusers' and the 'health nuts'.

Same chance of cancer, dementia, lung disease.

Maybe slightly reduced chance of heart disease.

Living a healthy lifestyle doesn't make you live any longer, although it may seem a lot longer.

And the those that hoard and portray themselves as living a healthy lifestyle, you know the ones, those that live in the areas of high pollution like Bangkok and try to convince others they are living a healthy lifestyle will die just the same knowing that it  was all for nothing.  Enjoy yourselves, do what you want and can afford, better to die happy then miserable

Edited June 18, 2021 by Excel

[OneMoreFarang]

It's time again for this wonderful part of Steven Leathers character Jack Nightingale:

 

Nightingale blew smoke up at the sky. ‘Everybody dies,’ he said. ‘Life is a zero sum game. The best you can do is to enjoy yourself as you go along.’
‘But smoking shortens your life.’
‘Maybe. But it only takes the years from the end of your life. Not the beginning or the middle.’
Jenny looked at him, confused. ‘I have absolutely no idea what you mean.’
Nightingale took another drag on his cigarette before continuing. ‘Say I live until I’m seventy-five without smoking. And say I die at seventy if I do smoke. I lose five years. But really, Jenny, what am I going to be doing during those five years? Sitting in a bedsit somewhere watching the football, assuming I’ve enough of a pension to be able to afford Sky Sport?’

[4MyEgo]

9 hours ago, swissie said:

Conclusion: Add US$ 500 to your monthly expenses (health-insurance). An then I will be willing to discuss the matter of "cheap-living" in Thailand once more. Equipped with my pocket calculator. Wanting to calculate "the true cost of "paradise".

 

Hit the nail on the head, however let's not forget the real old ones who can no longer get insurance as their (respectfully) use by date as far as insurers go, are to high of a risk, simply put discrimination based on age, let alone if they could in fact afford the insurance premium.

 

I personally believe anyone who has no insurance here in Thailand has rocks in their heads, I have been to a couple of public hospitals around the country and personally, I would prefer to stay at and be treated at a private hospital.

 

Basically all of the expats I know have no insurance, one who did got ill and was hospitalised, 2 weeks and a whopping 1.6 million baht, all the others know him and eyebrows raised, then he was back in again for a week, different matter, another 1 million baht as surgery was required this time, as mentioned a totally different matter, so 2.6 million baht and he's alive and nothing out of pocket, doubt most would have survived because that would mean they would be treated elsewhere.

 

I expect a lot of flack regarding my comments, but before you bite, he went to a public first as it was close and they gave him 2 paracetamol and said to rest, well that nearly killed him, so he took the drive to the private and they admitted him on the spot and got working on him straight away, ICU for a week, a further week under observation, two days after release, back in with a different matter.

 

As much as I don't like forking out 175,000 baht a year for my and my families private health cover, I believe 500 baht a day is well worth it in the event of one of us being hospitalised.

[clivebaxter]

5 hours ago, starky said:

Who ever said it was cheap to live in Thailand? 

The same sorts who claim it's 'paradise' ????

[bojo]

1 minute ago, clivebaxter said:

The same sorts who claim it's 'paradise' ????

Don't know if that's said tongue in cheek, the 'paradise' bit.................... but it's gotta be best out of the bunch right?!

[1FinickyOne]

38 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Not noticed much difference between the 'gross abusers' and the 'health nuts'.

 

good point, generally speaking - - 

 

The health nuts are the ones with tight, serious, stressed out [angry looking?] faces... more of them look a bit sickly [in spite of conditioning], and tend to be of ill humor and not relaxed... even when they are not straining from exercise that leaves them breathless and sweaty... 

 

Fattys tend to be a bit more jolly and relaxed... 

 

neither group makes it out alive though the health nuts are often more deluded about life span and quality of life... as well as what might make them attractive... 

[BritManToo]

37 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Basically all of the expats I know have no insurance, one who did got ill and was hospitalised, 2 weeks and a whopping 1.6 million baht, all the others know him and eyebrows raised, then he was back in again for a week, different matter, another 1 million baht as surgery was required this time, as mentioned a totally different matter, so 2.6 million baht and he's alive and nothing out of pocket, doubt most would have survived because that would mean they would be treated elsewhere.

You'd need to say what was wrong with him before I could comment.

If he has cancer why bother with treatment?

If it was an ingrowing toe nail, he's been overcharged.

 

It's unwise to give hospitals a blank check, because they'll cut you and start pulling parts out, even if it isn't really needed or cost effective.

Edited June 18, 2021 by BritManToo

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

You'd need to say what was wrong with him before I could comment.

If he has cancer why bother with treatment?

If it was an ingrowing toe nail, he's been overcharged.

 

It's unwise to give hospitals a blank check, because they'll cut you and start pulling parts out, even if it isn't really needed or cost effective.

 

First time bad case of Pneumonia, mistaken at the public hospital as a flu.

 

Second time breathing problems worsened, stent required due to narrowing of an artery.

 

1.6 + 1. =2.6 mil

 

Age 60 which is still young in my opinion.

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[OneMoreFarang]

45 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

Age 60 which is still young in my opinion.

If anybody can't afford a health insurance with 60 then they do something wrong.

[4MyEgo]

17 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

If anybody can't afford a health insurance with 60 then they do something wrong.

 

I think a lot of people also misunderstand that just having health insurance is NOT enough.

 

There is truth in the old saying, " if you don't use it, you will lose it", meaning we need to constantly keep moving, whether it's exercise or just moving, as we need to keep the heart rate up as our body's needs to burn the fat we are storing, i.e. to turn it into energy, how else do we think plaque ends up from fatty deposits in out arteries, therefore narrowing the blood flow with heart attacks being at the top of the list of killers.

 

I am talking from experience, so having private cover insurance is one thing, but if I didn't eat right, exercise, sleep right and did what most of the guys I know did, i.e. eat fatty foods, pie's, bacon, burgers, pizzas, rice, flour, breads, sweets, drink loads of beer and sit most of the day, then I would be dead as will they over time, so those doing the above have are heading down that path, solly, as they say here in the LOS.

 

So my take is, get up, move it, or lose it, earlier than later. I was 47 when I had a blood clot in one of my arteries, now 61 and never felt better from the change, lesson learnt.

[Saltire]

Yes my health is my only worry in Thailand.

 

I have a UK policy for 6 years now with £325k (Baht 14 million) cover, premium £1200PA. I could take one big hit self insured if they refuse a claim, and I got the Roojai Covid-only insurance, but I still think I am at risk.

 

My UK policy was due up to a 50% hike as I turned 66 in Feb, so I emailed them for a quote to see if I should be looking around. To my absolute surprise they wrote to me offering the same price for one more year (no increase) due to my loyalty and no claim situation, even changing their mind about cover for my pre-existing conditions and Covid.

 

So if my UK policy doesn't pay, Roojai cover proves useless and I run out of savings there's always a Go Fund Me as a last resort.

 

 

[Excel]

1 minute ago, Saltire said:

Yes my health is my only worry in Thailand.

 

I have a UK policy for 6 years now with £325k (Baht 14 million) cover, premium £1200PA. I could take one big hit self insured if they refuse a claim, and I got the Roojai Covid-only insurance, but I still think I am at risk.

 

My UK policy was due up to a 50% hike as I turned 66 in Feb, so I emailed them for a quote to see if I should be looking around. To my absolute surprise they wrote to me offering the same price for one more year (no increase) due to my loyalty and no claim situation, even changing their mind about cover for my pre-existing conditions and Covid.

 

So if my UK policy doesn't pay, Roojai cover proves useless and I run out of savings there's always a Go Fund Me as a last resort.

 

 

Don't worry about your health, it will only make you ill

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

First time bad case of Pneumonia, mistaken at the public hospital as a flu.

Pneumonia is an odd one, usually reserved for those already dying of something else, old age, AIDs, etc.

[4MyEgo]

12 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Pneumonia is an odd one, usually reserved for those already dying of something else, old age, AIDs, etc.

I did mention he was 60, that isn't old, and lets not forget, 45,000 cases of death recorded in Thailand in 2018 from Influenza and Pneumonia.

 

I will say that's 123 deaths per day, and they are recording 20-30-40 cases a day from Covid, well what can I say, I got my jab on both, but not on the experimental vaccines as this jury is out.

Edited June 18, 2021 by 4MyEgo

[Kwasaki]

13 hours ago, swissie said:

Conclusion: Add US$ 500 to your monthly expenses (health-insurance). An then I will be willing to discuss the matter of "cheap-living" in Thailand once more. Equipped with my pocket calculator. Wanting to calculate "the true cost of "paradise".
Cheers.

Many cannot get health insurance because of age.

Stay healthy and take care of oneself is the only thing to do.

My 4 monthly check ups have been good for me and doc is happy.

[BritManToo]

26 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

I did mention he was 60, that isn't old, and lets not forget, 45,000 cases of death recorded in Thailand in 2018 from Influenza and Pneumonia.

Which makes Pneumonia odd ......... my pal had Pneumonia age 58, medically shipped back to the UK and promptly diagnosed as having AIDs. Yes, 45k deaths is probably includes a lot of AIDs victims.

 

Did they give your pal an HIV test?

It's only 250bht.

Edited June 18, 2021 by BritManToo