Thai netizens mostly endorse Thaksin’s vow to return

[scorecard]

45 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Thaksin was responsible for the killing of about 2500 people who were supposedly involved in drugs. Any evidence? No!

I am sure some bad drug dealers were killed at that time and I won't miss them. But I am also sure lots of inconvenient people were killed. 

Perhaps you should properly research your claims above, you're less than correct/accurate on several counts. Perhaps you should also speak with some farang who were living/working in Thailand at the time and watching this matter every day, I have little doubt many would disagree with your words. 

[robblok]

Just now, Bangkok Barry said:

He made his money in telecoms, not off the back of the people who voted for him. Quite unique in Thai politics, which is why he's still popular and the establishment hates him.

That is not true, he made laws so the country was cheated out of tax that could have helped the poor. He made sure his sale was tax free. He made sure a loan was made to an other country so they could buy his stuff. That cost the civilians money too. 

 

Is there any difference between stealing by not paying tax (he changed the law for it) and stealing by having the state give cheap loans so other countries could pay for his telecom stuff and skimming of projects like the junta is probably doing.

 

Both make sure that less money is available for the poor. I think both sides are crooks plain and simple. With the one difference being that the military staged a coup and Thaksin was voted in. But I don't know of any country in the world were a vote means that you can be corrupt and steal. So the end result is the same. A corrupt government.

[Bangkok Barry]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

Yes if Thaksin came back and there was a fair/ honest election he would be voted in and it would be by a massive amount of votes.

Sadly that will never happen, as the so called government now in power would never permit on honest open election to take place, just look at the last election, honest fair, what a farce.

A fair election cannot take place, as the present group spent years re-writing the constitution to ensure they would always have the majority vote, no matter how the people voted. Thailand most certainly isn't a democracy in the accepted sense of the word.

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, colinneil said:

Sorry mate but you are so wrong... Why did the military intervene, because that is exactly what they have done around every six years since end of the absolute monarchy in 1932.

Sad fact is no civilian government is safe here the army just have to be in control.

Now look at the abysmal state the country is in due to the present military government, fast going backwards into a third world country, sad so sad, heartbreaking for the Thai people.

Not quite accurate, on at least a couple of occasions the military intervened for very specific reasons, usually involving massive corruption/cronyism.

 

But I'm not suggesting ever that the military are clean and honest and never corrupt. 

[colinneil]

Just now, scorecard said:

Not quite accurate, on at least a couple of occasions the military intervened for very specific reasons, usually involving massive corruption/cronyism.

 

But I'm not suggesting ever that the military are clean and honest and never corrupt. 

Not quite accurate !!! So are you saying that the military have not had a coup approx every six years since 1932?

Because that is fact not fiction.

[rumak]

3 hours ago, Orinoco said:

No Hab,  people like that.

not alive or in jail......... anyway

[ThaiFelix]

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

I did't see him forking out some, little some, of his vast fortune to help any Thai people during this harsh economic times either by helping with food or god forbid try to buy some vaccines on the open market and spend some of the multi billions he made on the back of his people, re-elect him? for what benefits? so he can make MORE money?... he's no leader, he's an opportunist...

Put it down to the cost of doing business.....everything is seen as an investment.

[ChrisY1]

Thaksin wasn't good....but he was far superior than any government since his demise.

But IMO, he wouldn't reach the bottom of the stairway of a plane standing.

[connda]

^{Caveat: I've no dog in this fight.  I'm just providing Geo-political commentary based on historical analysis of America's adventurism and global "power projection" and America's role in the backing of alternative foreign "leadership" since the inception of the Republic to further the interests of the Republic.}

If Thaksin is backed by US interests, and if the US interests feel that Thaksin can provide in-roads to establishing "a significant counter-presence" to Chinese influence in SE Asia that can't be obtained with a less amenable Prayut government - then a Thaksin return may actually turn into a reality riding on the back of public discontent over the handling of the 'pandemic', anemic vaccine procurements which had the appearance of favoring only two vaccines held by local Thai stakeholders leading to massive shortages, favoritism in vaccine distributions, as well as the destruction of the economy for many lower and middle-class citizens and their small businesses.  "Color revolutions" may well morph into "Covid revolutions" (Delta revolution; Gamma revolution, etc) in countries where social volatility is growing in the wake of "new normal' restrictions paired with the shattering of economies and wage earning potential of all but the wealthy whose wealth has only multiplied since March 2020.  The uber-wealthy fly into Space as the most vulnerable wait for vaccines and scrape enough money together to eat.
If it continues much longer (and it looks as though it will become much more repressive in the short-term) all that will be needed is a match, and some outside influencers may well send boxes of propane lighters.  How about 1.4 million lighters which are very openly given to all but the average Thai citizens who are told to wear masks forever and to quit complaining.
Then the public will be reminded about who provided Thais with 30 THB healthcare.  Someone who is waiting in the wings to save the common folk once again. 

"Truths" actually don't matter as much as slick, fabricated appearances and perceptions as any student of Bernays can attest.

We live in interesting times.  Too bad imho.  I've rather live in boring times.

 

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

I don't h ave good words for the military, like I don't have good words for Thaksin. Was he held accountable for his policy that led to the deaths of innocents ? I don't think so, neither did the military for the deaths during the protests and coups. 

 

Would be nice to see them both accountable would it not. Or would you just want to see the military accountable ?

What would be nice would be allowing the people to decide if he was a suitable Prime Minister in an election.

 

Fair trial would be good. Trials held post coup under coup appointed PM Surayud seem dodgy. 

 

I believed 2 fact finding commissions on his war on drugs set up by the coup and Ahbisit governments found no incriminating evidence.

 

Come on mate, suggesting that we want to see the military held accountable is simply laughable. 

[scorecard]

9 minutes ago, colinneil said:

Not quite accurate !!! So are you saying that the military have not had a coup approx every six years since 1932?

Because that is fact not fiction.

That's not what I said, in fact I didn't mention anything at all about 'approx 6 years' or anything re time periods.

 

Suggest you read my post again, slowly and carefully.

Edited July 15, 2021 by scorecard

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And why did the military intervene? Because of the mess which Thaksin and his lackeys created. 

Pleeeeease tell me you're not so naive that you actually believe the army "intervened" because of altruism?!?!

[rumak]

31 minutes ago, huangnon said:

3 hours ago, rumak said:

and i have one word to add to that :   Statins 

I have another: Opioids.

Anti depressants :   More than 37 million Americans take antidepressants,

[Mr Meeseeks]

38 minutes ago, robblok said:

Defender of Thaksin... MAY have been killed.. ITs been proven that many innocents died from his policy. I guess its ok if innocent people die if Thaksin does it but when the military does it its wrong.

It is not at all proven.

 

The official report done at the time by Royal request says "few of the deaths were caused by Police" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Thaksin_Shinawatra#Anti-drug_policies

 

Of course the subsequent junta report conducted three years after the war on drugs and after the 2006 coup and removal of the elected administration paints a different picture. 

 

Were innocents killed? It is highly likely. Was it in the numbers claimed by the junta? No, that's just being silly. 

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Confidence in due process? 555 Why is Thaksin not in jail.

 

And at least in Thailand the democratic process is overrated. Masses of stupid people vote for the same corrupt people again and again. Is that the idea of democracy? Sure not!

So democratic processes like elections should only be respected when the outcome is to your liking? 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

What would be nice would be allowing the people to decide if he was a suitable Prime Minister in an election.

 

Fair trial would be good. Trials held post coup under coup appointed PM Surayud seem dodgy. 

 

I believed 2 fact finding commissions on his war on drugs set up by the coup and Ahbisit governments found no incriminating evidence.

 

Come on mate, suggesting that we want to see the military held accountable is simply laughable. 

No its not laughable its normal to want to see both accountable. That is if your not bias.

 

Yes I love to see a fair election, but Thaksin can't be running as he is a convicted criminal. So they will have to set up an other clone.

 

Anyway lets hope this government falls.

 

You avoided the direct questions completely not wanting to admit Thaksin his fault and then saying that is laughable to want to see the military accountable. Its not laughable its unrealistic just like holding Thaksin accountable is unrealistic. However im talking about wanting too. Not as if its possible. 

[Caldera]

I'm not exactly a fan of the man, but there's no doubt in my mind that Thailand would be a better place now if the army hadn't meddled in politics. None of the Shinawatra governments were as inept and out of touch with regular Thais as the current one.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

It is not at all proven.

 

The official report done at the time by Royal request says "few of the deaths were caused by Police" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premiership_of_Thaksin_Shinawatra#Anti-drug_policies

 

Of course the subsequent junta report conducted three years after the war on drugs and after the 2006 coup and removal of the elected administration paints a different picture. 

 

Were innocents killed? It is highly likely. Was it in the numbers claimed by the junta? No, that's just being silly. 

Your selective quoting mate you left part of my post out about you thumping your chest that it was sanctioned from above and that making it good while the coup was sanctioned from above too as if that makes it good.

 

You do know its against forum rules to misquote someone to suit your agenda.

 

You think it was less people killed ?

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs

 

 The committee's report - which has never been made public - said that of 2,819 people killed between February and April 2003, more than 1400 were unrelated to drug dealing or had no apparent reason for their killings. Human Rights Watch, ‘Thailand: Prosecute Anti-Drugs Police Identified in Abuses,' February 7, 2008 (online at

[Phoenix Rising]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Correct, they shouldn't be compared.

The rice scam was deliberate.

The handling of the vaccination was incompetence.

Really?? When the dust has settled and the current bunch of incompetent nitwits are but a bad dream do you really think we'll find that the whole vaccination procurement process was completed without brown envelopes changing hands?

If you really think that I have a couple of beautiful bridges in awkward locations to sell you.

[connda]

Tony Woodsome?  <laughs>

[Mr Meeseeks]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

No its not laughable its normal to want to see both accountable. That is if your not bias.

 

Yes I love to see a fair election, but Thaksin can't be running as he is a convicted criminal. So they will have to set up an other clone.

 

Anyway lets hope this government falls.

 

You avoided the direct questions completely not wanting to admit Thaksin his fault and then saying that is laughable to want to see the military accountable. Its not laughable its unrealistic just like holding Thaksin accountable is unrealistic. However im talking about wanting too. Not as if its possible. 

It's a shame Thaksin cannot just give himself amnesty for everything just as the junta leaders have done. By not being able to do so, at least shows some semblance of accountability. 

 

So no, the two are not the same. 

 

And then there's the small matter of who runs the courts and hands out selective judgements on who should be punished and for what. If you are able to dictate who is above the law and who should be punished then you have a distinct advantage. No need for cake boxes stuffed full of cash to sway judges decisions when you actually are in control and they do what you tell them. 

 

Using antiquated laws arbitrarily also helps, as we have seen with Thanatorn when he questioned the vaccine procurement process. 

 

Emergency decrees and other statutes allow you to make it up as you go along... how cool is that?

 

No, the two are definitely not the same animal, my friend. 

[ChipButty]

If I remember rightly Thaksin was not well like in the southern provinces, also

[Mr Meeseeks]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

Your selective quoting mate you left part of my post out about you thumping your chest that it was sanctioned from above and that making it good while the coup was sanctioned from above too as if that makes it good.

 

You do know its against forum rules to misquote someone to suit your agenda.

 

You think it was less people killed ?

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs

 

 The committee's report - which has never been made public - said that of 2,819 people killed between February and April 2003, more than 1400 were unrelated to drug dealing or had no apparent reason for their killings. Human Rights Watch, ‘Thailand: Prosecute Anti-Drugs Police Identified in Abuses,' February 7, 2008 (online at

A report from the junta that removed Thaksin three years after the war on drugs was concluded.

 

The Royally endorsed report conducted by the Police at the time has a completely different conclusion, unsurprisingly. 

[Phoenix Rising]

3 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I'm not exactly a fan of the man, but there's no doubt in my mind that Thailand would be a better place now if the army hadn't meddled in politics. 

Exactly! Until Thailand can get out of these endless cycles of coups/counter-coups the country has no chance developing into a proper democracy.

 

[djayz]

5 hours ago, ezzra said:

I did't see him forking out some, little some, of his vast fortune to help any Thai people during this harsh economic times either by helping with food or god forbid try to buy some vaccines on the open market and spend some of the multi billions he made on the back of his people, re-elect him? for what benefits? so he can make MORE money?... he's no leader, he's an opportunist...

Why should he, or anybody else for that matter, donate anything? The so-called leaders here saw to it that they were elected and it is their responsibility to take care of the people! 

[Eric Loh]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

No its not laughable its normal to want to see both accountable. That is if your not bias.

 

Yes I love to see a fair election, but Thaksin can't be running as he is a convicted criminal. So they will have to set up an other clone.

 

Anyway lets hope this government falls.

 

You avoided the direct questions completely not wanting to admit Thaksin his fault and then saying that is laughable to want to see the military accountable. Its not laughable its unrealistic just like holding Thaksin accountable is unrealistic. However im talking about wanting too. Not as if its possible. 

Thaksin has faults, convicted and fled for his life. The military has their faults, non convicted and will be around to stage another coup. That is accountability, Thai style.  

[rumak]

21 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Thailand most certainly isn't a democracy

sorry to take these words of yours out from the original sentence.    forgive me if i give a definition:

 

democracy: " a system of government by the whole population "       hahaha  i guess the last time that

occurred was in a long lost tribe of ten jungle people living somewhere in Borneo

 

The new definition might read something like this .  Democracy :  a system of government manipulated , bought into in one way or another,  backed by a strong military and large corporations and billionaires ....... that now possess all material wealth and media sources with which to control the 

naive and helpless populace. 

 

oh,  i'm tired.   why do i think too mutt ?    

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

A report from the junta that removed Thaksin three years after the war on drugs was concluded.

 

The Royally endorsed report conducted by the Police at the time has a completely different conclusion, unsurprisingly. 

I prefer the report from an independent organization that i quoted. It shows the amount that Thaksin is responsible for dwarves that of the junta. 

 

How many did the junta kill in the protest 200 max ?

 

Anyway I am not arguing the junta is fine they have to leave. Just arguing that Thaksin is as bad as them maybe slightly better. At least we would not have to see poor students going to jail for lawful protests. Point being is why replace something bad with something less bad. Is that really the best Thailand can come up with.

 

Best would be to let future forward run and annul those stupid verdicts against them.

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/03/12/thailands-war-drugs

400 were unrelated to drug dealing or had no apparent reason for their killings. Human Rights Watch, ‘Thailand

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Thaksin has faults, convicted and fled for his life. The military has their faults, non convicted and will be around to stage another coup. That is accountability, Thai style.  

Yea i know and i hate it from both sides.

[connda]

22 minutes ago, connda said:

The uber-wealthy fly into Space as the most vulnerable wait for vaccines and scrape enough money together to eat.

Funny.  I was referring to Branson and Bezos.
And then a few minutes later I read this!
<drum roll>

<cymbal crash>
<slide whistle, canned laughter>
However, given the economic destruction of the middle and lower classes, I doubt many are laughing.  This will go over like a lead balloon launched from a submarine.