New inverter a/c daikin not very cool...I'm baffled

[Dan O]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They are coming on the 29th. Couldn't get anything earlier. (which is in  itself worrisome...don't like to think that if they conk out completely during a heat wave it'll take 5 days to get them servcied).

 

I am increasingly thinking of trying to return these and get a different brand, so all suggestions are welcome.

I just read the installation manual for your models and must say unless there is another manual somewhere, which there should be, the one online is not very thorough.

 

So I went to another model's service manual for Daikan and read thru it.  In that manual it has a small comment about a stop gas service valve where you can shut the refrigerant gas line\ flow thru the unit for transport and reinstallation. It's just an open or close valve located at the gas service port. If closed the refrigerant gas does not flow thru the system and will not cool as a result.

 

I am not sure if your models have that valve but if they do it may come from the factory closed and need to be opened as part of the install. That would explain the lack of cooling on both units 

 

 Just a thought

[rodknock]

central air is located in Thailand.

they build them here.

i had an issue with my air/con when it was installed.

called central air and they sent out a crew and changed the computer board.

very pleased with the communication and service.

you can buy the them from lazada and they are a good price.

 

hope you get your air/con issues resolved.

it really tough in the heat of the summer and they do not work properly.

wish i could help you more.

 

[sometimewoodworker]

16 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Wouldn't the pressure gauges tell you if there is a leak ? Anytime I have had a system installed or repaired they run the system with the gauges attached and monitor it for 15 mins. 

Isn't that the whole idea of the gauges, to check the correct amount of gas, not loosing gas etc

The gauges are mostly temperature gauges and are checking differentials.
 

There is no way you would see a loss of refrigerant  from a pressure gauge unless the loss is so big you wouldn’t need anything but ears to locate it. 

 

System pressure is virtually independent of refrigerant volume. 

[lemonjelly]

How recently did you replace them? Have they always been like this? They might just need cleaning (blower, filter  and cooling fins) if you’ve had them for a few months, especially with the air pollution in the region. Involves “Chang” partially disassembling indoor unit and hosing it clean. Just had mine done, it’s like new again.

[rodknock]

FYI, lazada has a benetech infared thermometer for 369baht and 22baht postage.

[zlodnick]

Sheryl,. Have you checked your power supply? I had a similar problem with aNew unit. Mitsubishi man came out. First thing he did was check the power. Voltage too low, it doesn't work well or at all. Need at least 198v.  My 9k unit will work with power a little low. The 18k unit needs at least 198v. 

[scorecard]

On 6/23/2021 at 9:27 PM, scubascuba3 said:

Might be worth getting one of those AC service companies to come out and give their advice, obviously have no skin in the game so should be honest, they charge 500+ baht where I live

 

Good idea but perhaps try to find some customer reviews first.

 

As in many countries there are plenty of companies / operators who have no real knowledge or experience in the field they claim to be experts in. 

 

 

[rwill]

I have a couple of Mitsu Invertor A/Cs and they cool the room down just fine.  I don't notice a delay on them.

 

Other than possibly a defective unit my question would still be did they properly put the lines under a vacuum to remove the atmosphere in them.

 

When I did HVAC work in the US we would put a vacuum on the system and come back the next day to make sure it was still holding a vacuum(means no leaks) before opening the valve to release the refrigerant on new systems.  I have never seen them do that here.  But the A/C guy I use does put them under a vacuum for about an hour or so.  

[Mickeymaus]

17 hours ago, Sheryl said:

They are coming on the 29th. Couldn't get anything earlier. (which is in  itself worrisome...don't like to think that if they conk out completely during a heat wave it'll take 5 days to get them servcied).

 

I am increasingly thinking of trying to return these and get a different brand, so all suggestions are welcome.

Please let us know the result. And hopefully the outside unit has enough space around it. I have seen here many Installations where it hardly can suck in our blow out air. 

[ICELANDMAN]

On 6/23/2021 at 10:07 PM, Andrew Dwyer said:

Noticed my air con seemingly struggling to cool the bedroom a few days ago, temperature lowered made no difference and the air flow seemed weak, suspecting it just needed cleaning called our regular guy.

He took the cover off the inside unit and straight away spotted the problem, using dish soap he highlighted a pinhole leak ( an oily substance inside the unit alerted him to the exact spot ).

A quick bit of welding and 1800 baht later, good as new , for now anyway ????.

 

Your “ good discount “ unit could have been a returned unit with a problem,  boxed and sold cheaper , maybe has a leak.

 

Haier , 4 years old, otherwise has been very good and can get icy cold if necessary although we usually run at 27c  nighttime.

Our fixit guy said he has fixed plenty of this problem but first time on a Haier , for what it’s worth .

 

I bought a Haier two years ago and after 8 months it no longer worked properly, no technical assistance only the free spare parts through the technician who had called, bought a new TCI air conditioner and it has been working perfectly for a year.

 

[ICELANDMAN]

On 6/23/2021 at 9:56 PM, Sheryl said:

Unfortunately the only thermometers on hand are the human type and they don't go below 35C.

 

If I had to guess I would say they cool things down to about 25-28C (on maximum setting i.e. set for 16C). Definitley never below 25C, no matter how low set or on for how long, and maybe not below 26-27. In the living room, never cool enough to be able to exercise comfortably; in the bedroom never cool enough to use the comforter spread. but cool enough to sleep with only a sheet on (that is with added help from a fan directly on me).

 

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/wall-i2023428487-s6532518123.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.18.23185d3d5eoMrM&search=1

[crazykopite]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:42 PM, Crossy said:

Hmmm, are you sure you have the correct mode set so it's actually cooling at full power? Maybe get the installer back to "teach" you how it works.

 

You also have chosen the hottest time of year to swap, when everybody's A/C is struggling to keep us cool which cannot be helping.

 

Our Hitachi inverter in the lounge seems to have a very "soft" startup (good for the genset) and takes several minutes to actually get going, the conventional Hitachi units in the spare bedrooms blast out arctic level air immediately on startup.

 

Have to agree with you get the installer back immediately did he gas the new units up ????? I have Daikin inverter units best air con units I’ve ever had and I’ve lived in some very hot countries if you look at your remote control at the top you have the off button opposite you should have cool and dry button I recommend you press the dry button this removes all the humidity in the room making it more comfortable mine are set at 23 I also have it set in eco and quiet mode they are also self cleaning can I suggest that you go onto the website or read the instructions something I failed to do in the first 3 months because I thought I kne everything about air con units how wrong I was you should also see a huge reduction in your PEA bil 

[bankruatsteve]

@Sherylsays she has Daikin technicians coming on the 29th and hopefully that will sort out the issues.  Let's wait for Sheryl to report back.  No further need of suggestions at this point.

[Yellowtail]

41 minutes ago, crazykopite said:

Have to agree with you get the installer back immediately did he gas the new units up ????? I have Daikin inverter units best air con units I’ve ever had and I’ve lived in some very hot countries if you look at your remote control at the top you have the off button opposite you should have cool and dry button I recommend you press the dry button this removes all the humidity in the room making it more comfortable mine are set at 23 I also have it set in eco and quiet mode they are also self cleaning can I suggest that you go onto the website or read the instructions something I failed to do in the first 3 months because I thought I kne everything about air con units how wrong I was you should also see a huge reduction in your PEA bil 

 

If your old unit and new unit are both sized correctly the cost savings will not be significant.

 

If both units are undersized they will cost about the same to run.

 

If they are both oversized it will be cheaper and better to run the inverter. 

[natway09]

Grab the book (it will be in Thai) & your lady & factory reset Buy a cheap thermometer 

Now set on auto cool & do not let anyone play with the buttons.Check the compressor outside is cutting in 

Give it 20 minutes.Try first!!

[bankruatsteve]

Facts from numerous tests and studies:

 

An old style AC will use more energy than same sized "inverter" when running max or not.

 

It is difficult to oversize an "inverter" since it will only use energy as needed.  IE:  A 24k BTU "inverter" could run normally at 10k BTU output.

[Dazinoz]

On 6/23/2021 at 8:19 PM, Dan O said:

I don't go on Thaivisa often so I never saw her post or I would have commented on the pros and cons    not sure why you say it's suspicious    inverters are designed for primarily for energy efficiency and the impact is on the cooling operation 

Most people have a misconception of how inverters work. An inverter or non inverter has a compressor and "radiators" coils at which the AC is rated. A 9000BTU AC is the rating of the Compressor. Inverter is the method of control of the compressor. When first turned on the inverter control starts the compressor at a slow speed then ramps up. This is good for power surge on starting as compared with a not inverter type. A non inverter type will go to full compressor speed (and thus rating) and stay there until the thermostat cuts it out. A non inverter can ramp the compressor above normal rating by speeding the compressor above normal rated speed for a short time. I have seen inverter claims to go to 125% normal rating. So in this condition should help to cool down faster. The main saving of inverter type AC is  that it varies speed to maintain a relatively constant temp in the room with out the compressor cutting out with a current surge on start up.

 

The electronics in an inverter type, of which there is a lot, is susceptible to heat as any electronics is. The electronics is "smart" enough to de-rate itself if the electronics gets too hot and what I recommend to people to shade the outdoor unit from direct sun but allow good air flow.

 

I know not much of help to the OP but so doesn't mis information help.

[Dazinoz]

15 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

It is difficult to oversize an "inverter" since it will only use energy as needed.  IE:  A 24k BTU "inverter" could run normally at 10k BTU output.

Its actually better to oversize an inverter so it can do its intended job. If undersized it runs continuously and doesn't save a lot of power.

[bankruatsteve]

5 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Its actually better to oversize an inverter so it can do its intended job. If undersized it runs continuously and doesn't save a lot of power.

There is no "sizing" standard and whatever de facto standard there is will favor larger units.  Inverters run continuously period.  In this weather, my 11k BTU inverter running at max uses 9% less energy than the 9k BTU it replaced.

 

[scubascuba3]

34 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Facts from numerous tests and studies:

 

An old style AC will use more energy than same sized "inverter" when running max or not.

 

It is difficult to oversize an "inverter" since it will only use energy as needed.  IE:  A 24k BTU "inverter" could run normally at 10k BTU output.

I thought you were going to refrain from posting until the service engineer had been on Monday?

[Dazinoz]

6 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

There is no "sizing" standard and whatever de facto standard there is will favor larger units.  Inverters run continuously period.  In this weather, my 11k BTU inverter running at max uses 9% less energy than the 9k BTU it replaced.

 

Maybe in thailand there is no standard. I have an air-conditioning sizing calculator taking into account many factors and was written by a refrigeration engineer for Australian cities. 

[Stevemercer]

23 hours ago, Dan O said:

Typically if the refrigerant is low the unit will ice up. If it's overcharged the unit won't cool as the refrigerant can't convert the liquid refrigerant to a gas and then back again which is how it cools. I would suspect that's the case unless there's a leak in the refrig lines or dirt int the lines.  It's just really odd that 2 units are acting the same way

 

Bingo! My bet is that the installers 'double' charged the units (maybe they didn't realise they were already charged) or didn't properly vent the air in the pipes before they released the gas from the main unit (this would have the same effect).

 

As other posters have suggested, it is unlikely that two different models would show the same systematic fault - but the install procedure is common to both.

 

A third possibility is that the units are working as intended, but are not producing the instantaneous icy blast that one is used too. The visiting technician should be able to confirm this one way or the other.

 

An inverter working in passive mode is like driving an electric car in 'super - economy' mode. You will get there eventually, but slowly and economically. A older style air conditioner might be compared to driving in sport or race mode. You will arrive at your destination much quicker, but at the cost of efficiency and economy.

Edited June 25, 2021 by Stevemercer

[RocketDog]

On 6/23/2021 at 5:43 PM, dddave said:

That sounds like installer somehow released refrigerant or it wasn't properly charged in the first place.  You should be blowing cold air.

That's my guess as well. The air velocity is one thing, but the air temperature should definitely be cool pretty quickly. Something is amiss.

[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

I thought you were going to refrain from posting until the service engineer had been on Monday?

Refrain from posting new suggestions. ????

[RocketDog]

16 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The gauges are mostly temperature gauges and are checking differentials.
 

There is no way you would see a loss of refrigerant  from a pressure gauge unless the loss is so big you wouldn’t need anything but ears to locate it. 

 

System pressure is virtually independent of refrigerant volume. 

Thermometers measure temperature.

[tpkhk]

For what it is worth, I had 2 Daikin inverter, cassette types installed by a 3rd party vendor.  They cool well and almost right away from the start.  Hopefully, the techs can try and sort it out.

 

As an aside, I tried two 3rd party programmable remotes (not the Daikin Supplied ones) .... one of them could never engage the compressor... just fan air.  Doubt this is your issue.

[perconrad]

Perhaps what I will write seems unthinkingly, but anyway.

 

Did the "chang" use new pipes or did he use the old ones?

 

One time I had 2 LG AC's of the same size installed and the outdoor units was set side by side. The AC's did not cool well and i complained many times to HomePro where I bought them and the installer came but still not cooling well. Then I complained that now I want a professional to come and a LG technician came and found out that the installer had switched the pipes, so that the indoor and the outdoor units did not correspond. After switching the pipes the cooling on both AC's was very good.

[millymoopoo]

On 6/23/2021 at 6:33 PM, Sheryl said:

9000 BTU with as 12,500 BTU

And so it should be working better than the old one.!'

It's a split system, there would have been a fitter come out to install them.

Maybe he didn't put enough gas in them.?

There will be 2 copper pipes (as well as some wiring) coming out of the wall going to the compressor/condenser, also usually mounted on the wall.
Sometimes these pipes have a plastic channel covering, if you cannot see the pipes because of this covering try to remove it, they usually just clip on.
Turn the unit on max cool, then go outside and feel these pipes, one will be warm the other cool, even cold to the touch, if they are both warm there is not enough gas.!
 

[Dazinoz]

19 minutes ago, millymoopoo said:

Maybe he didn't put enough gas in them.?

They come precharged and don't need refrigerant unless piping run above a certain distance. That doesn't mean he didn't accidentally  release some refrigerant. 

 

I was taking to an electrician who had just installed an AC in Australia. All connected and tried to run but it did not. A couple checks everything seemed ok but still would not run. Decided to take main covers off to see if he could see the problem. Very obvious, no compressor. Yes it came from the factory with no compressor. Good QC. Its a wonder didn't feel the lightness of the outdoor unit.

[Yellowtail]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

There is no "sizing" standard and whatever de facto standard there is will favor larger units.  Inverters run continuously period.  In this weather, my 11k BTU inverter running at max uses 9% less energy than the 9k BTU it replaced.

 

 

Correct, there is no "sizing" standard, but there are standard ways of determining the heat-load in a room, it's done all the time in commercial applications. A bedroom with two people has a greater heat-load than a bedroom with one, and if you add a cat it goes up a little more. But now it gets tricky, because not only is that cat constantly moving their heat-load in and out of the room, then NEVER close the door!

 

Depending on the age, quality and condition of the old unit, there is a reasonable chance that a new conventional unit would render similar savings. 

 

To be clear, I am a big fan of inverters, but people replacing good quality systems that were sized correctly are generally delighted with how quiet the units are, but they are as often disappointed with the savings they get. One great thing about inverters (as I think you pointed out) it that they still perform well when oversized. My 36,000 BTU unit is rated from 10,200 to 37,500 BTU.