AstraZeneca says Thailand only requested 3 million doses per month in initial agreement

[webfact]

 

By Cod Satrusayang

 

A leaked document from AstraZeneca to the Thai government reveals that the Thai Ministry of Public Health only requested 3 million doses per month in an agreement with the vaccine manufacturer last September.

 

In the document, first published by Isra News, the company noted that it has since doubled the amount of vaccines Thailand was due to receive.

 

“I hope you will be pleased that this is nearly twice the volume we discussed during our meeting on 7 September 20202, when your team estimated that Thailand’s healthcare system required approximately three million doses per month,” the document states.

 

Full story: https://www.thaienquirer.com/30034/astrazeneca-says-thailand-only-requested-3-million-doses-per-month-in-initial-agreement/

 

-- © Copyright Thai Enquirer 2021-07-19

 

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[Thaiwrath]

during our meeting on 7 September 20202, when your team estimated that Thailand’s healthcare system required approximately three million doses per month,” the document states.

 

Gross incompetence for a country with a population of 69 million !

[ukrules]

This means they only ever planned on vaccinating 18 million people with the AZ vaccine in the first year, either that or they planned on hijacking the rest of it from the beginning.

 

AZ aren't stupid, there will be a very solid plan in place which prevents them from doing so.

Edited July 18, 2021 by ukrules

[ezzra]

Predicting future is a job reserved for prophets and no country is prepare for the worse not even the super powers. so a shortsighted policy? yes, ordering 10's on millions of vaccinations on a guess, i'd too be hesitant...

[ukrules]

17 minutes ago, ezzra said:

Predicting future is a job reserved for prophets and no country is prepare for the worse not even the super powers. so a shortsighted policy? yes, ordering 10's on millions of vaccinations on a guess, i'd too be hesitant...

The vaccines were developed with massive backing from central governments to the tunes of tens of billions of pounds / dollars and euros, not all of them worked out as expected...

 

There was zero guarantee that any of them would work, in fact many said that because it hasn't been done before that it can't be done, yet they did it anyway.

 

Last year everyone thought this was the second coming of the plague, that they didn't order anywhere near enough is a little bit off...

 

Maybe they were simply waiting for better prices?

 

 

 

 

 

[sezze]

Since the document is from September 2020 , you got to give credit for the government . They can say what they want but they do not have the same resources as EU or US . September 2020 , not a single vaccine was approved , so any signing of a deal might end up throwing money down the drain . You can call it bad right now , when knowing what we know now , but at that time all was very unknown . You can blame the government for the things they did after the vaccines were approved , since then they could have ordered large amount of the ones who were available , and spreading as large as possible , so according to website of WHO :

 

"The Pfizer/BioNtech Comirnaty vaccine was listed for WHO Emergency Use Listing (EUL) on 31 December 2020. The SII/Covishield and AstraZeneca/AZD1222 vaccines (developed by AstraZeneca/Oxford and manufactured by the State Institute of India and SK Bio respectively) were given EUL on 16 February. The Janssen/Ad26.COV 2.S developed by Johnson & Johnson, was listed for EUL on 12 March 2021. The Moderna COVID-19 vaccine (mRNA 1273) was listed for EUL on 30 April 2021 and the Sinopharm COVID-19 vaccine was listed for EUL on 7 May 2021. The Sinopharm vaccine is produced by Beijing Bio-Institute of Biological Products Co Ltd, subsidiary of China National Biotec Group (CNBG). The Sinovac-CoronaVac was listed for EUL on 1 June 2021."

 

By the time speaking there were no variants of concern , but as the time listed by the WHO , they could have ordered them as the WHO approved , even the Chinese ones . We do not know what other variants might show up , so even the best right now , might not be working anymore by the time being . Ordering when approved gives you at least a good spread of risks .

I do blame the government for not doing that , since they say they want to open again , then there is only 1 way out of this , and that is vaccination , so ordering when approved is the fastest way . Anything ordered now , will not be in Thailand any time soon , there's many more waiting and ordered before .

[Fex Bluse]

25 minutes ago, sezze said:

Since the document is from September 2020 , you got to give credit for the government . They can say what they want but they do not have the same resources as EU or US . September 2020 , not a single vaccine was approved , so any signing of a deal might end up throwing money down the drain .

Disagree. The countries doing best now are mostly ones that placed bets and made investments in multiple candidates. It's just like insurance. 

 

Thailand placed a bet that it could essentially lie to the world and trick tourists into coming back by proclaiming "Thailand is Covid Free" all whilst not testing. Recall? 

 

As for resource, Thailand is NOT a poor country. Most of the people, however, are very poor. The government had plenty of resources to make investments in vaccine candidates which would have had them well up in the queue. 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Fex Bluse

[cyril sneer]

41 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

They were probably relying back then heavily on the Chinese PlaceboVac from Sinovac and Sinopharm. 

Not sure the word probably is needed here 

[sezze]

16 minutes ago, Fex Bluse said:

Disagree. The countries doing best now are mostly ones that placed bets and made investments in multiple candidates. It's just like insurance. 

 

Thailand placed a bet that it could essentially lie to the world and trick tourists into coming back by proclaiming "Thailand is Covid Free". Recall? 

 

As for resource, Thailand is NOT a poor country. Most of the people, however, are very poor. The government had plenty of resources to make investments in vaccine candidates which would have had them well up in the queue. 

I think if you look around across the world , then the countries who did made the gamble were European , USA , Middle Eastern . Non of the Asian countries did anything , even Australia and Japan , Singapore are nowhere in vaccinating their citizens . Best places to be right now are the highest vaccinated countries and non of that is in East Asia , Africa and S America .

[CANSIAM]

The Government back in April 2020 with no domestic covid cases and watching the entire world becoming more sick by the day,  thinking Sinovac is all we need and no to signing on with Covax - the start of a path to hardship and suffering..... 

[herfiehandbag]

One can debate the wisdom (or lack of it) in only ordering 3 million doses back in September 2020, but what this document does reveal is the consistent way in which this government has lied about vaccine procurement for the last six months!

[impulse]

If you want a more complete picture, you have to read both letters.  The one from AZ to Anutin and the response back from Anutin.

 

They're both marked "confidential" so I won't be providing a link on account of Thailand's computer crime laws.  But you can find them on Jonathan Head's Twitter, and other places.  Nor am I going to summarize or comment on either one. 

 

Just letting people know they're both worth a read.

 

[JamieM]

Oh no has someone been telling fibs about amounts ordered? 

[Artisi]

30 minutes ago, herfiehandbag said:

One can debate the wisdom (or lack of it) in only ordering 3 million doses back in September 2020, but what this document does reveal is the consistent way in which this government has lied about vaccine procurement for the last six months!

Correct, it's not about what was or wasn't ordered, it's the following double - talk and outright lies from the incompetents running the country. 

[gk10012001]

From what I read recently, the foreign manufacturers were demanding payment in advance.  Of course the Thai agencies don't like that because there is no guarantee that when they receive the vaccines, that they can then use them, sell, them, get money from people,  etc..

[JamieM]

22 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

the foreign manufacturers were demanding payment in advance.  Of course the Thai agencies don't like that

You say "foreign manufacturers" in your post, can you tell me what you mean by foreign? As far as I'm aware Thailand doesn't have a domestic vaccine. Can you explain to me which domestic vaccine (that doesn't require advanced payment) you are talking about? as no domestic vaccine exists. 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by JamieM

[gk10012001]

2 minutes ago, JamieM said:

You say foreign manufacturers can you tell me what you mean by foreign? As far as I'm aware Thailand doesn't have a domestic vaccine, can you explain what you mean? I'm genuinely confused by your statement.

 

 

Try a dictionary

[Hayduke]

1 hour ago, CANSIAM said:

thinking Sinovac is all we need and no to signing on with Covax

A decision based on Sinovac’s inflated price and the massive kickbacks offered by China. The problem is that this government has consistently treated the pandemic not as a public health crisis....but as an opportunity for the 'elite' to profit. Follow the money.

 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by Hayduke

[JamieM]

5 minutes ago, gk10012001 said:

Try a dictionary

I take it that you are unable to clarify the nonsensical post you just made then?

 

ALL the vaccines in use are foreign in Thailand.

 

Edited July 19, 2021 by JamieM

[mtls2005]

43 minutes ago, impulse said:

If you want a more complete picture, you have to read both letters. 

Published by isara news.

 

https://www.isranews.org/article/isranews/100580-ASTRAAA00.html

 

Yes, the letters portray anutin accurately, as an incompetent buffoon.

 

AZ also recommended that THL join COVAX. Oops, I Did It Again.

 

 

 

[Gottfrid]

I notice that many members are posting about what they planned and such things. My thoughts are that if they received 3 million doses per month since September 2020. That would make, starting from October: 30 million doses. After that they say they doubled the deliveries after a while. Let´s make it easy and say another 15 million doses. That would be 45 million doses only from AZ. After that they have been receiving from Moderna and Sinovac.
 

If you later read and take in what stands here, nothing will ever make sense again:

https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/thailand/

[jacko45k]

43 minutes ago, JamieM said:

as no domestic vaccine exists. 

 

There were 2 of them under clinical test talked of a few weeks ago. Now you mention it, not heard of them for a while. 

[JamieM]

41 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

There were 2 of them under clinical test talked of a few weeks ago. Now you mention it, not heard of them for a while. 

I stipulated in use.

[Caldera]

I'm not surprised. By September last year, the fools in the Thai government had long convinced themselves that they've beaten Covid-19 and patted their backs. Slogans like "Safe and trusted Thailand" were dreamed up, as well as bubble plans with other supposedly "safe" countries. Who needs vaccines in such an environment?

 

Oh the hubris.

 

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, JamieM said:

I stipulated in use.

No you didn't, you don't know what you said... here...

Quote

As far as I'm aware Thailand doesn't have a domestic vaccine. Can you explain to me which domestic vaccine (that doesn't require advanced payment) you are talking about? as no domestic vaccine exists. 

 

[JamieM]

1 minute ago, jacko45k said:

No you didn't, you don't know what you said... here...

 

Check again.

1 hour ago, JamieM said:

I take it that you are unable to clarify the nonsensical post you just made then?

 

ALL the vaccines in use are foreign in Thailand.

 

 

[Misty]

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

Predicting future is a job reserved for prophets and no country is prepare for the worse not even the super powers. so a shortsighted policy? yes, ordering 10's on millions of vaccinations on a guess, i'd too be hesitant...

Predicting the future is impossible, yes, unless you have a crystal ball.  However, predicting a range of potential outcomes is what competent planners do.  They then prepare for the more likely worst case scenarios. What's unfolding now was very much in the range of possibilities.  It's not close to being the absolute worst case scenario.

[Misty]

8 minutes ago, Caldera said:

I'm not surprised. By September last year, the fools in the Thai government had long convinced themselves that they've beaten Covid-19 and patted their backs. Slogans like "Safe and trusted Thailand" were dreamed up, as well as bubble plans with other supposedly "safe" countries. Who needs vaccines in such an environment?

 

Oh the hubris.

 

Sadly the international media didn't help. Lots of pats on the back from them too.  None wrote a "what could go wrong" story.

[mfd101]

First rule of bureaucracy: Make sure that, whatever it says, you will be comfortable with the written record when it leaks. (And everything does.)

[Khun Yogi]

1 hour ago, JamieM said:

You say "foreign manufacturers" in your post, can you tell me what you mean by foreign? As far as I'm aware Thailand doesn't have a domestic vaccine. Can you explain to me which domestic vaccine (that doesn't require advanced payment) you are talking about? as no domestic vaccine exists. 

 

 

If you want to do any "real" business in Thailand ie company to company, domestic or overseas, you have to pay for goods before they are shipped, so if they order vaccines l can see why companies would want payment before shipment.