Something new is happening...?

[NorthernRyland]

2 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

If you're under 60 probably 99.9% survival.

Did you see the article TV just posted? I quote:

 

"According to the DDC, as of 14 July there had been 2,840 deaths from COVID-19 in the present outbreak, 90%, or 2,556 of whom were patients with underlying diseases or other risk factors, such as obesity, pregnancy or senility."

 

So these were elderly people who are also co-morbid. 90% even. The question is, has even a single healthy person under the age of 50 died in Thailand? I know the media likes to dig up fringe cases but I'm starting to doubt it.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, tonray said:

Spend an hour on TikTok and you might change your mind..

The value of young people is in their ability to reproduce.

99% of the world have always been worthless drones without that ability.

 

[Mickeymaus]

Perhaps this makes them nervous - please note that this article is 3 days old. The number is from Friday. 

 

"Officials had laid out several factors that could cause the Sandbox to be reconsidered or even cancelled, chief among them was if weekly infections crossed over 90 people a week."

 

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/18-infections-today-in-phuket-creeps-closer-to-90-week-threshold

 

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 hours ago, kekalot said:

Israel had very high % of people vaccinated with Pfizer and I saw news a week or so ago that 40% of the new cases were people that were already vaccinated.

now it's "Vaccine was 39% effective at reducing infection risk and 91% effective at preventing severe illness, Health Ministry says"

 

The main point of the vaccines at present is to keep people out of the hospitals with serious illness and to keep them from dying of COVID. And in those regards, they're continuing to do a pretty good job, variants notwithstanding.

 

[onthedarkside]

25 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

Did you see the article TV just posted? I quote:

 

"According to the DDC, as of 14 July there had been 2,840 deaths from COVID-19 in the present outbreak, 90%, or 2,556 of whom were patients with underlying diseases or other risk factors, such as obesity, pregnancy or senility."

 

So these were elderly people who are also co-morbid. 90% even. The question is, has even a single healthy person under the age of 50 died in Thailand? I know the media likes to dig up fringe cases but I'm starting to doubt it.

 

The share of the population that has SOME kind of risk favors for COVID is HUGE.... Being overweight, high blood pressure, etc etc..... Trying to find people who DON'T have any of the various risk factors is the challenge.

 

And FWIW, Thailand has two COVID deaths of 14 year olds in the past week, but they both had other medical conditions as well.

 

In the daily COVID death reports from the MoPH, the youngest ages of the COVID deaths day to day (almost every day) tend to be in the mid to high 20s.... with a median age in the 60s.

 

 

[onthedarkside]

Two trolling posts have been removed, including one with an unsourced and unsubstantiated statistical claim.

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

i am also staying in phuket and all looks normal. food was brought to my room yesterday.

gym works as usual.

stop spreading fear.

 

I'll agree with you this time. Looks like the OP's hotel has decided to implement their own rules, so now suddenly he thinks something is up.

[digibum]

13 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

Nothing will change until:

One: the Thai government must understand, that there is NO such thing as a zero case strategy and

Two: they better start to buy 100 million doses of REAL vaccines that work

Ahhh, yes, in a perfect world.  
 

If you’ve spent more than 10 minutes in Thailand, it should be fairly obvious to you that Thailand is good at some things and worse than horrible at others.   
 

Actually, a zero case strategy plays to the Thai government’s strengths.  
 

They are good at flipping authoritarian levers but not so good at large scale logistics, streamlining processes, or adapting to a changing environment.  
 

You could go with a non-zero strategy but it would require constant adjustments based on what’s happening, rapid decision making, and a system set up for clear communication of changed plans/procedures.  
 

Does that sound even remotely like anything Thailand so good at?   
 

Or are they good at lockdowns which require only the army or the police to do patrols?   
 

Most of the major failures in Thailand’s response to Covid are a highlight of the government’s weak points.   
 

Vaccines?  They cut deals that benefitted certain parties financially and politically rather than making an all-out effort to do what is best.   
 

Vaccines 2?  The bureaucracy involved with ordering vaccines is almost Three Stooges level comedy.  Everything must be procured through the government which must issue approvals via a multi-step process involving multiple government agencies.  Nobody ever thought, “Hey, maybe we should make this process easier given the whole pandemic thing.”   
 

Communication?   All of Thailand’s ministries operate independently so there is often conflicting information because the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing.  Doctors and hospitals often are clueless because something announced by one part of the government hasn’t even been communicated to the frontline workers who are supposed to implement it.  
 

Communications 2?   Because if their inability to communicate even within the government, many of their directives to the public have needed ample time to disseminate which often means delays in implementation.  
 

During Covid, one would think they could use the national emergency broadcasting (or a non-tracking, info-only app) to announce major policy changes.  Like, get a carrier alert saying, “All buses leaving Bangkok have been cancelled.” Instead of announcing bus cancellations take effect next week and allowing thousands of infected people to flee across the country to infect others.   

Logistics? The vaccine rollout has been a confusing mess.  One day tens of thousands of people will be vaccinated at this facility tomorrow, and then not enough vaccines are delivered.  
 

If this were to be done effectively, just like how they announce infections, deaths, etc, they would have a transparent running total of the vaccine logistics chain.  
 

Instead of vague timelines like Q1 2022, you would have an ordered date, an expected ship date, expected arrival date, etc 

 

Hell, I get better updates from Lazada when I order stuff from China.  And Lazada sucks.  
 

Then everyone can see what’s been ordered, how many doses, when they’re arriving, etc.  

 

But regardless of who is in charge, Thailand has always had sort of a “don’t question us, you’ll know what we think you need to know” approach.  Leaders feel insulted to be asked basic questions about doing their job.  

 

Priorities?  Almost every other country seems to have grasped the concept that you start with the people most likely to die or get seriously ill and work your way out to the people with the least statistical chances of dying.  
 

Thailand has embraced the free for all approach where everyone signs up and a 25 year old in perfect health gets a shot before their 60 year old grandmother with diabetes.  
 

Further complicating matters is the Thai government’s reallocation of vaccines based on economic benefit rather than need.  
 

For instance, Phuket’s 70% vaccination goal so they could open up to largely a group of expats and returning Thais too cheap to or couldn’t be bothered to go through ASQ.  
 

Now they’re prioritizing relatively young and healthy immigrant workers over the elderly because these worker camps are creating negative headlines.  
 

Basically, there’s the right way to do something and then there’s realizing what tools you have available to you and picking a less optimal approach that plays to your tool chest.  
 

Anybody that thinks Thailand is going to suddenly get good at things it has historically been very poor at, is not living in the real world.  
 

Thailand’s zero case approach is based on what Thailand does best and acknowledges the reality of what they are not good at.  

[digibum]

57 minutes ago, NorthernRyland said:

So these were elderly people who are also co-morbid. 90% even. The question is, has even a single healthy person under the age of 50 died in Thailand? I know the media likes to dig up fringe cases but I'm starting to doubt it.

That’s the problem.  You ask if “even a single healthy person under the age of 50 died” and then immediately claim that these cases are fringe cases.  
 

Perhaps you misunderstand what “even a single” means.  
 

 

[Cake Monster]

13 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

But the current vaccines aren't guaranteed to be effective against Delta as when they were engineered Delta didn't exist, the virus has mutated since then.

And the problem is that the Virus will Mutate even ore over time.

This is why it has been imperative to administer as many Vaccines as possible on a Global scale.

A fact that some Governments have not heeded at all.

[digibum]

1 hour ago, NorthernRyland said:

Yes that's true of course but any society that prioritizes the old over the young is terminally ill and destined to fail. I would say this entire COVID fiasco has really exposed the Boomer generation as being some of the worst blood sucking cowards. In a different timeline you could imagine another generation being selfless and deciding to sacrifice for the good the next generation, but that's not what I saw coming from the Boomers. I hope to do better myself when I reach that age but the Millennials are pretty pathetic also so we'll see...

Well it’s a virus that disproportionately kills older people.  
 

There’s no need to pick sides.  
 

All it requires is some basic human compassion.  
 

Asking people to take basic precautions to limit the spread and to think about others doesn’t seem overly burdensome. 
 

And if it does, that is the society that is terminally ill.   
 

I seem to remember last year younger people actually having Covid parties, trying to spread the disease, or at least try to show how unafraid they were of it.   
 

Many of the outbreaks and super spreader events were the result of people exercising zero preventative measures because they thought they weren’t at risk.  

 

 

 

[EricTh]

4 hours ago, tonray said:

In this case your "Sometimes" equates to a miniscule probability percentage lower than being hit by a bus when walking around Bangkok.

Tell that to the families who died of vaccination.

 

 

[skippybangkok]

13 hours ago, EricTh said:

@skippybangkok

Seems something is happing with Phuket COVID situation ? 

 

Most probably Delta virus is spreading in Phuket.

 

The USA is reporting a rise in Covid cases.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/covid-cases-are-rising-again-in-all-50-states-across-us-as-delta-variant-tightens-its-grip.html

 

 

Seems to be globally the case

[hanuman2543]

14 hours ago, kekalot said:

exactly, and by the time they get 100 million doses of whichever current vaccine .. regardless of if it's effective for Delta, Delta will be something else.

 

chasing rainbows

 

 

What do you suggest they should do then?

[driver52]

14 minutes ago, hanuman2543 said:

What do you suggest they should do then?

How about letting folks get on with their lives and let businesses reopen so they can earn some money to pay for basic human necessities?

Maybe we won't all die after all....

[BE88]

We have interesting moments, vaccines have become the new religion, they are the ones that will save us from certain death. Those who are anti-vaccines are ignorant and therefore only say nonsense. Listen to the big media to make a culture. Really interesting period but for those who use the internet to become smarter evidently because they are ignorant of medicine and vaccines and tests they discover completely different things about the vaccine religion, really interesting period, we have never had before our eyes this possibility to see where it is, how deep is the knowledge of not knowing and knowing nothing but of teaching others what we have not understood anything.

Very interesting moments.

[digibum]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

We have interesting moments, vaccines have become the new religion, they are the ones that will save us from certain death. Those who are anti-vaccines are ignorant and therefore only say nonsense. Listen to the big media to make a culture. Really interesting period but for those who use the internet to become smarter evidently because they are ignorant of medicine and vaccines and tests they discover completely different things about the vaccine religion, really interesting period, we have never had before our eyes this possibility to see where it is, how deep is the knowledge of not knowing and knowing nothing but of teaching others what we have not understood anything.

Very interesting moments.

Actually, vaccines are no more a new religion than polio vaccine was a new religion.  
 

It’s something that seems to be effective at preventing or mitigating the most harmful aspects of a virus.  
 

To me, the new religion is believing one can become an expert on a topic from a few hours or weeks of going down YouTube rabbit holes.  

One of my favorite posts was on Reddit just over a year ago and it was some guy describing the Covid rabbit hole he had gone down.  
 

He and his best friend would get together every day and read up on statistics and dig up R0 values and read scientific papers on different types of viruses.  
 

And then one day he had an epiphany.   
 

He realized he and his friend had no idea what they were talking about.   
 

They were getting into heated debates with scientists and they were teaching themselves about these topics on the fly via Google searches trying to refute the experts.    
 

He barely passed basic algebra and he was debating statisticians about statistics.  
 

He eventually concluded that he needed to step away from the internet for awhile because it was consuming his life.   
 

To me, that’s the new religion.  If you can find a YouTube video or a website that confirms your beliefs it becomes dogma.  
 

And you keep searching for more confirmation and because the internet is an endless black hole, you’ll eventually find it.   
 

You will push away friends, family, and anyone that you care about who won’t accept your new religion.  
 

Next thing you know, you’re storming a capitol building or punching some Asian guy in the face or trying some ridiculous concoction of chemicals you think will make you immune.   
 

Thinking that a vaccine is effective or might cause unintended consequences isn’t religion.  That’s a byproduct of the religion.  

[clivebaxter]

6 minutes ago, digibum said:

Actually, vaccines are no more a new religion than polio vaccine was a new religion.  
 

It’s something that seems to be effective at preventing or mitigating the most harmful aspects of a virus.  
 

To me, the new religion is believing one can become an expert on a topic from a few hours or weeks of going down YouTube rabbit holes.  

One of my favorite posts was on Reddit just over a year ago and it was some guy describing the Covid rabbit hole he had gone down.  
 

He and his best friend would get together every day and read up on statistics and dig up R0 values and read scientific papers on different types of viruses.  
 

And then one day he had an epiphany.   
 

He realized he and his friend had no idea what they were talking about.   
 

They were getting into heated debates with scientists and they were teaching themselves about these topics on the fly via Google searches trying to refute the experts.    
 

He barely passed basic algebra and he was debating statisticians about statistics.  
 

He eventually concluded that he needed to step away from the internet for awhile because it was consuming his life.   
 

To me, that’s the new religion.  If you can find a YouTube video or a website that confirms your beliefs it becomes dogma.  
 

And you keep searching for more confirmation and because the internet is an endless black hole, you’ll eventually find it.   
 

You will push away friends, family, and anyone that you care about who won’t accept your new religion.  
 

Next thing you know, you’re storming a capitol building or punching some Asian guy in the face or trying some ridiculous concoction of chemicals you think will make you immune.   
 

Thinking that a vaccine is effective or might cause unintended consequences isn’t religion.  That’s a byproduct of the religion.  

Excellent post, if there is a new religion it's the church of You Tube and the Cathedral of Google, so many experts on something they really know nothing about.

[LongTimeLurker]

17 hours ago, kekalot said:

they would get 100M of Delta variant vaccine in like June next year and by that time they would have the Echo and Foxtrot variant..

epsilon and zeta

 

So then they would have to make boosters for everyone.

 

Everyone wins, people stay alive and the drug companies make loads of money!

[billythehat]

meanwhile...

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/asian-currencies-thailand-covid-lack-of-tourism-hit-thai-baht.html

 

[Joinaman]

14 hours ago, gargamon said:

That's looking at it all wrong. In the US, with around 50% fully vaccinated,  about 99% of those in the ICU are not fully vaccinated. The pandemic there is now a pandemic only for the unvaccinated. 

 

So go for the Darwin award, covid edition, and don't get vaccinated. If you're too stupid to get vaccinated, you likely shouldn't procreate anyway.

 You in the good ole USA ?

or in Thailand, where you have mor enhance of dying crossing the road

[BE88]

1 hour ago, digibum said:

Actually, vaccines are no more a new religion than polio vaccine was a new religion.  
 

It’s something that seems to be effective at preventing or mitigating the most harmful aspects of a virus.  
 

To me, the new religion is believing one can become an expert on a topic from a few hours or weeks of going down YouTube rabbit holes.  

One of my favorite posts was on Reddit just over a year ago and it was some guy describing the Covid rabbit hole he had gone down.  
 

He and his best friend would get together every day and read up on statistics and dig up R0 values and read scientific papers on different types of viruses.  
 

And then one day he had an epiphany.   
 

He realized he and his friend had no idea what they were talking about.   
 

They were getting into heated debates with scientists and they were teaching themselves about these topics on the fly via Google searches trying to refute the experts.    
 

He barely passed basic algebra and he was debating statisticians about statistics.  
 

He eventually concluded that he needed to step away from the internet for awhile because it was consuming his life.   
 

To me, that’s the new religion.  If you can find a YouTube video or a website that confirms your beliefs it becomes dogma.  
 

And you keep searching for more confirmation and because the internet is an endless black hole, you’ll eventually find it.   
 

You will push away friends, family, and anyone that you care about who won’t accept your new religion.  
 

Next thing you know, you’re storming a capitol building or punching some Asian guy in the face or trying some ridiculous concoction of chemicals you think will make you immune.   
 

Thinking that a vaccine is effective or might cause unintended consequences isn’t religion.  That’s a byproduct of the religion.  

I do not agree a religion exists because we cannot explain the unexplained as in this case of this epidemic and everyone is convinced to affirm the truth, in fact we have two religions that are opposed and the mechanism is the same.

 

Divided and Rule, an ancient Roman maxim from thousands of years ago, nothing has changed.

 

  Who benefit the crime here?

 

 

[Exploring Thailand]

5 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

The question is, has even a single healthy person under the age of 50 died in Thailand?

As a nurse, she had probably been double-vaccinated, too.

 

 

[sucit]

5 hours ago, NorthernRyland said:

Yes that's true of course but any society that prioritizes the old over the young is terminally ill and destined to fail. I would say this entire COVID fiasco has really exposed the Boomer generation as being some of the worst blood sucking cowards. In a different timeline you could imagine another generation being selfless and deciding to sacrifice for the good the next generation, but that's not what I saw coming from the Boomers. I hope to do better myself when I reach that age but the Millennials are pretty pathetic also so we'll see...

At this point it is not even much of a risk either, but yeah they’d have to sacrifice, but it would be beneficial to them so I hardly see it as a sacrifice. I agree with your sentiments. If you are holding the entire world up, take the bull by the horns and man up. That does not mean sacrifice, it just means isolate and keep yourself safe. Stop blaming others for your problems. 

[digibum]

1 hour ago, BE88 said:

I do not agree a religion exists because we cannot explain the unexplained as in this case of this epidemic and everyone is convinced to affirm the truth, in fact we have two religions that are opposed and the mechanism is the same.

 

Divided and Rule, an ancient Roman maxim from thousands of years ago, nothing has changed.

 

  Who benefit the crime here?

 

 

I know you’re trying to sound smart by being obtuse but you’re not making any real point.  
 

Anyone can say “follow the money” or “who benefit from the crime” and seem like they’re privy to some sort of knowledge.

 

But, I do applaud the effort to steal this tactic from QAnon.  

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

But the current vaccines aren't guaranteed to be effective against Delta as when they were engineered Delta didn't exist, the virus has mutated since then.

But Thailand hasn't evolved with it.

[hanuman2543]

4 hours ago, driver52 said:

How about letting folks get on with their lives and let businesses reopen so they can earn some money to pay for basic human necessities?

Maybe we won't all die after all....

Maybe we do

[Kalasin Jo]

7 hours ago, watthong said:

Agree. Sometimes you find a needle in a haystack.

Yes. A young lady in the UK. Her husband who handled himself well was interviewed on the BBC. She had had one dose of I think AZ. Tragic and traumatic for her family as the doctors fought to save her. But that's 1 death in around 30 million vaccinated there. Her husband was not anti vax but said people need to be informed and given a choice of vaccine.

 

I'm double vaccinated with Pfizer, the second jab in May. No consequences so far.

 

Meanwhile here in Europe and especially the UK the highly transmissible Delta variant is now on the rampage but governments some with less caution ( especially the UK) than others have been opening up and ramping up vaccination hoping enough have been vaccinated by the autumn to avoid huge numbers of hospitalisations.  We'll see how that turns out in a few more weeks...after the summer holidays.

[Rimmer]

Unattributed claim post  and reply removed

[TKDfella]

7 hours ago, digibum said:

I think they’re following the Greek alphabet, not military alphabet. ???? 

Yep, The Lambda variant has be identified in the US Houston Hospital but they say that it is less virulent than Delta so the latter remains priority.